The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 3380 Old 03-21-2010, 03:12 PM
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i noticed the Premier box was in stock at my local best buy (orlando, fl) but they had a price of $10,000 on the shelf tag. this was the regular premier not the premier XL. obviously the sticker price is a joke and i asked the sales person when they would be selling the boxes, she stated March 28th.

they had 3 premiers on the shelf but no premier XL's.

nice to see somebody at Best Buy has a sense of humor about the shelf pricing.
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post #122 of 3380 Old 03-21-2010, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post



How the heck to you have enough rooms to have that many TVs, to support 9 Tivos? Also, have enough time to watch the amount of TV a week that you'd have to record to justify that many? haha

Or can even find that much stuff worth recording that you would even need 14 tuners for?
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post #123 of 3380 Old 03-21-2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR23 View Post

i noticed the Premier box was in stock at my local best buy (orlando, fl) but they had a price of $10,000 on the shelf tag. this was the regurlar premier not the premier XL. obviously the sticker price is a joke and i asked the sales person when they would be selling the boxes, she stated March 28th.

they had 3 premiers on the shelf but no premier XL's.

nice to see somebody at Best Buy has a sense of humor about the shelf pricing.

I'd bet that for that price they included a Monster Pure Gold HDMI Cable.
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post #124 of 3380 Old 03-21-2010, 05:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by skylab View Post

You would think Tivo would go to bat for consumers on this issue.

Fox / News Corp.
NBC Universal
Touchstone / Disney




TiVo



(See the issue? )
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post #125 of 3380 Old 03-21-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Or can even find that much stuff worth recording that you would even need 14 tuners for?

that was going to be my second question.
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post #126 of 3380 Old 03-21-2010, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Fox / News Corp.
NBC Universal
Touchstone / Disney




TiVo



(See the issue? )

clever.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #127 of 3380 Old 03-24-2010, 05:08 PM
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I ordered my Premiere from Weaknees a few days ago and I just received an email that it shipped to me today. So they will no doubt be showing up everywhere very soon.
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post #128 of 3380 Old 03-24-2010, 10:34 PM
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Engadget has posted their in depth review of the Premiere.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/24/t...emiere-review/

The long and the short of it is, the new UI is slower than the old interface and the new UI is only in the 'high traffic' areas. Once you start drilling down to other functionality you switch resolutions and drop back to the old interface.

More specifically, the season pass interface hasn't been touched at all and the unit still can't do background conflict resolution.

Very disappointing to say the least. Hopefully they'll develop the platform into something a bit more substantial sooner rather than later.
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post #129 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Check out my draft review PDF. It's a draft, so expect errors.

I also compared TivoHD vs Premiere download performance in the following Youtube video:

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post #130 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Check out my draft review PDF. It's a draft, so expect errors.

I also compared TivoHD vs Premiere download performance in the following Youtube video:


WoW! That is a huge difference in transfer rates.

My six Premiere units should be a worthwhile upgrade from my nine S3 units.


And WOW!!. That is an excellent, thorough and very informative review.

THANKS!!!

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post #131 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 06:17 AM
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great review. Nice job.

I would be interested in hearing more about the UI performance, and anything you heard from Tivo on what we could expect in terms of improvements (what/when).
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post #132 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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The old SD UI is fast. The new HD UI is slow. TiVo says the current beta HD UI is not representative of the performance they will deliver to owners, so I am willing to cut them some slack on that for now. I just do not see how they can release it in the current form; they really need to cache what they can in memory and cache the rest on disk, imo.

I will post some high-definition videos of the UI this weekend.
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post #133 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Engadget has posted their in depth review of the Premiere.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/24/t...emiere-review/

It's almost inconceivable that after nearly 10 years the interface on some levels hasn't changed. If you're redesigning an interface, you do it from top to bottom. Add to that the fact that the new unit is actually slower than the first, and it makes you look elsewhere for your next DVR.
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post #134 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It's almost inconceivable that after nearly 10 years the interface on some levels hasn't changed. If you're redesigning an interface, you do it from top to bottom. Add to that the fact that the new unit is actually slower than the first, and it makes you look elsewhere for your next DVR.

read the review a few posts up. it is a much more through review. It explains things in detail and it certainly makes me excited about the Premiere box and what will be instore for it in the future. It makes me not want to look anywhere else for a DVR. Nothing so far can top what the tiVo can do and it's excellent interface.

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post #135 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 08:40 AM
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Except you don't buy a product for what it may possibly be able to do in the future, you buy it on what it can do right now.

If a year down the line the UI is quick and all menus are high resolution, they address all the major usability hiccups and they add in functionality that people were hoping for this release, THEN it may be worth a look.

The fact of the matter is the Premiere hasn't done anything that would make a fence sitter get off that fence. Things that kept people from buying an HD are simply not addressed by the Premiere, at least not yet.

The biggest thing though is the timeframe. They're unleashing a product on the market that's barely past beta, yet they've been working on it forever in consumer electronics terms. I agree with the closing of the engadget review, this was the product we wanted two years ago, now it's up to them to convince me it's a product that I'm going to look at two years from now and not have regrets.
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post #136 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Except you don't buy a product for what it may possibly be able to do in the future, you buy it on what it can do right now.

if no one bought anything at launch, all products would die and not get a chance for revision.
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post #137 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Except you don't buy a product for what it may possibly be able to do in the future, you buy it on what it can do right now.

If a year down the line the UI is quick and all menus are high resolution, they address all the major usability hiccups and they add in functionality that people were hoping for this release, THEN it may be worth a look.

The fact of the matter is the Premiere hasn't done anything that would make a fence sitter get off that fence. Things that kept people from buying an HD are simply not addressed by the Premiere, at least not yet.

The biggest thing though is the timeframe. They're unleashing a product on the market that's barely past beta, yet they've been working on it forever in consumer electronics terms. I agree with the closing of the engadget review, this was the product we wanted two years ago, now it's up to them to convince me it's a product that I'm going to look at two years from now and not have regrets.


I'm still going to get eight Premieres. It will be a good upgrade from my S3 units. I've never had any regrets about TiVo since I first started using them in 2001. And after using over twenty units these last nine years I have no reservations about ordering eight Premiere units(I will sell two of them after the contract runs out later this year and keep the six Lifetime Premieres)

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post #138 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Check out my draft review PDF. It's a draft, so expect errors.

I also compared TivoHD vs Premiere download performance in the following Youtube video:


FYI you watch all the same shows as me. LOL.

so are those both over wireless?
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post #139 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

read the review a few posts up. it is a much more through review. It explains things in detail and it certainly makes me excited about the Premiere box and what will be instore for it in the future. It makes me not want to look anywhere else for a DVR. Nothing so far can top what the tiVo can do and it's excellent interface.

Aaron, one might argue that the Moxi takes up the challenge quite nicely. It too isn't without flaws, but at least its interface is thoroughly new and all HD. It would also appear its speed is better too.
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post #140 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Aaron, one might argue that the Moxi takes up the challenge quite nicely. It too isn't without flaws, but at least its interface is thoroughly new and all HD. It would also appear its speed is better too.

But I can't transfer all my recordings to a PC for permanent storage like I currently can with TiVo. Plus TiVo doesn't force me to get Lifetime service and I don't want everything tied to only two or three hard drives like would happen if I went with Moxi.

And with the TiVo generous upgrade offer, it makes even more sense to go with TiVo anyway.

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post #141 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 10:09 AM
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Then Tivo is the right choice for you Aaron.
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post #142 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 10:10 AM
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amazing writeup bfdtv!

Do you do any tests between HD and Premiere? I'm curious if pushing from the Premiere will speed up any sending to the HD, or if the HD is bottlenecked in write speed somehow.
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post #143 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

if no one bought anything at launch, all products would die and not get a chance for revision.

One could argue though this this case, this isn't technically a launch. You have the same UI elements largely unchanged for nearly a decade with no expansion in functionality of the CORE purpose of the device, watching TV. That's the main issue. I'm not going to make $700ish investment on trust with a company that has operated in this fashion and many other people are feeling largely the same way.

It's great that they are offering good upgrade deals for current owners, but as someone standing on the outside looking in, about the only thing that's happened is the price has gone up $50 for largely the same functionality I could have bought last November.
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post #144 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 10:42 AM
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Tivo HD vs Tivo Premier

Key questions –

What are the key differences between the two that would make the upgrade worth it?

Will there be noticeable differences with transfer speeds if I use KMTTG?

Is there still the 1gb buffer issue with Streambaby?
Streaming performance – as tested with Streambaby – is virtually identical to transfer performance. The Premiere does not eliminate the 1.1GB buffer limit

Can I upgrade the 320gb hard drive in it like I did with my Tivo HD?
Internal drive upgrades are not possible with current tools. WinMFS identifies the drive as being from TiVo, but reports a compatibility error when any attempt is made to backup the software. Spike, the author of WinMFS, has shown interest in updating his upgrade tool for the Premiere, so it looks like it is only a matter of time before upgrades are again possible

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post #145 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cburbs View Post

Tivo HD vs Tivo Premier

Key questions -

What are the key differences between the two that would make the upgrade worth it?

Will there be noticeable differences with transfer speeds if I use KMTTG?

Is there still the 1gb buffer issue with Streambaby?

Can I upgrade the 320gb hard drive in it like I did with my Tivo HD?

read bfdtv's PDF. It addresses these questions.

short of it - huge increase in speed with kmttg. Like 10X as fast. Still 1.1GB buffer on streambaby. Wouldn't be surprised it you can upgrade the HD.
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post #146 of 3380 Old 03-25-2010, 11:02 AM
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reading it now and adding answers to my questions....thanks

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post #147 of 3380 Old 03-26-2010, 02:11 PM
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So apparently TiVo is initially only using one of the two cores on the new processor so it makes you wonder just how much of a speed increase they can squeeze out of it once they enable the second core. Hopefully they get it enabled and working right by the time it's in consumer's hands.
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post #148 of 3380 Old 03-26-2010, 02:27 PM
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So apparently TiVo is initially only using one of the two cores on the new processor so it makes you wonder just how much of a speed increase they can squeeze out of it once they enable the second core. Hopefully they get it enabled and working right by the time it's in consumer's hands.

considering it will be in their hands Sunday, that's doubtful. But they will, hopefully within a few months.
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post #149 of 3380 Old 03-26-2010, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Given the multi-room throughput, I can't imagine that only a single core is enabled.

I haven't talked to TiVo on the subject of "disabled cores," but I would guess the second core is enabled in Linux, but not enabled (cause of stability issues) in the Adobe Stagecraft environment. Their Flash interface runs on top of that environment.
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post #150 of 3380 Old 03-26-2010, 04:23 PM
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It would have been really nice if they could have released this using the new BCM7125. I know the turnaround time would have been a little too short, but that particular Broadcom SoC has native flash acceleration which would keep it off the main CPU so the UI would have been really smooth and there would have been a ton more CPU power to do background tasks.
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