DirecTV HD DVR - HR2*/ HR34 Master Topic: one thread for all - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2071 Old 04-29-2010, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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The thread for the DIRECTV HD DVRs HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23 is now 3 years old.

Since the HR24 is the first of a new design both internally and externally, it seems appropriate to begin a new thread discussing the next generation of HD DVRs from DIRECTV.

The HR24 is faster and designed to work with both SWM (Single Wire Multiswitch) and DECA (DIRECTV Ethernet Coaxial Adapter) technology as well as directly supporting DIRECTV's new MRV (Multi-Room Viewing) which is currently in beta testing and soon to be rolled out nationwide. It sports a new, sleeker physical appearance which is a significant departure from earlier HD DVRs.

The HR24 is now being installed in the 4 markets where MRV is available:
Denver, CO
Portland, OR
Columbia-Jefferson City, MO
Fresno-Visalia, CA
It will likely start shipping to new customers after MRV becomes available nationwide.

More detailed information on the HR24 can be found here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...highlight=hr23
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post #2 of 2071 Old 05-08-2010, 08:30 AM
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Hats off to DirecTV for their continual hardware, software and satellite upgrades.

Does the new HR-24 remain at 500GB or are they upgrading to 1TB?
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post #3 of 2071 Old 05-08-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by panoppolite View Post

hats off to directv for their continual hardware, software and satellite upgrades.

Does the new hr-24 remain at 500gb or are they upgrading to 1tb?

500gb.
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post #4 of 2071 Old 05-09-2010, 05:29 PM
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I live in Denver, a roll out market. I was thinking about switching over to D* from E*. Does D* offer all of the Colorado Rockies baseball games in HD? I know D* 'supposedly' does, but I need this verified by a someone who has actually observed the rockies in HD on Directv.
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post #5 of 2071 Old 05-09-2010, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roller11 View Post

I live in Denver, a roll out market. I was thinking about switching over to D* from E*. Does D* offer all of the Colorado Rockies baseball games in HD? I know D* 'supposedly' does, but I need this verified by a someone who has actually observed the rockies in HD on Directv.

FSN Rocky Mountain is a full time HD RSN channel, so if they provide the game to DirecTV in HD then DirecTV will show it in HD. You might want to also post your question in thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17574324 which is the Denver satellite discussion thread.
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post #6 of 2071 Old 05-10-2010, 09:04 AM
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rad,
Thanks for the info. Dish also claims that they offer *all* of the Rockies games in HD, but they do not. So I've learned that the only way to verify programming is to talk to a subscriber that has actually witnessed the programs in question. Seems every one of my family and friends have comcast, so I appeal to the people in this forum for eyewitness verification.
As to the link, that thread was last visited six months ago, so I doubt if my appeal will get any visibility.
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post #7 of 2071 Old 05-10-2010, 12:59 PM
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I am ready to try this new box but a couple of concerns:

--can anyone verify RS232 control is the same? I understand you need an adapter to USB: I would be replacing HR21 Pro's which have a DB-9 serial port

--is channel changing quicker? that is my big complaint with present boxes

--If I get an HR24 and it goes bad, I assume D* will still send me an old crappy HR21?

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post #8 of 2071 Old 05-10-2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roller11 View Post

rad,
Thanks for the info. Dish also claims that they offer *all* of the Rockies games in HD, but they do not. So I've learned that the only way to verify programming is to talk to a subscriber that has actually witnessed the programs in question. Seems every one of my family and friends have comcast, so I appeal to the people in this forum for eyewitness verification.
As to the link, that thread was last visited six months ago, so I doubt if my appeal will get any visibility.

Enter your ZIP here to find out.

Dana

"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain
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post #9 of 2071 Old 05-10-2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smuuth View Post

The thread for the DIRECTV HD DVRs HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23 is now 3 years old.

Since the HR24 is the first of a new design both internally and externally, it seems appropriate to begin a new thread discussing the next generation of HD DVRs from DIRECTV.

The HR24 is faster and designed to work with both SWM (Single Wire Multiswitch) and DECA (DIRECTV Ethernet Coaxial Adapter) technology as well as directly supporting DIRECTV's new MRV (Multi-Room Viewing) which is currently in beta testing and soon to be rolled out nationwide. It sports a new, sleeker physical appearance which is a significant departure from earlier HD DVRs.

The HR24 is now being installed in the 4 markets where MRV is available:
Denver, CO
Portland, OR
Columbia-Jefferson City, MO
Fresno-Visalia, CA
It will likely start shipping to new customers after MRV becomes available nationwide.

More detailed information on the HR24 can be found here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.ph...highlight=hr23

While the other thread is very old and has evolved from an earlier thread,
Since all the HR20/21/23 & HR24 still have common features and run the same firmware,
"Maybe" it time for all of the receiver that work with Mult-Room-Viewing to have a common thread, since we don't have forums for them like DBSTalk.

This would give everyone a one stop place for their questions/answers.

With the "connected home" rolling out, it just seems that we'll either miss or be repeating questions/posts between multiple threads.

With your permission we could use this thread as that and invite/allow non HR24 users to post here.

A.K.A. VOS
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post #10 of 2071 Old 05-10-2010, 02:13 PM
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^^^

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post #11 of 2071 Old 05-15-2010, 12:54 PM
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Two days into the connected home and multi-room viewing national rollout.

The Beta is to stop on May 20th, so now might be a good time to sign up if you haven't and want to keep using it.

A.K.A. VOS
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post #12 of 2071 Old 05-16-2010, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veryoldschool View Post

Two days into the connected home and multi-room viewing national rollout.

The Beta is to stop on May 20th, so now might be a good time to sign up if you haven't and want to keep using it.

So what does that mean? Will I get a message on my boxes regarding the end of MRV and that I need to sign up with D* directly? MRV is more than proven it's worth $3 a month with 3 networked DVRs in my house. I'll probably stop all recording on my HD TiVo and clear it out then shut it off.

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post #13 of 2071 Old 05-17-2010, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezul View Post

So what does that mean? Will I get a message on my boxes regarding the end of MRV and that I need to sign up with D* directly? MRV is more than proven it's worth $3 a month with 3 networked DVRs in my house. I'll probably stop all recording on my HD TiVo and clear it out then shut it off.

I'm afraid what is going to happen on the 20th is your MRV stops working.
Then you'll get the message to call in.
Here is where it becomes tough. DirecTV's system is to setup a connected home network [using DECAs] for the "Whole Home DVR" service.
This costs $99 [hardware] + $49 [service call]
While during the Beta MRV, home networking was the only way, it isn't going to be supported.
There is a "backdoor loophole" to get an unsupported network flag added to your account and then the $3/month charge for the service.
More can be found here:
Backdoor Key

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post #14 of 2071 Old 05-17-2010, 09:58 AM
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So for somebody that has been doing beta MRV and DirecTV2pc over a wired gigE network with no glitches other than trick play being a little slower with MRV, is there any reason to want DECA now or in the future?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryoldschool View Post

I'm afraid what is going to happen on the 20th is your MRV stops working.
Then you'll get the message to call in.
Here is where it becomes tough. DirecTV's system is to setup a connected home network [using DECAs] for the "Whole Home DVR" service.
This costs $99 [hardware] + $49 [service call]
While during the Beta MRV, home networking was the only way, it isn't going to be supported.
There is a "backdoor loophole" to get an unsupported network flag added to your account and then the $3/month charge for the service.
More can be found here:
Backdoor Key

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post #15 of 2071 Old 05-17-2010, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

So for somebody that has been doing beta MRV and DirecTV2pc over a wired gigE network with no glitches other than trick play being a little slower with MRV, is there any reason to want DECA now or in the future?

Trickplay might improve, but it's hard to tell someone who has had things working fine to spend the $99+$49 for the upgrade.
I have it and it works great, but my Cat5 worked as well as the software did at that time too.
There are some good network folks than have looked into this and the DECA does have a feature that ethernet doesn't have. It's a bit over my head, so I'll have to give the "blond speak" version.
DECA has the ability to send a request that will override other packets. This is how the trickplay can improve. Something about layers/stacks/buffers.
If ethernet is FedEx ground for packets, this it an overnight delivery for changes.

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post #16 of 2071 Old 05-17-2010, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veryoldschool View Post

Trickplay might improve, but it's hard to tell someone who has had things working fine to spend the $99+$49 for the upgrade.
I have it and it works great, but my Cat5 worked as well as the software did at that time too.
There are some good network folks than have looked into this and the DECA does have a feature that ethernet doesn't have. It's a bit over my head, so I'll have to give the "blond speak" version.
DECA has the ability to send a request that will override other packets. This is how the trickplay can improve. Something about layers/stacks/buffers.
If ethernet is FedEx ground for packets, this it an overnight delivery for changes.

Since DirecTV doesn't know I already have a SWM8, I'm tempted to accept the DECA upgrade. If I'm not mistaken I will get perhaps a new dish with SWiM or possibly a newer version of the standalone SWM8 (I have fw ver 8, I believe). If I get a new dish, and maybe even if I don't I can get my system checked, dish alignment checked, etc. Faster trickplay would be worth it, since the only feature I currently use with MRV is the combined playlist. Because trickplay is significantly slower, I always change to the receiver that did the recording. I can watch either receiver from the "main viewing location" ... (component/baluns for one and HDMI for the other.)

I'm replacing the HR20-100 that I own with an HR24. I don't really want to upgrade the HR20-700 I lease because I have a 750 gig external HDD with a lot of programs I don't want to lose.
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post #17 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 03:49 AM
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Just linking to this thread.

Just say no to cable.
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post #18 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 03:57 AM
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So far not so good. I found out the MRV went out of Beta and I called right away to schedule my install. When I chose DirecTV over ATT Uverse in my new house I was told the MRV would be available soon and I wouldn't be charged for the upgrade. You can probably guess the rest of the story. After some really calm threats and a talk with customer retention I was scheduled the install no charge.

First appointment tech called with 30 minutes left in the appointment window to say he won't be coming. Second appointment tech was here 2 1/2 hours joined by a supervisor and couldn't get my HR21-700 and H23 boxes networked using the DECA. The IP address kept popping up incorrectly and they apparently couldn't punch it in manually. After two hard resets and countless telephone calls they said they will be back tomorrow with 2 new 24 series boxes.

Hopefully, third time is a charm and they bring the HR24 box this morning.
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post #19 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island_runner View Post

So far not so good. I found out the MRV went out of Beta and I called right away to schedule my install. When I chose DirecTV over ATT Uverse in my new house I was told the MRV would be available soon and I wouldn't be charged for the upgrade. You can probably guess the rest of the story. After some really calm threats and a talk with customer retention I was scheduled the install no charge.

First appointment tech called with 30 minutes left in the appointment window to say he won't be coming. Second appointment tech was here 2 1/2 hours joined by a supervisor and couldn't get my HR21-700 and H23 boxes networked using the DECA. The IP address kept popping up incorrectly and they apparently couldn't punch it in manually. After two hard resets and countless telephone calls they said they will be back tomorrow with 2 new 24 series boxes.

Hopefully, third time is a charm and they bring the HR24 box this morning.

This rollout hasn't gone well, for many reasons.

The problem you seem to have sounds like they haven't used another DECA to bridge to your router. This seems to be a common mistake and is causing these problems.
DHCP works very well and using another DECA with either a 18 volt or 21 volt PI, that connects to your router should resolve this.

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post #20 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 08:19 AM
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I'm glad for this thread. I hadn't been paying attention and had no idea the beta was about to end and that meant my MRV was about to shut off. My network works fine so I think I'll look into that.
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post #21 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veryoldschool View Post

This rollout hasn't gone well, for many reasons.

The problem you seem to have sounds like they haven't used another DECA to bridge to your router. This seems to be a common mistake and is causing these problems.
DHCP works very well and using another DECA with either a 18 volt or 21 volt PI, that connects to your router should resolve this.

My network is static IP only. If I decide to get DECA do I need to enable DHCP? Changing to DHCP is something I have been considering doing anyway. Just a bit of a PIA to change everything in the house on the network.
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post #22 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

My network is static IP only. If I decide to get DECA do I need to enable DHCP? Changing to DHCP is something I have been considering doing anyway. Just a bit of a PIA to change everything in the house on the network.

If you're good with static setups, you "should be" fine making the move.
The 24s have been a bit troublesome using static and not with DHCP.
I have my router reserve IP by MAC address and then have the receivers set to auto [DHCP].
This keeps the IP the same on each receiver and if I need to reset "something" [network defaults, etc.] it comes up easily.

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post #23 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 12:48 PM
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I'm considering switching from Dish to Directv, but I'm concerned over the fact that Directv is getting 100 hrs of HD on a 500 GB harddrive, while Dish is getting only 55 hrs. This, of course, suggests that Directv is compressing their signal more which results in poor PQ vs Dish. Even if it's a a matter of MPEG 2 vs MPEG4, (and I have no reason to think it is) that wouldn't account for such a big difference. Comments?
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post #24 of 2071 Old 05-18-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roller11 View Post

I'm considering switching from Dish to Directv, but I'm concerned over the fact that Directv is getting 100 hrs of HD on a 500 GB harddrive, while Dish is getting only 55 hrs. This, of course, suggests that Directv is compressing their signal more which results in poor PQ vs Dish. Even if it's a a matter of MPEG 2 vs MPEG4, (and I have no reason to think it is) that wouldn't account for such a big difference. Comments?

As I replied to your other post. DirecTV uses MPEG-4, which is why 100 hours with 500 GB.
The 300 GB drive is only 50 hours MPEG-4 & 30 hours MPEG-2
Maybe this will help you.
DirecTV MPEG-4 is full resolution. Dish isn't, as they send 1440 x 1080.

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post #25 of 2071 Old 05-19-2010, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veryoldschool View Post

As I replied to your other post. DirecTV uses MPEG-4, which is why 100 hours with 500 GB.
The 300 GB drive is only 50 hours MPEG-4 & 30 hours MPEG-2
Maybe this will help you.
DirecTV MPEG-4 is full resolution. Dish isn't, as they send 1440 x 1080.

Thanks for the info, where do you get your information? In particular, Directv invented the concept of downresing, they are famous for it. Also, Dish supposedly also does mpeg4. If so then Directv would be getting less programming per GB of drive space, not more.
I don't mean to come off as argumentative, it's just that your statements are the the very definition of "too good to be true" and I don't want to be disappointed. So since your statements defy logic, historical trends, and conventional wisdom, I have to ask how you could possibly know the res of both Dish and Directv, a question pondered in many threads over the past few years.
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post #26 of 2071 Old 05-19-2010, 09:48 AM
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veryoldschool knows all. Trust me, he knows what hes talking about.
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post #27 of 2071 Old 05-19-2010, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roller11 View Post

Thanks for the info, where do you get your information? In particular, Directv invented the concept of downresing, they are famous for it. Also, Dish supposedly also does mpeg4. If so then Directv would be getting less programming per GB of drive space, not more.
I don't mean to come off as argumentative, it's just that your statements are the the very definition of "too good to be true" and I don't want to be disappointed. So since your statements defy logic, historical trends, and conventional wisdom, I have to ask how you could possibly know the res of both Dish and Directv, a question pondered in many threads over the past few years.

You aren't coming across "that way".
Set the time machine back a few years and what you've heard was true.
Moving to HD has caused everyone to have bandwidth issues.
DirecTV has launched 5 SATs for HD to help over come this.
MPEG-4 also helps to reduce the bit-rate with "little loss" of PQ.
Now most cable & Dish still clip about 25% of the image out and then average the missing bits back in at the receiver before it gets to your TV.
Sometimes the "average" would end up being the same bit removed, but with others it would be slightly different. "Joe Six Pack" may not see the difference.
Anyway, you question was: does DirecTV downrez their HD and the answer is: not anymore with MPEG-4.
Since "PQ" is in the eye of the beholder, it might be a good idea to compare dish & DirecTV side by side, to see for yourself.

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post #28 of 2071 Old 05-19-2010, 11:35 AM
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Is there a possibility of empirically figuring this out?

Get somebody with DISH and somebody with DirecTV to download the same HD movie. Then see how big the files are.

My son has DISH and I have DirecTV. We can find a common movie and/or TV show to download. We could get several things off of different networks.

Now then, how do we see what size the files are? Can we figure out which MPEG flavor they are?
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post #29 of 2071 Old 05-19-2010, 11:47 AM
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It's more complicated than just codecs. As reported here:

Quote:


To handle the proliferation of bandwidth-intensive HDTV broadcasting, DirecTV rebroadcasts local HDTV stations using the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC codec while employing a newer transmission protocol (DVB-S2) over the newer satellites. This allows DirecTV to squeeze much more HD programming over its satellite signal than was previously feasible using the older MPEG-2 compression and DSS protocol it has been using. This technology will be gradually expanded to the existing satellites as customer equipment is replaced with new MPEG-4-capable receivers.

...

All DirecTV-delivered local HDTV stations (outside of the NYC and LA network stations) are encoded in MPEG-4. ...


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post #30 of 2071 Old 05-19-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

It's more complicated than just codecs. As reported here:

"And" it gets ever harder as "a transponder" looks at all the channel feeds and then varies the bandwidth of each to leverage more use by not wasting fix bandwidth on a channel that doesn't need it at the moment when another channel does.

I don't know how to do this with Dish, but with DirecTV I can monitor the bit-rate using DirecTV2PC and also time the OnDemand download times over my ISP, to get a fairly good idea of file sizes.

Now back to the starting question:
Anybody that can monitor the actual SAT feed as it comes out of the tuner, can find out what the resolution is. Having read posts of those doing this, I've posted here what they've showed [some even put pictures up of the exact image].

While all of this may be of some interest to some, let's not corrupt this thread too much with this discussion, please.

For those wanting much more of the nitty gritty, please start another thread.

A.K.A. VOS
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