Channel Master CM-7000PAL HD DVR - AKA Dish DTVPal - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 719 Old 09-01-2013, 08:06 PM
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Most hard drives will work if they're between 80 GB and 1 TB. However, I know of at least one drive that will only work in an external enclosure with an eSATA connector. It appears some of the newest 6GB/s SATA III drives may not work when mounted internally like the Pal's stock drive.

If you get a SATA III drive, try to get one with a jumper to force SATA II. Otherwise, you may need an external enclosure and a SATA-to-eSATA transition cable to connect it to the Pal.
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post #632 of 719 Old 09-15-2013, 02:48 PM
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I posted this over on the dish dtv-pal forum, but haven't had any responses, so thought maybe I should have posted it here... as I said there, hope the amount of detail I'm giving is ok (I am a rookie...).

I have a CM7000 DVR that we've had for over 3 years and it's been great (other than the little issues we all would have loved to have seen fixed with a firmware upgrade). However, as of last week, it started constantly freezing for up to a minute when it is doing most functions - changing channel, returning to the list of recorded files after stopping playback, deleting a recording. It will freeze up, normally with a black screen, then will eventually find the picture, but just a frozen picture, then it will eventually find the channel and be fine until we change channel, etc. It's also clear that it's freezing up when it starts a second recording (eg if I'm recording something from 8-9 pm and start something at 8:30 pm), because there is a skip on the file that was already recording. While it is frozen, it still receives signal from the remote (the green light on the front flashes for each press of the remote), but nothing happens. Sometimes it will cue these signals up, sometimes it won't. Has anyone else had this issue?

It is happening with all channels and once it has found the channel, the signal strength is very high, so it's not that it's a weak signal. I also plugged the antenna cable directly into the TV and checked the TV signal with analogue pass through and it's all fine, so it's definitely the PVR. I have done a soft and hard reboot and nothing changed. We have not changed anything about our setup (eg moving the antenna, adding new components, changing cabling, etc).

I contacted CM support and they suggested doing a factory reset and re-formatting the drive - did both of those and no dice. I opened the case up using the super helpful instructions in this forum (thanks!) and while there was a bit of dust, it was nothing crazy - I still cleaned it and it didn't make any difference.

I'm assuming my next step is to replace the HDD (give me a chance to upgrade anyway) or else I'm looking at something serious like a dying tuner...? I've read through the forum as much as I can and have seen that as it says above, I should be able to get any 80Gb-1Tb drive, as long as it's 3.5" (I don't want to try the mods to do a 2.5"); 5400 RPM; SATA I or II (or III that can be jumpered down). I've looked at our local retailers and none sell any of the drives that have been noted in these forums or the ones people have mentioned throughout. So, I wondered if anyone had any luck with:

Western Digital WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN
Western Digital WDBABC0010BNC-NRSN or
Western Digital WD10EZRX

Appreciate any help!
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post #633 of 719 Old 09-16-2013, 08:12 AM
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Those symptoms do sound consistent with a failing HDD. Let's hope that's all it takes to fix your Pal.

The drives listed a few posts back are old models which aren't available new anymore. I haven't tried any of the HDD models you listed; but all of them will probably work. I believe WD drives all have a jumper to force SATA II mode. (Other makes, such as Seagate, may not have that jumper. For those you may need an external enclosure with an eSATA connector.)

I do know that both 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM drives work fine. The stock drive is a 7200 RPM drive, but there's no advantage to 7200 RPM in this DVR, so as a rule I prefer the less power-hungry 5400 RPM drives.

BTW, for a 2.5" drive you shouldn't need to modify the Pal; just use this 2.5"-3.5" mounting bracket.
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post #634 of 719 Old 09-16-2013, 08:58 AM
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IIRC P SMITH has stated that the DTVPal can be power up without a disk. It will function like a CECB and all disk functions will be grayed out. Before buying a disk you might want to disconnect the drive (power off of course) and see if the DTVPal behaves better.
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post #635 of 719 Old 09-16-2013, 11:28 AM
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Actually it was me. (Although P Smith may have said so as well.) But yes, that was my experience. One of my Pals has an external HDD. I booted up the Pal once with the HDD off and that's exactly how it behaved.

Technically it doesn't function quite like a CECB. The HDMI output still works wink.gif (and I bet component video and digital audio work also).

BTW, I'm editing my previous post to include a link to your post on 2.5" drives. You ran into a wrinkle I didn't anticipate.
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post #636 of 719 Old 09-20-2013, 12:26 PM
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So, I ended up buying a WD10EURX after reading on other forums for other DVRs that any of the Western Digital AV-GP drives are designed for constant use in settings like a DVR. Switched the drive in, works perfectly, problems solved (and a ton more space!) Didn't need to do anything with the jumper settings - it worked straight out of the box. Hopefully that's helpful info for anyone else who's looking to upgrade...
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post #637 of 719 Old 09-23-2013, 05:49 AM
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I have a question about PSIP programming guides. I've actually had some success in Atlanta getting our local stations to expand their guides, simply by writing to them. But there is a station here, WANN TV, that has a bunch of substations like MoxiE, RTN, Oldies and ThisTV, that doesn't provide any PSIP whatsoever. I just wrote to them, so I'm waiting to hear what they say, but are stations required by the FCC to provide at least the minimum of PSIP data? And if so, do you know what the minimum is? Thanks!
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post #638 of 719 Old 09-23-2013, 01:18 PM
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The guidelines say that stations need to supply something like 12 hours of PSIP, but even if it is required, many stations circumvent the rules by supplying PSIP that says "DTV Program" or something equally useless. Doing that technically counts as supplying a guide, and the FCC doesn't spend time enforcing most of its regulations. The MeTV/ThisTV/RTV/AntennaTV/etc. re-run stations are usually the worst offenders, and you probably won't be able to do anything about them, since the stations that host them may or may not know what they are showing. It's easier to get the major networks to expand their guides, since they know what their own programming is.
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post #639 of 719 Old 09-24-2013, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

The guidelines say that stations need to supply something like 12 hours of PSIP, but even if it is required, many stations circumvent the rules by supplying PSIP that says "DTV Program" or something equally useless. Doing that technically counts as supplying a guide, and the FCC doesn't spend time enforcing most of its regulations. The MeTV/ThisTV/RTV/AntennaTV/etc. re-run stations are usually the worst offenders, and you probably won't be able to do anything about them, since the stations that host them may or may not know what they are showing. It's easier to get the major networks to expand their guides, since they know what their own programming is.

Well, that makes sense, because the substations of major networks do display their programs, but in this case, WANN TV is just all substations. They don't technically display anything, it just says No Information, which seems to be the CM7000 default if there's nothing there. Still haven't heard back from them, so I may call. Sometimes persistence gets results. Then again, other times, it just makes you tired smile.gif
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post #640 of 719 Old 09-28-2013, 08:46 AM
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just an FYI, but changed out the original hdd to the 1tb wd av-gp. everything went very well, and no start-up issues at all until about a month in. I had a weird audio/video issue where it was like the hdd was stuck or skipping. so I reformatted and all is well.

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post #641 of 719 Old 09-30-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ko220 View Post

I have a question about PSIP programming guides. I've actually had some success in Atlanta getting our local stations to expand their guides, simply by writing to them. But there is a station here, WANN TV, that has a bunch of substations like MoxiE, RTN, Oldies and ThisTV, that doesn't provide any PSIP whatsoever. I just wrote to them, so I'm waiting to hear what they say, but are stations required by the FCC to provide at least the minimum of PSIP data? And if so, do you know what the minimum is? Thanks!

Looks like WANN is a Class A low-power station. As such I'm pretty sure they're exempt from the 12-hour minimum EPG requirement. We have several similar stations in DFW, including our RTV affiliate, and none of them provide a meaningful EPG.

They generally do provide other elements of PSIP, such as time-of-day and the channel map, but usually they just let their encoder send a meaningless EPG, like "TBA" repeated every 3 hours. At best they might replace the "TBA" with the channel's name. Either way, that's actually worse than no EPG at all, since you get these meaningless 3-hour "programs" in your Pal's guide instead of the 1-hour "No info available" default entries the Pal generates for stations with no EPG.
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post #642 of 719 Old 10-02-2013, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


They generally do provide other elements of PSIP, such as time-of-day and the channel map, but usually they just let their encoder send a meaningless EPG, like "TBA" repeated every 3 hours. At best they might replace the "TBA" with the channel's name. Either way, that's actually worse than no EPG at all, since you get these meaningless 3-hour "programs" in your Pal's guide instead of the 1-hour "No info available" default entries the Pal generates for stations with no EPG.

Well, all I get is "No info available" for all the WANN stations, which is annoying, too. The default record time is one hour, and even when I record something, it's labeled Unknown Program. They never wrote me back, by the way. I guess we'll never get any programming info out of them.

Has anybody heard anything else about the new CM coming out that's also going to be web-enabled? I'm kind of wondering if it will have a better program listing.
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post #643 of 719 Old 10-02-2013, 11:25 AM
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True. It'd be best if the WANN subchannels provided a real EPG. But at least the default one-hour record time will occasionally be correct. The 3-hour TBA's that I have to deal with are never right; I always have to edit the timer (and even then the recording gets labeled TBA rolleyes.gif . One feature I wish CM had added to the Pal's firmware was an ability to name a timer, rather than having to rename recordings after-the-fact).

Now this is only a guess, but it's likely that WANN is simply brokering its bandwidth to the various channels it airs. That's how the LPTV stations do it in DFW, anyway. If so, it would be up to each individual network (RTV, This, etc.) to provide EPG info to WANN. The networks would also probably have to pay WANN extra to include their guides in WANN's PSIP data (and that assumes WANN has some engineers that could set it up).


I have no good info on the EPG for the new CM DVR (I think they're calling it the K77 for now). I'd urge them to provide the same paid guide as the CM-7400, and/or to allow Schedules Direct subscribers to use their subscription for the K77 guide, but I doubt they're listening to me.

(Not sure about the CM-7400 guide, but Schedules Direct is provided by Tribune Media, who also run the Zap2it.com TV guide website. You can go to Zap2it.com and see if they list WANN's subchannels; if they do, then a Schedules Direct subscription would work if we're lucky and the new K77 supports it.)
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post #644 of 719 Old 10-08-2013, 06:22 PM
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Has anyone else had issues with the CM-7000PAL recording the second track of audio (Either Spanish or Descriptive audio for the blind) and only having that audio available for playback?
Once the program is recorded, you can push the SAP button, and it shows it only has the English track 1 available, but that is not what you are listening to.
There is no ryhme or reason for this, and it happens on multiple channels that have a second audio track on them during primetime.
I have had this happen on recordings from CBS, ABC, NBC and FOX. I have a CO-Worker who also owns the same model of Channel Master and he has had the same thing happen.
I'm a broadcast engineer for a CBS station, and I have discussed this at length with fellow engineers, and we have no idea why this one model of DVR would do this, while my Dish VIP-622 HD DVR does not experience the problem even if you make a recording using it's internal ATSC OTA tuner.

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post #645 of 719 Old 10-08-2013, 06:43 PM
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You might want to search the DTVPal thread, as this problem appeared a few months ago. There was some speculation that it had to do with stations not setting the languages on every audio track correctly, but I don't recall if it was ever confirmed.
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post #646 of 719 Old 10-08-2013, 09:08 PM
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Thanks, I'll search it again, but I did not see anything on that thread when I checked it earlier. Might need to try different search criteria.
We are one of the stations, and I have checked our settings. We have a second audio track always active, and when there is no decriptive audio or a second language we put monaural english audio on that second track. Since the problem has happened on all the Denver channels at one time or another I don't think it's a problem caused by the broadcasters, especially since on all my other recordings I am able to switch between both tracks and they are both correct.
When this happens only one track of audio is there, which is the second track, and you cannot switch it to another track.

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post #647 of 719 Old 10-08-2013, 09:55 PM
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That sounds exactly like the problem the other person was having earlier. If you post in the DTVPal thread, maybe whoever it was will see it and reiterate his findings.
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post #648 of 719 Old 10-18-2013, 01:42 PM
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I too vaguely remember someone describing this problem on the DTVPal thread. IIRC he'd recorded some PBS shows on his Pal, but it would only play back the secondary track, which was either Spanish, descriptive audio, or just silent (I don't remember for sure).

Since the Pal records all data for a subchannel, both soundtracks must have been "in there" somewhere, but I don't think we ever figured out a way to play the primary track. (The Pal's proprietary file system often has its drawbacks.) Our best suggestion was to mute the sound and turn on subtitles redface.gif

I've never had this problem myself during playback, but it did happen to me - once - during live viewing. Changing the channel and changing back fixed it. Maybe a glitch at the start of viewing/recording can "fool" the Pal into thinking the primary track doesn't exist, or that both tracks are flagged English (which makes it impossible to choose between them).

Since there's no apparent pattern to the problem, is their any indication that reception is weak/marginal, such as pixelation/breakups, etc. on the Pals showing the problem? (I wouldn't go by the Pal's signal strength meter - the signal may be strong but shifting multipath interference can still cause reception problems.) If so, a more directional TV antenna might be an easy fix.

One defense might be to record the same show twice, starting one recording a minute later than the other. (You could set one recording from the guide and the other manually, VCR-style.) If a reception glitch is causing the problem, it's unlikely to affect the start of both recordings.
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post #649 of 719 Old 10-26-2013, 07:02 PM
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For several months I have noticed that one local station, WTIC-TV, Hartford, Connecticut, has "No Information" where there used to be program descriptions when I pressed "Info" on the CM-7000's remote. There are no descriptions for both local and network shows on its FOX main channel, and none on its multicast channel, AntennaTV. (For over two of the nearly three years that I've been using the 7000, the descriptions appeared with no problem.) All the other stations' program listings in the EPG currently include synopses for some or most of their shows/movies. Even WCCT, a sister station of WTIC that is broadcast out of the same building, has descriptions in the guide for programming on both its main CW channel and its ThisTV secondary channel.

I emailed AntennaTV in Chicago and received a reply that they hadn't made any changes to the way that they send out content information to the national program listings services. It was suggested that the problem might be due to either an issue with WTIC's delivery or due to a change made by the listings service that populates WTIC's EPG. I did not receive a reply from WTIC. I also emailed Tribune Media Services and zap2it, thinking that either of them might be the listings service used by WTIC as all three entities have the same corporate parent, Tribune. No reply has come from TMS or zap2it either.

Would anyone have an idea as to why the descriptions would be lacking for WTIC? The other thing that I've noticed is WTIC's guide can be advanced for three days with titles in all the timeslots, but WCCT's/ThisTV's schedules can only be advanced for about five hours before "No Information" shows up in all the timeslots.

Thanks.
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post #650 of 719 Old 10-26-2013, 08:21 PM
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For networks that usually offer program data, any lack of data locally is likely the fault of your particular station. Somebody probably unplugged or reset a piece of hardware by accident. wink.gif Unfortunately, getting them to fix it could take a while, and you'll probably need to call, not just e-mail them.
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post #651 of 719 Old 10-27-2013, 07:28 AM
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WHNB: in Chicago WGN's own PSIP stream usually provides about seventy-two hours of guide data for Antenna TV, so I'll back up what you heard from them.  It's your local affiliate that is dropping the ball or, less likely, your equipment that's failing to display the info.
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post #652 of 719 Old 10-27-2013, 05:48 PM
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I appreciate both of your responses. Thank you.
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post #653 of 719 Old 11-01-2013, 09:58 AM
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My CM-7000PAL is starting to give me problems. As I posted before, my unit has two types of recordings, one is called an event and the other is called manual. The Event recording is scheduled from the program guide and is based on the program name. Very similar to the TiVo. The recording times will change if the program listing changes. My issue is that since TV Guide disappeared, the unit is using PSIG. And if a program listing is not available, then some generic name is filled in. And then the CM-7000PAL starts to follow that generic name around. End of recording the correct show.

I have changed all of the recording types to manual and will see if that improves the issue. I also have on order an TV tuner for use by my HTPC. I will probably be moving everything over to the HTPC if that works out.

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post #654 of 719 Old 11-01-2013, 11:38 AM
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Yours is the first report I've heard of any Pal chasing an event recording by name. The CM-7400 does this, but both of my Pals (one DTVPal and one CM-7000Pal) have always recorded by time, whether the timer is an event timer or a manual one. (The difference is that an event timer will pick up the name of the program starting at, say, 7 PM; even if there's padding that starts the recording at 6:58 PM. The manual timer will pick up the name of whatever show is on at 6:58 in this situation.)

Anyway, on the Pal, you can convert any timer from event to manual by editing it, so you can schedule the recording from the guide, then go back in and change something rather than having to enter all the info manually. It doesn't matter what you change, but manual timers don't use padding, so if you normally pad your recordings, change the start and/or end times to include any desired padding. (And beware of the naming issue if you change the start time.)

What is your firmware version? (Press Sys Info if unsure; look for the string "Fnnn.") All our CM-7000 Pals have been F400.
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post #655 of 719 Old 11-01-2013, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

just an FYI, but changed out the original hdd to the 1tb wd av-gp. everything went very well, and no start-up issues at all until about a month in. I had a weird audio/video issue where it was like the hdd was stuck or skipping. so I reformatted and all is well.
I would highly recommend to use MHDD or VIctoria; run Scan+Remap and get SMART before and after that run !

That would tell you if the drive is good enough to continue use it or it should be returned by warranty or dumped.

[telling you as IT guy with 20+ years experience with 24/7 support of servers/desktops/NB in mufti billion corp]
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post #656 of 719 Old 11-05-2013, 09:36 AM
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I just checked last night my firmware is F400

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post #657 of 719 Old 11-05-2013, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschlic1 View Post

I just checked last night my firmware is F400
the version came with first CM7k-DVR device and never changed; it's full equivalent of F208
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post #658 of 719 Old 11-05-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gracz View Post

Has anyone else had issues with the CM-7000PAL recording the second track of audio (Either Spanish or Descriptive audio for the blind) and only having that audio available for playback?
Once the program is recorded, you can push the SAP button, and it shows it only has the English track 1 available, but that is not what you are listening to.
There is no ryhme or reason for this, and it happens on multiple channels that have a second audio track on them during primetime.
I have had this happen on recordings from CBS, ABC, NBC and FOX. I have a CO-Worker who also owns the same model of Channel Master and he has had the same thing happen.
I'm a broadcast engineer for a CBS station, and I have discussed this at length with fellow engineers, and we have no idea why this one model of DVR would do this, while my Dish VIP-622 HD DVR does not experience the problem even if you make a recording using it's internal ATSC OTA tuner.

It's yet another bug in the firmware. The SAP button never works while playing a recorded show, but both audio tracks are there. Try this:
  1. Press "Menu" button
  2. Select "Setup" (3)
  3. Select "Audio setup" (3)
  4. For "Audio Language" select "Spanish"
  5. Select "Done"
  6. Select "Audio setup" (3)
  7. For "Audio Language" select "English"
  8. Select "Done"
  9. If the problem is fixed, back out of the menus.
  10. If the problem is not fixed, repeat toggling the language until it either is fixed or you are tired of trying.

Sometimes this works the first try, sometimes it takes a few tries and sometimes it never works. One time I got it working when I watched a recording, then the next day when my wife went to watch the same recording it never worked.
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post #659 of 719 Old 02-05-2014, 07:24 AM
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Someone mentioned an EPG Collector. Isn't there a way to use it with the CM7000 dvr
Now we have the DVR+ and it has EPG. We need a retrofit or ??
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post #660 of 719 Old 02-05-2014, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REMAC View Post

Someone mentioned an EPG Collector. Isn't there a way to use it with the CM7000 dvr
Now we have the DVR+ and it has EPG. We need a retrofit or ??
Yes, we need !

But CM or e* don't want to do that ! They are stop supporting the model [and DTVpalDVR too]

Nor give us source code and IDE to develop updated FW frown.gif
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