Channel Master CM-7000PAL HD DVR - AKA Dish DTVPal - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 748 Old 08-16-2014, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by FeedMeNoSpam

...
I think the constantly freezing CM7000PAL is a mortally wounded one that falls in the "for parts" category on eBay or (gag) Craig's list...

looks to me as correct assessment
Have to state AGAIN... Unless the reported failing units have defective soldering under the LSI chip with the Ball Gate Array (BGA), I'll bet dollars to doughnuts problems like these can and are caused by DEFECTIVE CAPS.... THIS is probably a better assessment........ (I know of a good optometrist Mr. Smith ;-)
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post #722 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 03:53 AM
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it's written on many pages in that main thread about DTVpaDVR - the remotes are the same, just a couple buttons [CC, sysinfo, power] has different names
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post #723 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Hankw69 View Post
Have to state AGAIN... Unless the reported failing units have defective soldering under the LSI chip with the Ball Gate Array (BGA), I'll bet dollars to doughnuts problems like these can and are caused by DEFECTIVE CAPS.... THIS is probably a better assessment........ (I know of a good optometrist Mr. Smith ;-)
I don't know how many TR50 you did fix, but seems to me your knowledge a little short.
A.There is no LSI chip.
B. Usually bulged caps (by my own statistics around 50+ fixed devices) are NOT the case.
C. Many cases related to developed bad BGA contacts during time of using (head/cooling cycles).
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post #724 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
it's written on many pages in that main thread about DTVpaDVR - the remotes are the same, just a couple buttons [CC, sysinfo, power] has different names
Thanks for the immediate info. Link at
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321418554112...84.m1497.l2649

has one for $6.36 with free "standard shipping"... My original is still working and just wanted to have a spare on hand..
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post #725 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 11:19 AM
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deleted to repost with pix....

Last edited by Hankw69; 08-17-2014 at 11:30 AM. Reason: deleted to repost with pix....
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post #726 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I don't know how many TR50 you did fix, but seems to me your knowledge a little short.
A.There is no LSI chip.
B. Usually bulged caps (by my own statistics around 50+ fixed devices) are NOT the case.
C. Many cases related to developed bad BGA contacts during time of using (head/cooling cycles).
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Originally Posted by Hankw69 View Post
Mr. Smith, IF I understand that the TR50 and DTVPal are identical in design then my observations in my ONE repair(my unit-DTVPal), I can state that there IS an LSI chip on the main motherboard, under the front left metal shield/cover. A quote from Wikipedia "Further development, driven by the same economic factors, led to "large-scale integration" (LSI) in the mid-1970s, with tens of thousands of transistors per chip." The way an integrated circuit is mounted is dependant on the number of circuits that is contained inside the chip itself. The multitude of connections that these LSI chips need to communicate to the other devices circuitry require a different method to solder via small balls to the circuit board pads. BGA (Ball Grid Array). Regarding the bulging tops on capacitors, I would be remiss if I performed a repair without replacing any cap I saw that had a bulging top, even thought its function was not associated with the reported problem. Although these "bulgers" may still function properly, you will have to agree that they ARE on the way to failure and their replacement would be mandatory for a proper service repair... I hope in your 50+ repairs that you DID replace ANY cap that was bulging... Even though you may have measured/tested them as "good"... I have attached two jpg's one of a TYPICAL BGA chip, in this case an Intel chip and another that does show an LSI chip that is used in the DTVPal, (front left).... Again the link for the LSI chip used in the DTVPal is : http://www.alldatasheet.com/datashee...S/STI7109.html
A block diagram attached shows that there is a ton of functions that this LSI chip provides..

Your assessment of the cause of BGA failure is quite accurate and proper. Even slight printed circuit board flexing will be detrimental to the mounting of thee chips...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.. :-)

I still know a good optometrist :-)
reposted with pix, I hope...
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post #727 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 12:33 PM
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Thumbs up Over A Week Later And Still Spinning

So continue the adventures of the CM7000PAL post repair shop visit.

It's been over a week and the repaired CM7000PAL with it's replaced capacitor is working like a champ

Still using the WD Blue label drive that came in this unit. Haven't seen anything in the way of bad behavior out of it. Noted one event that did not get recorded, but that was caused by the station dropping it's signal not what I would consider the CM7000's fault - I had a Magnovox DVR set to record the same event and they are like old VCRs and go off no matter what and it recorded ~10min of dead air before the station got itself back on the air, so no wonder the CM7000 just dropped the job...that's just the way they are
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post #728 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedMeNoSpam View Post
So continue the adventures of the CM7000PAL post repair shop visit.

It's been over a week and the repaired CM7000PAL with it's replaced capacitor is working like a champ

Still using the WD Blue label drive that came in this unit. Haven't seen anything in the way of bad behavior out of it. Noted one event that did not get recorded, but that was caused by the station dropping it's signal not what I would consider the CM7000's fault - I had a Magnovox DVR set to record the same event and they are like old VCRs and go off no matter what and it recorded ~10min of dead air before the station got itself back on the air, so no wonder the CM7000 just dropped the job...that's just the way they are
I do not know what soldering skills you may have, but, it is not really that difficult to perform some of the repair work yourself. My suggestion is to buy some surplus printed circuit boards to practice on, and if you eff one up-no problem. A good soldering iron is key and to use enough heat WITH soldering wick that contains rosin flux(dried and is evident when heated). It is my opinion to use a bit higher heat ~700 ' for a shorter time than to cook at a lower tip temperature for a longer time. Remember that the circuit boards used are multi layered and will take a bit more heat to successfully un-solder a component. The wick works best for me and a little "wick wiggling" helps in the de-soldering process. whatever you do, do not force the component removal as you DO NOT want to lift a solder pad. Again, several practice sessions with junk PCB's will provide good practice. As I have posted before in the DTVPal thread, I had similar issues with the unit dropping audio and then freezing up. A reboot only "fixed" the problem for a short time. After getting frustraited(sp) -pi$$ed enough to open the box and take a look, I found that some electrolytic capacitors had entered a failure stage indicated with "BULGING TOPS"... YES, I also have some broken cover tabs and as long as the unit sits nicely on my audio/video wall, I figured what the heck I'll just live with it. Anyway, I am glad that I looked under the hood and spotted and replaced the bad caps which DID SOLVE my freezing issue... (I still have a bag of 30 new replacements to replace, just because they are old and for 19 bucks for 34 caps - well - it's a no-brainer to do preventative maintenance, with four already R&R'd). I realize that someday I'll have to get a new box but am holding off as long as I can. My present setup is using the component outputs feeding a component splitter-1 in and three out. These feed the main TV, the BR TV and the last output to a Hauppague 1212 PVR to record to file then disk the shows saved on the PAL. The Toslink output from the PAL runs to the DVR and is looped back to my Sony receiver. This requires the DVR to be powered on all the time, but BFD with <10W draw. Anyway if you like the PAL, fix what you can until you want/need to upgrade as it really does a great job when you maintain/repair the occasional component failures... Whew-too many words. enuf for now.. Good Luck...
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post #729 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 04:30 PM
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Well, the chip usually named by mfg and model: STMicro STi7109 (I forgot the ancient acronym LSI because today it's a company name what produce a lot of different chips include SC2000 for STB).

BTW, please remove middle picture, it's totally wrong BGA layout of STi7109 used in TR50.
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post #730 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Well, the chip usually named by mfg and model: STMicro STi7109 (I forgot the ancient acronym LSI because today it's a company name what produce a lot of different chips include SC2000 for STB).

BTW, please remove middle picture, it's totally wrong BGA layout of STi7109 used in TR50.
IF I am not mistaken, I DID state the pix of the BGA was of an INTEL CHIP - to illustrate what a BGA underside looks like, NOT the actual PAL chip.... Thank you.. My earlier post - AS stated below..

I have attached two jpg's one of a TYPICAL BGA chip, in this case an Intel chip and another that does show an LSI chip that is used in the DTVPal

Prescription Glasses should be considered................

Last edited by Hankw69; 08-17-2014 at 04:41 PM. Reason: Additional info of previous post included...
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post #731 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 04:38 PM
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sorta out of thread's content ...
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post #732 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 04:50 PM
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sorta out of thread's content ...

IF sharing with the members details of the components used in the CM7000/ PAL is permitted, I will give examples of TYPICAL component attributes/build structure and the Intel BGA pix showed a good example of what we speak of when we mention B G A.... I'm done...
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post #733 of 748 Old 08-17-2014, 06:58 PM
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Thumbs up Thanks for the advise for DIYSers

I am too chicken to try any "solder your" own on a board in a CM7000PAL. Loong ago, far away in another age I was in an electronics training program and it was fairly well proven I should stick to black box level work ;> I do fine with that sort of fix it actions.
Everything I ever tried to solder that was electronic parts involved turned up DOA... So I stick to just soldering wires and such - those I have no problems with ;>
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post #734 of 748 Old 08-26-2014, 05:46 PM
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Would this model be a direct replacement for the original PAL 5.3 remote OR it being a "learning remote", would it need to be programmed with my still working 5.3 unit?? Thanks for the info...
Get the Dish network 5.3 ir. 148785. Exactly the same except the button markings.
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post #735 of 748 Old 09-14-2014, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedMeNoSpam View Post
I am too chicken to try any "solder your" own on a board in a CM7000PAL. Loong ago, far away in another age I was in an electronics training program and it was fairly well proven I should stick to black box level work ;> I do fine with that sort of fix it actions.
Everything I ever tried to solder that was electronic parts involved turned up DOA... So I stick to just soldering wires and such - those I have no problems with ;>
see the thread's last page - there you'll find encouraging posts how to fix your Pal by change capacitors (typical failure and typical DYI)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdt...-avs-dish.html
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post #736 of 748 Old 11-17-2014, 09:09 AM
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Frozen Channel Master Loading Screen.......

Hello,
My channel master 7000pal is stuck on the loading screen (which is what you normally see when setting up the device). I unplugged it let it sit for a week but when hooking it back up its still stuck on that screen. I called the 800 number but they didn't help, just wanted to sell me a newer unit. I cannot believe these devices don't have a hard or soft reset button to resolve issues like this. Has anyone experienced this and if so, were they able to resolve the problem?

Thanks
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post #737 of 748 Old 11-17-2014, 09:25 AM
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Could be several problems. Here are two possibilities you can do something about:
  1. Bad hard drive. The word "loading..." should "throb" smoothly between red and black when you power it up. If it's jerky or frozen instead, you may need to replace the HDD.
  2. Corrupted timers. Did your Pal freeze up shortly after daylight saving time ended? If so, this could be the problem.

Could also be a different problem such as corrupted firmware, but let's hope it's one of the above.

You can try to fix corrupted timers by disconnecting the antenna cable, then plugging it in. Hopefully this will get you past "loading..." so you can get to a menu. If so, immediately reset to factory defaults (Menu-3-2-4). You can then reconnect the antenna cable (the Pal will scan your TV channels again). Once the reset is done you should be OK to re-enter your recording timers.

Unfortunately the CM-7000Pal is no longer produced, so CM can't repair or replace it. (They can only sell you their new DVR+.)

Last edited by JHBrandt; 11-17-2014 at 11:21 AM.
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post #738 of 748 Old 11-17-2014, 06:27 PM
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Frozen Channel Master Loading Screen.......

Hey BRandt,

Now that you mentioned it, the problem did start on Nov 3, the day after daylight savings.....Its not the HD, I just replaced that 3 months ago. So I did disconnect the antenna, but its not helping it. I opened up the unit and disconnected the HD to see if that would help it. Nothing is moving it past the loading screen. The DVR lights come on when I plug it in but then the unit shuts down after about 5/10 secs and the loading screen just continues to display on the tv even though the dvr has shut down.

But yes, it did happen when the daylight savings went into effect. Anything else you can suggest?
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post #739 of 748 Old 11-18-2014, 09:33 AM
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Does anyone repair these DVR's on here?

If anyone is able t repair my cm 7000-pal, please let me know. Its stuck on the loading screen. Problem started after daylight savings took place. Tried troubleshooting and it will not bypass loading page. No service techs in my area will attempt to work on this DVR. If you know anyone I can send my DVR to be repaired, please reply to this thread.
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post #740 of 748 Old 11-18-2014, 10:02 AM
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This pretty much sounds like you have the PAL loading bug which is generally the kiss of death -- corrupted firmware. User @P. Smith used to service the DTVPal DVR's by re-flashing the corrupted firmware into the ROM -- but that was before he moved from Ca back to Greece. Even so, it is probably not possible for the CM-7000 because there never was a firmware update released for it, which means there is no firmware file anyone could use.

Still, I guess one could try and flash the DTVPal DVR F208 firmware -- what would you have to lose. But other than @P.Smith, no one else did the repair. If he is out of business, you are pretty much out of luck and probably should start thinking about your next DVR.

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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
This pretty much sounds like you have the PAL loading bug which is generally the kiss of death -- corrupted firmware. User @P. Smith used to service the DTVPal DVR's by re-flashing the corrupted firmware into the ROM -- but that was before he moved from Ca back to Greece. Even so, it is probably not possible for the CM-7000 because there never was a firmware update released for it, which means there is no firmware file anyone could use.

Still, I guess one could try and flash the DTVPal DVR F208 firmware -- what would you have to lose. But other than @P.Smith, no one else did the repair. If he is out of business, you are pretty much out of luck and probably should start thinking about your next DVR.
Great, thanks for the reply
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post #742 of 748 Old 11-18-2014, 11:24 AM
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actually, I'd like to help ... send me PM
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post #743 of 748 Old 11-18-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by marci1111 View Post
Hey BRandt,

Now that you mentioned it, the problem did start on Nov 3, the day after daylight savings.....Its not the HD, I just replaced that 3 months ago. So I did disconnect the antenna, but its not helping it. I opened up the unit and disconnected the HD to see if that would help it. Nothing is moving it past the loading screen. The DVR lights come on when I plug it in but then the unit shuts down after about 5/10 secs and the loading screen just continues to display on the tv even though the dvr has shut down.

But yes, it did happen when the daylight savings went into effect. Anything else you can suggest?
The highlighted part is actually normal behavior - but if the "loading..." doesn't go away after 45 seconds or so, even with the antenna disconnected, then you probably need the firmware re-flashed.

Go ahead and check with P Smith and see if he can help. If you can get the DVR to him, he can probably re-flash the firmware from a good unit. Shipping won't be cheap but still beats a new Pal, or even a DVR+....
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post #744 of 748 Old 11-18-2014, 04:07 PM
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actually, I'd like to help ... send me PM
He can't, he only has 5 posts. You need to send him the PM.
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post #745 of 748 Old 12-10-2014, 10:32 PM
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If anyone is looking for a working CM7000PAL, I put mine on ebay this evening. item id 281526819232
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Hi all,

First of all thanks for the many posts about CM7000PAL (timing) issues. After more than a few years my unit starting locking up a couple of months ago, so I researched all the input and found the 2 bad capacitors, which I replaced and it's back to normal now- THANK YOU!!

On a related note, I wanted to update my firmware, and knowing that CM no longer provides CM7000 updates, thought that the F208 firmware would work for me. What I downloaded, was "phpQYEZB5" which was then renamed to "TR50_F208_0HUC00.upd" but neither of these work on my CM7000 PAL. (it says the current software is F480 TALD-N)

Any suggestions on (a) what I might be doing wrong, or (b) where I can get the right version for the CM7000?
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AFAIK there were never any firmware updates for the CM7000 Pal. Mine came with F400, as I think everyone's did. The CM7000 Pal only allows newer firmware to be loaded, and the latest DTVPal firmware was F208, which it considers an older version and won't load.

But apart from cosmetics, AFAIK no one has ever identified any difference between F208 and F400.
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post #748 of 748 Unread Today, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
AFAIK there were never any firmware updates for the CM7000 Pal. Mine came with F400, as I think everyone's did. The CM7000 Pal only allows newer firmware to be loaded, and the latest DTVPal firmware was F208, which it considers an older version and won't load.

But apart from cosmetics, AFAIK no one has ever identified any difference between F208 and F400.
Thanks, I guess then if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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