Channel Master CM-7000PAL HD DVR - AKA Dish DTVPal - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 02:53 AM
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it's written on many pages in that main thread about DTVpaDVR - the remotes are the same, just a couple buttons [CC, sysinfo, power] has different names
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post #722 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankw69 View Post
Have to state AGAIN... Unless the reported failing units have defective soldering under the LSI chip with the Ball Gate Array (BGA), I'll bet dollars to doughnuts problems like these can and are caused by DEFECTIVE CAPS.... THIS is probably a better assessment........ (I know of a good optometrist Mr. Smith ;-)
I don't know how many TR50 you did fix, but seems to me your knowledge a little short.
A.There is no LSI chip.
B. Usually bulged caps (by my own statistics around 50+ fixed devices) are NOT the case.
C. Many cases related to developed bad BGA contacts during time of using (head/cooling cycles).
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post #723 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
it's written on many pages in that main thread about DTVpaDVR - the remotes are the same, just a couple buttons [CC, sysinfo, power] has different names
Thanks for the immediate info. Link at
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321418554112...84.m1497.l2649

has one for $6.36 with free "standard shipping"... My original is still working and just wanted to have a spare on hand..
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post #724 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 10:19 AM
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deleted to repost with pix....

Last edited by Hankw69; 08-17-2014 at 10:30 AM. Reason: deleted to repost with pix....
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post #725 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I don't know how many TR50 you did fix, but seems to me your knowledge a little short.
A.There is no LSI chip.
B. Usually bulged caps (by my own statistics around 50+ fixed devices) are NOT the case.
C. Many cases related to developed bad BGA contacts during time of using (head/cooling cycles).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankw69 View Post
Mr. Smith, IF I understand that the TR50 and DTVPal are identical in design then my observations in my ONE repair(my unit-DTVPal), I can state that there IS an LSI chip on the main motherboard, under the front left metal shield/cover. A quote from Wikipedia "Further development, driven by the same economic factors, led to "large-scale integration" (LSI) in the mid-1970s, with tens of thousands of transistors per chip." The way an integrated circuit is mounted is dependant on the number of circuits that is contained inside the chip itself. The multitude of connections that these LSI chips need to communicate to the other devices circuitry require a different method to solder via small balls to the circuit board pads. BGA (Ball Grid Array). Regarding the bulging tops on capacitors, I would be remiss if I performed a repair without replacing any cap I saw that had a bulging top, even thought its function was not associated with the reported problem. Although these "bulgers" may still function properly, you will have to agree that they ARE on the way to failure and their replacement would be mandatory for a proper service repair... I hope in your 50+ repairs that you DID replace ANY cap that was bulging... Even though you may have measured/tested them as "good"... I have attached two jpg's one of a TYPICAL BGA chip, in this case an Intel chip and another that does show an LSI chip that is used in the DTVPal, (front left).... Again the link for the LSI chip used in the DTVPal is : http://www.alldatasheet.com/datashee...S/STI7109.html
A block diagram attached shows that there is a ton of functions that this LSI chip provides..

Your assessment of the cause of BGA failure is quite accurate and proper. Even slight printed circuit board flexing will be detrimental to the mounting of thee chips...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.. :-)

I still know a good optometrist :-)
reposted with pix, I hope...
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post #726 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 11:33 AM
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Thumbs up Over A Week Later And Still Spinning

So continue the adventures of the CM7000PAL post repair shop visit.

It's been over a week and the repaired CM7000PAL with it's replaced capacitor is working like a champ

Still using the WD Blue label drive that came in this unit. Haven't seen anything in the way of bad behavior out of it. Noted one event that did not get recorded, but that was caused by the station dropping it's signal not what I would consider the CM7000's fault - I had a Magnovox DVR set to record the same event and they are like old VCRs and go off no matter what and it recorded ~10min of dead air before the station got itself back on the air, so no wonder the CM7000 just dropped the job...that's just the way they are
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post #727 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedMeNoSpam View Post
So continue the adventures of the CM7000PAL post repair shop visit.

It's been over a week and the repaired CM7000PAL with it's replaced capacitor is working like a champ

Still using the WD Blue label drive that came in this unit. Haven't seen anything in the way of bad behavior out of it. Noted one event that did not get recorded, but that was caused by the station dropping it's signal not what I would consider the CM7000's fault - I had a Magnovox DVR set to record the same event and they are like old VCRs and go off no matter what and it recorded ~10min of dead air before the station got itself back on the air, so no wonder the CM7000 just dropped the job...that's just the way they are
I do not know what soldering skills you may have, but, it is not really that difficult to perform some of the repair work yourself. My suggestion is to buy some surplus printed circuit boards to practice on, and if you eff one up-no problem. A good soldering iron is key and to use enough heat WITH soldering wick that contains rosin flux(dried and is evident when heated). It is my opinion to use a bit higher heat ~700 ' for a shorter time than to cook at a lower tip temperature for a longer time. Remember that the circuit boards used are multi layered and will take a bit more heat to successfully un-solder a component. The wick works best for me and a little "wick wiggling" helps in the de-soldering process. whatever you do, do not force the component removal as you DO NOT want to lift a solder pad. Again, several practice sessions with junk PCB's will provide good practice. As I have posted before in the DTVPal thread, I had similar issues with the unit dropping audio and then freezing up. A reboot only "fixed" the problem for a short time. After getting frustraited(sp) -pi$$ed enough to open the box and take a look, I found that some electrolytic capacitors had entered a failure stage indicated with "BULGING TOPS"... YES, I also have some broken cover tabs and as long as the unit sits nicely on my audio/video wall, I figured what the heck I'll just live with it. Anyway, I am glad that I looked under the hood and spotted and replaced the bad caps which DID SOLVE my freezing issue... (I still have a bag of 30 new replacements to replace, just because they are old and for 19 bucks for 34 caps - well - it's a no-brainer to do preventative maintenance, with four already R&R'd). I realize that someday I'll have to get a new box but am holding off as long as I can. My present setup is using the component outputs feeding a component splitter-1 in and three out. These feed the main TV, the BR TV and the last output to a Hauppague 1212 PVR to record to file then disk the shows saved on the PAL. The Toslink output from the PAL runs to the DVR and is looped back to my Sony receiver. This requires the DVR to be powered on all the time, but BFD with <10W draw. Anyway if you like the PAL, fix what you can until you want/need to upgrade as it really does a great job when you maintain/repair the occasional component failures... Whew-too many words. enuf for now.. Good Luck...
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post #728 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 03:30 PM
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Well, the chip usually named by mfg and model: STMicro STi7109 (I forgot the ancient acronym LSI because today it's a company name what produce a lot of different chips include SC2000 for STB).

BTW, please remove middle picture, it's totally wrong BGA layout of STi7109 used in TR50.
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post #729 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Well, the chip usually named by mfg and model: STMicro STi7109 (I forgot the ancient acronym LSI because today it's a company name what produce a lot of different chips include SC2000 for STB).

BTW, please remove middle picture, it's totally wrong BGA layout of STi7109 used in TR50.
IF I am not mistaken, I DID state the pix of the BGA was of an INTEL CHIP - to illustrate what a BGA underside looks like, NOT the actual PAL chip.... Thank you.. My earlier post - AS stated below..

I have attached two jpg's one of a TYPICAL BGA chip, in this case an Intel chip and another that does show an LSI chip that is used in the DTVPal

Prescription Glasses should be considered................

Last edited by Hankw69; 08-17-2014 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Additional info of previous post included...
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post #730 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 03:38 PM
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sorta out of thread's content ...
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post #731 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 03:50 PM
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sorta out of thread's content ...

IF sharing with the members details of the components used in the CM7000/ PAL is permitted, I will give examples of TYPICAL component attributes/build structure and the Intel BGA pix showed a good example of what we speak of when we mention B G A.... I'm done...
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post #732 of 735 Old 08-17-2014, 05:58 PM
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Thumbs up Thanks for the advise for DIYSers

I am too chicken to try any "solder your" own on a board in a CM7000PAL. Loong ago, far away in another age I was in an electronics training program and it was fairly well proven I should stick to black box level work ;> I do fine with that sort of fix it actions.
Everything I ever tried to solder that was electronic parts involved turned up DOA... So I stick to just soldering wires and such - those I have no problems with ;>
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post #733 of 735 Old 08-26-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankw69 View Post
Would this model be a direct replacement for the original PAL 5.3 remote OR it being a "learning remote", would it need to be programmed with my still working 5.3 unit?? Thanks for the info...
Get the Dish network 5.3 ir. 148785. Exactly the same except the button markings.
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post #734 of 735 Old 09-13-2014, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedMeNoSpam View Post
I am too chicken to try any "solder your" own on a board in a CM7000PAL. Loong ago, far away in another age I was in an electronics training program and it was fairly well proven I should stick to black box level work ;> I do fine with that sort of fix it actions.
Everything I ever tried to solder that was electronic parts involved turned up DOA... So I stick to just soldering wires and such - those I have no problems with ;>
see the thread's last page - there you'll find encouraging posts how to fix your Pal by change capacitors (typical failure and typical DYI)
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdt...-avs-dish.html
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