DirecTV HR 24 HDMI Brightness - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 07-10-2010, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a new HR 24 unit and the picture looks washed out over HDMI. Component video looks fine, nice deep blacks and color.

Is there a way to adjust this? On my AppleTV, for example, it has an HDMI output setting where you can select "RGB High" or "RGB Low", where the "low" setting avoids the washed out look. I don't see a similar option on the HR 24.
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-16-2010, 03:27 PM
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I have come to a conclusion that this is a bug in the firmware of the HR 24.

The older DirecTV models output the YPbPr:4:4:4 colorspace. However the new HR 24 outputs RGB 16-235. This is all fine and dandy except that the box reports that it is outputting RGB 0-255. Now when your display is set to automatically determine the colorspace (as most TVs are set this way) it will incorrectly detect PC RGB colorspace of RGB 0-255. This causes serious Black level problems and produces a washed out picture.

I have not found any way to correct this in the HR-24 setup menu but there are a couple poor alternatives:

1. Change your TV to look for the correct color space RGB 16-235. sometimes this is called RGB limited as opposed to enhanced.

2. My Yamaha receive (3900) has an HDMI -> HDMI post processing loop which I normally keep turned off, however, when I turn this on it correctly converts the color space to 16-235. However, I am not sure if this is simply truncating the 0-255 color space or correctly detecting it and passing it on. More testing is needed.

Finally, if anyone knows how to force the Directv box into YPbPr mode please let me know.
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post #3 of 36 Old 08-16-2010, 05:53 PM
 
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Definitely an issue. My HR22 is noticeably sharper and better looking than the HR24-500. I just opted to buy a TiVo HD for all my OTA recording, and Im going to keep the slower HR22 and cancel service on my HR24 and send it back.

Running my HR24 thru the new DVDO did not help it's shortcomings. I watched Covert Affairs on the HR22, thru the Duo, then switched over to the HR24 today. It's definitely not the same, and the HR22 PQ on that show looks as sharp as OTA programming.

Im not sure if it's the NXP chip vs Broadcom or what.
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post #4 of 36 Old 08-16-2010, 07:54 PM
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It is definitely the color space issue. The directv box is sending RGB 15 as absolute black, but the display is expecting that 0 be absolute black.

The directv is not triggering whatever logic is in the display to detect the correct colorspace when set to auto. This is not limited to just my display either. It seems any display that can display 0-255 and is set to auto will fail to recognize the correct colorspace.
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post #5 of 36 Old 08-16-2010, 07:57 PM
 
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It's becoming more and more common to see these comments. When I first got the 24, I thought I was just seeing things, but there's an issue for some of us. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. I also don't think the HR24 is as sharp as the older models either.
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post #6 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 06:20 AM
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D* needs to get this corrected by firmware if they're able and soon. In the meantime if I run over Component all will be OK? This is just an HDMI issue right?
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post #7 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 06:29 AM
 
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I did some experimenting with my HR24-500 last night. Now that I am running the DVDO pre/pro, I do not seem to have an issue, do back and forth comparisons. My only guess would be the RGB out was giving my tv an issue, dunno.

Glad I decided to give it another shot with the DUO, because I really missed the speed.
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post #8 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

I did some experimenting with my HR24-500 last night. Now that I am running the DVDO pre/pro, I do not seem to have an issue, do back and forth comparisons. My only guess would be the RGB out was giving my tv an issue, dunno.

Glad I decided to give it another shot with the DUO, because I really missed the speed.

You have some $$, I'm poor and don't have the cashcake to buy a DVDO, so I'm essentially S.O.L. I should try and get my HR20 back eh? And sell my owned HR24-100. I'll miss the speed though.
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 06:47 AM
 
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Do you have the prot plan? I don't really have too many hobbies, and no kids, so electronics is my thing

If you have the prot plan. call in and tell em them HR24 is acting up, and see if they'll sen you another.
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post #10 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

D* needs to get this corrected by firmware if they're able and soon. In the meantime if I run over Component all will be OK? This is just an HDMI issue right?

There's no "issue" to be corrected. You simply need to have your display set up to accept RGB-video input.
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post #11 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 07:30 AM
 
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While I agree, I'll state that it was a bad move on Directv's, or the Chip makers, or the boxmakers, or ALL of their parts. Some folks out there, that don't know about RGB, or internet forums, are gonna be sitting there unhappy with Directv's PQ, when Directv actually has very good PQ.
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post #12 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 08:21 AM
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I think one can just as easily point fingers at display makers who make setup too difficult. In the present day world of cable and sat boxes, DVD and BD players, RGB-video is not uncommon.
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Do you have the prot plan? I don't really have too many hobbies, and no kids, so electronics is my thing

If you have the prot plan. call in and tell em them HR24 is acting up, and see if they'll sen you another.

I do have the PROT plan, but the 1 that is acting up is an "Owned" HR24 with an upgraded 1.5TB drive. And putting in the upgrade i guess i voided any warranty. I was having problems with it before the upgrade, should've handled it then i suppose.
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post #14 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There's no "issue" to be corrected. You simply need to have your display set up to accept RGB-video input.

But still it's sending an RGB out to my HDTV @ 15, rather than "0", in turn compromising my black level shadow details. Maybe, not the first time, I am a li'l perplexed by things like this.
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post #15 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docmal View Post

I

1. Change your TV to look for the correct color space RGB 16-235. sometimes this is called RGB limited as opposed to enhanced.

I have newer LG plasmas, 1 is an '09, the other '10. I don't see an option for this in my menu, which there are plenty. Maybe, it's in the "Service Menu"?
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post #16 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

But still it's sending an RGB out to my HDTV @ 15, rather than "0", in turn compromising my black level shadow details.

Incorrect. Nothing is compromised. RGB-Video is the standard for such devices, not RGB-PC. This has been covered ad nauseum all over these forums. Its a matter of having the display correctly set up and calibrated, and having it set up for RGB-PC (full range) is incorrect unless you use it as a PC monitor. But again, the display should be able to switch between RGB and 4:4:4/4:2:2 input if it's set up right. Consult the dedicated threads for your display for help in finding those settings. It really shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

I have newer LG plasmas, 1 is an '09, the other '10. I don't see an option for this in my menu, which there are plenty. Maybe, it's in the "Service Menu"?

Often these settings are masked by stupid names, again you should consult the display threads.
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post #17 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 09:12 AM
 
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Many tv's dont have an option, and every box I have in my house (except for the new HR24) outputs YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 by default. Which is why I think they coulda made a better choice.
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post #18 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Incorrect. Nothing is compromised. RGB-Video is the standard for such devices, not RGB-PC. This has been covered ad nauseum all over these forums. Its a matter of having the display correctly set up and calibrated, and having it set up for RGB-PC (full range) is incorrect unless you use it as a PC monitor. But again, the display should be able to switch between RGB and 4:4:4/4:2:2 input if it's set up right. Consult the dedicated threads for your display for help in finding those settings. It really shouldn't be a problem.


Yeah, but can't the issue be that tv's have to change the incoming RGB to YCbCr, then back to RGB again? I've read many of them do that.
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post #19 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Often these settings are masked by stupid names, again you should consult the display threads.

Some of the display settings I have:

"Color Gamut" choices are wide or standard.

Would that be the one?

Also have "Black Level", either Hi or Lo.
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post #20 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

Some of the display settings I have:

"Color Gamut" choices are wide or standard.

Would that be the one?

Also have "Black Level", either Hi or Lo.

Again, the display threads are the place to get the right answers. Either of those settings might be relevant.
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post #21 of 36 Old 08-24-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Either of those settings might be relevant.

Black level was the one. I have high(0-255) and lo(16-235). Thanks again for your help. I found it over on a sister set's thread @ AVS. The LG50PK550 thread had it! Some user named "Mauri" gave me the goods.
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post #22 of 36 Old 08-29-2010, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

But again, the display should be able to switch between RGB and 4:4:4/4:2:2 input if it's set up right. Consult the dedicated threads for your display for help in finding those settings. It really shouldn't be a problem.

Glad I found this thread. The moment I replaced my HR20-100 with the HR24-500, I noticed the washed out colors on my Pio 141FD. However, I disagree that this isn't a problem. I have multiple HDMI sources connected to my receiver with a single HDMI-out going to the display. I want to leave the display set to auto-detect color space and not have to configure each source component to output RGB 16-235 (not even sure I can do that on all of my sources). This won't work if the HR24 is advertising it's outputting RGB 0-255 but is, in fact, outputting RGB 16-235.

The HR24 needs to be fixed.

Mike
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post #23 of 36 Old 09-28-2010, 08:08 AM
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Glad I found this thread. The moment I replaced my HR20-100 with the HR24-500, I noticed the washed out colors on my Pio 141FD. However, I disagree that this isn't a problem. I have multiple HDMI sources connected to my receiver with a single HDMI-out going to the display. I want to leave the display set to auto-detect color space and not have to configure each source component to output RGB 16-235 (not even sure I can do that on all of my sources). This won't work if the HR24 is advertising it's outputting RGB 0-255 but is, in fact, outputting RGB 16-235.

The HR24 needs to be fixed.

Mike

I have the same problem as the above with the KRP-500M, 5 HDMI sources to 1 HDMI input, its not possible to run it at 16-235 all the time. They need to update the firmware, even the popcorn hour which has notoriously horrible firmware can send proper information to the tv.

Further research, apparently its a bug of the tv when in auto mode any RGB input that is detected is assumed to be 0-255.
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post #24 of 36 Old 09-29-2010, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by griffinz View Post

I have the same problem as the above with the KRP-500M, 5 HDMI sources to 1 HDMI input, its not possible to run it at 16-235 all the time. They need to update the firmware, even the popcorn hour which has notoriously horrible firmware can send proper information to the tv.

Further research, apparently its a bug of the tv when in auto mode any RGB input that is detected is assumed to be 0-255.

Came up with a solution using an 1x2 hdmi splitter between the AMP and TV inputs. 1 Input set to RGB 16-235, I wish directv would just add color space choice to the HR24... crosses fingers.
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post #25 of 36 Old 10-20-2010, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffinz View Post

Came up with a solution using an 1x2 hdmi splitter between the AMP and TV inputs. 1 Input set to RGB 16-235, I wish directv would just add color space choice to the HR24... crosses fingers.

I'm stuck with 16-235 on my cable STB, too. I can use that setting on the TV and my cable and PS3 look great. I then I have to switch back to AUTO or else the Wii picture is all red
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post #26 of 36 Old 10-25-2010, 08:24 AM
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That's not a bad solution Griffinz.

This seems to be most prevelant in setups that contain a Pioneer plasma. Anyone here experience this on a set that isnt a Pio?
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post #27 of 36 Old 03-23-2011, 01:59 PM
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My new hr24 500 box is causing this effect on my KURO has it been resolved yet? can you tell me what to do?
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post #28 of 36 Old 03-23-2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

I did some experimenting with my HR24-500 last night. Now that I am running the DVDO pre/pro, I do not seem to have an issue, do back and forth comparisons. My only guess would be the RGB out was giving my tv an issue, dunno.

Glad I decided to give it another shot with the DUO, because I really missed the speed.

huh? what is a dvdo pre op DUO?

Help, my kuro looks like crap, driving me crazy
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post #29 of 36 Old 03-24-2011, 01:47 PM
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I have resolved by manually changing to rgb 235
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post #30 of 36 Old 09-12-2011, 10:39 PM
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i just ordered this receiver. Is this issues still happening, or has it been fixed by a firmware update.

Thanks
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