JVC 30K with Integrated OTS ATSC tuner... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 04-01-2002, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Why didn't JVC put an ATSC OTA HD tuner/demodulator in the 30K?

Will an ATSC tuner demod be added in later revs?

How about dual Component/RGB outputs to support more HD projectors?

The cost for an OTA ATSC tuner and demod should me minimal, as the MPEG encoder/decoder is already in the 30K. After demodulation, the ATSC bitstream could simply be recorded to the D-VHS tape.

It seems silly to require an external HDTV ATSC tuner box with firewire to record OTA material, given the nearly complete feature set of the JVC 30K already. ATSC tuner cards were expected on the PC for ~$150 (ATSC tuner without MPEG2 decoder).

Are any D-VHS licensees planning to integrate a simple OTA ATSC tuner/demodulator?

This, coupled with a ~$700 street price, would guarantee the success of D-VHS.
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post #2 of 16 Old 04-01-2002, 09:58 PM
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JVC says they will offer an OTA ATSC tuner that connects via Firewire. But no plans or details have come to light. The D-Theater is clearly not ready to go to market just yet. No OTA HD support, no DVI. It's unfortunate that people have spent so much on less than a whole product.

A year or two from now we'll see whether it has grown up and attracted some compelling content. And whether it gets to the $700 price point that you suggest.
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post #3 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The omission of a simple ATSC OTA tuner/demodulator seems the single biggest design blunder of the JVC 30K.

I want to timeshift CSI, PBS programs, and ABC movies now!

IMHO, if JVC put an ATSC OTA tuner in the 30K, in addition to the current analog NTSC OTA/cable tuners, while keeping the street price at ~$1300, D-VHS would take off like wildfire.

Do the math. A JVC 30K with these tuners would be a DTC-100 (sans Direct-TV, which I don't care about) with 720p output capability. Basically, it would be include a ~$500 HD receiver, and would become the standard HD tuner box overnight.

It would be like getting an HD tape recorder/player for $1300 - $500 = $800!

I would sell my DTC-100's in an instant, and use 30K's to drive my HD displays and record as well...
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post #4 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 07:35 AM
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I sure am not waiting. Having a great time driving my jvc's with my 169time dtc100's. No problemo

dave
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 10:31 AM
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Including the tuner would be the grand all marketing decision. Why they didn't do this to start is beyond me. Maybe they wanted to get the deck out there and beat HD-DVD at any cost?

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post #6 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rgb
The omission of a simple ATSC OTA tuner/demodulator seems the single biggest design blunder of the JVC 30K.
I disagree. All that would get is the ability to do off air. What is needed
is the ability to do that, and to timeshift premium satellite channels
such as HBO-HD and HDNET. This properly means another, separate
settop box with firewire out.

1080i for everything.

Let em fight for the right HD-DVD
format !

SDTV for security cameras.
Everything else: HDTV.

Let Jack Valenti stay in SDTV.
He is too damm ugly for HDTV.
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post #7 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 02:36 PM
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Which is what we hope the 169time product will do soon.

dave
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post #8 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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re: "I disagree. All that would get is the ability to do off air. "

!!!

Look in the Home Computer forums here. Many, many HT enthusiasts are buying ~$400 PC HD tuner cards that have "only" OTA HD capability. Of course, these cards can record to hard disk, too.

All I need is "off air" recording. If I want HD movies, I'll rent or buy D-VHS versions.

Not seeing the need for a basic OTA HD tuner integrated into all D-VHS machines is like not expecting analog VHS VCR's to have analog cable tuners!

My first VHS VCR, purchased in 1983, didn't have a cable TV tuner. At that time, no VCR had a cable tuner. If the manufacturers had taken a similar attitude then, analog VCR's would never had added cable tuners- "Just use your cable box" they could have said...


An HD recording device *must* have at least OTA HD tuning capability.
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-02-2002, 11:08 PM
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I agree with you, Rgb. Besides, assuming that they keep the firewire input(s), you could still add an appropriate FW-capable satellite tuner/STB later (or retain a modified DTC-100 if you already have one) if you really want the satellite HD recording capabiilty which, of course, would be in addition to the ability to watch one HD source while recording another...

-Aaron
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post #10 of 16 Old 04-03-2002, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Babbster-

The analogy with VCR and TV development through the 1980's is so clear, that I don't know why so many fail to "get it".

Most (all?) TV's and VCRs through the 80's had "only" OTA analog tuners.

Analog cable tuners weren't added until the late 80's- and these only tuned analog cable channels through 39 or so. As the number of cable channels increased, you had to buy a new VCR with an expanded cable channel range tuner! This happened through at least the early 90's.

Tuner evolution seems clear:

OTA NTSC analog => Cable NTSC analog => OTA ATSC digital => Cable digital HD (when/if cable companies come up with a modulation standard).
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post #11 of 16 Old 04-04-2002, 08:38 PM
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I fully agree that an ATSC tuner would have been a strong selling feature for JVC's D-VHS VCR.
However, in my humble opinion, especially for us in Canada where there is absolutely NO OTA HD, HD component inputs + a digital audio in would make this piece EXTREMELY VALUABLE.
Obviously, it would increase the cost, yet, it would be a godsend for so many people who only have component HD outputs!(JVC, I hope you're listening!)
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post #12 of 16 Old 04-14-2002, 09:08 PM
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Spex,
In that case I better stop watching Manotick transmitter in Ottawa(67-1)
:) :)

Ron
"Your priorities will be different-its the weighting that counts!-only if its done by FET!"

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post #13 of 16 Old 04-14-2002, 09:49 PM
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What does it stand for?

Stupid Question

:)

Sorry
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post #14 of 16 Old 04-14-2002, 10:34 PM
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Over The Air.
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post #15 of 16 Old 04-15-2002, 06:58 AM
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I once received a response from another CE manufacturer claiming that the reason they didn't make an HD VCR with an ATSC tuner was concern over possible copyright infringement. Maybe that is JVC's excuse as well, but I can't believe there is any real technical reason why the tuners could not have been included in the Mitsubishi and JVC decks.
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post #16 of 16 Old 04-15-2002, 09:51 AM
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I don't buy the argument that they are trying to avoid copyright infringement. If that were going to be the case, then a court would have to rule that all manufacturers of NTSC tuner-equipped VCRs would be guilty as well, despite court rulings that time-shifting OTA content is quite legal and a consumer's right. I don't recall reading anywhere that a court has differentiated between copyrighted analog content versus copyrighted digital content. In fact, the [formerly] Diamond Rio in playing MP3s (digital files "ripped" from digital content clearly copyrighted) was ruled as being a fair use of technology, so an ATSC tuner-equipped VCR (or any other type of recording device) should be no different.

All of this changes of course if digital television data is encrypted because the DMCA gets in the way of decrypting that content for the purpose of recording if the encryption was intended to protect it from said recording. I'm not sure how a court would rule once someone was prosecuted for evading that kind of technology in order to allow time-shifting, though I would hope that a court would see "the light" and start dismantling the DMCA through judicial review.

Bah! I hate having to think so damn much about the law! Let me get Buffy in HD and let me record it once so I can watch it later and then delete it! Double bah!

-Aaron
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