Official Moxi Hard Drive Replacement Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 507 Old 01-25-2014, 10:02 AM
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1 TB is still twice as much as the 500 GB that I pulled out and replaced with my first replacement 1 GB... I think the problem I have is I just a spare 1 GB drive I had laying around that was used for Mac time machine backups and not geared towards DVR recording.

The Amazon one looks like it would work nice but if someone knows of a better drive / deal I am open to suggestions.

Thx.
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post #452 of 507 Old 01-28-2014, 06:40 AM
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Regarding G4L, is it possible to clone a drive from a moxi that is working and place it in a moxi that is not. Regardless of the cablecard re-pairing that would need to take place.... has anyone tried this to resurrect a moxi that just won't 4FP?

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post #453 of 507 Old 01-29-2014, 09:55 PM
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Yes...that's what this thread is about.

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post #454 of 507 Old 01-29-2014, 10:28 PM
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OK. I've read about people cloning drives to use in the same Moxi (Moxi A to Moxi A) with the same hardware id in this thread but I didn't see anyone talk about cloning Moxi A to use in Moxi B. Thanks for confirming that works!
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post #455 of 507 Old 01-31-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesko View Post

This is an update to my last post over 6 months ago. I sincerely hope this post helps other moxi users out there who are a little nervous about fixing their own moxi device. If you read my past posts I own two moxi dvr devices each of which have had hard drives fail and replaced 3 times each. the last two at $250 a pop and they lasted less than 18 months each.

I had a difficult time at first following the procedure listed in this thread regarding installing a new hard drive and forcing the moxi to download the new software. There are a few listings in this thread that talk about cloning the old moxi drive not to replace a defective drive, but as preventative measure prior to the moxi drive failing. the idea is to install a superior hard drive like a server grade drive or a surveillance drive which unlike regular computer hard drives are rated for continuous use like a DVR.

There are no suggestions posted that I could find about cloning a bad moxi drive. As a last resort after repeatedly failing to get the moxi to install the software to a new drive with the procedure listed at the beginning of this thread. I tried the following and it work wonderfully and it was surprisingly easy and straight forward.

I took a new Seagate SV35 1000GB drive which I had seen in numerous postings worked as a replacement for other contributors. Removed my moxi seagate pipeline ST3500 500GB drive that was unable to boot no matter what I tried. Put them both in a spare pc with a CD. I downloaded a program listed elsewhere in this form called G4L, which is an image file that with Nero burn or other burn software, creates a Linux bootable CD that clones and partitions drives. I used Nero to burn the image to CD. took the CD and inserted it into the spare computer, (It could have also been my main computer and cause no harm, but the spare was easier for me.)

You must make sure during the computer boot process you hit the delete key or whatever key your system used to go to bios and setting and change the boot sequence to make sure the CD is the first boot device, not the HDD. Then after you save your settings and exit, the computer finishes the boot process and boots into linux on the CD. Like yes or enter thru a bunch of descriptions and accepting the risks you eventually get to a screen that allows you to either go directly to all the linux hocus pocus code which I know nothing about, or simply type in G4L which takes you to an easy select the box series of screens, you will only need to use the arrow keys and the enter key to advance thru most of the screen until you reach the drive selection screens, in which you select with the space bar.

You first select between various options, and choose RAW as the process in which you will be using the most complete process to clone the drive. In another screen you will select clone, which will take you to a menu which will list a series of options to select. the first box is select source drive, while that choice is highlighted (you use the arrow keys in this screen to move up and down the choice boxes), that is the original moxi drive you want to copy the software from. Select (highlight) that line and hit enter, it takes you to a screen in which you see both hard drives, in my case the 500GB moxi and the 1000GB new drive, It also lists the CD. To select the proper drive use the up or down arrow key to move to and highlight the smaller drive you know has the software and in this case (DO NOT HIT ENTER) read the instructions, it say hit the space bar to select the drive. Hitting the space bar creates a *in front of that line, now when you hit the enter button it will take you back to the previous selections screen. If you hit the enter button without selecting an option with the space bar you get hung up in Linux code and need to reboot and start over.

You are now back in the select options screen arrow down to select destination drive, the new drive you want to clone to. Hit enter and again use the space bar to select the new drive, then hit enter. You go back to the selection screen and arrow down to clone, hit enter, then wait, about an hour in my case. You will see the progress bar as the cloning takes place. when the process is done, you will be back in the select options screen where you will arrow down to reboot/exit option click that and you will go to another screen where you choose to turn the computer off. When off remove the new drive and go install it in the moxi.

Now it gets exciting, no more press 4 arrow buttons and try to get it to load. Just plug everything in the power cord and all other connections, network cable, hdmi, usb if you are with cox like I am. turn on your TV and watch the moxi sign appear and do everything else itself. It begins to check the hard. Yes the HDD and software was messed up and the cloning process copied the messed up part too, but now you have a new drive that can be fixed, before you did not. within 15 minutes of self repair everything is working fine and I have the added benefit of all my recorded shows. I am not a computer geek and I can not tell you why this worked so well, I suspect that more than enough of the software was not corrupt so all the internet settings needed to connect thru my server were intact and these moxi devices seem to have the wonderful ability to self heal as long as it can successfully connect to its "mother" at moxi via the internet.

Like most users I love this moxi, I do wish it had a better GUI browser and could stream content, but blue rays do a good job at that and so are newer TVs. For recording Cable TV I have not seen anything I like better, and now i can protect my investment by being able to repair my moxi's myself at a very minimal cost. Now if only the cable companies can keep their cable cards working.

Hope this was helpful and you keep your moxi going.

Thanks for the detailed instructions, Nesko.

I have incorporated them into the HD Replacement Instructions linked in my signature. I also saw that someone had linked G4L instructions with screen shots, so I added the screen shots as well, but I think it was older, as they were showing how to do it on IDE drives. Based on your description above, it sounds like G4L has been changed slightly.

Anyway, if you have some time to check out the doc, I would appreciate any input.

I am almost finished with an Excel document that will have details of all the HDD's tested in this thread; I should have that posted next week. That should prove interesting to be able to dissect all the various data points I have in there.

Mark
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post #456 of 507 Old 01-31-2014, 04:13 PM
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You all do realize that if you clone a 500GB image to a 1000GB drive, you still only have a 500GB drive, right? 

 

You might want to post the Linux instructions in your guide as well for those who have access to a Linux machine or Linux "live" disks.  The dd utility is identical to the process used by G4L, and requires no extra installations.

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post #457 of 507 Old 01-31-2014, 07:33 PM
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My moxi's are still up and running well with the new drives. I do have one question for the computer Geeks out there. In the Moxi you can see how much of the hard drive space is used and how much is available. It gives a % of used HD space. I expected to see a significant change in that when I went from the 500GB supplied by Moxi to the 1TB I installed. But see no difference. That leads me to think that either the Moxi is not seeing the extra storage space, or that when I cloned the old drive G4L made a 500Gb partition on the drive making the extra space unavailable. Is there a way to check that partition size and if it is only 500GB is there a way to add to the partition without disturbing the content on the original partition. If this were a Windows system I know how to do that, but I am clueless about Linux.

Thanks for your help.
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post #458 of 507 Old 01-31-2014, 07:46 PM
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Unlikely that you have access to the full 1000G.  The partitions appear to be encrypted, not even recognized by the Linux partition managers (fdisk and gpt).

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post #459 of 507 Old 01-31-2014, 09:34 PM
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If you clone a 500gb image to a 1tb drive, you get a 500gb partition on a 1tb drive. The only way to get the full 1tb is to have the Moxi format the 1tb drive with 4FP.

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post #460 of 507 Old 01-31-2014, 10:13 PM
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  • Moxi - 3 Tuner
  • Hitachi 0F12117 (0F12117MNL5C00C15)
    Capacity: 2TB
    Firmware: 5C0
  • Success

 

I wouldn't wish Seagate/Maxtor trash on my worst enemy.

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post #461 of 507 Old 02-01-2014, 12:05 PM
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I had the same idea about cloning the failing drive, and was happy to see your solution. However when I followed every thing you did, my drive had too many errors to complete cloning using G4L program. At the screen where you select RAW the are two other options, I went to the 3rd option, I forgot what it was called, tools or something like that. After I selected it the next screen came up with several Options, one which is called I- ddrescue, then selected source and target drives, then initiated the rescue process. I used the same drive as you did, only I did partition  and format ext3 the drive first. (I did that for any external drives that I add externally to my DVR and had no problem getting them to work, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to do the same for the replacement drive.) It took about 24 hours to copy the 500gb drive to the new drive. There was no ending to running this process, so after I saw more than 500 gb processed, and the program was copying the trim on the disk I terminated the process. Then I put the new drive in my 3 tuner Moxi box. Held my breath, reconnected everything, power on and to my relief it came back to life. All my recorded programs were there, all my channels where there was nothing to do but erase some of the recorded programs that had errors form the old drive. Thanks for steering me in the right direct. By the way I used AOMEI PARTITION ASSISTANT TO partition AND format the drive. Gparted will also do the same job. I hope other will see this an give it a try.

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post #462 of 507 Old 02-03-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianko View Post

You all do realize that if you clone a 500GB image to a 1000GB drive, you still only have a 500GB drive, right? 

You might want to post the Linux instructions in your guide as well for those who have access to a Linux machine or Linux "live" disks.  The dd utility is identical to the process used by G4L, and requires no extra installations.

I have added the instructions you posted, and will update the document shortly I have updated the document linked in my signature.

Mark
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post #463 of 507 Old 02-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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post #464 of 507 Old 02-03-2014, 04:11 PM
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Slick!  If only I had known about this 2 years ago...

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post #465 of 507 Old 02-03-2014, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianko View Post

Slick!  If only I had known about this 2 years ago...

I know; been thinking about this for a long time. It would be interesting to get folks to report in about drive longevity. My Samsung has been in there for 23 months, and it is still going, but has started to exhibit quirky series recording behavior. I bought another replacement (for half the price I paid two years ago), and am thinking to clone it with G4L.

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post #466 of 507 Old 03-09-2014, 10:48 AM
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Not totally correct. If you also add and external 1 TB drive you will find that you will have the full 2 TB. Moxi when formats the external drive it will also include the 500 GB unused portion of the internal drive. Cloning does save not having to repair the cable card, and saves all your recorded TV series. Billc

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post #467 of 507 Old 03-09-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billcor62 View Post

Not totally correct. If you also add and external 1 TB drive you will find that you will have the full 2 TB. Moxi when formats the external drive it will also include the 500 GB unused portion of the internal drive. Cloning does save not having to repair the cable card, and saves all your recorded TV series. Billc

Wow . . . can someone clarify more about this?

I hate to jinx myself (again), but I'm having some minor issues with the internal HDD in our living room Moxi. The internal drive is approaching four years, and I'd like to replace it, but as hard as I've been trying, I'm not succeeding at getting all the stuff recorded on that drive watched. I hadn't thought about cloning the drive until I'd read Nesko's post, who made it sound like something I could handle. Previously, the main stumbling point for me was thinking cloning was only for those with a good understanding of Linux, which I definitely don't have even a minimal understanding of. Nesko's explanation was clear enough that I think it's something I could handle.

The second stumbling block was not wanting to lose drive space. We have external drives connected to both Moxis & still occasionally run short of space (the Olympics were such a time), so when I replace that internal HDD, I want to go with a larger-than-stock drive like I did with the other Moxi. If I'm correctly understanding, Billcor62's post makes it sound like adding a new external drive would recapture that space?

Also, as long as I'm asking, does anyone know if it's possible to use G4L to clone an existing external Moxi drive?


Thanks,
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post #468 of 507 Old 03-09-2014, 06:38 PM
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Yes you can use g4L, but its not the cloning function that I used to perform the cloning. It was a copy from a defective drive function or something like that, maybe I mention the function in an earlier post of mine. I have a terrible time with my short term memory (77years old). Anyway be prepared to have it run for 24 hours if you are cloning the 500GB drive. I had the same problem your having but I would not wait any longer because once the drive fails you have to start from scratch. I did the transfer to a 1 TB drive that I had formatted to extend 4 (3 or 4) also formatted  the external drive before attaching to my Moxi. After you put you new Cloned drive back in the system every thing should work you will also have copied some of the defective data, but all you programs will be there, and when that data is replaced with new data all will be good. When you go to add the external drive I believe you will lose the data on you external drives when they get formatted, but you will recover the 500GB on the internal drive, but only as long as the external drive is attached. I hope this helps, Billcor62

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post #469 of 507 Old 03-10-2014, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post

when I replace that internal HDD, I want to go with a larger-than-stock drive like I did with the other Moxi. If I'm correctly understanding, Billcor62's post makes it sound like adding a new external drive would recapture that space?

This is contrary to everything I have seen.

No matter what size the internal drive is, a copy/clone of a Moxi 500gb drive will only format the first 500gb of it. The remainder is not accessible.

Any external drive is totally separate.

Operating as Bill described, an internal drive with a Moxi 500gb “internal” partition and a 500gb “external” partition that is logically connected to an external drive sounds like the worst of all evils.

If (or rather when) the internal drive fails it will take both the internal and external drive images out. Losing all data.

I still believe the smallest possible internal with a large RAID external is the best setup. The RAID drive never loses data and can be used without data loss across an internal drive replacement. The internal drive will fail, due to the constant writing to it. The larger the internal drive the more data at risk when it fails.

A previously used external drive can be plugged into a Moxi with a freshly formatted internal drive and the old programs on the external will still be there.

I have data on an external 2tb RAID box that is 3.5 years old. It has survived two internal drives and one drive failure within itself, I just plugged in a new drive and in 22 hours the array was fully protected again.

My experiments to connect a RAID enclosure as the internal drive failed on a two tuner Moxi. It would not keep up with two recordings and a playback with skip forward/reverse at the same time. The same array is fine as an external drive.

Robert
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post #470 of 507 Old 03-10-2014, 08:00 PM
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I assure it does work. All one has to do is view the storage space before and after attaching the external drive. Its a simple fix. I'm sure your raid configuration is a more robust solution if you want to go through all that effort. I already cloned a second drive and have put it aside for when the new drive fails in the future. I like keeping thing simple at my age.

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post #471 of 507 Old 03-11-2014, 01:46 AM
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@giomania: i dont show the wd hdds that i had success with on the doc

@billcor62: this is contrary to what we've seen. if i understand correctly, your internal was almost gone and you manually stop the transfer of data to new internal hdd on the 3rd option in g4l. it also seems youre willing to lose whats on your external hdds this way. it sounds like data that was corrupt will become corrupt again soon. im not saying its wrong but good luck.
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post #472 of 507 Old 03-11-2014, 05:36 PM
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All one has do is erase those programs with the corrupted data and record over them. You should understand when my drive began to fail it was a hardware failure, with the new drive the data will not get corrupted until the new drive fails, hopefully it be years from now. Everything is working like new, and I have access to all hard drive memory. This has nothing to do with luck. Its all about the reliability of a hard drive that it in continuous use, therefore, one should select hard drives that are rated for continuous use.

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post #473 of 507 Old 03-16-2014, 08:32 AM
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Is there anyone out there who provides a Moxi hard drive replacement service? I love my 3 tuner Moxi, but after several "factory" replacements with inferior drives, I would like to get someone to do the upgrade with a quality 1 TB drive. I do not feel competent enuf to do the upgrade myself, and would like to find someone who has successfully accomplished this. My Moxi is again showing that it requires frequent resets, and I'm sure it would facilitate the upgrade to have a working Moxi to work with. Please message me if you may have any ideas as to how I can get this done.

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post #474 of 507 Old 03-16-2014, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadAttitude View Post

Is there anyone out there who provides a Moxi hard drive replacement service? I love my 3 tuner Moxi, but after several "factory" replacements with inferior drives, I would like to get someone to do the upgrade with a quality 1 TB drive. I do not feel competent enuf to do the upgrade myself, and would like to find someone who has successfully accomplished this. My Moxi is again showing that it requires frequent resets, and I'm sure it would facilitate the upgrade to have a working Moxi to work with. Please message me if you may have any ideas as to how I can get this done.

Carl, I'd like to assure you that it's probably something you really can do yourself, but do be aware that you will lose all shows you've got recorded the same way you lost them with the factory replacements. I'm a "middle-aged woman" who isn't a tech guru at all, and I recently replaced mine without trouble -- the most confusing part of the whole thing for me was making sure I purchased a correct drive smile.gif Mark (giomania) has a couple of easy-to-understand links in his sig that are extremely helpful, and I'd further suggest reading through the 16 pages of this thread & making notes of anything you think might be helpful, although I did that before reading Mark's stuff, so perhaps reading everything isn't necessary.

Plus, the forum -- in my experience -- is very helpful at responding if you run into any issues.

Sorry I don't know of any services that will do it for you, but I really think you'll be surprised at how simple the process is to do yourself if you just give it a try. Perhaps we could help resolve your concerns if you let us know which part(s) of the process seem overwhelming?
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post #475 of 507 Old 03-17-2014, 12:04 AM
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Is there anyone out there who provides a Moxi hard drive replacement service?

If you can plug in an HDMI cable and have ever used a screwdriver in your life, you can swap out the Moxi drive.

It's less complicated than setting up a CableCARD and connecting a tuning adapter, and you've probably had that experience!

Check out the recent images at the top of this page and you can see what you are dealing with. There's nothing complex in a Moxi. It's almost frighteningly primitive.


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post #476 of 507 Old 03-17-2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

If you can plug in an HDMI cable and have ever used a screwdriver in your life, you can swap out the Moxi drive.

It's less complicated than setting up a CableCARD and connecting a tuning adapter, and you've probably had that experience!

Check out the recent images at the top of this page and you can see what you are dealing with. There's nothing complex in a Moxi. It's almost frighteningly primitive.

So I can certainly handle a screwdriver and plug in cables, but do I need to first initialize the drive (and how?) and/or clone (and how?) or just plug in the new drive and the Moxi does this all? Can you point to the best thread to give step-by-step instructions for a new-be?
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post #477 of 507 Old 03-17-2014, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BadAttitude View Post

So I can certainly handle a screwdriver and plug in cables, but do I need to first initialize the drive (and how?) and/or clone (and how?) or just plug in the new drive and the Moxi does this all? Can you point to the best thread to give step-by-step instructions for a new-be?

Check out the second post in this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1303511/official-moxi-hard-drive-replacement-thread#post_19786255

After screwing in the hard drive and plugging in the SATA cable you just need to activate the four-finger-press and the drive will be initialized and Moxi OS installed.

Cloning your existing drive adds another layer and the issue that your new drive may be stuck at the current size. Other people on AVS have had more success with that so searching this thread and the general Moxi thread, or waiting for someone to come along with an answer would be your best option.
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post #478 of 507 Old 03-21-2014, 09:30 AM
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I ordered and received my hard drive replacement for my 3 tuner Moxi: Seagate ST2000VX000. I finished the install in a few seconds, I followed the start-up instruction provided by VisionOn and everything came back, including my Charter Cable card. Started reprogramming shows immediately and the update was a total success. Thanks much to all those who provided the guidance and encouragement.

Carl biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #479 of 507 Old 04-06-2014, 11:37 AM
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Has anyone tried the WD Purple drives? Looks like they're made for CCTV applications recording 24/7.
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The smart choice for surveillance

WD Purple Surveillance Storage offers exclusive AllFrame technology to bring you premium reliability and peace-of-mind when installing your home or small to medium business security system. WD Purple’s exclusive firmware upgrades work with ATA streaming to reduce error pixilation and video interruptions that occur when desktop hard drives are incorrectly used as storage in security systems. WD Purple Surveillance Storage is built for 24/7, always-on, high-definition surveillance security systems that use up to eight hard drives and up to 32 cameras.

Choose a drive that is designed and engineered for home and business surveillance systems and enjoy the peace-of-mind you can only get from a surveillance-class hard drive.

http://wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=1210
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post #480 of 507 Old 04-09-2014, 04:56 PM
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3-Tuner Moxi Model MR-1500T3
Samsung 830 SSD 128GB – Internal w/ 2.5” to 3.5” drive adapter.

4TB in RAID 1 - using eSATA External Enclosure
SSD Firmware ?
*** SUCCESS!!! ****

Interesting story here for anyone with a “Starting Services” message or stuck at startup.  My Moxi, purchased Sept. 2010, has been stuck at “Starting Services” and nothing budged it.  Turns out the issue was two-fold:

 

1) Somehow the Moxi refused to like my network anymore, even though it has been running on the same 2 switches and router for over 3 years!

2) The Original HD seems to exhibit some issues, but is NOT dead. I had it for 43 months so I believe that is a record.


I found out after 3 days of testing that the MOXI is more finicky about the Internet than the HD you try to use!   All failed attempts at 4FP to start the re-install process (when pressing the keys correctly) or re-installation problems are mostly due to Internet issues!  You should plug your Moxi in the Cable or DSL modem, DIRECTLY!
 

Once the Internet connectivity issue was identified and solved (I connected directly to the router without another switch in between) even the original HD worked again.  However I did not feel comfortable continuing to use it, so as a test I puled a spare Samsung 830 Series 128GB SSD and figured it could not hurt to try it, as I did not see anyone else post about it, either way.  Here is a review of the drive:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4520/samsung_830_series_128gb_solid_state_drive_review/index.html


Also it seems you do not need to count or wait, I plugged the Moxi in, and almost immediately, maybe a second later, did the 4FP with a washer.  I also almost instantly got the "Welcome and Initialization" notice screen, after the MOXI logo came back the 2nd time.  I pressed “OK” and “Install Initiated” was on screen with nothing else for about 20 minutes.  You can see the LED Activity light (amber) blinking really fast, thats how you know it is working.  If it blinks slow or intermittent, you're just wasting your time.  The Moxi then rebooted and began initial setup as if new & out of the box. People that had this process take more than 40 minutes or for whom some drives or the re-install did not work, should connect directly to their cable model or DSL router, and re-try, while watching the amber activity light.

 

Finally, I saw that some of you do not think using an SSD for the OS and local/internal recordings is a good idea due to wear of the SSD, but a nice article posted on Tech Report shows that these SSD’s are overprovisioned and capable of writing over 500TB of data without failing. Here is the article if anyone is interested: 

http://techreport.com/review/25889/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-500tb-update
 

For me this is the best setup as an SSD failure only makes 120GB disappear and not 500-2000GB as with with a large HD.  And since I also use an external RAID 1 enclosure with 2 x 4TB HD's for data safety, I have no worries, and the Moxi seems to love this setup.
 

Best of luck and hope this helps everyone struggling with dead HD's or Internet connectivity issues.

 

Steve.

 

P.S.  In case anyone was curious, this is the RAID1 Enclosure I used externally of the Moxi, with 2 x 4TB Hitachi Ultrastar Drives:  http://shop.akitio.com/products/taurus-super-s3-lcm?referer=null Just that mine is the black version.

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