Official Moxi Hard Drive Replacement Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 738 Old 08-13-2016, 04:11 PM
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OK, will do
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post #722 of 738 Old 08-17-2016, 05:06 PM
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OK the cloning went well taking 30 hours or so with an old laptop and the drives in a 4 bay enclosure I have. I had cleared everything off an old Hitachi drive I had music on. I also tried the 4fp on that drive and, again, I could not get it to work.

After the clone I thought it was still the same as I couldn't get any recorded programs to play. But when I got home from work I tried again and saw I had very few channels and my tuning adapter was blinking. I called TW and they sent a refresh signal to the Moxi and tuning adapter. After rebooting everything was back working and though I thought the recordings still weren't playing, suddenly one played, and amazingly it is back to normal again.

I did notice I had all my recorded shows saved, but my series recordings were no longer scheduled and I had to reset them.

Guess I 'm going to take the 6 tuner enhanced dvr back to TW. It's an Arris way better than the old Motorolas they used to use. Very snappy. But we already pay around $25 a month for one out in the living room. I don't feel like paying for two.

Dave
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post #723 of 738 Old 08-17-2016, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dbrons View Post
After the clone I thought it was still the same as I couldn't get any recorded programs to play. But when I got home from work I tried again and saw I had very few channels and my tuning adapter was blinking. I called TW and they sent a refresh signal to the Moxi and tuning adapter. After rebooting everything was back working and though I thought the recordings still weren't playing, suddenly one played, and amazingly it is back to normal again.
That stupid tuning adapter. Things would be so much simpler without TWC's idiotic kludge box.

Usually you only need to call for a TA hit if the CableCARD is new. Typically when the TA starts blinking I have to do the tuning adapter ritual and eveything comes back.

Unplug power from TA.
Unplug USB from Moxi.
Pull CableCARD.
Plug power into TA and wait forever for a steady LED lock.
Plug USB and card back in.
Reboot Moxi.

At least you are back up and running again. It's a long process but hopefully something you won't have to do again for a long time.


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post #724 of 738 Old 08-17-2016, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dbrons View Post
OK the cloning went well taking 30 hours or so with an old laptop and the drives in a 4 bay enclosure I have. I had cleared everything off an old Hitachi drive I had music on. I also tried the 4fp on that drive and, again, I could not get it to work.

After the clone I thought it was still the same as I couldn't get any recorded programs to play. But when I got home from work I tried again and saw I had very few channels and my tuning adapter was blinking. I called TW and they sent a refresh signal to the Moxi and tuning adapter. After rebooting everything was back working and though I thought the recordings still weren't playing, suddenly one played, and amazingly it is back to normal again.

I did notice I had all my recorded shows saved, but my series recordings were no longer scheduled and I had to reset them.

Guess I 'm going to take the 6 tuner enhanced dvr back to TW. It's an Arris way better than the old Motorolas they used to use. Very snappy. But we already pay around $25 a month for one out in the living room. I don't feel like paying for two.

Dave
good news! I'm glad you didn't give up.
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post #725 of 738 Old 08-18-2016, 03:47 PM
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I wanted to share that I was just able to successfully use the 4FP to install a new drive in one of my 3-tuner Moxis. I was a little nervous because Dave (dbrons) and rsax777 in the other Moxi thread reported not being able to get the 4FP method to work post-8/12/2016. The 4FP worked flawlessly for me, and as expected, I had to call TWC to re-pair my CC with the new drive, which was painless and quick.

For other TWC folks, I also want to share that pairing/re-pairing can apparently be done via live chat now -- I did it over the phone, but the CC dude explained the other options to me. The live chat has the same hours as the CC phone number (until 11 PM Eastern). There's also an online form that can be used, but that's not instantaneous the was a phone call or live chat is.

Dave, I'm glad you were able to get cloning to work after the 4FP failed! I still plan to try cloning my failing drive, but after my failed attempt using g4l the other night (I was confused by the initial screen so aborted), the most important thing for me right now was to get the Moxi working reliably. Unlike you, TWC rented me a crappy (IMHO) 2-tuner Motorola DVR -- here, you can only get the Arris box if one goes for the "whole house" DVR package.

Dave, do you mind clarifying for me the size of the failing drive you cloned? My failing drive is a 2TB, so it would be helpful for me to know if the 30 hours it took was for a 1 TB drive or 2 TB drive -- so I know what to expect time-wise. That's the other wrinkle for me: what I did the other night was disconnect all the internal drives in my PC & then hooked up the source & destination drives. It's going to be tough (not impossible, but tough) for my main workhorse computer to be unavailable for a day or two. Ordinarily, I would just commandeer my dh's computer for the cloning, but this is a busy time of year for him with the new academic year starting on Monday, so I'll have to use mine -- I just need to work on getting my computer schedule cleared again for a couple of days.

Huge relief here that the 4FP worked & that my Moxi should be reliable again! I've not yet powered back up the external drive that lives with that Moxi which I had disconnected a week ago to try to determine if the problem was with a failing internal drive, a failing external drive, and/or a failing enclosure. After disconnecting the external drive, the flakiness continued, so I was able to rule out the external drive or enclosure as sole causes of the misbehaving Moxi. Before hooking the external drive back up, I want to do some using of the new internal drive to try to make sure all is working as it should.

Thanks,
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post #726 of 738 Old 08-18-2016, 04:30 PM
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Dave, do you mind clarifying for me the size of the failing drive you cloned? My failing drive is a 2TB, so it would be helpful for me to know if the 30 hours it took was for a 1 TB drive or 2 TB drive -- so I know what to expect time-wise.
Don't forget, cloning time is also related to your hardware.

1TB for me took about 9 hours using internal SATA III ports on reasonably fast motherboard.


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post #727 of 738 Old 08-18-2016, 08:30 PM
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Don't forget, cloning time is also related to your hardware.

1TB for me took about 9 hours using internal SATA III ports on reasonably fast motherboard.
Thanks -- good point! I think my motherboard (Intel DP67BG) is 4-5 years old, so I don't know how fast it would be -- it was considered pretty quick back then :-) And, LOL -- I have no clue as to what the internal ports are.

I'll try to remember to time how long it takes me to clone the 2 TB drive, if I'm able to successfully do it. It's really helpful to me to have time ideas just so I don't think something is going wrong when it's just process that takes time.

Thanks again!
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post #728 of 738 Old 08-18-2016, 09:47 PM
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Thanks -- good point! I think my motherboard (Intel DP67BG) is 4-5 years old, so I don't know how fast it would be -- it was considered pretty quick back then :-) And, LOL -- I have no clue as to what the internal ports are.
Looks like you have a two 6Gb/s ports and four 3Gb/s ports. Make sure you connect the drives to the the 6Gb/s SATA ports for the fastest results.

I expect you'll get similar 9 or 10 hours for a 1TB clone, so figure about 17 hours? Maybe?


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post #729 of 738 Old 08-19-2016, 09:33 AM
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Never one to be embarrassed to admit my ignorance, how would I tell which of the two ports are 6Gb/s? I've had my computer open quasi-regularly -- I pull the drives & other things like the graphics card, sound card, modem, RAM, etc. out to blow out dust -- but I'm unfamiliar with the port deal. Would the data or power cords that hook to each drive be different? I can't say as I've ever traced down where the HDD cables go, I'm sorry to say. TIA for any guidance/direction!

A couple of additional comments . . .

First, I generally move more slowly when trying to troubleshoot, but since everything seemed to be working fine with the new internal drive, I hooked up the external drive and all seems well, basically. Because I was unsure about the source of the Moxi's flakiness, I used a new enclosure for the external drive (I'm not happy with the enclosure, but oh well).

Second, though, I am beginning to think that somehow, the internal drive wasn't the problem because in updating my "repair" history of Moxi 1, I saw that I just replaced the internal drive about 16 months ago. I know hard drives can fail much sooner than expected, but I don't know that I've ever had a hard drive fail that quickly.

Now, the external drive has been in use for several years -- my records suck for that, but I think it's been hooked up to that Moxi for 4 years or so. So, I could understand if it was failing -- that was initially what I thought the problem was. However, I unhooked it for several days at least three times over the past couple of months, and Moxi 1 still continued to misbehave. That's why my suspicions shifted to the internal drive, but I wasn't remembering that I'd replaced the internal hard drive so recently.

Any suggestions? If it was a "regular" hard drive, I'd run diagnostics to see what (if anything) showed up, but I don't know how to troubleshoot drives that have been used in Moxis.

My "plan" was to clone the internal drive I just replaced & put it back in to watch the Olympics stuff that was recorded on it, but now I'm wondering if I should clone the external (1.5 TB) first? I guess what I'm wondering is if a failing external drive could corrupt the Moxi's OS on the internal drive, which then caused the flakiness I was seeing?

One last bit of oddness just for completeness: both of my Moxis with their external drives attached and therefore recorded content are back to showing up on moxi.com! The history is that Moxi 2 (the behaving Moxi) quit displaying on moxi.com a long time (well over a year) ago -- the error message was something like "unable to display." I checked periodically for awhile with no resolution but never pursued any further troubleshooting since others reported the same issue. Anyway, dz3k asked me about it a few days ago in the other thread. I checked again for the first time in many months to verify that I was still experiencing that issue, which I was (you can see my response here).

However, I checked again earlier this AM to make sure Moxi 1 was still showing up properly, and not only is are the "Scheduled" and "Recorded" tabs correct & complete for Moxi 1 as always, but they show up correctly for Moxi 2! I am very glad, but what the heck fixed it?! The only changes I've made to were with Moxi 1: replacing the internal hard drive, and changing the external enclosure (and eSATA cable for the external drive). SHM

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post #730 of 738 Old 08-19-2016, 12:25 PM
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Never one to be embarrassed to admit my ignorance, how would I tell which of the two ports are 6Gb/s? I've had my computer open quasi-regularly -- I pull the drives & other things like the graphics card, sound card, modem, RAM, etc. out to blow out dust -- but I'm unfamiliar with the port deal. Would the data or power cords that hook to each drive be different? I can't say as I've ever traced down where the HDD cables go, I'm sorry to say. TIA for any guidance/direction!
You'll either have to look for the microscopic writing on the board indicating what the ports are or find the reference manual and compare it to the ports as you are connecting. Ports may be a different color, but not always.

Quote:
Second, though, I am beginning to think that somehow, the internal drive wasn't the problem because in updating my "repair" history of Moxi 1, I saw that I just replaced the internal drive about 16 months ago. I know hard drives can fail much sooner than expected, but I don't know that I've ever had a hard drive fail that quickly.
I replaced a WD Green 5400rpm drive in less than twelve months because I could see the problems beginning. Without any power saving features the Moxi is a hot box for drives running 24/7 so it will take it's toll more quickly than your standard drive enclosure.

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Any suggestions? If it was a "regular" hard drive, I'd run diagnostics to see what (if anything) showed up, but I don't know how to troubleshoot drives that have been used in Moxis.
You can only pull it and check SMART status and any bad blocks by hooking it to a PC using typical drive utilities. Attempt a drive repair at your own risk.

Quote:
My "plan" was to clone the internal drive I just replaced & put it back in to watch the Olympics stuff that was recorded on it, but now I'm wondering if I should clone the external (1.5 TB) first? I guess what I'm wondering is if a failing external drive could corrupt the Moxi's OS on the internal drive, which then caused the flakiness I was seeing?
You can try. The external drives become simply an extension of the internal capacity and as far as I can tell there is no way to know what is being stored on them, where the recordings go or what bits of the OS are added to make sure it is recognized. That's why I don't bother. It's another layer to troubleshoot on a system that is basically a lot of guesswork as it is.


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post #731 of 738 Old Yesterday, 12:44 PM
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VisionOn, thanks so much for the guidance/suggestions! I dug out the motherboard manual & with your explanation, I think I've got a shot of trying to make sure I hook up the drives to the faster 6Gb/s ports when I clone. But for your guidance, I wouldn't have known to even try. I also learned that my eSATA port (which I use for backup) is a 6 Gb/s port.

Am I correctly thinking that cloning should be done before I use any drive utilities on the 2 TB internal Moxi drive I replaced? I do have a very basic understanding of why drives used in Moxis 24/7 can fail more quickly -- I think I'm mostly suspicious because I put the same internal drive in Moxi 2 back in 10/2013 and it's still working fine. This just seems like a very quick failure to me.

Completely agree about the external drive complications particularly when there's so much unknown -- barring the RAID-1 setup(s) a couple of people posted about some time back that was beyond my understanding, I wish we didn't need to use them at all, but we need the space. <sigh> I'm particularly annoyed at myself because for reasons I no longer recall (maybe I had the extra drives on-hand, or maybe I was penny-wise and pound-foolish), I used 1.5 TB drives in the external enclosures rather than 2 TB. SMH because I thought I used 2 TB only for the Moxis' internal and external drives . . . and when I bought hdd recently (before we knew that 4FP was still going to work post-8-12-2016), I bought 2 TB hdds. If I'm going to clone the suspect external drive attached to Moxi 1 without buying another hdd, I'll have to sacrifice that 0.5 TB.

Thanks again, and thanks for helping me try to think through things!
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Am I correctly thinking that cloning should be done before I use any drive utilities on the 2 TB internal Moxi drive I replaced?
Depending on the utility you can run basic non-intrusive test like SMART and quick tests that just do a quick scan for bad blocks at any time.

However if you attempt to fix those drives by moving bad blocks around you may have to format them and lose everything, or the utility could mess up the Moxi file system in unforseen ways.

If you plan to clone the drive then repairing is probably wasted effort. The cloning process will copy some errors too because it ignores operating systems and file structures, it just copies all the data it can see. If G4L cannot read a block or sector due to a physical hardware fault it will have to skip it anyway.

If you want to copy your recordings you have only one option. So trying to fix the errors or not, you'll still be crossing your fingers at some point.



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post #733 of 738 Old Today, 09:52 AM
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Thank you for your help! Sorry for not explaining myself better, and for running a bit afield with my thinking. I've replaced Moxi 1's internal drive with a new hdd & fresh OS install done via 4FP -- that will remain the permanent (until it fails) internal drive.

I still need to clone the "old" internal drive I removed so I can watch the Olympics stuff I recorded when I have the time to take Moxi 1 out of recording use for a few days, which I should be able to do soon since the Olympics are almost over :-) After I clone it, I know I'll have to swap the drives to the clone to watch the Olympics stuff.

My question was more of a process question about how to determine if the drive I already removed from Moxi 1 has really failed (maybe the problems originated with the external drive or something) or can perhaps be used as a spare to have on-hand for Moxi 1 after I watch the Olympics stuff?

I know I have a problem over-thinking things, but I was trying to simplify the process for myself and trying to decrease the number of times I have to crack cases and move things around. My wondering was if I could run basic non-intrusive diagnostics on the "failing" drive to determine if it really is going bad (not attempt any repairs at that time), then clone to a new drive, and install the clone in the Moxi to watch the Olympics.

Once I'm finished with the Olympics, if diagnostics seemed to indicate the original suspected failing drive I cloned from is OK, then I'd throw it in the Moxi, do the 4FP to format & (re)install the OS before switching back to the new drive -- that way, I'd have a drive ready (other than pairing to the CC, which I think could be done later when needed) when the new drive eventually fails.

If diagnostics seem to indicate that drive really is bad, I'd just toss it after I watch the Olympics, but I'd use the cloned drive to do a 4FP format & install to put away for when the new drive fails.

Does that make any sense?

If I'm correctly understanding what you wrote, it sounds like I can run non-intrusive diagnostics before cloning?

One other questions for now: does anyone know if I can watch recorded stuff on the cloned hard drive without re-pairing the CableCard? I know I have to pair the CC to watch/record live TV, but what about to only watch the already recorded stuff?

As always, many thanks for any guidance!

Saundra
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If I'm correctly understanding what you wrote, it sounds like I can run non-intrusive diagnostics before cloning?
Yes.

Even after you clone the drive I wouldn't reuse a Moxi pull on a day to day basis.

Chances are you will find some errors and even if you fix them after you've finished with the drive, it's been put through so many cycles running 24/7 in a Moxi I wouldn't trust it to hold anything permanent.



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post #735 of 738 Old Today, 06:03 PM
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Some good info here and yes the clone somehow worked for me. I'm glad to know the 4fp still works but I don't understand why I couldn't get it to work. I've replaced the drive with 4fp twice before.

But yes almost 30 hours for a 2 tb drive reason being you are booting up with g4l and I only have my main computer here and didn't want to tie it up for a long time so I pulled the 4 "extra" drives I had in my Probox external, put the source and destination drives in, and plugged it into the usb 2.0 on a laptop we have here. I just let it run. I thought maybe the slow speed might be a good thing as I have no idea why my drive would not play recorded shows, but still ran the Moxi software.

And yes we already have the Arris enhanced dvr in the living room (my wife really didn't like the Moxi Mate so I sold it and got her a TW box)
It actually was only $3 additional to get another enhanced dvr over what it would have cost to get a Mate-like sattelite box for the bedroom. Very expensive "whole house"! Mine is going back to TW tomorrow. Nice, but not worth $25 a month
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post #736 of 738 Old Today, 08:08 PM
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Yes.

Even after you clone the drive I wouldn't reuse a Moxi pull on a day to day basis.

Chances are you will find some errors and even if you fix them after you've finished with the drive, it's been put through so many cycles running 24/7 in a Moxi I wouldn't trust it to hold anything permanent.
Thanks -- good points! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your patience and willingness to share. The "old" drive had been in use in the Moxi for 16 months, something I wasn't taking into consideration until you pointed it out. OTOH, I've had a really new hdd (external Moxi drive) I stored appropriately that was dead as a doornail after two years when my dh wanted to re-watch some big sports deal with his pals he'd asked me to save.

I also had a duh moment: I wasn't correctly thinking things through that I'll be using the cloned hard drive -- not the "old" drive itself -- to watch my Olympics stuff, so I could run diagnostics on the "old" drive after I finish cloning it to see what WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics finds (if I understand any of it) while getting through Olympics on the clone. SMH.

Mostly, I was just thinking that if the "old" drive is OK, I'd use it as a disaster plan in case the 4FP quits working before something unrepairable goes wrong with the Moxi. But, I think you made good points I'd not thought of.

And, I really need to stop thinking myself down rabbit holes, putting carts before horses, or whatever :-)
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Thanks, Dave -- I completely understand not wanting tie up your main computer for so long with cloning. The thought makes me nervous, but not as unhappy as losing the Olympics! I have a tablet I can use, but all my important data is on my workhorse, and not having access to it for a day or two makes me really nervous. OTOH, if something desperate comes up, I can attach the appropriate hard drive to my tablet since I'm disconnecting the six internal drives before I clone (I'm paranoid about not correctly selecting the correct source & destination sources and inadvertently overwriting one of my real hard drives).

Interesting about the cost of your nice TWC Arrus DVR box! I live in northern Idaho, and TWC is charging me $25/month for their 2-tuner Motorola DVR with a tiny hard drive. They told me I couldn't get the Arrus DVR box unless I went with their "whole house" solution, which wasn't going to happen since I was looking for something temporary to make sure I didn't miss any of my beloved Olympics :-) I truly dread the day when I have to move on from Moxi -- I know some people have built HTPCs they are very happy with, but that's far beyond my understanding. Before I decided to go from SD ReplayTVs (which my dh still uses) to Moxis, I considered Tivos, but there was something weird I can't recall now about TWC and Tivos that made me go with the Moxis. I just hope that by the time our Moxis give up the ghost (or something technology change makes them unusable) there are options as good as the Moxis were when they were new!
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Mostly, I was just thinking that if the "old" drive is OK, I'd use it as a disaster plan in case the 4FP quits working before something unrepairable goes wrong with the Moxi. But, I think you made good points I'd not thought of.
Would still work for a disaster scenario as temporary fix but using it in a long term situation might be risky.

Of course it's rare that drives mechanically fail instantly and just stop working, so in any case you would probably have enough signs of something going wrong with old or new drives that you would have time to do something about it.

I still have my old problematic Moxi drive which had numerous errors sitting in a box somewhere. There's nothing on it I have to watch, but if my current drive decides to randomly implode one day at least I'll have another to stick in the Moxi while a new drive is on the way.



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