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tabrech's Avatar tabrech
08:19 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 87
02-07-2011 | Posts: 38
Joined: Feb 2011
Hi everyone,

I have come across several threads that talk about recording HDTV from a Comcast IEEE 1394 equipped set top box and a Mitsubishi HD-HM2000U, and no two people say the same thing. But people do say how great of a job the Mitsubishi does recording HDTV and I am trying to harness those capabilities.

I just bought a new Samsung LCD TV and I can not get this setup to work and have probably spent 40 hours on the net and talking to technical support at Best Buy and on the phone with Samsung, Comcast and Mitsubishi. No one has revealed an answer.

First and foremost, my new TV doesn't have a firewire input so I can't even connect the Mitsubishi VCR to it. Does anyone PLEASE know how this can be accomplished?
ctdish's Avatar ctdish
12:53 PM Liked: 23
post #2 of 87
02-08-2011 | Posts: 1,374
Joined: Dec 2000
Unfortunately the Mits recorders were designed to be used an external device to control the digital recording. This is usually a 1394 equipped TV. Although a computer can also do the job but only allowing recording and playback between the computer and DVHS.
I don't think any TVs support 1394 these days so what you have is not a useful combination. The only possible way to record from the Comcast box is if you can find that it has a menu that will control the recorder. The JVC DVHS machines are much more flexible but even with them the comcast box will need to output a fixed bit rate that equal to or lower that the ATSC rate.
John
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
03:00 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 87
02-08-2011 | Posts: 38
Joined: Feb 2011
Do you by chance know if the JVC HM-DH30000U work for me? It has a firewire input and a component output.

Assuming I have a Comcast IEEE 1394 compliant cable box.

My problem is that I don't have any experience recording HDTV on D-VHS to rely on.

I think I have to conclude that my Mitsubishi HD2000U is worthless even though it goes for $500 on Amazon. You can't play the digital signal through it's awesome composite A/V outputs, only through firewire, which no TV exists with a firewire input.
ctdish's Avatar ctdish
05:32 PM Liked: 23
post #4 of 87
02-08-2011 | Posts: 1,374
Joined: Dec 2000
You can use the Mits with a computer to record and playback over the air and maybe a few cable channels.
All of the JVC DVHS machines will playback through their component outputs and can record from any source the Mits DVHS machines can. They can record from any 1394 source that puts out the correct constant data rate. The JVC DT100 can also record HD over the air when connected to an antenna. All of the JVC's can playback prerecorded D theater tapes. I don't have any actual experience with cable but I doubt it is constant rate video.
Others may disagree but I think recording to hard disk is much more affordable and reliable than tape.
John
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
10:07 AM Liked: 10
post #5 of 87
02-09-2011 | Posts: 38
Joined: Feb 2011
Thank you John for your insight.

I was going to pull the trigger on the JVC HM-DH3000U but I think I'm going to hold off for now just because the show I originally wanted to record in HD was the Super Bowl and now I have a year before I really will need to record anything. Plus I need a new laptop for school.

The VCR I would really like to have is that JVC DT100U or the HM-DH5U like you mentioned. Those VCRs have the HDMI output and would work perfectly with my system. But after 2 weeks of scouring the internet, I could not find one of these units available for purchase.

Besides, since I haven't been able to hook up my Mitsubishi for playback, I haven't been able to figure out if I can even record through the firewire connection to my Comcast cable box. If I can't record through my Comcast cable box, spending big bucks on the JVC DT100 or DH5U would be a big disappointment. Especially since I could probably purchase a DVR for less money than one of these vintage VCRs. But I really wanted to record HDTV on D-VHS just to see if it is really sweet!

I think I might have to try hooking the Mitsubishi to the computer before I totally abandon it. Again, I really appreciate your insight, and it sure sounds like you know what you're talking about. I'm sure I will be back on the forum trying to figure this out.
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
10:12 AM Liked: 10
post #6 of 87
02-09-2011 | Posts: 38
Joined: Feb 2011
I also could not find a Samsung SIR T 165 HDTV tuner, which I understand has the firewire input and I could have run the Mits through the T 165 for playback to the HDTV.

There was also a converter made by Convergent Design called the Nanoconnect which I understand would convert the firewire signal to HDMI. But at $600, that is too expensive for me.

I will keep searching for the solution...
ctdish's Avatar ctdish
10:44 AM Liked: 23
post #7 of 87
02-09-2011 | Posts: 1,374
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The JVC's are more flexable but the only devices that Mits can record directly from are 1394 equipted TVs and computers because the require external control. I am not sure about the Samsung 165 but its production ended quit a few years ago.
John
mtallent's Avatar mtallent
12:07 AM Liked: 13
post #8 of 87
02-10-2011 | Posts: 867
Joined: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post

I also could not find a Samsung SIR T 165 HDTV tuner, which I understand has the firewire input and I could have run the Mits through the T 165 for playback to the HDTV.

There was also a converter made by Convergent Design called the Nanoconnect which I understand would convert the firewire signal to HDMI. But at $600, that is too expensive for me.

I will keep searching for the solution...

Yes, the SIR T-165 works just fine with the Mitsu D-VHS, you can control the D-VHS form the T-165, and the T-165 has DVI output. Problem with the Mitsu D-VHS is that it is not compatible with the 5C encryption on cable firewire outputs, but the JVC units are and will record all channels from cable box I have with Comcast.

Mike T
comcastardly's Avatar comcastardly
05:55 AM Liked: 10
post #9 of 87
02-10-2011 | Posts: 269
Joined: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post

I also could not find a Samsung SIR T 165 HDTV tuner, which I understand has the firewire input and I could have run the Mits through the T 165 for playback to the HDTV.

There was also a converter made by Convergent Design called the Nanoconnect which I understand would convert the firewire signal to HDMI. But at $600, that is too expensive for me.

I will keep searching for the solution...

Hmmm, is it possible my T-165is actually worth something now?
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
12:05 PM Liked: 10
post #10 of 87
02-10-2011 | Posts: 38
Joined: Feb 2011
Oh it's worth something all right. Every piece of equipment I need to make this happen is very difficult to find. I didn't realize equipment went obsolete so fast in the home entertainment business!

I'm afraid to buy anything because I'm not sure it will work! Painful. Maybe best to try to find a JVC and sell the Mitsubishi. I don't know.
kcgr's Avatar kcgr
04:46 PM Liked: 12
post #11 of 87
02-10-2011 | Posts: 401
Joined: Jul 2001
I have the 1100u version hooked to an old Hitachi HDTV without issues, but then again I'm not recording from a cable box. I assume your firewire ports on the comcast box are active?
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
10:18 PM Liked: 10
post #12 of 87
02-10-2011 | Posts: 38
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OH, now that's a story all in itself. I have a nightmare story about comcast.

I just upgraded to and HD cable box within the past month. It was a Motorola 6400 I believe. I hooked up the Mitsubishi to it using firewire and followed the instructions in the manual for Recording a Current Digital Broadcast.

I'm not sure if it worked or not because when I tried to play it back, I got the message "This is a digital recording. You cannot view it through this input." This is where I soured on the Mitsubishi. It only has composite a/v output or a coax output. The only possible way to play back would be through the firewire output, and of course, my tv has no firewire input. No tv on the market today has a firewire input.

I do some internet research and figure out how to access the menu of their motorola cable box. Under connections, it said the the IEEE 1394 was "Enabled" but not "Active." I get on the phone with Comcast, and the guy tells me that the firewire ports are set to SEND only and not RECEIVE.

So now I think I have the problem figured out. I thought that I needed a cable box with a firewire port that SENDS and RECEIVES. I get back on the phone with a new guy at Comcast and say I want a cable box with an Active firewire port in accordance with the FCC law. He says, "No problem, we'll send a technician and he'll have the tools to activate your firewire port." Now I'm happy. I'm thinking I can playback the Mitsubishi through the cable box, and from the cable box to the TV. I just need to find out how to switch the input on the cable box from cable tv to the firewire input from the Mitsubishi. So I'm thinking it's all going to be taken care of.

Well, the technician comes, and all he wants to do is swap out my cable box for a different one. He said they can't do anything to modify the cable boxes from the way they receive them from the factory. He said you can't switch inputs or run any external devices through the cable box. He gives me a RNG110 high definition digital set top and bids me farewell.

I call comcast back and tell them that the guy they sent out didn't accomplish anything that I was told he was going to accomplish. THIS time, the guy from comcast tells me that they don't activate the firewire ports because "they don't use them." What? I argue with him saying it was their guy who set up the appointment with the technician and told me they could accomplish what I needed. He just kept saying "we don't use them." I asked him about the FCC law, and he didn't know what I was talking about. I wanted to throw my phone against the wall. These people have no interest in helping their customers. If they can't figure something out, they come up with such BS I swear, they must be non-skilled minimum wage earning employees. It was really frustrating. So I hung up on him and haven't dealt with comcast since.

However, I did access the menu for the RNG100 set top box, and, under connections, the IEEE 1394 was again listed as NOT ENABLED. But, the funny thing is it is seeing the Mitsubishi because it listed the Mitsubishi HM-HD2000U as a device that was connected to it. And I think the Mitsubishi was seeing the set top box, because it comes up as d3 tuner under the IEEE 1394 connections (It was the 3rd tuner I hooked up).

That is where I left off. I realized I needed a way to connect the Mitsubishi output to an input on my TV because I can't do it through a Comcast cable box. That is why I signed up for this forum. I need a way to play back so I can test whether the recording worked or not.
kcgr's Avatar kcgr
09:18 AM Liked: 12
post #13 of 87
02-11-2011 | Posts: 401
Joined: Jul 2001
I think you're right: the firewire has to be two way. With the Mits (at least as I have mine working) there's not really a way to playback a "digital recording", unless you use firewire. The analog outs won't do it. If the comcast box only sends but doesn't receive signals via firewire, then playback is going to be a problem.

If it can receive a signal, then the playback should go thru the comcast box then to the TV. On my setup, the only cables I have hooked up to the Mits are a power cable to the wall and a firewire cable to my Hitachi TV. All control is via an interface on the TV. I program a timer on the TV and it wakes the vcr, sends the signal and shuts it off when the timer says to. Playback is via a pop-up menu, that allows me to turn the vcr on, rewind, then playback.

I'd hound comcast a bit more before giving up (I hate "the man" being victorious). But, I'm not sure how "bulldog-ish" you're prepared to be. I think from their end, you're just one dude that needs it out of thousands who don't use firewire.

good luck!
mtallent's Avatar mtallent
09:53 AM Liked: 13
post #14 of 87
02-11-2011 | Posts: 867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post

OH, now that's a story all in itself. I have a nightmare story about comcast.

I just upgraded to and HD cable box within the past month. It was a Motorola 6400 I believe. I hooked up the Mitsubishi to it using firewire and followed the instructions in the manual for Recording a Current Digital Broadcast.

That is where I left off. I realized I needed a way to connect the Mitsubishi output to an input on my TV because I can't do it through a Comcast cable box. That is why I signed up for this forum. I need a way to play back so I can test whether the recording worked or not.

If you really want to use the firewire on the HD-2000 then you need to get the SIR-T165 Samsung STB. Then you can record and play only channels that are set as copy freely by the 5C encryption, I think this is what I remember working. With the Comcast I have here all channels are set copy freely except the premium movie channels.

If you get a JVC, I have the DH5U, it will record and play through component or HDMI all channels and with the premium movie channels you cannot copy the tape or transfer the firewire data to your computer.

Another choice is to stream the firewire to a computer running 32 bit windows or MAC. Win XP is the easiest to get working and I keep a computer running Win XP for this purpose, but you cannot record any channels not set "copy freely" by the 5C encryption, which is only the premium movie channels for me. See this thread-
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

From what you see in the status menu of the cable box, I think you are recording the firewire stream but don't have any way of seeing the playback yet.

Mike T
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
04:12 PM Liked: 51
post #15 of 87
02-11-2011 | Posts: 2,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post

Do you by chance know if the JVC HM-DH30000U work for me? It has a firewire input and a component output.

Assuming I have a Comcast IEEE 1394 compliant cable box.

My problem is that I don't have any experience recording HDTV on D-VHS to rely on.

I think I have to conclude that my Mitsubishi HD2000U is worthless even though it goes for $500 on Amazon. You can't play the digital signal through it's awesome composite A/V outputs, only through firewire, which no TV exists with a firewire input.

You have several choices:
1. Either a JVC 30K/40K/100U/5U DVHS deck with component or HDMI output to playback the mits recordings.
2. Samsung SIR-T165 tuner to control the deck.
3. Mits HD5000/6000 Tuners
4. You SHOULD also be able to use one of these AV/C's to control the DVHS deck recording off the integrated cablecard slot:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-Elite-PR...item1c193e281d
5. Get a HDTV with built in firewire ports. My Sharp LC-45GX6U's work awesome from the TV to control the DVHS decks.
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
08:11 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 87
02-13-2011 | Posts: 38
Joined: Feb 2011
Thanks for all your insight everyone! I am very glad I registered and posted on this site, now I have a pretty good idea of what my options are. Now, if only I could waltz on down to Sears or Best Buy and nab the vintage equipment I need, but what fun would that be?
leftjab's Avatar leftjab
02:17 PM Liked: 10
post #17 of 87
02-17-2011 | Posts: 106
Joined: Jan 2005
one other point about recording via firewire on D-VHS from Comcast DVRs: the new DCX models have effectively disabled firewire-out recording onto D-VHS (see DSperber's posts in the DCX thread). the older DCH DVRs still work for firewire-out recording, and perhaps some even older DCT DVRs.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
02:48 PM Liked: 51
post #18 of 87
02-17-2011 | Posts: 2,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftjab View Post

one other point about recording via firewire on D-VHS from Comcast DVRs: the new DCX models have effectively disabled firewire-out recording onto D-VHS (see DSperber's posts in the DCX thread). the older DCH DVRs still work for firewire-out recording, and perhaps some even older DCT DVRs.

As well as cablecard TV's with firewire ports like my 45" sharp which works fine.
TNO821's Avatar TNO821
08:46 PM Liked: 17
post #19 of 87
02-17-2011 | Posts: 1,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

As well as cablecard TV's with firewire ports like my 45" sharp which works fine.

Wait, are you saying you hook a DCX Moto box to the Sharp firewire successfully?

Or are you just saying that a DVHS deck works fine with your Sharp TV's firewire?
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
09:03 PM Liked: 51
post #20 of 87
02-17-2011 | Posts: 2,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNO821 View Post

Wait, are you saying you hook a DCX Moto box to the Sharp firewire successfully?

Or are you just saying that a DVHS deck works fine with your Sharp TV's firewire?

Sharp-DVHS
Sharp-Computer
works fine.

Cable DVR's only have a crippled AVC Panel subunit.
TNO821's Avatar TNO821
09:38 PM Liked: 17
post #21 of 87
02-17-2011 | Posts: 1,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Sharp-DVHS
Sharp-Computer
works fine.

That's cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Cable DVR's only have a crippled AVC Panel subunit.

Reportedly extra-crippled in the case of the DCX
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
08:28 PM Liked: 10
post #22 of 87
02-19-2011 | Posts: 38
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Could not find a JVC 5U or DT100. Found several used 30000U's but not willing to pay that much for used equipment.

Could not find a LG LST-3410A.

Found a decent deal on a Samsung SIR T165. Should receive next week, and hopefully figure out how to use the Mits to record HD D-VHS.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
08:53 PM Liked: 51
post #23 of 87
02-20-2011 | Posts: 2,959
Joined: Sep 2005
BTW-It is a HS-HD2000U, not HM-HD2000U....
Keep your eye on ebay-they show up regularly.
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
07:35 PM Liked: 10
post #24 of 87
02-25-2011 | Posts: 38
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Think I'll change my name to "Lucky."

Just bought a used Samsung SIR T-165 off eBay for $75. Previously I tested my Samsung HDTV for OTA capability, and it received everything, NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, WGN, PBS, plus a bunch of others.

This piece of $hit Samsung SIR T165 will only pick up ABC. I get nothing else. After all that research, the goddam thing doesn't pick up one single channel I wanted to record. Is it just me?

I checked the signals and the furthest one away from me is 2 miles. I even went back to Best Buy to get a new antenna, same result.

I did record and playback ABC in D-VHS using the Mitsubishi, but that is not a station I'm interested in. I can't believe this thing won't pick up any other stations. Does anyone have any advice besides chucking the T165 and Mitsubishi 2000U off my balcony 5 stories down to the concrete? That's pretty much what I want to do right now.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
09:43 PM Liked: 51
post #25 of 87
02-25-2011 | Posts: 2,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post

Think I'll change my name to "Lucky."

Just bought a used Samsung SIR T-165 off eBay for $75. Previously I tested my Samsung HDTV for OTA capability, and it received everything, NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, WGN, PBS, plus a bunch of others.

This piece of $hit Samsung SIR T165 will only pick up ABC. I get nothing else. After all that research, the goddam thing doesn't pick up one single channel I wanted to record. Is it just me?

I checked the signals and the furthest one away from me is 2 miles. I even went back to Best Buy to get a new antenna, same result.

I did record and playback ABC in D-VHS using the Mitsubishi, but that is not a station I'm interested in. I can't believe this thing won't pick up any other stations. Does anyone have any advice besides chucking the T165 and Mitsubishi 2000U off my balcony 5 stories down to the concrete? That's pretty much what I want to do right now.

Dont chuck it-I'll give you twenty bucks for them.
You need a good outdoor antenna-not some ****** indoor antenna.
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
09:57 PM Liked: 10
post #26 of 87
02-25-2011 | Posts: 38
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Thanks, I was just thinking about that. And please I apologize for my language. I was really frustrated. Twenty bucks? That bad, eh?

This sure has been a lot of effort to record a super bowl in 2012. Whew!
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
11:15 PM Liked: 51
post #27 of 87
02-26-2011 | Posts: 2,959
Joined: Sep 2005
What you need is either:
1. JVC DT100U to record OTA via its internal ATSC tuner, or from your Motorola box using firewire. You would then watch your recordings using the DVHS decks component video/HDMI outputs.
2. JVC 30k/40k which only would record off firewire from the Motorola cable box and playback via component video.
Just kidding about the 20 bucks.

Alternatively, you could just go out and get yourself a Tivo DVR and record to its hard drive, if you are willing to pay the monthly fee and you could return the cable DVR and save the bit of coin from the cable box to subsidize the tivo subscription? I have several DVHS decks and several Tivo's personally.
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
05:02 PM Liked: 10
post #28 of 87
02-27-2011 | Posts: 38
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I can't find a JVC DT100U, JVC 5U, or 40000U. The 30000U's I've found have been pretty pricey for used equipment.

If I could record off a Motorola box with firewire with a JVC, shouldn't I be able to do the same thing with the Mitsubishi 2000U?

If so, then I would be able to then playback the firewire recording from the motorola hd box through the Samsung SIR T165, right?

But yes, I'm about to give up on this project. It's very annoying and producing zero results.
tabrech's Avatar tabrech
05:11 PM Liked: 10
post #29 of 87
02-27-2011 | Posts: 38
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p.s. I currently do not subscribe to any DVR service. I just have a Comcast HD cable box.

The Samsung SIR T165, although it appears to be a crappy OTA receiver, does in fact allow me to playback D-VHS from my Mitsubishi 2000U via firewire. Unfortunately, the only channel I can record OTA through the T165 is ABC.

If I could go back and renew my fight with Comcast for a firewire enabled box, there may be hope for me. But short of spending $500 on a JVC D-VHS or LG LST 3410, I have pretty much tried everything I can think of.
TNO821's Avatar TNO821
06:00 PM Liked: 17
post #30 of 87
02-27-2011 | Posts: 1,105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post
p.s. I currently do not subscribe to any DVR service. I just have a Comcast HD cable box.
What does this mean? It isn't a DVR? You can only watch Live TV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post
The Samsung SIR T165, although it appears to be a crappy OTA receiver, does in fact allow me to playback D-VHS from my Mitsubishi 2000U via firewire. Unfortunately, the only channel I can record OTA through the T165 is ABC.
I'll bet if you got a really good outdoor antenna (put it in the attic), it'd get more channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabrech View Post
If I could go back and renew my fight with Comcast for a firewire enabled box, there may be hope for me. But short of spending $500 on a JVC D-VHS or LG LST 3410, I have pretty much tried everything I can think of.
Just have Comcast get you a DCH3412/3416 or DCT6412/6416. The firewire ports work on those. Nobody at Comcast will be able to tell you dick about firewire; They don't know. Almost nobody uses it, so few of the employees have a clue about it. The ports will work. Comcast isn't going to disable them, as doing so violates an FCC mandate.

Just be sure to get a Motorola 3412/3416/6412/6416 and you'll be set (barring any PC firewire problems...plan on reinstalling 32-bit Windows XP/Vista/or 7). Stay away from the Motorola DCX3400, which has completely broken firewire (Motorola has thus far failed hard at coding firmware for it).

(I'd recommend the Motorola DCH3416...I have one and I really like it and dump stuff via firewire almost daily)

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