Channel Master TV CM 7400 HD DVR - OTA, Clear QAM, Internet Content - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1996 Old 12-21-2011, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Thanks. I missed that. Must be a real nice garage.

Ya think? Sounds like my kind of wife, though.

- kelson h

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post #452 of 1996 Old 12-21-2011, 12:55 PM
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I have owned the CM-7000 for close to 18 months now. In that time I have not had once that I noticed the time being off. I believe if you are still having problems with your time the most likely culprit is your local station carrying the information. I also think that is the problem for most people using PSIP for their program information. I have not had one problem with the schedule using PSIP here in the Seattle area. All the major networks are fully informed out to one week. The only problem with recording I have ever had is the multiple sequencing problem noted by several others. Since I have tuned off the automatic update that hasn't been a problem either.(might be coincidental) I have my recording set to start one minute before and end one minute late. I have not had one program missed out of 10+/week in close to 80 weeks. If you try to record in sequence and already have both tuners working on other programs it stands to reason that you will lose out on some part of a program. It is not possible to record three things at once. The unit will allow you to make an error if you do not adjust the start and finish times. Since I adjusted my start time and end time as noted above the only thing I see is a missed minute of the beginning of the following program which is usually of no consequence. In fact I have not missed anything I attempted to record ever. I did have the unit lock up one time in the first month I owned it before I got in and adjusted some of the settings (record, update, etc.) Since then it has been flawless. My only question is about the streaming ability of the 7400 and if the content, availability, quality of streaming is worth getting involved yet? Will it likely be the method of obtaining sports like ESPN? Anyone have thoughts. Sorry to those of you that are still having time problems but as I said, I think it is a problem with the broadcast station not the unit. My understanding is that the unit is just reading what your local area broadcast is sending out. When you think about it, how else would it know the time? With power outages and surges everywhere in the country it is bound to lose tract sometime even if you set it every day. I have had the power go off for over 24 hours and still when it came back on everything reset. I have never had to adjust the clock.
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post #453 of 1996 Old 12-21-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

My only question is about the streaming ability of the 7400 and if the content, availability, quality of streaming is worth getting involved yet? Will it likely be the method of obtaining sports like ESPN? Anyone have thoughts. Sorry to those of you that are still having time problems but as I said, I think it is a problem with the broadcast station not the unit. My understanding is that the unit is just reading what your local area broadcast is sending out. When you think about it, how else would it know the time? With power outages and surges everywhere in the country it is bound to lose tract sometime even if you set it every day. I have had the power go off for over 24 hours and still when it came back on everything reset. I have never had to adjust the clock.

I don't have any issues with OTA broadcast stations or PSIP since I have neither. You could check out VUDU.COM and channelmasterTV.com to get more information. As for power, I have everything on a UPS and they can be charged from an inverter. If I have gas in my car, I have power (and heat).

Time? Well maybe like your computer. From the internet. A great value. Your tax dollars at work. Clocks get it from Colorado Springs. My TV and DVR get it from TVGOS.

Truly, we don't know how good the 7400 will work. The reviews on Amazon aren't too technical but well intentioned. Until someone with DVR experience blesses us with a good review, we speculate and wait.

Personally, I'm waiting for a price drop after the new year.
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post #454 of 1996 Old 12-21-2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

I have owned the CM-7000 for close to 18 months now. In that time I have not had once that I noticed the time being off. I believe if you are still having problems with your time the most likely culprit is your local station carrying the information. . . . I have not had one problem with the schedule using PSIP here in the Seattle area. All the major networks are fully informed out to one week. . . . I have my recording set to start one minute before and end one minute late.

Sounds like you live in Pal DVR paradise if you get 1 week of PSIP and accurate clock data. So let me ask you this. If your clock is so accurate, why do you feel the need to pad your recordings by 1 minute on each end? My DVR gets it's time over the Internet and is dead on. As a result, I've never padded a start or stop time for a normal primetime show and never missed a second of the content.

- kelson h

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post #455 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Truly, we don't know how good the 7400 will work. The reviews on Amazon aren't too technical but well intentioned. Until someone with DVR experience blesses us with a good review, we speculate and wait.

I got mine set up last night. I'll post a review next week after I've had a chance to use it a while and get used to how it works.
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post #456 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Sounds like you live in Pal DVR paradise if you get 1 week of PSIP and accurate clock data. So let me ask you this. If your clock is so accurate, why do you feel the need to pad your recordings by 1 minute on each end? My DVR gets it's time over the Internet and is dead on. As a result, I've never padded a start or stop time for a normal primetime show and never missed a second of the content.

Recorder clock accuracy is rarely the cause of our lost endings. Usually, that's the fault of the previous show. ABC schedules late starts after reality shows, and sometimes later than planned, which makes the end run beyond the hour. And perhaps being tape delayed makes that worse, as stations don't seem to adjust commercials to get back on track until they are live again.

If there is a free timer, the default buffer (+2 min. end) saves the late endings. A few weeks ago, the TVGOS clock ran a minute fast, and 1minute extra was not enough to cover. Before the small time issue, I hadn't even noticed how late those shows had been running. But I can't imagine never having a recording gap, with ABC/FOX tending to run late, and CBS running a bit early.
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post #457 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jasew View Post

I got mine set up last night. I'll post a review next week after I've had a chance to use it a while and get used to how it works.

Can't you tease us with first impressions? Starving for info, here...
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post #458 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Sounds like you live in Pal DVR paradise if you get 1 week of PSIP and accurate clock data. So let me ask you this. If your clock is so accurate, why do you feel the need to pad your recordings by 1 minute on each end?

Because the networks are fuzzy about keeping their published schedules and can start a show earlier than they say or end it later.  I'm not talking about cases where the published schedule has a time a minute or two off from the hour or half-hour but rather when even that isn't held to accurately.

Also, the network's own clock can be off.

Finally, my DTVPal DVR and every Motorola DVR I've ever rented from Comcast can't record two consecutive events on the same channel without slicing out a few seconds in between.  If those few seconds come before the first program ends or after the second one begins, there is something missed that I might have wanted to see.  Scheduling the events with overlap (and thus using both timers) allows for that.

Now, if DVR software were written by people who actually watch television, that wouldn't be necessary: two consecutive events on the same channel would be recorded straight through on the same tuner, and the last thirty seconds of the first event and the first thirty seconds of the second event would be duplicated internally on the hard drive and be stored with both programs. If there is a third consecutive recording event on the same channel, the same thing would be done when the second ends and the third begins, etc.

But I'm just dreaming, of course.
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post #459 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dattier View Post

Now, if DVR software were written by people who actually watch television, that wouldn't be necessary: two consecutive events on the same channel would be recorded straight through on the same tuner, and the last thirty seconds of the first event and the first thirty seconds of the second event would be duplicated internally on the hard drive and be stored with both programs. If there is a third consecutive recording event on the same channel, the same thing would be done when the second ends and the third begins, etc.

But I'm just dreaming, of course.

We share the same dream. I often wonder if the programmer's of these units watch television, or even use the product. This subject probably has its own thread, so won't go off on a rant. I'm pretty sure a person working for GM drives their vehicles.

With our products coming from off-shore, it's no wonder we get items that are making us shake our heads. Some things I just can't understand.
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post #460 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 11:04 AM
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I would have to say I've been pretty satisfied with the 7000 as well. For me, it functions as a VCR would without the hassle of tapes (and higher quality of course).

Currently, for my main TV I'm running a HTPC, but with all the hassles of a maintaining a computer system (just for TV), I'm thinking seriously about the 7400.
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post #461 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

I would have to say I've been pretty satisfied with the 7000 as well. For me, it functions as a VCR would without the hassle of tapes (and higher quality of course).

Currently, for my main TV I'm running a HTPC, but with all the hassles of a maintaining a computer system (just for TV), I'm thinking seriously about the 7400.

I split the word in half. There is HT which I don't have. There is PC which I can use to watch TV. Watching TV is a hobbie for me, building things to watch TV is not. To achieve perfection, the HTPC concept is wonderful and I wish I had the space. It's an entropy thing. I come close with SACD and AVR for audio. I exist on time shifting. I have great admiration for those who pursue the HTPC road. But I'll take the freeway.
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post #462 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I often wonder if the programmer's of these units watch television, or even use the product. This subject probably has its own thread, so won't go off on a rant. I'm pretty sure a person working for GM drives their vehicles.

They ought to - they get a pretty hefty discount for them. Or at least I know they used to. My dad sure did. I don't remember what it was now, but it was at least 15%, if not even higher. He used to order them custom, directly though them (no dealers or salespeople), just wait for it, then pay cash. Sweet deal.
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post #463 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 12:50 PM
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They ought to - they get a pretty hefty discount for them. Or at least they used to. My dad sure did. I don't remember what it was now, but it was at least 15% - might have been 20%. I could've gotten one through him (or through my sister, who worked for them, too), but it just never worked out that I needed to. My dad used to order them completely custom at whatever the base prices were and just wait for it for a month or two, or whatever, and paid cash. Never had to deal with any dealers or salespeople. What a sweet deal.

I was going to mention that too. Once I had a Comcast tech come to look at my crappy signal. He thought it was ok, but told me he never watches TV. I'm not making this up. It's hard to get good help. It would be like buying a car from someone without a drivers license.
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post #464 of 1996 Old 12-22-2011, 05:34 PM
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I would love to have one of these machines, but $400 is way too much. I hope they drop to $250 or less by spring of 2013 because my Magnavox 513 will be full of music videos by then (unless Scripps drops The Cool Tv from KERO).

I can't believe I forgot to push the shift key when originally typing the dollar sign in this message. I hope everyone realized I meant $250 and not $4250!

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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post #465 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 05:31 AM
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I would love to have one of these machines, but $400 is way too much. I hope they drop to 4250 or less by spring of 2013 because my Magnavox 513 will be full of music videos by then (unless Scripps drops The Cool Tv from KERO).

It would probably be better to buy a refurb 2160A and change the firmware.

Amazon is down to three units. Should be some questions and comments soon.
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post #466 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 07:38 AM
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I would love to have one of these machines, but $400 is way too much. I hope they drop to 4250 or less

Sounds more as a price increase.

The $250 price point might be here sooner than that;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1262996

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #467 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 07:47 AM
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Amazon is down to 1 unit. I helped. Next Wednesday.
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post #468 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 08:41 AM
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At $400? LOL. You could've gotten a used Tivo S3/HD w/lifetime for less than that and done all the manual recording of clear QAM channels you want. That's probably all you're going to get with this unit if you don't pay for guide data anyway.
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post #469 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

At $400? LOL. You could've gotten a used Tivo S3/HD w/lifetime for less than that and done all the manual recording of clear QAM channels you want. That's probably all you're going to get with this unit if you don't pay for guide data anyway.

Since I'm cable I can't use the guide - my provider doesn't pass PSIP and screws up the SCTE-127. My fear is loss of TVGOS since I need it for the clock on my DHG units. I could have bought another 515H for 1/2 the price, but I wanted HD/5.1.

And I like new toys. It's a hobby and you never have to justify a hobby.
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post #470 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Sounds more as a price increase.

The $250 price point might be here sooner than that;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1262996

And how much with the required external HDD?

If it doesn't have an internal HDD, it's a tuner.
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post #471 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 09:33 AM
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It's a hobby and you never have to justify a hobby.

Except maybe to your wife.
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post #472 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 09:42 AM
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Except maybe to your wife.

I tried one once. Didn't work out so well. Expensive too.
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post #473 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 12:27 PM
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At $400? LOL. You could've gotten a used Tivo S3/HD w/lifetime for less than that and done all the manual recording of clear QAM channels you want. That's probably all you're going to get with this unit if you don't pay for guide data anyway.

That is completely inaccurate. I checked the Tivo website and the cost of the lifetime subscription alone is $499, so the price of the Tivo lifetime subscription is more than the Channel Master 7400 and that's without the cost of the Tivo hardware. Also, that $499 only covers the lifetime of the DVR that you purchase, not the lifetime of the person buying the DVR. So, if you buy a new Tivo in a couple of years, you'll have to pony up another $499 for another "lifetime" subscription.

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Product Lifetime service
$499.99
Pay once for the life of your DVR!
Coverage period: Includes a "Product Lifetime Subscription" to the TiVo service which covers the life of the TiVo box you buy, not the life of the subscriber. Once the Product Lifetime Subscription is activated on a TiVo box, it cannot be transferred to another TiVo box. The Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo box in the event of a change in ownership.

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post #474 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 03:14 PM
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That is completely inaccurate. I checked the Tivo website and the cost of the lifetime subscription alone is $499, so the price of the Tivo lifetime subscription is more than the Channel Master 7400 and that's without the cost of the Tivo hardware. Also, that $499 only covers the lifetime of the DVR that you purchase, not the lifetime of the person buying the DVR. So, if you buy a new Tivo in a couple of years, you'll have to pony up another $499 for another "lifetime" subscription.

Ummm, he was talking a "used" Tivo w/ lifetime included (as in a resale on Ebay), not new.

But then you have those issues of used vs. new, if that's important to you. From what I've read the OTA tuner on the new Tivo's (Premiere series) is pretty weak, and I'm OTA with an occasional dropout here and there. I don't want to degrade my signal much more. I've been happy with my 7000 and its tuning ability with my signal. But I've been getting more and more unhappy with my HTPC everyday, so I pulled the trigger on the 7400. Since I cut the cord from Directv, I figure the 7400 will be paid for in 5 months. I'm actually ok with about $4 a month for a program guide, that seems fair to me.

I'll post some info back here after setup if you guys are interested (getting it Tuesday).
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post #475 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 03:39 PM
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Yeah, I guess you can get one used, but personally, I would rather have a new 7400 over a used Tivo. You never know what kind of condition someone else's unit is going to be in with regards to smoke, water, wear, bugs(the insect kind), and dust. The 7400 has a 1 year warranty. Most used Tivos have 30 days at the most, and the majority of them don't have any at all. You're taking a big risk with a used unit and may end up having to buy another one a month later. Not worth it to me.
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post #476 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 04:15 PM
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I agree with you about used vs. new, but some people don't mind. (but I don't buy used cars anymore either, after having been burned a couple times! )

I think it all depends on what you want out of your TV experience and at what cost. I'm tired of fiddling with my HTPC and it's not wife friendly at all. I got her the 7000 for the other room. And while I can do a lot more with my HTPC, I find myself a bit envious of her just being able to click a couple buttons on a remote and watch.

No offense to anyone preferring a HTPC, if it's your thing, that's great.
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post #477 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 04:28 PM
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I agree with you. I could cobble together an HTPC, but I would rather have a unit that was designed to be a DVR for ease of use. Then you don't have to worry about setting it up, slow boot times, the numerous updates, virus scans, crashes, and blue screens. Plus, I don't like the idea of leaving a PC running 24/7 with all the heat, noise, and power consumption they have. So, to me, the 7400 looks like the best deal. More user-friendly than a HTPC, and cheaper, when you factor in service fees, than a new Tivo.
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post #478 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonR View Post

I agree with you. I could cobble together an HTPC, but I would rather have a unit that was designed to be a DVR for ease of use. Then you don't have to worry about setting it up, slow boot times, the numerous updates, virus scans, crashes, and blue screens. Plus, I don't like the idea of leaving a PC running 24/7 with all the heat, noise, and power consumption they have. So, to me, the 7400 looks like the best deal. More user-friendly than a HTPC, and cheaper, when you factor in service fees, than a new Tivo.

Many questions that we will need a while to answer. I'm sure I could design a really nice HTPC that would provide outstanding picture and sound with massive storage. Power though?

I have four HD Sony recorders each using 24 watts all the time. That's because they are always doing updates and other housekeeping. On Amazon a comment indicated a warm chassis. The power block displayed on one seller's site looked like 3A at 12V. So we know that 36W is probably max. But with an external block, why so warm? Don't know yet.

You are fortunate to have OTA. That's not in my future. So the guide may be useless. I hope there is some magic that will get me a clock from the internet. I hope next week a lot of questions will be answered. I hope I like the answers.
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post #479 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 05:35 PM
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I really want to go ahead and pull the trigger on this device, but my sensible side is wanting me to wait for more reviews, so I'm looking forward to reading more impressions from people that have already ordered it. The one thing that the 7400 must have, for me to buy it, is a strong tuner. I live in an area that only gets so-so OTA reception. My TV can't even pull in all of the local channels with an outdoor antenna. My DVD recorder can get all of the channels, so I'm hoping the 7400 is at least as good as that.
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post #480 of 1996 Old 12-23-2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonR View Post

So, to me, the 7400 looks like the best deal. More user-friendly than a HTPC, and cheaper, when you factor in service fees, than a new Tivo.

A new TiVo with guide costs $600 and you don't pay another penny again. Yes, $600 for a TiVo is more than $400 for a CM-7400 without guide -- no one can argue that. If you want to go minimalist and cheap, then go with the CM-7400. But don't fool yourself into thinking the CM-7400 is somehow better than the TiVo because it is cheaper. The CM-7400 is not in the same league even if you pay for the 7400's guide (which will equal the cost of a TiVo in 3yr).

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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