Channel Master TV CM 7400 HD DVR - OTA, Clear QAM, Internet Content - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I don't know exactly what Direct's pricing is these days, but with Dish, unless you need multiple TV's covered (you will get the first two covered for no extra cost, though), with or without extra DVR's, and you don't load up on movie or sports premiums, you can keep the price down to a considerable amount less then cable, even at their regular prices. Even with one DVR, which is only $6 more a month. You can also get Dish without a commitment, if you're willing to pay the $99 activation fee.

Check out Dish's all-HD, "DISH America" packages for the absolute best deals of all. The lowest one (they all include locals) is only $35/mo. (with a "no raise" guarantee through 2012. And unlike cable, when they do raise their prices, it's generally no more than $2-$3 a year)

Another good thing about satellite is that all of the receivers either have full-fledged, adjustable manual timers, or at the very least, some have "reminder" features.

And even another good thing is, you can tailor the channel lists in the guide to some degree, by deleting the channels you don't want (can't "re-arrange" them, though).

If some of those people over in the Magnavox HDD/DVD recorder threads would ever consider it, it could be an answer to a lot of their current issues. However, as a group, even among the ones who can actually have it, they're pretty resistant to even considering it. I guess the change is a little too scary of a thought for them.

My sister went dish because they offer service on any of their equipment no matter where it sits. She has a place in Florida. So when it's snow-bird time, she calls them up to activate the box. When she comes back to the frigid north, she calls again. Funny but FL uses the west coast satellite and PA uses the east coast satellite. Go figure.
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post #542 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

So far, it looks to me as if it was designed so that you will pretty much have to pay for the premium guide service.

The guide, as I have said many times, is for OTA/PSIP only. It doesn't know clear/raw QAM channel numbers unless a good PSIP is included. It does know my possible various headend feeds once I gave it my zipcode (including a few from nearby headends). The screen is very similar to the Titan TV selection display. It does, however, allow a manual mapping of physical to virtual channels. That would be a lot of work and subject to change without notice and I didn't try it. I'd bet a lot of lineups will change on Jan 2. I know I'm getting NBC Sports channel. I don't know where they will stick it or what may move to give it some space or if it will be scrambled. I will find out next week.

BTW, it displayed my channel numbers with three decimal places. The Sony shows four and the Magnavox shows one or two. And it displays "..." for the decimal places most of the time. Some screens show all three. some screens make the channel number wrap.

The QA people went on vacation during December. I hope they had a good time.
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post #543 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 06:48 PM
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Just from everything I know, using a working TVGOS signal has always been more reliable than PSIP.

I would hope, then, that for OTA'ers, the pay guide would make things even more reliable than TVGOS (especially with what that's turned into now - I say "now", rather than "lately", because it won't surprise me one bit if the situation doesn't improve - no matter who's "fault" it actually is).

So if you're stuck with having to pay for the guide for reliability - and I don't mean to sound like a pain here - but money-wise, at least for OTA, you'd be better off with something like the TiVo w/lifetime, for a standalone, HD DVR.

My main point I guess is that nobody should've expected these things to be 100% reliable without a reliable guide. Even with manual time setting. Just look to the last, few pages of the CM-7000 thread for the lowdown on that. For all intents and purposes, if you want to plan smart, you should accept that TVGOS is basically on the outs. And they're also screwing with time signals more than they ever were in the past now (maybe cable's still reliable - but then there's the clear-QAM issues. Even besides the stuff you mention, they are starting to cut out even the locals now).

Oh, well. In the case of this model at least, that's where the "gotcha", that almost forces you to have to at least try the paid guide comes in (and we don't even know yet how well that works). That's what I meant by "so far", and "purposely designed".
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post #544 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

Thanks for the info Kelson. Have you had any experience with Tivo Desktop Plus? I like the idea of being able to store/play my own video files on one device.

I use it all the time. I have it running on a server.

- kelson h

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post #545 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Just from everything I've heard here so far, it seems like using TVGOS, as with the Pal DVR, is better than PSIP.

I would hope, then, that the pay guide would make things even more reliable than TVGOS (especially with what that's turned into now - I say "now", rather than "lately", because it won't surprise me one bit if the situation doesn't improve).

So if you're stuck with having to pay for the guide for reliability - and I don't mean to sound like a pain here - you'd be better off with something like the TiVo w/lifetime.

My main point, really, is that nobody should've expected these things to have much reliability without a reliable guide. Even with manual time setting. Just look at the last, few pages of the CM-7000 thread for an example.

Oh, well. In the case of this model at least, that's where the "gotcha", that almost forces you to have to at least try the paid guide comes in. That's what I meant by "purposely designed".

A guide, be it CM, TitanTV, or TVGOS it should be better if it is from the internet. On my 7400, the clock was set as soon as the WiFi was enabled. It had no valid data (no shock) but I'm cable. My TV has TVGOS from the internet and it crashes my TV if I mess with it too much. The word unstable comes to mind. However my DHG DVR has no guide problems (when it has a guide) and it is injected into a cable analog channel. 2011 was a good year. 2009 and 2010 not so much. It's also geographically diverse, as you know Philly and NY are getting screwed with OTA guides right now.

I guess I can say you need a reliable guide and interface to have a reliable guide. I hate the guide, but you don't need a guide to have an unstable DVR.
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post #546 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

Kudos the Channel Master for seeing that, but I think they pushed the 7400 out too quickly, maybe trying to capitalize on the above. But I'm not happy with the performance of the 7400 and that's really what it comes down to. I guess I was expecting a better product after owning a 7000 and being very happy with it. I ordered a Tivo from Amazon and we'll see how that compares.

Channel Master doesn't make the CM-7000 and I seriously doubt they are anything more than a distributer for the CM-7400. I would be surprised if the CM-7400 was not made by the same people as the CM-7000 and I'm sure you are aware that the CM-7000 is nothing more than the Dish DTVPal DVR with the final F108 firmware (just some changes to take out Dish from the menus and put in Channel Master).

So if you want to compare the release of the CM-7400 to something, don't compare it to the CM-7000, but rather compare it to the release of the DTVPal DVR, which was a total disaster -- the initial firmware was so bad, the unit was pulled off the market for a couple months until they could make a salable product. Although the CM-7400 initial firmware doesn't look quite as bad, it will take several firmware revisions to get to a box people are willing to put up with as an OTA DVR. For you cable users -- sooner or later you will have to accept the fact that you are on a lock-down system. There is no hope of a feeless DVR for you -- one that actually works with some convenience and reliability, that is.

- kelson h

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post #547 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Channel Master doesn't make the CM-7000 and I seriously doubt they are anything more than a distributer for the CM-7400. I would be surprised if the CM-7400 was not made by the same people as the CM-7000 and I'm sure you are aware that the CM-7000 is nothing more than the Dish DTVPal DVR with the final F108 firmware (just some changes to take out Dish from the menus and put in Channel Master).

Ok, but the 7000 has the CM logo on it, and one might (reasonably?) think they have some idea of what it's about, even if they didn't make it. And you're right about actual manufacture of any item, but in today's world who knows who actually makes what?

But in this case, I think CM might wish they had done better by this box. They are gonna get a LOT of returns.
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post #548 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Channel Master doesn't make the CM-7000 and I seriously doubt they are anything more than a distributer for the CM-7400. I would be surprised if the CM-7400 was not made by the same people as the CM-7000 and I'm sure you are aware that the CM-7000 is nothing more than the Dish DTVPal DVR with the final F108 firmware (just some changes to take out Dish from the menus and put in Channel Master).

So if you want to compare the release of the CM-7400 to something, don't compare it to the CM-7000, but rather compare it to the release of the DTVPal DVR, which was a total disaster -- the initial firmware was so bad, the unit was pulled off the market for a couple months until they could make a salable product. Although the CM-7400 initial firmware doesn't look quite as bad, it will take several firmware revisions to get to a box people are willing to put up with as an OTA DVR. For you cable users -- sooner or later you will have to accept the fact that you are on a lock-down system. There is no hope of a feeless DVR for you -- one that actually works with some convenience and reliability, that is.

It's not fair that you are always right. I'm "lucky" to have no OTA I guess. Perhaps I should get another 515H and learn to live with SD. Or perhaps adapt to the BV-980H. Or read books.
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post #549 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

But in this case, I think CM might wish they had done better by this box. They are gonna get a LOT of returns.

So just be a little patient, and you should be able to eventually get them "refurbished" for a lot less.
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post #550 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

So just be a little patient, and you should be able to eventually get them "refurbished" for a lot less.

Patience? What's that?

I just got a notice that the Tivo should be here tomorrow. If it doesn't pull in a decent OTA signal, I think I might be torrenting for awhile, and *gulp* be forced to watch 'live' TV!
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post #551 of 1996 Old 12-29-2011, 08:35 PM
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...Perhaps I should get another 515H and learn to live with SD. Or perhaps adapt to the BV-980H. Or read books.

Man, HD spoiled my eyes. When they put on a SD signal they start to bleed!

Seriously, I'm old enough to remember the transition from black & white to color TV. It was so awesome there was no going back, and SD to HD feels much the same for me. Then again, DVD to Blu Ray doesn't seem to be such a jump, but that's another story.
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post #552 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

Man, HD spoiled my eyes. When they put on a SD signal they start to bleed!

Seriously, I'm old enough to remember the transition from black & white to color TV. It was so awesome there was no going back, and SD to HD feels much the same for me. Then again, DVD to Blu Ray doesn't seem to be such a jump, but that's another story.

I don't want to stray too far off topic, but I find digital 480i good, just not as good as 1080i. I seldom need to view analog, but on a large screen that would cause pain. I disable 1080p/24 and keep it at 1080p/60, but that's another story.
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post #553 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 07:29 AM
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As a recent convert to Antenna-dom and now a new member to this forum I immediately had to read all 50+ pages of this thread and it has certainly helped me to fight the urge to buy the 7400.

My dreams of a perfect OTA DVR have been crushed for the time being. And while I patiently await the arrival of a new Savior, I will look for solace in TiVo or perhaps a refurb after many firmware updates.

Has anyone here who bought the 7400 plan on keeping it for the long haul?

Has anyone addressed the issue of privacy on TV/WEB usage? I heard TiVo once (maybe still?) was using the subscription service to monitor and sell data on what customers watched. Couldn't the third party who handles the CM7400 subscription do the same? I asked CM but got no replay. Maybe still on holiday. Sorry if I'm getting off the subject here.
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post #554 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by frizztone View Post

As a recent convert to Antenna-dom and now a new member to this forum I immediately had to read all 50+ pages of this thread and it has certainly helped me to fight the urge to buy the 7400.

My dreams of a perfect OTA DVR have been crushed for the time being. And while I patiently await the arrival of a new Savior, I will look for solace in TiVo or perhaps a refurb after many firmware updates.

Has anyone here who bought the 7400 plan on keeping it for the long haul?

Has anyone addressed the issue of privacy on TV/WEB usage? I heard TiVo once (maybe still?) was using the subscription service to monitor and sell data on what customers watched. Couldn't the third party who handles the CM7400 subscription do the same? I asked CM but got no replay. Maybe still on holiday. Sorry if I'm getting off the subject here.

You are.

But there is one positive review on Amazon. I've decided to crawl into a hole, pull a rock on top, and check every month or so.
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post #555 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 08:05 AM
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In today's Fry's ad:

http://www.frys.com/ads/page7

Maybe an openedbox discount opportunity in a few weeks...

Umm, still need to check if there's an official display setup.
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post #556 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frizztone View Post

As a recent convert to Antenna-dom and now a new member to this forum I immediately had to read all 50+ pages of this thread and it has certainly helped me to fight the urge to buy the 7400.

My dreams of a perfect OTA DVR have been crushed for the time being. And while I patiently await the arrival of a new Savior, I will look for solace in TiVo or perhaps a refurb after many firmware updates.

Has anyone here who bought the 7400 plan on keeping it for the long haul?

Has anyone addressed the issue of privacy on TV/WEB usage? I heard TiVo once (maybe still?) was using the subscription service to monitor and sell data on what customers watched. Couldn't the third party who handles the CM7400 subscription do the same? I asked CM but got no replay. Maybe still on holiday. Sorry if I'm getting off the subject here.

I remember reading about TiVo's data collection, it was an "opt in" sample, with no shortage of volunteers. Intriguing info for advertisers, second-by-second tracking of button presses, FF vs replay.

I'd be interested in hearing the answer to your privacy inquiry, and how long it takes to get a response. That Amazon reviewer who was promised a temporary premium guide while they fixed the PSIP bug said he waited a week with no results.



My local Fry's has never had a working display for CM boxes. I'm surprised they are marketing it as a "converter box."
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post #557 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by frizztone View Post

As a recent convert to Antenna-dom and now a new member to this forum I immediately had to read all 50+ pages of this thread and it has certainly helped me to fight the urge to buy the 7400.

Glad to hear it. I certainly wanted to like this box, but the more I played with it, the more I disliked it. The remote functions are laggy as all get out (IF they register at all). That was whether I used the included remote or a universal remote. That in itself was driving me crazy.

But then all the other little things start to add up. Like who designed SOME selections trees to 'wrap around' (as in when you reach the bottom, the next down press takes you to the top of the list), and yet other trees stop dead at the bottom and make you press up? Or when you plug in a USB drive you get a popup and it works fine. But leave that menu to watch live/recorded TV and you can't get back to the drive without an unplug/plug (it just hangs at the directory).

Oh, one more thing. Thinking the RF would be a pass thru of my OTA signal, I hooked that up. Nope, its an RF to the box only. Think Ch. 3 or 4 for a VCR and that's it. Wow, was that picture bad. Now who in the world would buy this thing and want to use that when there are plenty of other outputs in other (better) formats?

I'm beginning to think my 2 star review on Amazon was too generous.

Anyway, as I said before, nice idea, poor implementation. Dunno if it can be saved by updates or not, but for $400, I'm not waiting around to see.
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post #558 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

Glad to hear it. I certainly wanted to like this box, but the more I played with it, the more I disliked it. The remote functions are laggy as all get out (IF they register at all). That was whether I used the included remote or a universal remote. That in itself was driving me crazy.

But then all the other little things start to add up. Like who designed SOME selections trees to 'wrap around' (as in when you reach the bottom, the next down press takes you to the top of the list), and yet other trees stop dead at the bottom and make you press up? Or when you plug in a USB drive you get a popup and it works fine. But leave that menu to watch live/recorded TV and you can't get back to the drive without an unplug/plug (it just hangs at the directory).

Oh, one more thing. Thinking the RF would be a pass thru of my OTA signal, I hooked that up. Nope, its an RF to the box only. Think Ch. 3 or 4 for a VCR and that's it. Wow, was that picture bad. Now who in the world would buy this thing and want to use that when there are plenty of other outputs in other (better) formats?

I'm beginning to think my 2 star review on Amazon was too generous.

Anyway, as I said before, nice idea, poor implementation. Dunno if it can be saved by updates or not, but for $400, I'm not waiting around to see.

The slaved channel 3/4 was in the docs. I gave it one star because no star is not an option.

I still can't believe that after a channel scan every "found" channel was turned off. I don't mind being a beta tester, but I deserve a kiss first.

Still no customer reviews on walmart.com either.
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post #559 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by frizztone View Post

I heard TiVo once (maybe still?) was using the subscription service to monitor and sell data on what customers watched.

Oh, they still are, believe me. I got definite proof of that a few weeks back (won't get into the details here, though. All I'll say is that they've pissed me off royally).
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post #560 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 12:50 PM
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I am a little confused after reading most the recent posts as to how exactly the various program options actually worked. Did anyone ever see the premium (upgrade) and what did it look like and how well did it work for OTA? What did the the basic program schedule look like? Did it give one day, two days, a week or (?) Is there any way to get the TVGOS on the 7400 or was it completely eliminated? If the basic is worse than the 7000 then for those of us using OTA this is actually a downgrade except for a slightly larger HDD.
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post #561 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

I am a little confused after reading most the recent posts as to how exactly the various program options actually worked. Did anyone ever see the premium (upgrade) and what did it look like and how well did it work for OTA? What did the the basic program schedule look like? Did it give one day, two days, a week or (?) Is there any way to get the TVGOS on the 7400 or was it completely eliminated? If the basic is worse than the 7000 then for those of us using OTA this is actually a downgrade except for a slightly larger HDD.

I'm sorry, but it's hard to check the gas milage when the car don't start.

I ran into so many issue that having a guide of any kind was too unimportant. I couldn't test the guide anyhow since I'm cable only. I did get a perfect clock, and after entering my zipcode it asked for my specific cable headend. I tried two and they looked the same - empty. It has a channel map ability but I never used it. Sorry.
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post #562 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 02:32 PM
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CM doesn't show much improvement in recording storage, for a drive that's 28% bigger. CM's specs show the 7400 gaining 5 hours in HD recording capacity (16.7% improvement), but shows no difference at all in SD hours (150 hours for both). I'm guessing the 7400 has 175 SD hours, and hope CM starts paying more attention to online facts. It only takes one error to put all facts in doubt, and I've already seen 4 apparent mistakes.
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post #563 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

CM doesn't show much improvement in recording storage, for a drive that's 28% bigger. CM's specs show the 7400 gaining 5 hours in HD recording capacity (16.7% improvement), but shows no difference at all in SD hours (150 hours for both). I'm guessing the 7400 has 175 SD hours, and hope CM starts paying more attention to online facts. It only takes one error to put all facts in doubt, and I've already seen 4 apparent mistakes.

Perhaps SD is 480i and HD is a mix of 720p and 1080i. That would make a change in HD time depending on the split on the HD content. Just a guess.

One error? I wish. Fry's spec sheet doesn't even pass a spell check.
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post #564 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

I am a little confused after reading most the recent posts as to how exactly the various program options actually worked. Did anyone ever see the premium (upgrade) and what did it look like and how well did it work for OTA? What did the the basic program schedule look like? Did it give one day, two days, a week or (?) Is there any way to get the TVGOS on the 7400 or was it completely eliminated? If the basic is worse than the 7000 then for those of us using OTA this is actually a downgrade except for a slightly larger HDD.

No one was going to pay $50 for a program guide when the box didn't work correctly, so I doubt you see much detail. It would have been nice for CM to give a 2 week trial, but no dice. That said, I think it looked exactly like the basic schedule only 14 days out, which is to say it was functional, but nothing special. I couldn't find anything to say whether it was a 'time based' or 'name based' recorder. CM never returned my request for info. In my case, the OTA guide I was getting was anywhere from 10-24 hours in advance. I've heard of some getting 2 days in advance, but it depends on your broadcasters. Manual recording was a nightmare as posted elsewhere. TVGOS was completely eliminated from this box.

You're right about the 7000 vs. the 7400, IMHO.
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post #565 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 03:14 PM
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Well, it is just an estimate re HD hours, but the question is, why does CM show the same SD capacity for the CM7000 (250Gb) and CM7400 (320Gb)? Since the 7400 holds more HD hours than the 7000, it's reasonable to expect that it also holds more SD hours than the 7000.

I've seen Fry's typos, but then again, they aren't the owner of the product design. But maybe I'm giving Fry's too big of a break. I do think the mfg's specs should be carefully checked, because the responsibility for accurate product description begins with the product owner. If they can't accurately describe their own product, there's little hope for accurate description among authorized sellers. I would expect the mfg. to use tech writers and marketing experts in writing the product description. And I expect Fry's has minimum wage clerks with imperfect typing skills, lol.
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post #566 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Well, it is just an estimate re HD hours, but the question is, why does CM show the same SD capacity for the CM7000 (250Gb) and CM7400 (320Gb)? Since the 7400 holds more HD hours than the 7000, it's reasonable to expect that it also holds more SD hours than the 7000.

Just guessing but could the discrepancy be due to the 7000 having a analog tuner(and being able to record analog channels) and the 7400 being able to record just digital 480i(SD) channels? Again just guessing but I might think converting a analog channel to digital may take more room than a already compressed digital channel SD channel...
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post #567 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Well, it is just an estimate re HD hours, but the question is, why does CM show the same SD capacity for the CM7000 (250Gb) and CM7400 (320Gb)? Since the 7400 holds more HD hours than the 7000, it's reasonable to expect that it also holds more SD hours than the 7000.

I've seen Fry's typos, but then again, they aren't the owner of the product design. But maybe I'm giving Fry's too big of a break. I do think the mfg's specs should be carefully checked, because the responsibility for accurate product description begins with the product owner. If they can't accurately describe their own product, there's little hope for accurate description among authorized sellers. I would expect the mfg. to use tech writers and marketing experts in writing the product description. And I expect Fry's has minimum wage clerks with imperfect typing skills, lol.

It would be nice if CM had some form of feedback forum on their site even if it's ignored like the Brite-view site. I didn't notice the change is disk size, so all specs can be questioned.

On the positive side, UPS is making money on this product.
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post #568 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve771 View Post

No one was going to pay $50 for a program guide when the box didn't work correctly, so I doubt you see much detail. It would have been nice for CM to give a 2 week trial, but no dice. That said, I think it looked exactly like the basic schedule only 14 days out, which is to say it was functional, but nothing special. I couldn't find anything to say whether it was a 'time based' or 'name based' recorder. CM never returned my request for info. In my case, the OTA guide I was getting was anywhere from 10-24 hours in advance. I've heard of some getting 2 days in advance, but it depends on your broadcasters. Manual recording was a nightmare as posted elsewhere. TVGOS was completely eliminated from this box.

You're right about the 7000 vs. the 7400, IMHO.

Care to speculate what caused my 7400 clock to get set after I had WiFi working? I am cable and receive no PSIP data unless it's hidden on some scrambled channel.
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post #569 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 03:48 PM
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Maybe it gets time from one of the internet time sites?

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normal on a two month old set..
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post #570 of 1996 Old 12-30-2011, 03:53 PM
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Maybe it gets time from one of the internet time sites?

Probably. There was a few minutes where it downloaded something after I connected to my ISP.
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