Channel Master TV CM 7400 HD DVR - OTA, Clear QAM, Internet Content - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 1996 Old 09-16-2011, 09:52 PM
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Why does it have three wifi antennae as shown in http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/201..._wifi_Back.jpg ? That's nuts.

I did notice it has an ESATA port! Does that mean external storage finally?
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post #32 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 05:19 AM
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With three Sony DVR's and experience with the former Dish DVR, from what has been posted here and through reviews and the CM website, this is what I see as the pros & cons of this:

Pros;
1. A DVR you own, not rent or lease,
2. Unlike TiVo, PSIP guide data is available, though very limited with most stations. I assume manual recording can be done if no data shows like the former DTV Pal,
3. OTA and Cable TV capable, apparently no analog (but see below),
4. External eSATA & dual USB ports (but see below),
5. Flat top enclosure, unlike the Pal DVR where you can't stack anything on top of unit (depending on size of device and as long as the wireless feature isn't used),
6. Menu access from front panel (if the remote dies, you still have access unlike the Pal),
7. Simple, front panel 'reset' (by holding power button for 5 seconds),
8. 1080p/30 output (but no 1080p/60),
9. Wireless Ethernet, (but only for non TV use?)
10.

Cons;
1. Price, especially considering the small HDD and the additional subscription fee that they advertise as "free". (Local PSIP data borders on useless AFAIC),
2. Optional subscription of $100 a year for full guide data (7 days) is overpriced. $50 to $75 would be more reasonable,
3. Only one RF input. This is a real mistake, considering the dual capability!,
4. Brick' power supply. Cost cutting for a $400 piece of equipment?
5. Unnecessary clock on front panel.
6. 90 day labor warranty (1 year parts),
7. Small HDD (by todays standards & for the price),
8. No Netflix (but this is suppose to be a DVR, not a PC),
9. Arrangement of the transport buttons on the remote needs to be rethought (not really a biggie),
10. Attached, non removable WiFi antennas (purposely to limit range, two would of been enough),
11. As reported in the link in the post below, the eSATA port apparently is not activated! Another device with a planned feature that won't be implicated??

Concerns/issues/comments;
1. Unknown where the 'pay' Guide data comes from (Rovi or somewhere else),
2. Add channel capability for both OTA & CATV?,
3. Skip ahead and back times: Are they adjustable like the Sony, or fixed like the Pal?,
4. Ability to actually add a 2nd HDD with the eSAT & USB ports? Can the unit see more than one drive?,
5. Ability to change the HDD to something larger, saving those recording to archive like the Pal?,
6. Swap and move the HDD to another deck like the DTV Pal?
7. Usefulness of USB port for something other than just viewing media (Towers & Laptops do this just fine),
8. Future ability to 'flash' the firmware and if CM will either bother doing so unlike the Pal?
9. How easy or hard will this be to 'open up'? Another Pal?
10.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #33 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 05:20 AM
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Ok, what did I leave out?

Here is another review in addition to ones already mentioned;
http://tivolovers.livejournal.com/792159.html

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #34 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

It hasn't been out that long. Dec 2009, as I recall.

The Pal was released in December 2008.
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post #35 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 09:05 AM
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The fee based guide is a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.
I'll stick with my DTVPal DVR.
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post #36 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 09:30 AM
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The fee based guide is a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.

That's one huge plus with the Sony. FULL guide, no fees (if you have reliable guide data available).

I don't mind a reasonable fee, but $9 a month just for ones and zeros is not reasonable. I remember when CATV service was $9 a month.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #37 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 09:58 AM
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My DTVPal DVR only has an 8 day guide (actually 7 + change) but its free.
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post #38 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 10:03 AM
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All of your local stations with full listings, no PSIP 3 or 6 hour fill ins??
Then you are lucky.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #39 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

All of your local stations with full listings, no PSIP 3 or 6 hour fill ins??
Then you are lucky.

Full listings for all but one.
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post #40 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 11:32 AM
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videobruce, where did you read that the $100/year guide would be 14 days? Their site FAQs said it would be 7 days.
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post #41 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Couple things that caught my eye:
....$100/year for upgraded 7 day guide service(not not 14 days like other guide services) if PSIPs limited guide doesn't cut it for you.
IMO $400 seems a bit steep for a 12hr guide recorder(could be more but not guaranteed) and $100/yr. for a 7 day guide again seems kind of high......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

videobruce, where did you read that the $100/year guide would be 14 days? Their site FAQs said it would be 7 days.

Yes only 7 days(like the free TVGOS) which I noted in post #8.
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post #42 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Yes only 7 days(like the free TVGOS) which I noted in post #8.

$100 a year for that is a total rip-off IMO.
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post #43 of 1996 Old 09-17-2011, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Ok, what did I leave out?

Here is another review in addition to ones already mentioned;
http://tivolovers.livejournal.com/792159.html

That's actually a repost of the original over on Gizmo Lovers:
http://www.gizmolovers.com/2011/09/1...ative-to-tivo/
http://www.gizmolovers.com/2011/09/1...ess-appealing/

-MegaZone, Gizmo Lovers
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post #44 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 04:52 AM
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Quote:


videobruce, where did you read that the $100/year guide would be 14 days? Their site FAQs said it would be 7 days.

Thanks, I corrected the guide day count. Read so much, I must of confused something written for 14 days.
Quote:


$100 a year for that is a total rip-off IMO.

TiVo is now supposedly charging $10 a month for their OTA only listings, so it's $20 less. Still high, but I wouldn't call it a "total" ripoff.
Quote:


That's actually a repost of the original over on Gizmo Lovers:

But, that link wasn't posted anywhere in this thread that I saw.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #45 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 05:22 AM
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Do you really want to deal with TiVo's fine print? (Attorney optional) ;
Quote:


Updated May 2011

Introduction

TiVo Inc. ("TiVo") offers certain registered account holders of subscriptions to the TiVo service, as further specified herein, a multi-service discount (the "MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT") on new TiVo service subscription activations only under the following terms and conditions. This agreement explains the terms and conditions that will apply to your eligibility for, and receipt of, a MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT in connection with your use of the TiVo service, and constitutes a legally binding agreement between you and TiVo. By using the TiVo service, you agree to all the terms and conditions in this agreement ("Agreement").

Your TiVo® Service Agreement

This Agreement specifically incorporates into it, and is governed by, the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement and the terms of your TiVo Payment Plan.

Multi-Service Discount qualifications
Initial Qualification. You must be the registered account holder of a current paid Monthly or Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service, as further defined below, to qualify for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT (a "Qualifying Subscription"):
TiVo Service Subscription: A Qualifying Subscription must be a current, full-priced Monthly or Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service, made directly with TiVo (as opposed to with a third party service provider such as DIRECTV) in order to qualify for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. For instance, DIRECTV DVRs with the TiVo service are ineligible to qualify as a Qualifying Subscription or to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
Monthly Service Subscription. If you are the registered account holder of a full-priced Monthly Service Subscription to the TiVo service, your subscription must be fully paid, active and in good standing, paid on a Monthly basis. Promotional TiVo service subscriptions (e.g. free or discounted TiVo service rates), unless otherwise designated in the terms and conditions for such promotional subscriptions, are not eligible to be Qualifying Subscriptions.
Product Lifetime Subscription. If you are the registered account holder of a full-priced Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service, your Product Lifetime Subscription must be fully paid, active and in good standing. Your TiVo DVR to which the Product Lifetime Subscription is attached must have called into the TiVo service within the last 180 days to remain eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.

General Eligibility. In addition to the requirements for Initial Qualification detailed above, the following additional General Eligibility requirements also must be complied with in their entirety:
MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT for New Subscriptions Only. Beginning July 19, 2007, the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT will ONLY be applied to eligible new TiVo service subscriptions (defined below). The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT cannot be applied to existing TiVo service subscriptions. For purposes of clarity, this means, for example, that if you have an existing full-priced Monthly Subscription to the TiVo service and then purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service, the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT cannot be applied to your existing full-priced Monthly Subscription, only future new eligible TiVo service subscriptions (defined below). Existing TiVo service subscriptions are not eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. However, TiVo service subscriptions currently receiving the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT shall continue to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT as long as there remains a Qualifying Subscription on the same TiVo customer account.
Same Registered Account Holder. The TiVo DVRs associated with all new TiVo service subscriptions activations eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT must be registered to the same TiVo customer account.
Same TiVo Service Address. The TiVo DVRs associated with all new TiVo service subscription activations eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT must be located and calling in from the same TiVo service address as the Qualifying Subscription.
Limited Number Of TiVo Service Subscriptions. The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT is limited to a maximum of five (5) additional TiVo service subscriptions per TiVo customer account. For example, a registered account holder with one Qualifying Subscription may add up to an additional five (5) new TiVo service subscriptions activations at the reduced MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT price to his or her account. The sixth (6th) additional TiVo service subscription would not qualify for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT and would be charged at the full TiVo service subscription price.
Compliance With Service Agreement. All terms of each of the registered account holder's TiVo Service Agreements and TiVo Payment Plan, as applicable, must be fully complied with at all times to be eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.




Subscriptions Eligible for Multi-Service Discount
Discounted TiVo Service Fee. The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT reduces the $19.99 Monthly TiVo service subscription to $14.99 per month, the $12.95 Monthly TiVo service subscription fee to $9.95 per month, and the $499.99 Product Lifetime service subscription to $399.99, while in compliance with all applicable Initial Qualification and General Eligibility requirements on new eligible TiVo service subscription activations (not existing TiVo service subscriptions). Only new full-priced $19.99 or $12.95 monthly TiVo service or Product Lifetime service subscription activations are eligible to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
TiVo Service Cancellation. If the registered account holder's Qualifying Subscription is cancelled or otherwise becomes ineligible, the oldest eligible TiVo service subscription on the account shall become the registered account holder's Qualifying Subscription and will no longer receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. TiVo service subscriptions currently receiving the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT shall continue to receive the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT as long as there remains a Qualifying Subscription in accordance with these terms on the same TiVo customer account.
TIVO RESERVES THE RIGHT TO IMMEDIATELY SUSPEND OR TERMINATE YOUR TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION AND/OR YOUR USE OF THE MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT IF YOU GIVE TIVO INACCURATE OR INCOMPLETE INFORMATION OR IF YOU ARE NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR THE MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.
Changes To The MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT. TiVo reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to increase or decrease the amount of the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or discontinue the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT or change any of the terms, restrictions, or conditions for eligibility for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT at any time, for any reason. If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT and/or the TiVo service, you may immediately cancel your use of the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT and/or the TiVo service (subject to any applicable early termination fees, if any) as provided in the TiVo Service Agreement or the terms of your TiVo Payment Plan, as applicable.


BY USING THE TIVO SERVICE AND RECEIVING THE MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT, I REPRESENT THAT I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THIS ENTIRE AGREEMENT, THE TIVO SERVICE AGREEMENT AND THE TERMS OF YOUR TIVO PAYMENT PLAN, AND I AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, THE TIVO SERVICE AGREEMENT, AND THE TERMS OF YOUR TIVO PAYMENT PLAN AS STATED ABOVE AND INCORPORATED INTO THIS AGREEMENT.


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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #46 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 05:27 AM
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Then there is this;
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TiVo Service Agreement
Updated August 2008
Introduction

Welcome to TiVo and the TiVo® service! This agreement explains the terms and conditions that will apply to your use of the TiVo service and constitutes a legally binding agreement between you and TiVo Inc. ("TiVo"). By using the TiVo service, you agree to all the terms and conditions in this agreement ("Agreement").
The TiVo Service and the Privacy Policy

1. Terms of Service. The TiVo logo on your Digital Video Recorder (your "TiVo DVR") means that it can receive the TiVo service offered and provided by TiVo for personal, non-commercial use on a subscription basis. Your activation and continued use of the TiVo service is subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. TiVo may at its discretion change the terms of this Agreement. Such changes are effective upon notification by TiVo. We encourage you to check www.tivo.com/privacy or call TiVo Customer Service at 1-877-367-8486 for a copy of the current TiVo service agreement. If you are dissatisfied with any changes to this Agreement, you may cancel your use of the TiVo service as provided in Section 15 ("Termination of Service").

2. TiVo's Privacy Policy. You must provide us with accurate and complete information when you activate your TiVo service. TiVo reserves the right to terminate your account if you give TiVo inaccurate or incomplete information. TiVo respects the privacy of your User Information (as defined in TiVo's Privacy Policy) and will not disclose any of your User Information except as permitted in TiVo's Privacy Policy. A copy of TiVo's Privacy Policy is included in the product manual and the latest version can always be found via our web site at www.tivo.com/privacy. Please read it carefully before using the TiVo service. By using the TiVo service, you agree to the terms and conditions of our Privacy Policy and affirm that you understand the options TiVo provides to you with regard to your User Information. TiVo will notify you of any substantial and material changes to the Privacy Policy and the latest Privacy Policy can always be accessed through our web site at www.tivo.com/privacy.

3. The TiVo Service. The TiVo service consists of program guide information and the following features: (a) Season Pass–® recording automatically finds and records every episode of a series all season long; (b) WishList® search - finds and records programs that feature your favorite actor, director, team or even topic; (c) Smart Recording - automatically detects program line-up changes for your cable/satellite provider and adjusts recording times so you don't have to worry about the details; (d) TiVo Suggestions – TiVo can be programmed to suggest and auto-record programs that may match your interests; and (e) Parental Controls – lock channels or set ratings limits based on content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The "TiVo service" means these features and any additional features and functionality of the TiVo DVR that TiVo may, at its discretion and from time to time, offer.

3.1 Online Scheduling Feature. The TiVo service enables you to schedule recordings on a TiVo DVR with a USB port on the rear panel of the TiVo DVR using the Internet. The terms and conditions governing the use of the Online Scheduling feature are contained in the TiVo Website Terms and Conditions, available at www.tivo.com/webpolicy. Please note that when you activate a TiVo service subscription, the Online Scheduling feature is always turned on. The Online Scheduling feature cannot be turned off unless this Agreement is terminated. This means that if you purchase your network-enabled TiVo DVR with Product Lifetime Service from another individual, the seller will be able to schedule recordings to the TiVo DVR until you contact TiVo and have the TiVo service subscription for the TiVo DVR transferred to your own account.

3.2 Graphical Elements. From time to time, your TiVo DVR may cause graphics and/or text to be superimposed over commercial advertisements or present you with other advertising viewing options. For example, graphic "tags" may permit you to press the Thumbs Up button to (i) schedule a recording of an advertised program; (ii) view special video clips or other information about the advertised product or service; and/or (iii) perform some other action. Any such tags are placed on top of the commercial advertisements by TiVo or its licensees on behalf of the advertiser and not at the direction of any other party.

3.3 Network-Enabled TiVo Service Features. You must have a network-enabled TiVo DVR to use any network-enabled TiVo service features such as music, photos and Multi-Room Viewing (see Section 3.3.1 below), access to PC-Based Media (see Section 3.3.2 below)), TiVoToGo feature (see Section 3.3.3 below), and third party download or streaming services. A network-enabled TiVo DVR has an established network connection through the TiVo DVR's built-in USB port (including a wired (Ethernet) or wireless USB network adapter); is running a TiVo software version that supports home networking; and has an active subscription to the TiVo service. Some network-enabled TiVo service features require installation of the then-current TiVo Desktop application (www.tivo.com/desktop) on a home computer that is connected to the same home network as your TiVo DVR. Some TiVo service features require a broadband connection to the Internet through the home network. The Multi-Room Viewing feature requires two network-enabled TiVo DVRs that are enabled for Multi-Room Viewing. The TiVoToGo feature requires a TiVo DVR that is running a TiVo software version that supports that feature.

Not all TiVo DVRs are able to use network-enabled features. Moreover, even among TiVo's network-enabled DVRs, the Multi-Room Viewing feature may not permit particular TiVo DVRs to transfer content among one another due to compatibility issues among manufacturers or copy protection mechanisms used by copyright owners, studios or broadcasters. In addition, the TiVoToGo feature may not permit particular TiVo DVRs to transfer content to home computers for the same reasons. Please visit our TiVo Home Media Features FAQs at www.tivo.com/mediafaq for details.

The Multi-Room Viewing and TiVoToGo features are also turned on by default when you subscribe to the TiVo service. You may turn these features off using Manage My Account at www.tivo.com/manage.

3.3.1 Multi-Room Viewing Feature. You must have at least two (2) TiVo network-enabled DVRs each with a TiVo service subscription to take advantage of the Multi-Room Viewing feature. The Multi-Room Viewing feature is intended solely to enable the transfer of content among TiVo DVRs within a single household. Using the Multi-Room Viewing feature, you may transfer content only among TiVo DVRs on the same TiVo account and only among TiVo DVRs on the same network subnet. For example, if one TiVo DVR in your home resides on your network at 192.168.1.5, any TiVo DVR used for Multi-Room Viewing must reside on that same network, having an IP address of 192.168.1.x. Any TiVo DVR that resides on a different network, such as a TiVo DVR with an IP address of 192.168.2.5, is not permitted to participate in Multi-Room Viewing. In addition, you may only transfer content among ten (10) TiVo DVRs on a single TiVo account within your household. Unauthorized transfers or distribution of copyrighted works outside of your home may constitute an infringement of the rights of copyright holders. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of this Agreement either to an unauthorized device or otherwise.

3.3.2 Access to PC-Based Media. Access to media that is stored on your home computer ("PC-based media") via your TiVo DVR is provided through the TiVo Desktop application, which is available at www.tivo.com/desktop. The TiVo Desktop application permits you to access PC-based media from your TiVo DVR via your home network.

The TiVo Desktop application itself does not contain any security mechanisms that would prevent third parties from accessing your home network. If your home network has Internet access but does not include a firewall, information on your home network can be easily seen by anyone on the Internet. Most firewall products stop all traffic originating from the Internet, protecting your systems from malicious network attacks or curious browsers interested in the files you have on your computer. A firewall can be installed to protect an individual computer or to protect a whole home network. Because the TiVo Desktop application makes media (e.g., music, photos) you publish to your TiVo DVR available on your home network, TiVo recommends that you install a firewall that protects your home network. If your network does not include a firewall, Internet users may be able to access PC-based media on your network or other information on your computer, such as personal financial data. TiVo strongly suggests you take steps to protect your home network from unwanted intruders. Routers and home gateways, available at most electronics stores, may include a firewall meant to protect your home network.

Some third-party PC-based applications may also enable access to PC-based media through your TiVo service. Such applications may or may not include built-in security mechanisms. TiVo is not responsible for and does not warrant the use, behavior, or performance of such applications.

TiVo service features that enable access to PC-based media are intended solely to enable you to access media that resides on your home computer for personal, noncommercial use. Viewing or listening to media from third party sources could subject your TiVo DVR and/or home computer to harm and may infringe the copyrights of third parties.

3.3.3 TiVoToGo Feature. The TiVoToGo feature is intended to enable you to transfer a copy of a program that you have recorded on a TiVo DVR to one or more home computers or other portable viewing devices (collectively referred to as "Personal Viewing Devices") within the same household using the TiVo Desktop application. Once a copy of a program is stored on a home computer, the TiVo Desktop application enables you to select the program for viewing on Personal Viewing Devices using third party media player applications. TiVo is not responsible for and does not warrant the use, behavior, or performance of such third party applications.

Using the TiVoToGo feature, you may transfer content only between TiVo DVRs to Personal Viewing Devices on the same network subnet. For a discussion of network subnets, please see Section 3.3.1 above. The TiVoToGo feature is provided solely for personal, non-commercial use. Unauthorized transfers or distribution of copyrighted works outside of your home may constitute an infringement of the rights of copyright holders. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who transfer or distribute content in violation of this Agreement—either to an unauthorized device or otherwise.

The TiVoToGo feature includes security measures designed to prevent infringement of copyrighted works. You agree not to take any steps to defeat any TiVo security measures or to use any third party applications that may bypass any TiVo security measures.

Not all programs may be transferred using the TiVoToGo feature. For example, programs that include copy protection mechanisms may not be transferred to a Personal Viewing Device using the TiVoToGo feature. Similarly, programs that may be blocked using Parental Controls may not be transferred to a Personal Viewing Device using the TiVoToGo feature. Before such programs may be transferred using the TiVoToGo feature, you must temporarily turn Parental Controls off. The TiVo Desktop application does not include Parental Controls for programs stored on your home computer. If you do not want minors to view particular programs on a Personal Viewing Device, do not transfer them using the TiVoToGo feature.

Your home computer must meet certain minimum technical requirements and you must have adequate storage space available on your home computer to use the TiVoToGo feature. Because your home computer may need available space on your home computer's storage device to run properly and accommodate routine tasks, TiVo recommends that you carefully monitor the amount of available storage on your home computer. The programs transmitted from your TiVo DVR may require large amounts of space relative to other files on your home computer, and the TiVo Desktop application does not monitor the amount of available storage on your home computer. You agree that TiVo is not responsible for your inability to use the TiVoToGo feature or your home computer based on lack of available storage on your home computer or your home computer's failure to meet the minimum technical requirements.

3.3.4 Note About Privacy and TiVo Desktop Application. Please review TiVo's Privacy Policy located at www.tivo.com/privacy, which is incorporated herein by reference. Unless you have changed your privacy preferences, when you use the features enabled by the TiVo Desktop application, TiVo collects anonymous information about the use of these features, but that does not identify you as an individual or household. This anonymous information is treated the same as Anonymous Viewing Information under TiVo's Privacy Policy. In other words, there is no personally identifiable information associated with this data that could identify the data as coming from you or your household.

4. We Don't Control Third-Party Content! The TiVo service gives you the ability to access audio, video, and other media over which TiVo exercises no editorial or programming control ("Third Party Content"). You understand that: (a) TiVo does not guarantee the access to or the ability to record, display, or transfer any particular program; (b) programming is not under TiVo's control; (c) programming providers may restrict or limit the ability to record, display, view or transfer particular programs by using a variety of copy protection mechanisms; (d) content providers may restrict or revoke access to their content at any time; (e) TiVo is not responsible for and has no editorial control over any Third Party Content; and (f) TiVo has no control over the distribution of such content. You agree that TiVo will have no liability to you, or anyone else who uses your account and TiVo DVR, with regard to any Third Party Content.

5. Third Party Content Is Copyrighted. You also understand that the Third Party Content is the copyrighted material of the third party that supplies it, is protected by U.S. copyright law and other applicable laws, and may not be reproduced, used to prepare derivative works, distributed, performed publicly or displayed publicly without the written permission of the third party that supplied it, except to the extent allowed under the "fair use" provisions of the U.S. copyright laws, other limitations on exclusive copyrights in the U.S. copyright laws, or comparable provisions of foreign laws. You hereby agree and declare that any and all Third Party Content accessed or transferred using the TiVo service or the TiVo Desktop application are for personal, non-commercial use and that the TiVo service or the TiVo Desktop application will not be used for Third Party Content to be copied or displayed before a public audience without authorization from the appropriate rights holder. Unauthorized copying or distribution of copyrighted works may constitute an infringement of the copyright holders' rights. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the accounts of users of any TiVo service or software who infringe the copyrights of others. In addition, steps intended to defeat or bypass security measures which are designed to prevent infringement of copyrighted works may be illegal under U.S. law or comparable foreign laws. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the TiVo service accounts of users who develop or use any method to defeat or bypass such security measures and to take any other necessary or appropriate action to prevent infringement of copyright holders' rights.

6. Changes to Your TiVo Service. TiVo may at its discretion and from time to time change, add, or remove features and functionality of the TiVo service or the TiVo DVR without notice. If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the TiVo service, you may cancel your use of the TiVo service as provided in Section 15 ("Termination of Service"). TiVo reserves the right to discontinue one, some, or all of the features of the TiVo service you receive at any time at its discretion. TiVo may at its discretion discontinue the provision of software updates to certain TiVo DVRs. This means that while other TiVo DVRs may receive continued software updates and functionality; TiVo is not required to provide such updates to your TiVo DVR. Additionally, the level of service TiVo provides may not be the same on each TiVo DVR; a given TiVo DVR may support different features and functionality, and TiVo is under no obligation to provide all features and functionality to your TiVo DVR.
Activating and Using the TiVo Service

7. Your TiVo DVR Won't Work Without the TiVo Service! A subscription to the TiVo service is required in order for your TiVo DVR to have any functionality. No functionality is represented or should be expected from the TiVo DVR without a paid subscription to the TiVo service.

8. Eligible Subscribers. You must be at least 18 years of age to assume the responsibilities of this Agreement. Minors may use the TiVo service only if one of their parents or legal guardians assumes the responsibilities of this Agreement and thereby assumes full responsibility for the minor's use of the TiVo service.

9. Subscription Fees and Service Commitment. You agree to pay your subscription fee in advance. Your subscription fee will cover the TiVo service received via a TiVo DVR authorized by TiVo to enable the TiVo service. You have a choice of subscription payment options that may change over time. TiVo reserves the right to discontinue any subscription payment option at any time without notice. You may switch payment options at the end of each period. If for any reason you need to reactivate your subscription, you may be charged a reactivation fee. If you are signing up for the TiVo service under a promotional subscription fee, some additional restrictions may apply. If you have multiple TiVo service subscriptions under the same account information, additional terms and conditions may apply. Whatever your subscription payment option, your subscription fee does not include any services, features or functionality other than the TiVo service. WITH RESPECT TO ANY NEW TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION ACTIVATED ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER 6, 2005, YOU AGREE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE FOR NO LESS THAN 12 MONTHS OR LONGER DEPENDING UPON YOUR SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION PLAN (THE "SERVICE COMMITMENT"). IF YOU FAIL TO MEET THE SERVICE COMMITMENT BY CANCELLING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE (OR IF TIVO TERMINATES YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE DUE TO A BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT), YOU AGREE THAT TIVO MAY CHARGE YOU THE EARLY TERMINATION FEE AGREED TO BY YOU AT THE TIME YOU SUBSCRIBED TO THE TIVO SERVICE, AND YOU AGREE TO PAY ANY SUCH EARLY TERMINATION FEE.

10. Telephone Access and Possible Charges. The TiVo service is accessed through a standard telephone line and is available as a local call in most areas. In some areas, local and long-distance toll charges may apply. The TiVo service may also be available through the Internet with a broadband connection. However, TiVo does not make any assurances about the availability or functionality of the TiVo service over a broadband connection. Firewall protection is strongly advised for any broadband Internet connections to protect your TiVo DVR from viruses and other harmful things. You are responsible for any telephone or broadband service charges incurred as a result of using or accessing the TiVo service and acknowledge and agree that you will be solely responsible for all disputes with any telephone company or Internet service provider related to the same.

11. Payment Authorization. If you choose a subscription option with recurring payments (including any pre-paid subscription option which reverts to a monthly payment plan at the expiration of the pre-paid period), you agree that TiVo may automatically charge the subscription fee to your credit or charge card at the beginning of each period. Your TiVo service access will not be established until TiVo has verified that the credit card information you provide us for payment is accurate and that your credit card account is in good standing. You further agree that TiVo may charge any other applicable fees, including any early termination fee, to your credit card. TiVo may, as necessary, extend the expiration date of your credit card in order to ensure continued service. TiVo may, at its discretion, change the TiVo service fees, early termination fee, restocking fee and any other fee, from time to time, and charge fees (which TiVo may also change) for features and functionalities that are not a part of the TiVo service. TiVo will notify you 30 days in advance of any fee changes or new fees applicable to your TiVo service subscription; you may obtain the fees currently in effect at any time by contacting TiVo Customer Support at 1-877-367-8486. You are responsible for reviewing your credit card statement for billing accuracy. You have 90 days to dispute any billing that you feel is inaccurate. If you do not contact TiVo within 90 days of the disputed billing date, TiVo will not be responsible for any billing errors. TiVo reserves the right to suspend or terminate your TiVo service without notice upon rejection of any credit card charges or if your card issuer (or its agent or affiliate) seeks return of payments previously made to TiVo when TiVo believes you are liable for the charges. You agree to pay a late charge on all amounts due which remain unpaid for 30 days. The late charge will equal 1.5% of the past due amount, or the highest rate allowed by law, whichever is less, per month until paid. Such rights are in addition to and not in lieu of any other legal right or remedies available to TiVo. TiVo reserves the right to refer your account to a third party for collection in the event of an ongoing default.

12. Using the TiVo Service. You may access and use the TiVo service only with a TiVo DVR that is authorized to receive the TiVo service and you agree not to tamper with or otherwise modify your TiVo DVR. Among other things, this means that you may access and use the program guide information only on a TiVo DVR that is authorized to receive it. The TiVo service is provided for your personal, non- commercial use, and may not be resold, in whole or in part. Except as expressly provided in this Agreement, you may not transfer the TiVo service. By using the TiVo service, you agree to receive all software updates and upgrades that TiVo sends to your TiVo DVR. If your TiVo DVR accesses the TiVo service (regardless of your payment or subscription status), you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo service and are bound by the terms of this Agreement.

13. Advertising and Promotions. The TiVo service is advertiser supported. The hard disk drive of your TiVo DVR contains reserved space in addition to the advertised recording capacity. TiVo reserves the right to send content (including advertising and promotional material) to such reserved portions of your TiVo DVR's hard disk drive as part of the TiVo service. In order to send such content, you agree that TiVo may tune your TiVo DVR to a particular channel at a particular time.

14. Product Lifetime Subscriptions. A "Product Lifetime Subscription" to the TiVo service covers the life of the TiVo DVR you buy, not the life of the subscriber. The Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR in case of ownership transfer. The subscription remains in effect if the TiVo DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) or even if you upgrade your TiVo DVR to increase storage capacity (though such upgrades, if not performed by TiVo or a TiVo-authorized third party, will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR and constitute a breach of this Agreement). Because a Product Lifetime Subscription is linked to a particular TiVo DVR, you may not transfer it to any other TiVo DVR unless all the following conditions apply: (a) the TiVo DVR is being replaced pursuant to the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty; and (b) the TiVo DVR being replaced is of the same make and model as the replacement TiVo DVR; and (c) you provide us with a proof of replacement by the manufacturer or retailer. TiVo reserves the right to charge you a fee to transfer Product Lifetime Service from a TiVo DVR being replaced to a replacement TiVo DVR. Each TiVo DVR purchased requires its own TiVo service subscription and activation. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty).

15. Termination of Service. Subject to any Service Commitment to which you may be bound, you may terminate your account, this Agreement, and your right to use the TiVo service, at any time and for any reason or no reason, by contacting TiVo Customer Support at 1-877-367-8486. Please note that without a subscription to the TiVo service, your TiVo DVR will not work! Please see Section 7, above. The TiVo service will be terminated at the end of the service period for which you have paid and unused subscription fees are nonrefundable. If you terminate your account or this Agreement before meeting any applicable Service Commitment, TiVo reserves the right to charge you the early termination fee agreed to by you at the time you subscribed to the TiVo service. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Agreement, TiVo retains the absolute right to immediately suspend or terminate your account, and terminate this Agreement, if the charges to your credit card for the fees described in Section 9 ("Subscription Fees and Service Commitment") and Section 11 ("Payment Authorization") are refused for any reason, if you breach any provision in this Agreement, if you misuse the TiVo service, and/or if you alter your TiVo DVR or use the TiVo service or software in such a manner as to infringe upon the intellectual property rights of TiVo or any third party. In addition, TiVo reserves the right to terminate your account and this Agreement for any other reason or no reason if TiVo gives you at least 30 days advance notice of such termination. Upon any such termination of your account, you will remain obligated to pay all outstanding fees and charges relating to your use of the TiVo service before termination.
Ownership, Open Source Software, Disclaimers and Liability Limitations

16. Title to Software and Intellectual Property. You may need to use certain software programs in your TiVo DVR to use or have full access to certain features of the TiVo service. You received certain software in your TiVo DVR at the time of purchase and other software programs may be delivered to your TiVo DVR by TiVo from time to time, which you are obligated to accept. You may use such software solely in executable code form and solely in conjunction with your TiVo DVR. Your use of such software is subject to the terms of this Agreement. TiVo retains title to and ownership of all the software for the TiVo DVR and certain intellectual property rights in the TiVo DVR. TiVo also retains ownership of all TiVo copyrights and trademarks. In the case of third party software delivered by TiVo to the TiVo DVR, the applicable third party retains title to and ownership of its software, copyrights and trademarks. Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, sublicense, distribute or use for other purposes either the TiVo DVR or the software of the TiVo DVR is strictly prohibited, except as expressly set forth in Section 17 ("Open Source Software"). If you install the TiVo Desktop application on your home computer, ownership and the other terms of such use are governed by the applicable end user license agreement to which you must agree prior to installation.

17. Open Source Software. Certain components of the software for the TiVo DVR are subject to the GNU General Public License Version 2, or other so-called open source licenses ("Open Source Software"). Open Source Software is not subject to the restrictions Section 16 ("Title to Software and Intellectual Property"), and is subject to the license terms under which TiVo distributes such Open Source Software. In compliance with the terms of certain Open Source Software licenses like the GNU General Public License Version 2 ("GPLv2"), TiVo makes certain modifications to Open Source Software that TiVo uses, modifies and distributes pursuant to such licenses available to the public in source code form at www.tivo.com/source. You are free to use, modify and distribute Open Source Software so long as you comply with the terms of the relevant Open Source Software license. In particular, the GPLv2 is available in the product manual or at www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html.

18. Indemnity. YOU AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TIVO FROM AND AGAINST ANY AND ALL CLAIMS, PROCEEDINGS, INJURIES, LIABILITIES, LOSSES, COSTS AND EXPENSES (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS' FEES), INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, CLAIMS ALLEGING NEGLIGENCE, COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT AND/OR TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT AGAINST TIVO OR THE TIVO SERVICE, RELATING TO OR ARISING OUT OF YOUR BREACH OF ANY TERM OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOUR MISUSE OF THE TIVO SERVICE, OR YOUR UNAUTHORIZED MODIFICATION OR ALTERATION OF THE TIVO DVR OR SOFTWARE FOR THE TIVO DVR (OTHER THAN AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN SECTION 17 ("OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE")).

19. Warranty Disclaimer. YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE TIVO SERVICE IS PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS. TIVO MAKES NO WARRANTY THAT THE TIVO SERVICE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, ALLOW YOU TO RECORD, VIEW OR TRANSFER ANY PARTICULAR PROGRAMMING, OR THAT USE OF THE TIVO SERVICE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, SECURE, OR ERROR-FREE; NOR DOES TIVO MAKE ANY WARRANTY AS TO THE ACCURACY OR RELIABILITY OF ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED THROUGH THE TIVO SERVICE (INCLUDING THIRD PARTY CONTENT), THAT ANY DEFECTS IN THE TIVO SERVICE WILL BE CORRECTED OR THAT THE TIVO DVR OR TIVO SERVICE WILL BE COMPATIBLE WITH ANY OTHER SPECIFIC HARDWARE OR SERVICE. FURTHER, TIVO DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE TIVO SERVICE OR THE TIVO SERVERS THAT PROVIDE YOU WITH DATA AND CONTENT ARE FREE OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS. YOU (AND NOT TIVO) ASSUME THE ENTIRE COST OF ALL NECESSARY MAINTENANCE, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. TIVO ALSO ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY, AND WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES TO, OR VIRUSES THAT MAY INFECT YOUR TIVO DVR, TIVO SOFTWARE, OR OTHER HARDWARE. TIVO AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED, OR STATUTORY, REGARDING THE TIVO SERVICE OR TIVO SOFTWARE, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF TITLE, MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON- INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS. Because some jurisdictions do not permit the exclusion of implied warranties, the last sentence of this section may not apply to you.

20. Limitations of TiVo's Liability. IN NO EVENT WILL TIVO OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY LOST PROFITS, USE OF USER INFORMATION, LOSS OF DATA, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, OR OTHER INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES OF ANY NATURE ARISING FROM OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE TIVO SERVICE OR USE OF THE TIVO SERVICE THROUGH YOUR ACCOUNT BY ANYONE ELSE, EVEN IF TIVO HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. IN NO EVENT WILL TIVO'S OR ITS SUPPLIERS' TOTAL CUMULATIVE LIABILITY TO YOU AND ANYONE WHO USES THE TIVO SERVICE THROUGH YOUR ACCOUNT, FOR ANY AND ALL CLAIMS UNDER ANY THEORY OF LAW, EXCEED THE AGGREGATE AMOUNT YOU PAID TO TIVO IN THE PRECEDING TWELVE MONTHS. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THESE LIMITATIONS OF TIVO'S AND TIVO'S SUPPLIERS' LIABILITY ARE A FUNDAMENTAL PART OF THIS AGREEMENT. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. Additionally, this provision is not intended to limit TiVo's liability in the event of TiVo's willful or intentional misconduct. Moreover, if TiVo mistakenly or wrongfully overcharges your account, this section does not limit TiVo's obligation to refund such mistakenly or wrongfully overcharged amounts.
General

21. Miscellaneous. This Agreement will be governed by the laws of the State of California as such laws apply to agreements between California residents performed entirely within California. The United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods does not apply to this Agreement. You and TiVo agree to submit to the exclusive personal jurisdiction of the courts located within the county of Santa Clara, California. If any provision of this Agreement is invalid or unenforceable under applicable law, such provision will be deemed modified to the extent necessary to render such provision valid and enforceable and the other provisions of this Agreement will remain in full force and effect. The official text of this Agreement or notice submitted hereunder will be in English. In the event of any dispute concerning the construction or meaning of this Agreement, reference will be made only to this Agreement as written in English and not to any translation into another language. This document, the Website Terms and Conditions (available at www.tivo.com/webpolicy), the TiVo Multi-Service Discount Agreement (available at www.tivo.com/privacy), and the terms of any applicable written Service Commitment offer from TiVo accepted by you represent the entire agreement governing your use of and subscription to the TiVo service and supersedes any prior or contemporaneous written or oral statements by TiVo or its representatives or resellers. TiVo's failure to enforce any of the terms of this Agreement does not constitute a waiver or relinquishment of TiVo's right to do so at any time. Sections 7 ("Your TiVo DVR Won't Work Without the TiVo Service!"), 9 ("Subscription Fees and Service Commitment"), 10 ("Telephone Access and Possible Charges"), 11 ("Payment Authorization"), 12 ("Using the TiVo Service"), 16 ("Title to Software and Intellectual Property"), 17 ("Open Source Software"), 18 ("Indemnity"), 19 ("Warranty Disclaimer"), 20 ("Limitations of TiVo's Liability"), and 21 ("Miscellaneous") survive any termination or expiration of this Agreement.

BY USING THE TIVO SERVICE, I REPRESENT THAT I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THIS ENTIRE AGREEMENT, AND I AGREE TO ALL THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT AS STATED ABOVE.

TiVo Service Agreement v20080801


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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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And lastly this;
Quote:


Updated August 31, 2011

For service plans activated before August 31, 2011, see these prior terms & conditions.

The TiVo Payment Plans is the primary document that explains the payment plans governing your subscription to the TiVo service.

TABLE OF CONTENTS
1. How Do The TiVo Payment Plans Apply To You?

When you purchase a TiVo DVR and subscribe to the TiVo service, you must agree to the TiVo Service Agreement. The following TiVo Payment Plans (the "service plan(s)") are subject to and incorporated into the TiVo Service Agreement (the "service agreement"). Except as otherwise set forth in, and subject to, the service agreement, these service plans govern both your subscription to and receipt of the TiVo service and any TiVo DVR you may have received in connection with any service plan. Pricing, terms, and conditions of the TiVo service are subject to change at any time.

BY SELECTING AND ACTIVATING UNDER ONE OF THE FOLLOWING PAYMENT PLANS OR PROMOTIONAL PAYMENT PLANS, YOU REPRESENT THAT YOU ARE OF LEGAL AGE TO ACCEPT TIVO INC.'S OFFER TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE AND THAT YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND FULLY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE PAYMENT PLANS AND THE TIVO SERVICE AGREEMENT.

Without a subscription to the TiVo service, your TiVo DVR will not work! Please see Section 7 of the TiVo Service Agreement.
2. Which TiVo Payment Plans Are Available?

A. At the time of activation of a service plan, you can pay for a subscription to the TiVo service on a monthly or prepaid basis. Promotional Pricing may also be available from time-to-time. TiVo reserves the right to terminate the offer of Promotional Pricing at any time without notice.

B. You may purchase a subscription to the TiVo Service in one of the following ways:
(i) For TiVo Premiere boxes:
(a) When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box and subscription at the same time directly from TiVo, you may select one of the following options:
(1) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle with (a) a box fee of $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box and (b) a monthly service fee of $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99; or

(2) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle at (a) the full MSRP (no instant savings) box fee of $299.99 for a TiVo Premiere box or $499.99 for a TiVo Premiere XL box and (b) subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with no commitment (renews monthly until you cancel) when you order by phone.

(b) When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer at $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box, you may only subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99.

(ii) For all other TiVo boxes, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with no commitment or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $499.99.
3. Do Early Termination Fees Apply To Any TiVo Payment Plans?

A. An early termination fee applies to only monthly service plans that included a 1 year commitment as follows:

(i) If you subscribe to the TiVo service on a $19.99 a month plan with a one (1) year commitment, you can cancel your subscription to the TiVo service at any time, but if you do so before the end of your initial one (1) year commitment, you will be assessed an amount equal to $200 minus $15 per month for each month of your subscription that you fulfilled, except as permitted by the 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.

B. No early termination fee applies to no commitment and prepaid service plans (Product Lifetime Subscriptions), but no refunds will be paid for cancellations of any no commitment or prepaid service plan except as permitted under TiVo's 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.
4. Does The 30-Day Money Back Guarantee Apply To TiVo Payment Plans?

A 30-Day Money Back Guarantee applies to all initial activations of TiVo service. See full terms of TiVo's 30-Day Money Back Guarantee for complete details.
5. If My TiVo Payment Plan Includes A Commitment, What Happens At The End Of That Commitment?

If you purchased a monthly service plan including a one (1) year commitment, TiVo will continue to charge you after the end of your commitment on a monthly basis at the then-current monthly service plan rate, subject to the terms of the TiVo Service Agreement.
6. How Long Does The Product Lifetime Service Subscription Last?

The Product Lifetime Subscription to the TiVo service includes a subscription for the useable life of the TiVo DVR you buy – not the life of the subscriber – and may not be transferred to another TiVo DVR. A Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR it is associated with in case of ownership transfer of that TiVo DVR. For more information on Product Lifetime Subscriptions, please refer to the TiVo Service Agreement. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's Limited Warranty).
7. Does The TiVo Payment Plan I Purchase Come With A Warranty?

For all service plans, TiVo makes no warranties or representations aside from the manufacturer's Limited Warranty. TiVo may also offer from time to time two (2) year and three (3) year extended warranty plans for purchase ninety (90) days from the earlier of the DVR purchase date or TiVo service activation date.
8. Are There Any Discounts That Apply To The TiVo Payment Plans?

A. The $12.95 monthly, $19.99 monthly with a 1 year commitment, and Product Lifetime Subscription service plans are eligible for the Multi-Service Discount at the time of initial activation. See full terms of the Multi-Service Discount for details.

B. Purchases of TiVo DVR and TiVo service plans from http://www.tivo.com cannot be combined with any other offers or discounts, including any TiVo mail-in rebates. TiVo Service Gift Subscriptions, including TiVo Service Gift Cards purchased at Best Buy, cannot be used in conjunction with any purchase of a TiVo DVR.
9. What If I Fail To Pay For My TiVo Payment Plan?

If you fail to pay any amounts owing to us in connection with these TiVo Payment Plans terms, TiVo reserves the right to pursue such unpaid amounts and you will remain liable to us for all charges under these TiVo Payment Plan terms and all the costs we incur to collect these charges, including, without limitation, collection agency fees, reasonable attorneys' fees, and arbitration or court costs.


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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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Have your Attorney call our Attorney and we'll do lunch.
Quote:


$100 a year for that is a total rip-off IMO.

Do you still feel that way now (assuming you read through the above)?

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

TiVo is now supposedly charging $10 a month for their OTA only listings, so it's $20 less.

What's the supposedly all about? I paid $59 for the brand new Premiere and TiVo charged me $10. That is unless I change my mind within 30-days and decide to go with another Lifetime (instead). Oh and the $10 includes all of the TiVo services... not just guide data.
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post #50 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
What's the supposedly all about? I paid $59 for the brand new Premiere and TiVo charged me $10. That is unless I change my mind within 30-days and decide to go with another Lifetime (instead). Oh and the $10 includes all of the TiVo services... not just guide data.
Same here. $59 and $9.99 a month for one year commitment, ota only.

Netflix access, free Hulu+ for 6 months, etc. I also own the Channel Master and there is no comparison between the two products. I like free guide as much as anyone, but the Tivo is flat out a better value and product.
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Because it was only "supposedly", since it wasn't confirmed and there is no mention of it in their August updated agreement. But, it's still $20 a year more than what CM is looking at and theirs has ads.

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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #52 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
TiVo is now supposedly charging $10 a month for their OTA only listings, so it's $20 less. Still high, but I wouldn't call it a "total" ripoff.
It depends. $100 per year for guide data that's as good as TiVo's is probably a reasonable deal. $100 a year for TVGOS-type data is probably a ripoff.
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post #53 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 02:30 PM
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Speculation, please: Will the tuner in this be any better over long over-the-air distances than the tuner in the 3-year-old DTVPal DVR? (Or had tuner technology plateaued by 2008? Living in a fringe area, I had seen reception get steadily better 2002-2008 as I upgraded devices.)
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post #54 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 03:28 PM
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Because it was only "supposedly", since it wasn't confirmed and there is no mention of it in their August updated agreement. But, it's still $20 a year more than what CM is looking at and theirs has ads.

But the TiVo is $300 less on MSRP. As I pointed out in one of my Gizmo Lovers posts you'd have to use the products for 15 years before the TiVo cost as much as the CM-7400 over the same period. (100+(120*x) = 400+(100*x)) And the TiVo has a lifetime option. $600 and you don't pay again. With the CM-7400 you spend $600 in two years - and then keep paying $100/year.

And the TiVo offers a hell of a lot more features and is just a better DVR at the core of it. I don't think there is any contest, you'd be crazy to get the CM-7400 if you're going to use the Premium Guide service. You'll pay less with TiVo and get more.

The CM with premium guide gets 7 days of data, records ATSC & Clear QAM, and handles Vudu and a few other services (via Vudu Apps).

The TiVo with a sub gets up to 14 days (10-14 in my experience), records ATSC, and handles Amazon Instant View, Netflix, Hulu Plus, Blockbuster OnDemand, YouTube, Music Choice, web videos, and even RSS feeds. It also has Pandora, Rhapsody, Live365, Spotify is coming, and other music sevices like Last.fm, etc., are usable. Photos from Picasa & Photobucket. And you can stream music, photos, and video from your LAN using TiVo's software or 3rd party software like kmttg, pyTiVo, and Streambaby. There is the official iOS app for iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad, and an official Android app is in the works. And there are third party apps for iOS, Android, Windows, etc., as well. You can also manage Season Passes and setup recordings from the TiVo website.

TiVo's DVR features with Season Passes, Wish Lists (which can be set to Auto Record), integrated searching across services, etc., is just superior to other products, certainly what we know of the DVR functions on the CM.

As for the ads, no big deal. They're unobtrusive. You get one menu item on the main screen which you can take or leave. If you use grouping in the Now Playing List you *may* get one item at the very bottom of a group - which is also trivial to ignore. And when you pause or hit the end of a video the overlay sometimes has an ad in it, but when it doesn't it is just empty real estate anyway. I don't even notice the ads.

TiVo has also done thing where if you're FFW and you're passing over, say, an ad for Coke there may be a static Coke ad that pops up only while passing through the recorded ad. But not many advertisers have signed up for that so it isn't very common. And if you use 30-second skip instead of FFW to get through ads you'll never see them.

I think TiVo has done a pretty good job of balancing advertising in their UI with the design to keep the experience good for the end user. They aren't slapping banner ads across a third of the screen like some cable boxes do.

They only people who seem to be really bothered by the ads on TiVo are those for whom it is a religious issue, where any advertising at all is a personal affront.


As others have said, the TiVo is regularly available for less than MSRP, especially a refurbished box. Woot just had a deal for $50 on a refurb TiVo Premiere. And you can get lifetime for $400 instead of $500 fairly easily. $400 is the MSD, or Multi-Service Discount, rate. If you activate lifetime on a unit on an existing TiVo account with an active box you can pay MSD. But even if you're a new TiVo subscriber, if you know anyone with an active TiVo account you have *them* activate it and pay MSD. Once lifetime is activated it is tied to the box, even if that box then transferred to a new owner and account. So you do that, and you have a box with lifetime for $100 less than if you did it yourself. It is gaming the system, but people do it.

Get the box for $50, use the trick for $400 lifetime, and you have a $450 paid for DVR with a premium guide a a lot of features.

Note there is more coming too - the TiVo Premiere is getting room-to-room streaming to other Premiere units. And we know there is a TiVo Preview non-DVR client box in the works which will be able to act as a client for that too. And if you ever decide to reconnect the code the TiVo is a CableCARD-enabled DVR, ready to handle your cable or FiOS. The CM-7400 isn't.

That's all why I think the TiVo is easily the better deal overall.

-MegaZone, Gizmo Lovers
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post #55 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 05:32 PM
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And the TiVo has a lifetime option. $600 and you don't pay again. With the CM-7400 you spend $600 in two years - and then keep paying $100/year.

Actually, break-even with the CM-7400 is 1 yr -- pay $100 at purchase (+$400=$500) and $100 12 months later.

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post #56 of 1996 Old 09-18-2011, 09:02 PM
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Actually, break-even with the CM-7400 is 1 yr -- pay $100 at purchase (+$400=$500) and $100 12 months later.

Well, two years of use. You pay at the start of the year but you get the full year of use.

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post #57 of 1996 Old 09-19-2011, 03:35 AM
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$100 a year for TVGOS-type data is probably a ripoff.

What's so special about the actual data that TiVo gives you? We aren't talking about the interface, just the data.

I wonder if anyone from PCT International is reading any of this??

.
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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #58 of 1996 Old 09-19-2011, 05:51 AM
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Well, two years of use. You pay at the start of the year but you get the full year of use.
I'm talking about money out of your pocket. With the CM-7400 you pay $500 up front and $100 12 months later. You pay $600 in one year -- the price of a TiVo -- then keep on paying.

As you wrote. One would have to be nuts, or just a rabid TiVo-hater, to buy a CM-7400 over a TiVo.

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post #59 of 1996 Old 09-19-2011, 07:29 AM
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What's so special about the actual data that TiVo gives you? We aren't talking about the interface, just the data.

I wonder if anyone from PCT International is reading any of this??
Well, for one thing TiVo provides two weeks of data, while TVGOS provides only one. And from all the complaints I've read, I think that the TVGOS data isn't usually as complete or as accurate as what TiVo gets from Tribune Media.
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post #60 of 1996 Old 09-19-2011, 10:40 AM
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That's one huge plus with the Sony. FULL guide, no fees (if you have reliable guide data available).

I don't mind a reasonable fee, but $9 a month just for ones and zeros is not reasonable. I remember when CATV service was $9 a month.

I agree. If Elgato EyeTV can offer the "real" TV Guide for 20 dollars a year and media center supplies Tribune Media for free then they're either greedy or they have to subsidize the hardware costs, but looking at the design, that thing came re-badged out of some factory on the Pacific Rim so I'm going for greed.
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