Channel Master TV CM 7400 HD DVR - OTA, Clear QAM, Internet Content - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by steve771 View Post


You are certainly entitled to your opinion on heat issues causing problems, but the vast majority of the evidence points to higher heat = shorter lifespan on any component. If that means it happens quickly or over some time, well, that may well depend on the 'luck' of your build.

I will agree with Steve on the the point that excessive heat could reduce the lifespan of components. My 7400 is in an enclosed cabinet with glass door in front. After one day it was my opinion the unit was running quite warm. I call quite warm being hot if you put your hand on top but not so hot that you would have to remove your hand because you feared burning your hand. I contacted tech support and was told that it was normal to run that hot. Being concerned about the heat and wanting to make this unit work for me, I decided to put a laptop fan under my 7400. My unit runs barely warm now and I have had no problems of any kind during the 2 weeks I've been using it.
Blocknlot it sounds like you are pretty happy with your unit as I am. The heat may or may not affect the lifespan of the unit, but it was my choice to cool the unit to avoid that possibility.
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post #812 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by dbdoc View Post

I am hoping to see more feedback on using the 7400 with cable. If I am understanding correctly, after entering your zip it saves all digital channels, scrambled and clear. And for some reason is deleting these in the channel list. It sounds like it operates like my 2005 SS digital tuner. It saves all (not deleted) and you have to ch up/dn through all the channels/subchannels to find the clear ones. And it puts the clear channels on different sub channels than any of my newer tuners, which all agree with one another. Maybe it will work better on other cable systems.

Here is my cable system story. The local feed has 26 vsb/analog, 140 clear QAM and over a hundred scrambled. I get clear 10 QAM in HD. There is no significance to the channel locations. They are all over the spectrum. What was my basic analog (TNT, USA) is now digital and still clear.

My scan, out of the box, found about 400 channels, all disabled. The channel numbers were those of my scrambled channels. I have a TV that tells me such information.

You can read all this in my reviews on Walmart, CM, Crutchfield and Amazon. Well, CM when it decides to post it.

I enabled the first dead channel and it was my first clear QAM 480i channel. I postulate that a scan was done making two tables: one clear QAM and one scrambled QAM. A bug in the software then swapped the content, leaving the clear channels on the scrambled list. The "scrambled" list was deleted, as on most other equipment I have. I have no PSIP data.

I was now able to get to enter my zip code, which set my clock but had no effect on my stations. It asked for my cable provider, which I supplied. This is, logically, a waste of time. This unit has no cable card, so why does it care about my provider? Conversion of raw QAM is only done by a cable card from a cable provider.

I did not try to pursue differences in cable channel numbers. I put it back in the box and received full credit (except for the gasoline) from Amazon in a timely matter. I am now looking into other alternatives.

As I stated also, the unit is quite warm, has a nice remote, and it was a mistake to put QAM256 demodulation in this box. The PQ was very good.

I hope this helps. I am unfamiliar with your digital tuner; could you be more specific? I have a lot of stuff, but I am afraid to list it. There may be a Moderator target placed on my back.
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post #813 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 03:13 PM
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I have been following this thread as it has been a product that I would love to purchase... especially if the reviews improve. I find the reports by folks like Block and Dano very helpful but I can't get over my concern with the heat and it is keeping me from purchasing this unit.

For the more senior members of this forum who would care to speculate and who have seen these types of products come and go with updates both on the software and design side my question is this:

How likely is it that the feedback and concerns of heat make their way back to Channel Master and ultimately result in a re-design of this unit? I relize it may take quite a few more reviews and problems, but would anyone care to speculate based on their observations?
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post #814 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dano567 View Post

The heat may or may not affect the lifespan of the unit, but it was my choice to cool the unit to avoid that possibility.

Which I think is a very wise thing to do if you're happy with your unit. In fact, I've thought about placing a fan in my closed cabinet, just haven't gotten around to it.

It wasn't my intent to disparage anyone who likes the 7400. I think it had great potential, and maybe with some bug fixes it will prove a reliable choice.

I really would like it to succeed, but I can't excuse its faults.
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post #815 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherClone View Post

I have been following this thread as it has been a product that I would love to purchase... especially if the reviews improve. I find the reports by folks like Block and Dano very helpful but I can't get over my concern with the heat and it is keeping me from purchasing this unit.

For the more senior members of this forum who would care to speculate and who have seen these types of products come and go with updates both on the software and design side my question is this:

How likely is it that the feedback and concerns of heat make their way back to Channel Master and ultimately result in a re-design of this unit? I relize it may take quite a few more reviews and problems, but would anyone care to speculate based on their observations?

I will speculate it will not happen very soon.
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post #816 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherClone View Post

How likely is it that the feedback and concerns of heat make their way back to Channel Master and ultimately result in a re-design of this unit? I relize it may take quite a few more reviews and problems, but would anyone care to speculate based on their observations?

Not very likely, IMHO. To retool/redesign a shipping product is costly for a manufacturer. Unless they can do something in firmware/software, which I think is doubtful due to the hardware choices they made. Not saying the hardware choices are wrong, just that they've made them and they are what they are.

Basing this entirely on my CM7000 experience, which I think is a superior (though limited) box to the CM7400.
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post #817 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

Having to resort to those steps with a product I just bought would make me real nervous. That's more something to keep an old dog running a little bit longer.

Oh I agree, I wouldn't tolerate it. But if someone is determined to make this work for them the obvious first step is to mitigate the heat issue.

- kelson h

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post #818 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:11 PM
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Re; Steve and Dano,

I guess what I am trying to say is I am giving the benefit of any doubts regarding heat in the 7400 that I read about in here to the engineers who designed the product.

I am sure (assuming) they know the temperatures the product is running at and is designed into the system. I am also sure a large temperature margin is taken into effect for a 5 or 10 degree difference that a closed cabinet will produce, more or less be able to handle the same amount of heat as other components in the enclosure.

One thing for sure, any electronic component can be made to run at any temperature. Just look at everything under the hood of a car. As electronic components become more energy efficient you will see less and less fan cooling needed.

I think most of all though, anyone delaying trying the unit out is making a mistake, much more so if you are OTA like me.
You get 30 days to return it, how much more can one ask for?
As with any new product I do think there are issues but I think its limited to the specific product itself, meaning the fail rate of individual units needs to come down, not the design or lack of a fan.

I just think back to the release of other similar products that we no longer mention in here (starts with a T) way back at the start of 2010 until they got the firmware updated a few times. Since it had a fan, no one was blaming the heat or fan, but there were plenty issues to go around, now, 2 years later and a few firmware updates it seems to be the benchmark the 7400 is being measured against.

As far as an enclosed cabinet whether a unit has a fan or not, the unit will still run at a higher temperature simply because the enclosed cabinet has a higher temperature. However its quite possible that the temperature in the cabinet with the 7400 can and most likely will be a lower temperature then the cabinet with the other brand that has a fan, if that other brand is using more wattage which would generate more heat and I believe the other brand does use more wattage.

I hope you guys all know I am just debating ideas, maybe for a little balance?
Im REALLY impressed with the unit so far. I do think if I was a cable person I would not even be thinking about it, would just use the cable companies like I always did. But OTA, so far for me, this thing rocks. Of, course, yes, I will truly try to make it misbehave over the next couple weeks and you will get the truth from me! I am not adding any type of cooling, heck I havent even updated the firmware yet! I will update though, in a week or so, as with computers I always make sure I am never the first to update ANYTHING until a little time passes, just in case there is an issue with the update!
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post #819 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blocknlot View Post

I only say that because I personally do not find the 7400 running "hot" I do find it running very "warm" but no more very warm then my very warm Motorola DSL modem which performs flawlessly day and and day out for 2 years or so now.

Yes, but does your DSL modem have a HDD in it? HDD do not like excessive heat. NAS units try to keep the temp below 50°C and will turn their fans on when needed. Not an option for the CM-7400. No matter what kind of electronic device you have, heat removal is the single biggest design concern for the packaging. The reason is well known -- heat kills electronics. Maybe not immediately, but it will sure shorten the lifespan.

- kelson h

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post #820 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:22 PM
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Unfortunately the only way this product is ever going to be improved is if we do not buy it. As long as people buy it and provide their own fixes the manufacturer has no incentive to do anything. If you truely want CM to do something, send your unit back and tell them why. At the very least this will hasten there dropping the price when they want to get rid of a marketing failure. Money talks, everything else is pointless. Sorry to burst your bubble but unless you hold a gun to their proverbial head they are only going to laugh their way to the bank with your money!
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post #821 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherClone View Post

I have been following this thread as it has been a product that I would love to purchase... especially if the reviews improve. I find the reports by folks like Block and Dano very helpful but I can't get over my concern with the heat and it is keeping me from purchasing this unit.

For the more senior members of this forum who would care to speculate and who have seen these types of products come and go with updates both on the software and design side my question is this:

How likely is it that the feedback and concerns of heat make their way back to Channel Master and ultimately result in a re-design of this unit? I relize it may take quite a few more reviews and problems, but would anyone care to speculate based on their observations?

My best advice would be to add a laptop fan. If you are good with tools, and like to work with wood, I would build a cooler. Parts can be found on Amazon and eBay. My AVR has a 12v trigger output @100ma that can drive a fan or two. I have a bunch of 12v wall warts from devices I can't even find. For a $400 device, what's another $20?

My problem is this: shouldn't CM fix it?
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post #822 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

My problem is this: shouldn't CM fix it

Before they fix it, it would need to be proven that there is indeed a problem.
I too find it hard to believe the designing engineers are unaware of the unit's operating temperature.
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post #823 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

Unfortunately the only way this product is ever going to be improved is if we do not buy it. As long as people buy it and provide their own fixes the manufacturer has no incentive to do anything. If you truely want CM to do something, send your unit back and tell them why. At the very least this will hasten there dropping the price when they want to get rid of a marketing failure. Money talks, everything else is pointless. Sorry to burst your bubble but unless you hold a gun to their proverbial head they are only going to laugh their way to the bank with your money!

Dear CM....I am sending this back. I am totally satisfied that it is doing everything that I expected it to do but I think you should put a fan in it and drop the price. ( a bit of sarcasm if you didn't get that.)

I guess the bottom line is do what you are comfortable with. If you are happy with the way the unit is operating and are comfortable with the price you paid for it then that is great. If you aren't then send it back. I for one am thus far very happy and will be keeping mine.
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post #824 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dano567 View Post

Dear CM....I am sending this back. I am totally satisfied that it is doing everything that I expected it to do but I think you should put a fan in it and drop the price. ( a bit of sarcasm if you didn't get that.)

I guess the bottom line is do what you are comfortable with. If you are happy with the way the unit is operating and are comfortable with the price you paid for it then that is great. If you aren't then send it back. I for one am thus far very happy and will be keeping mine.

You missed my point. If you think everything is great and you are satisfied then by all means keep it and be happy. BUT if you are expecting the company to make inprovements and you are not entirely happy with what you have then the only thing that will encourage CM to make an improvement is if you do not accept the problem. Give it back to them. Enjoy and I hope it works for you. I have a 7000 that works fine and I will only buy a 7400 when the majority of responders are happy.
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post #825 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Before they fix it, it would need to be proven that there is indeed a problem.
I too find it hard to believe the designing engineers are unaware of the unit's operating temperature.

[joke]

Here we have this new car. Works great during the winter. Summertime might be a problem. You could remove the hood though and not drive in heavy traffic.
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post #826 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 05:02 PM
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I apologize if this has already been covered previously, but I have to ask. Did Channel Master drop the subscription fee for anything past the 48 hour mark? I don't see it listed anywhere on the site any longer? Thanks.
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post #827 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blocknlot View Post

Hey all,
I kind of have the feeling that the "over heating" problem that is mentioned in these forums and on line reviews are overstated. I am not in anyway discounting peoples thoughts on the issue. But maybe bring some ideas and thoughts to the discussion.
I have had my Channel Master 7400 plugged in for 18 hours now. So far it is working as hoped for and much better then expected after reading many negative reviews. I think, because people can feel the "heat" that if an issue with an early production model they blame the heat instead of what very well maybe software/firmware issues.
I only say that because I personally do not find the 7400 running "hot" I do find it running very "warm" but no more very warm then my very warm Motorola DSL modem which performs flawlessly day and and day out for 2 years or so now. In fact over the last 15 years I never had a more reliable modem whether it was a cable, dsl or dial up and it is by far the warmest I ever had. When I got my first Motorola DSL modem over 2 years ago (guessing at exact time frame here) its interesting that it failed within 2 or 3 days, I mention that because I then blamed the heat. Well that was (again guessing) over two years ago and the replacement sent out to me at the time has been running very warm and extremely reliable. The best ever.

Your DSL modem is probably one of the Motorola 2210 "EZ-Bake" series. (Some people apply that term to only a certain serial number range, but all 2210's seem to run pretty warm.) I had a 2210-02-1022 that worked great for a year or so, then connections started getting flaky. I stepped up to a Netopia 3346N, and I haven't had any problems since. Maybe your modem is just unusually robust.

I've never seen a CM 7400, but if they run as warm as people say, I would suggest adding feet or a laptop cooler or anything else to try to keep the unit cool. In general, heat is bad for electronic equipment. Hard drives may be more vulnerable to heat than chips, and they have valuable content that can be lost if they fail.
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post #828 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 05:34 PM
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On the channelmaster website the information on the premium guide is this

"The Premium Program Guide is a technologically advanced on-screen program guide that provides a premium user experience over the free Basic Guide that comes standard with your Channel Master TV device. The Premium Program Guide offers up to 14 days of program guide listings (Up to 12 days more than the basic guide). Where available, the Premium Program Guide can display and support both local terrestrial broadcasts (ATSC) and basic cable TV services* (Clear QAM). The Premium Program Guide also offers a more comprehensive description of each upcoming program and enhances the overall program search functionality."

has anyone here actually had access to the premium guide?

I am curious about the" where available" part does anyone know if there is information on the areas that this guide can be used, is it ota or is it through internet
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post #829 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by yhtomitb View Post

I apologize if this has already been covered previously, but I have to ask. Did Channel Master drop the subscription fee for anything past the 48 hour mark? I don't see it listed anywhere on the site any longer? Thanks.

No, but they lowered it from $100 to $50 per year.
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post #830 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smintn View Post

On the channelmaster website the information on the premium guide is this

I am curious about the" where available" part does anyone know if there is information on the areas that this guide can be used, is it ota or is it through internet

It is or was U.S.A. only. If you are OTA on the Canada border there are ways around that.

Sorry, the big guide is not carried by any broadcaster. It is via the internet only. My reference was on how to buy it from Canada.
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post #831 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Before they fix it, it would need to be proven that there is indeed a problem.
I too find it hard to believe the designing engineers are unaware of the unit's operating temperature.

Make sure. Send them an email:

Support@channelmasterstore.com

I did.
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post #832 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Make sure. Send them an email:

Support@channelmasterstore.com

I did.

Yeah, I sent them an email question when I first got a 7400. That was December 27th. No reply to date. Over two weeks... now THAT is some lousy customer "service" for a new product.

As far as engineers go, someone had to design and 'be aware' of the characteristics of every product you own. Everything you own is engineered well? Really? I don't think so... they aren't perfect, and sometimes they aren't allowed to address a design flaw, depending on where it is in the process. A better measure is real world performance. And that's what we see posted on forums.

I'm glad some people got good units and they perform as you expect, but a lot of us got lemons. Anyway, I hung around here just to see if my experience was atypical and how things are progressing. I think I've given out all the info I had and I feel like I'm rehashing known issues. I wish all of you who keep the 7400 the best of luck. Cya on the other threads, guys!
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post #833 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 09:53 PM
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If this thing included Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and a cable card slot, then I would be willing to pay $400. As it is, it would only be worth $250 to me. Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and cable card would each be worth $50 more to me. I could do without 2 tuners and the internet capabilities.

How can we say "the digital transition is complete" when thousands of low power stations are still broadcasting in analog?
LOW POWER ANALOG NEEDS TO DIE NOW!!!
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post #834 of 1996 Old 01-12-2012, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

If this thing included Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and a cable card slot, then I would be willing to pay $400. As it is, it would only be worth $250 to me. Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and cable card would each be worth $50 more to me. I could do without 2 tuners and the internet capabilities.

Well if the 7400, or even any other device, did include Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and a cable card slot. Then it would also most likely be priced at somewhere around $1000, and not $400. Combined with the US DMCA laws, and the way the movie industry has them enforced, your chances of seeing device with Blu-ray burner that can easily copy HD TV show and movies, is probably never going to happen here in the US.
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post #835 of 1996 Old 01-13-2012, 05:01 AM
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You missed my point. If you think everything is great and you are satisfied then by all means keep it and be happy. BUT if you are expecting the company to make improvements and you are not entirely happy with what you have then the only thing that will encourage CM to make an improvement is if you do not accept the problem. Give it back to them. Enjoy and I hope it works for you. I have a 7000 that works fine and I will only buy a 7400 when the majority of responders are happy.

I think many are missing the point here. Please do not take this the wrong way!
This is a new product, ever new product release gets firmware updates, EVERY ONE.
The 7000 is a fine machine, refined because it was on the market a while.
The 7400 is even a better machine and will continue to be refined.
I hope you realize the people who are having most issues with this brand new product are the ones with cable TV.
Since the 7000 does not do cable TV you can not compare it to the 7400. you are comparing apples to grapes.
Also some say there is a heat problem and dont buy the product until Channel Master fixes it. Well Channel Master says it is designed the way it is and no problem with the heat. I think I believe the engineers who designed the thing. But I will find out.

Been using my 7400 2 days now, no issues at all.
Some have gone as far saying it is so hot they can not keep their fingers on the unit for more then 2 seconds. Well let me say here, I have found no such thing with my unit, the bottom is very warm, that is all, approx. 125 degrees which is what was designed into the unit. (see update in latest post.)
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post #836 of 1996 Old 01-13-2012, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post

Unfortunately the only way this product is ever going to be improved is if we do not buy it. As long as people buy it and provide their own fixes the manufacturer has no incentive to do anything. If you truely want CM to do something, send your unit back and tell them why. At the very least this will hasten there dropping the price when they want to get rid of a marketing failure. Money talks, everything else is pointless. Sorry to burst your bubble but unless you hold a gun to their proverbial head they are only going to laugh their way to the bank with your money!

Did you purchase a 7400?
I did, and I am very happy with it so far. I will post an honest review in a week or two, Last two days it has been hooked up has been flawless.
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post #837 of 1996 Old 01-13-2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post

Your DSL modem is probably one of the Motorola 2210 "EZ-Bake" series. (Some people apply that term to only a certain serial number range, but all 2210's seem to run pretty warm.) I had a 2210-02-1022 that worked great for a year or so, then connections started getting flaky.

Yes, thats the one! 2210 02 1006 is even older then yours, still going strong.
I almost want to replace the darn thing, thinking anything a couple years old has got to be improved by now but in reality the DSL modems now are a lot fast then the connections. I have somewhere around 12 WiFi devices in the house, without a hic-cup. still using a Netgear WGR614 v7 router.
I am to afraid to upgrade it, darn network in my house is so rock solid even the kids cant screw it up. I guess that is for another forum but to me, to change out a rock solid netgear Wireless g for a new wireless N doesnt really makes sense if you only have DSL 3.0 extreme, correct?
I am getting bored that I have never had to upgrade it, tempted so many times but doenst make sense since the router is way faster then the connection anyway.
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post #838 of 1996 Old 01-13-2012, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by blocknlot View Post

I think many are missing the point here. Please do not take this the wrong way!
This is a new product, ever new product release gets firmware updates, EVERY ONE.
The 7000 is a fine machine, refined because it was on the market a while.
The 7400 is even a better machine and will continue to be refined.
I hope you realize the people who are having most issues with this brand new product are the ones with cable TV.
Since the 7000 does not do cable TV you can not compare it to the 7400. you are comparing apples to grapes.
Also some say there is a heat problem and dont buy the product until Channel Master fixes it. Well Channel Master says it is designed the way it is and no problem with the heat. I think I believe the engineers who designed the thing. But I will find out.

Been using my 7400 2 days now, no issues at all.
Some have gone as far saying it is so hot they can not keep their fingers on the unit for more then 2 seconds. Well let me say here, I have found no such thing with my unit, the bottom is very warm, that is all, approx. 125 degrees which is what was designed into the unit. (see update in latest post.)

I can't agree with adding a QAM tuner makes the units different. I can agree that the two units should not be compared, but that's because they are different units. CM didn't just add a QAM tuner, they made a new product (you said that). It has to start at square one. That's only fair. OK, life's not fair.

The temp on my (S__y) DVR motherboard is 10F above room temp. The HDD is 20F to 25F above room temp. The HD2500 has over 27,000 hours on it. Since all the vents are underneath or in the rear, the top metal surface is (maybe) 5F above room temp. The 7400 can be used as a room heater as long as it works.
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post #839 of 1996 Old 01-13-2012, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Desert Hawk View Post

If this thing included Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and a cable card slot, then I would be willing to pay $400. As it is, it would only be worth $250 to me. Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and cable card would each be worth $50 more to me. I could do without 2 tuners and the internet capabilities.

The era of stand-alone disk burning recorders is dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Well if the 7400, or even any other device, did include Blu-Ray recording, DVD recording, and a cable card slot. Then it would also most likely be priced at somewhere around $1000, and not $400.

And that is the real reason why we will never see them -- the US consumers are simply not willing to pay that much money for that kind of device. Not any more, anyway. There is no US consumer market for disk-burning recorders.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #840 of 1996 Old 01-13-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

No, but they lowered it from $100 to $50 per year.

Thanks. I found it here.
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