Channel Master TV CM 7400 HD DVR - OTA, Clear QAM, Internet Content - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 07:55 AM
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Even though it's a Channel Master 7400 thread, and people have been asked to keep it on topic, the almost constant talk about Tivo in this tread continues. Please people, drop the Tivo stuff, and keep it on topic.
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post #1082 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I would tread carefully before purchasing this device for clear QAM. Depending on your cable system it could be an expensive lesson in frustration.

You're so right, but I can't understand the sentence:

"Originally Posted by Desert Hawk:
If I do end up buying a 7400 it will be used with clear QAM and no guide service since the whole purpose would be to avoid monthly fees."

Isn't cable a monthly fee?

I have a digital tuner on my TV, as do most people anymore. Any cable person who wants to see what clear raw QAM looks like, just run that cable from the wall to the TV's rf input and do a channel scan. That's what the 7400 should see. There could be problems, like SDV or lack of HD, but it should be worth the time for anyone considering the CM-7400 to see what their provider sends down the wire. All cable feeds are local.

If you don't have a digital tuner in your TV, there's not much I can say.
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post #1083 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R
TiVo would be less expensive after four years if you purchase the extended guide... not more expensive.


I'm sure he can do the math. He just consistently chooses not to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm sure he can do the math. He just consistently chooses not to.

Your amazing Kelson, insulting is a better word. So jaded, go back and read the post. I am sure you can do the math. Ummm ... $600 for a DVR is more then $400 for a DVR. You can throw it and twist it anyway you want ...
I didnt want to comment on this post but could not help myself because it is more like a personal attack and a baseless one at that.
Im done, say what you want and I will be the "bigger" - mature person and keep quiet for the benefit of this thread.

I can understand Charles post "If you purchase the extended guide" after 4 years ... yes, again. the word "IF" Well guess what? if I choose not to "purchase the entended guide" the 7400 is $200 less.
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post #1084 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 09:22 AM
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Maybe we could add price discussion as an "off topic" posting? That would be a real buzz kill for some people, but we all need to sacrifice in these trying times.
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post #1085 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcnetwrx View Post

However, if I always turn it on sometime in the morning and step through the channels, then the guide updates and all of my shows record.

Do you really have to manually step through the channels yourself? That would imply the PSIP guide never updates for any channels you don't watch. Is that the case? I have found with other PSIP devices that if you tune at least a single sub-channel in a group the entire groups PSIP info is updated. But what about a channel group that you don't watch for a couple days. Does the PSIP info in the guide remain absent until you tune it in?

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post #1086 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Do you really have to manually step through the channels yourself?

These are the type of things I'm interested in. Along with the other questions I asked which were never answered... I'd love more info about the CM7400...
  • Is the guide self-updating?
  • Will season passes pickup a repeat if it was skipped over by recording higher priority shows?
  • Does it have a 30-day rule so it doesn't record reruns endlessly?
  • How does the under the hood season pass process work... resolve conflicts, etc.

Having only played with it for half an hour it was impossible to judge how the little things that makes or breaks the user experience (in my eyes). Such as recording repeats... personally, I'd pay more than $50 for such. I presume if you have three shows scheduled for the same time and if one is a repeat (and it's a higher priority) it would get recorded and you would miss the first run show. It would be great if someone put together a FAQ for the CM7400 similar to the one for the original Dish OTA DVR.
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post #1087 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 10:55 AM
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For 1) - yes, it's self-updating.
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post #1088 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

For 1) - yes, it's self-updating.

Under what conditions?

I have already had it happen once where I did not turn on my 7400 all day and had it miss recording one of my news shows that I watch because the guide was never updated and it still said To Be Announced when I did finally turn it on to watch my recording that wasn't there.

With the CM7400 is turning it off... actually turning it off or placing it in standby? I'm presuming it's shutting down everything and powering down. Most DVR's don't have power switches...
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post #1089 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 11:42 AM
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No condition - that's one of regular background tasks of DVR as a class of devices.

It's going to standby after receiving power off command.

You getting it wrong - all DVR (include sat and cable) does turn off video/audio output and corresponding processing, but still do a lot of 'housekeeping' including update EPG and recording scheduled events.
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post #1090 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Under what conditions?

I have already had it happen once where I did not turn on my 7400 all day and had it miss recording one of my news shows that I watch because the guide was never updated and it still said To Be Announced when I did finally turn it on to watch my recording that wasn't there.

With the CM7400 is turning it off... actually turning it off or placing it in standby? I'm presuming it's shutting down everything and powering down. Most DVR's don't have power switches...

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

No condition - that's one of regular background tasks of DVR as a class of devices.

It's going to standby after receiving power off command.

You getting it wrong - all DVR (include sat and cable) does turn off video/audio output and corresponding processing, but still do a lot of 'housekeeping' including update EPG and recording scheduled events.

Draw your own conclusions: it uses 24 watts unless you pull the power plug.

It's not a DVR requirement, it's a guide or update requirement. It's also raised the vampire power need for devices that use web/iPhone control, like my AVR (if enabled). At midnight my TV will look for TVGOS and firmware updates (if enabled). At midnight & noon my Mag DVDR will turn on to check for clock updates (if enabled). Every device has its own characteristics. That's why threads like this are fun.

Spec sheet page:

http://www.channelmaster.com/Channel...r_TV_s/304.htm

No mention of power needs.
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post #1091 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

You getting it wrong - all DVR (include sat and cable) does turn off video/audio output and corresponding processing, but still do a lot of 'housekeeping' including update EPG and recording scheduled events.

Then why did he miss his recording? Did you read his post...
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post #1092 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 12:40 PM
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REVIEW: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Ch...V-review.shtml


Attachment 237465
"How hot is it? Super hot. According to our trusty IR camera, the Channel Master TV clocked in at 122.9 degrees to be precise, compared to 86.6 for a DISH DVR and 87.9 for an Onkyo receiver. [Photo taken with a FLIR ThermaCAM PM 595 thermal imaging camera.]"
LL

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post #1093 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPIZ View Post

How hot is it?
According to our trusty IR camera, the Channel Master TV clocked in at 122.9 degrees to be precise, compared to 86.6 for a DISH DVR and 87.9 for an Onkyo receiver. [Photo taken with a FLIR ThermaCAM PM 595 thermal imaging camera.]

I see torches and pitchforks coming.
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post #1094 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Under what conditions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

No condition - that's one of regular background tasks of DVR as a class of devices.

It's going to standby after receiving power off command.

You getting it wrong - all DVR (include sat and cable) does turn off video/audio output and corresponding processing, but still do a lot of 'housekeeping' including update EPG and recording scheduled events.

That may very well be for unified guide information that comes from a single source (i.e. a guide service) such as an Internet connection or as in the case of TVGOS, supplied from the broadcast bandwidth of a single channel. In that case the DVR makes a single connection and downloads the entire guide database for all the channels in one shot.

Such is not the case for PSIP information which is supplied by each channel individually. Each channel group must be tuned and polled by the DVR to receive the PSIP data for that specific channel group and create a composite guide.

So the question at hand is: For the "free" guide, does the CM-7400 poll all (any) channels during standby to collect the individual PSIP information and update the guide on its own.

Given all the OTA users out there this should be easy enough to answer. Don't watch or tune in a specific channel group for a day and see if the guide updates from where you started. That means not scanning through it while channel surfing either.

- kelson h

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post #1095 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

That may very well be for unified guide information that comes from a single source (i.e. a guide service) such as an Internet connection or as in the case of TVGOS, supplied from the broadcast bandwidth of a single channel. In that case the DVR makes a single connection and downloads the entire guide database for all the channels in one shot.

Such is not the case for PSIP information which is supplied by each channel individually. Each channel group must be tuned an polled by the DVR to receive the PSIP data for that specific channel groups and create a composite guide.

So the question at hand is: For the "free" guide, does the CM-7400 poll all (any) channels during standby to collect the individual PSIP information and update the guide on its own.

Given all the OTA users out there this should be easy enough to answer. Don't watch or tune in a specific channel group for a day and see if the guide updates from where you started. That means not scanning through it while channel surfing either.

In my opinion, the CM-7400 can get its clock set via the internet. That should be easy to test also. It may be harder to figure out how it gets the clock, but that's above my pay grade.
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post #1096 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 01:31 PM
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Two issues that have repeatedly come up here are 'guide data' and 'clear QAM' channels. SchedulesDirect.org is a service that provides complete guide data, including OTA, cable and satellite. The current cost of an account with them is $6 for two months, or $25 for a year. They have a 7 day free trial.

I am OTA. I decided to see what Schedules Direct provided for cable, so I went into my account and set up a new account. You enter your zip code and then select from an extensive list of all ota, cable, and satellite providers for that area. I selected Bright House South, and this is what I got:
2 WCLF
3 WEDU
4 WTOG
5 WFTT
...
99 TVGN
There were also some sports channels listed separately.

You can click on any channel and deactivate it, so your epg will include only the channels you want.

Most free HTPC software supports SchedulesDirect. MythTV in Linux, and Media Portal and NextPVR in windows. When you setup a HTPC, in the configuration menu you would enter your SchedulesDirect UserID, Password, and how many days of data you wanted.

It's a shame that none of these OTA DVRs, like the DISH Pal and CM7400, support Schedules Direct. It would be a perfect matchup.
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post #1097 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:05 PM
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Just to make it clear since there seems to be some question as to what I did and what occurred, I left the 7400 in Standby all day without turning it on. The channel I had scheduled a recording for every day using the name of the program (not the old-style VCR timing but rather more like a season pass, i.e. Record Series) did not record because the guide had not updated all day. That particular channel only provides about 8 hours of future data. So since I did not turn it on all day, the data was out of date and when I did turn it on, that channel showed To Be Announced which is why it did not record. I am thinking, but am not absolutely positive, that when I put it in Standby the day before it was done while on a different channel than that one. So it seems clear that the 7400 does not automatically scan channels while it is in Standby, which is the request that I put in to ChannelMaster for a future firmware upgrade.

Since that day, I have made sure to turn on the 7400 some time during the day and step through all channels (at least the main ones, not necessarily the sub-channels) and I have not had a problem since then with it missing any recordings.
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post #1098 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB100 View Post

Two issues that have repeatedly come up here are 'guide data' and 'clear QAM' channels. SchedulesDirect.org is a service that provides complete guide data, including OTA, cable and satellite. The current cost of an account with them is $6 for two months, or $25 for a year. They have a 7 day free trial.

I am OTA. I decided to see what Schedules Direct provided for cable, so I went into my account and set up a new account. You enter your zip code and then select from an extensive list of all ota, cable, and satellite providers for that area. I selected Bright House South, and this is what I got:
2 WCLF
3 WEDU
4 WTOG
5 WFTT
...
99 TVGN
There were also some sports channels listed separately.

You can click on any channel and deactivate it, so your epg will include only the channels you want.

Most free HTPC software supports SchedulesDirect. MythTV in Linux, and Media Portal and NextPVR in windows. When you setup a HTPC, in the configuration menu you would enter your SchedulesDirect UserID, Password, and how many days of data you wanted.

It's a shame that none of these OTA DVRs, like the DISH Pal and CM7400, support Schedules Direct. It would be a perfect matchup.

Plug your rf cable into your digital TV and scan for digital cable channels. Do they match your epg channels? Or check my zipcode, 17851, and see if MSNBC pops up as 28.6308 like it does on my TV in 480i, or WYOU as 85.1501 (1080i). Shouldn't be hard. If you can map channels, you can control what you see vs. what you select. I think the 7400 has a mapping function but I never tried to use it.

It is a very interesting idea. Here's the URL: http://www.schedulesdirect.org/aboutus

I have a Hauppage 950Q and 1950. If WMC wasn't such a pig for memory, I might be using it now.
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post #1099 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcnetwrx View Post

Just to make it clear since there seems to be some question as to what I did and what occurred, I left the 7400 in Standby all day without turning it on. The channel I had scheduled a recording for every day using the name of the program (not the old-style VCR timing but rather more like a season pass, i.e. Record Series) did not record because the guide had not updated all day. That particular channel only provides about 8 hours of future data. So since I did not turn it on all day, the data was out of date and when I did turn it on, that channel showed To Be Announced which is why it did not record. I am thinking, but am not absolutely positive, that when I put it in Standby the day before it was done while on a different channel than that one. So it seems clear that the 7400 does not automatically scan channels while it is in Standby, which is the request that I put in to ChannelMaster for a future firmware upgrade.

Since that day, I have made sure to turn on the 7400 some time during the day and step through all channels (at least the main ones, not necessarily the sub-channels) and I have not had a problem since then with it missing any recordings.

Wow.
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post #1100 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

In my opinion, the CM-7400 can get its clock set via the internet. That should be easy to test also. It may be harder to figure out how it gets the clock, but that's above my pay grade.

Answered - post#1008
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post #1101 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

That may very well be for unified guide information that comes from a single source (i.e. a guide service) such as an Internet connection or as in the case of TVGOS, supplied from the broadcast bandwidth of a single channel. In that case the DVR makes a single connection and downloads the entire guide database for all the channels in one shot.

Such is not the case for PSIP information which is supplied by each channel individually. Each channel group must be tuned an polled by the DVR to receive the PSIP data for that specific channel groups and create a composite guide.

So the question at hand is: For the "free" guide, does the CM-7400 poll all (any) channels during standby to collect the individual PSIP information and update the guide on its own.

Given all the OTA users out there this should be easy enough to answer. Don't watch or tune in a specific channel group for a day and see if the guide updates from where you started. That means not scanning through it while channel surfing either.

Depend of load of the two tuners - if one is free, then it will be used for scan freqs and updating PSIP; if both busy - no way to update other then the two [or one freq] locked by the tuners.
Same for standby/offline mode.
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post #1102 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPPIZ View Post

REVIEW: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Ch...V-review.shtml


Attachment 237465
"How hot is it? Super hot. According to our trusty IR camera, the Channel Master TV clocked in at 122.9 degrees to be precise, compared to 86.6 for a DISH DVR and 87.9 for an Onkyo receiver. [Photo taken with a FLIR ThermaCAM PM 595 thermal imaging camera.]"

Seep post#1008 - CPU's heat-sink has 70 C, HDD - 40 C without a cover...
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post #1103 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Then why did he miss his recording? Did you read his post...

Could be FW bugs ...
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post #1104 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcnetwrx View Post

Just to make it clear since there seems to be some question as to what I did and what occurred, I left the 7400 in Standby all day without turning it on. The channel I had scheduled a recording for every day using the name of the program (not the old-style VCR timing but rather more like a season pass, i.e. Record Series) did not record because the guide had not updated all day. That particular channel only provides about 8 hours of future data. So since I did not turn it on all day, the data was out of date and when I did turn it on, that channel showed To Be Announced which is why it did not record. I am thinking, but am not absolutely positive, that when I put it in Standby the day before it was done while on a different channel than that one. So it seems clear that the 7400 does not automatically scan channels while it is in Standby, which is the request that I put in to ChannelMaster for a future firmware upgrade.

Since that day, I have made sure to turn on the 7400 some time during the day and step through all channels (at least the main ones, not necessarily the sub-channels) and I have not had a problem since then with it missing any recordings.

Nasty bug, definitely ! It's against all rules of gathering EPG data.
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post #1105 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Plug your rf cable into your digital TV and scan for digital cable channels. Do they match your epg channels? Or check my zipcode, 17851, and see if MSNBC pops up as 28.6308 like it does on my TV in 480i, or WYOU as 85.1501 (1080i). Shouldn't be hard. If you can map channels, you can control what you see vs. what you select. I think the 7400 has a mapping function but I never tried to use it.

It is a very interesting idea. Here's the URL: http://www.schedulesdirect.org/aboutus

I have a Hauppage 950Q and 1950. If WMC wasn't such a pig for memory, I might be using it now.

As I said in my post I'm OTA. I recall reading on the NextPVR
web site that after doing your initial channel scan, you go into configuration and select a channel. Then you select the appropriate ScheduleDirect channel. You'd map all your channels this way one time.
.
Check out the forums on NextPVR. Very informative.
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post #1106 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Answered - post#1008

My mistake. I should have said "how does it get the clock from the internet?"
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post #1107 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB100 View Post

As I said in my post I'm OTA. I recall reading on the NextPVR
web site that after doing your initial channel scan, you go into configuration and select a channel. Then you select the appropriate ScheduleDirect channel. You'd map all your channels this way one time.
.
Check out the forums on NextPVR. Very informative.

Thank you. I have done that mapping with TitanTV.com already. Nothing I have can read that data except me. Since I get 3 NBC stations, sometimes they don't always agree.
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post #1108 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joekustra View Post

my mistake. I should have said "how does it get the clock from the internet?"

Using NTP.
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post #1109 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by p smith View Post

using ntp.

url?
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post #1110 of 2005 Old 02-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Depend of load of the two tuners - if one is free, then it will be used for scan freqs and updating PSIP; if both busy - no way to update other then the two [or one freq] locked by the tuners.
Same for standby/offline mode.

I know how it can be done. The question is whether or not the CM-7400 does it. And so far, according to pcnetwrx's experience, it does not. Others should be testing it out.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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