Channel Master TV CM 7400 HD DVR - OTA, Clear QAM, Internet Content - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 10:48 AM
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Based on the manual, it appears there will be a 'series' feature with option to record all episodes or exclude previously recorded episodes. That assumes consistency in data entry not always present in PSIP guides.
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post #92 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobedo View Post

Does this mean you know something we don't ?
Joe

No, I'm referring to the well known precarious financial position of TiVo.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...levels/101743/

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tiv...les-2011-08-24

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post #93 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 02:28 PM
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Thanks for the links to the manual. I see on page 62 instructions for copying media to the device, and for deleting media from the device.

However there are no instructions for copying media from the device (to an external device). I gather that such functionality is not available.

As I wish to be able to archive (and backup) selected TV programs, the CMTV 7400 will not work for me.
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post #94 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

However there are no instructions for copying media from the device (to an external device). I gather that such functionality is not available.

In HD, possibly not. But composite out 420i shouldn't be a problem.

What kills it for me is that monthly fee, just to get decent guide data. That, along with the price for what you'd get without it. If I could live with just PSIP data, I'd get the Pal DVR, or if I wanted the better guide, a TiVo w/lifetime instead.

As far as having Vudu, I don't put my priorities very high for getting that with a DVR, because I don't expect it to be a "cost-effective alternative" for very long. And remember, you can't always avoid commercials with streaming, either. Even if I wanted it now, I very likely may not in a year's time. I'd be more inclined to go with a separate streaming box, which can get a lot of other stuff, too, for that.

YMMV, though.
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post #95 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

In HD, possibly not. But composite out 420i probably won't be a problem.

My hope was that I'd be able to simply copy/archive HD video files to an external drive. I could understand not being able to do that for premium or streamed video. But why not for OTA ATSC or Clear QAM?
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post #96 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

My hope was that I'd be able to simply copy/archive HD video files to an external drive. I could understand not being able to do that for premium or streamed video. But why not for OTA ATSC or Clear QAM?

You can copy SD, but not HD.
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post #97 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Johnson View Post

Thanks for the links to the manual. I see on page 62 instructions for copying media to the device, and for deleting media from the device.

However there are no instructions for copying media from the device (to an external device). I gather that such functionality is not available.

As I wish to be able to archive (and backup) selected TV programs, the CMTV 7400 will not work for me.

Then get a TiVo, it will do that.

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post #98 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

In HD, possibly not. But composite out 420i shouldn't be a problem.

What kills it for me is that monthly fee, just to get decent guide data. That, along with the price for what you'd get without it. If I could live with just PSIP data, I'd get the Pal DVR, or if I wanted the better guide, a TiVo w/lifetime instead.

As far as having Vudu, I don't put my priorities very high for getting that with a DVR, because I don't expect it to be a "cost-effective alternative" for very long. And remember, you can't always avoid commercials with streaming, either. Even if I wanted it now, I very likely may not in a year's time. I'd be more inclined to go with a separate streaming box, which can get a lot of other stuff, too, for that.

YMMV, though.

How much is CM charging for renting a VUDU movie?

VUDU charges on their website:
Rent

HDX
$ 5.99


HD
$ 4.99


SD
$ 3.99


Are CM prices the same?
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post #99 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

How much is CM charging for renting a VUDU movie?

VUDU charges on their website:
Rent

HDX
$ 5.99


HD
$ 4.99


SD
$ 3.99


Are CM prices the same?

Why would they be any different. The CM7400 is just the box conveying the signal like a "Roku or any other player that supports Vudu playback; you are still renting the content from Vudu.

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post #100 of 1996 Old 09-24-2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post

Then get a TiVo, it will do that.

Thanks, but I'd rather not...

For now I will stay with my Pinnacle 80e USB tuner sticks and simple date;channel;start/end time interface. (I use the WDTV boxes to playback the HDTV recordings to my projector or TV.) I might try a WinTV-Aero-M tuner as it has the latest generation ATSC tuner.
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post #101 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

No, I'm referring to the well known precarious financial position of TiVo.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...levels/101743/
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tiv...les-2011-08-24

It wasn't that "well known" since I thought there were well in the black.

Blame it on lazy Americans that want the easy way to do things and TiVo's overpriced 'subscription' cost coupled to the fact"lifetime" is tied to the device, not the owner!
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However there are no instructions for copying media from the device (to an external device). I gather that such functionality is not available.

Nor is the external port enabled.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #102 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 10:17 AM
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I get TVGOS
without problems on all ch with original DTVPAL DVR
If I use the new CM 7400 without subscribing to guide will I lose TVGOS and fall back to PSIP?
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post #103 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post

I get TVGOS
without problems on all ch with original DTVPAL DVR
If I use the new CM 7400 without subscribing to guide will I lose TVGOS and fall back to PSIP?

That's what it looks like according to posts here.
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post #104 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

It wasn't that "well known" since I thought there were well in the black.

It should be well known to anyone who follows TiVo and the industry. Has been for years, since they lost the DirecTV deal its been all down hill.

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post #105 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post

I get TVGOS
without problems on all ch with original DTVPAL DVR
If I use the new CM 7400 without subscribing to guide will I lose TVGOS and fall back to PSIP?

Yes, you will.

I don't know that it's specifically TVGOS data that you would get if you paid, but it should be pretty equal.

Hopefully the reviews will start soon. I wouldn't expect to see too many reviewing it with the subscription, though, at least at first. Most will probably want to keep things as uncomplicated as possible, in order to return it easier.

It does have a heck of a lot better-looking menus than the Pal, but that wouldn't really be nearly enough to sway me over, personally.
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post #106 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Yes, you will.

I don't know that it's specifically TVGOS data that you would get if you paid, but it should be pretty equal.

Hopefully the reviews will start soon. I wouldn't expect to see too many reviewing it with the subscription, though, at least at first. Most will probably want to keep things as uncomplicated as possible, in order to return it easier.

It does have a heck of a lot better-looking menus than the Pal, but that wouldn't really be nearly enough to sway me over, personally.

Why would they not offer Three options

1) PSIP
2) FREE TVGOS (TVGuide)

3) A 14 day internet guide with better info

Seems to me that there must be LITTLE difference between TVGOS and the $100 Internet guide and if they offered the FREE TVGOS. That no one would pay $100 per year.

Seems greedy to me.
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post #107 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 05:43 PM
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If they offered TVGOS service they would have to pay Rovi a fee. I'm not sure how high but it would be something. It might also add to the cost and complexity to incorporate 3 different guide systems. Just speculating though as to why they might not offer TVGOS I agree though, it would have been nice to have all three options.
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post #108 of 1996 Old 09-25-2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Why would they not offer Three options

1) PSIP
2) FREE TVGOS (TVGuide)

3) A 14 day internet guide with better info

Seems to me that there must be LITTLE difference between TVGOS and the $100 Internet guide

My guess would be it's because they learned their lesson with TVGOS on the CM7000 Pal DVR. Anyone who has followed the PAL DVR threads knows that TVGOS is a train-wreck for a lot of people. Although there are a lot of people who post on these threads with their TVGOS problems, there is probably 10X as many people who don't and who are calling Channel Master for support of their product -- you know, common people who expect a $350 device to work as advertised. Even if CM can't provide adequate support for firmware deficiencies they have no control over, they still have to field the calls of disgruntled customers when the phone rings.

My guess is that when they started talking to the developers of the next-Gen Pal DVR, the first thing on their list was to get rid of that damn TVGOS. They finally figured out what TiVo knew 10 years ago -- a dependable guide that you could build your system around is not free.

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post #109 of 1996 Old 09-26-2011, 03:35 AM
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Quote:


If I use the new CM 7400 without subscribing to guide will I lose TVGOS and fall back to PSIP?

Hasn't it been stated that the data come from Tribune Media?
Quote:


If they offered TVGOS service they would have to pay Rovi a fee.

That's the source of the data with the original DTVPal.
Quote:


Anyone who has followed the PAL DVR threads knows that TVGOS is a train-wreck for a lot of people.

The problem is NOT Rovi, but the firmware/software that Echostar uses (now PCT) for the display of that data. Rovi's data is there, but the Guide doesn't see all of it.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #110 of 1996 Old 09-26-2011, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Hasn't it been stated that the data come from Tribune Media?That's the source of the data with the original DTVPal. The problem is NOT Rovi, but the firmware/software that Echostar uses (now PCT) for the display of that data. Rovi's data is there, but the Guide doesn't see all of it.

Was EchoStar supposed to show ROVI TVGOS with Advertisements? I read that somewhere.

The TVGOS fee could not be much if people got it included in the DTVpal for life.

Seems to me that $8 per month is alot of money for just a simple guide.

Has it been determined if the guide is 7 or 14days?
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post #111 of 1996 Old 09-26-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Was EchoStar supposed to show ROVI TVGOS with Advertisements? I read that somewhere.

The TVGOS fee could not be much if people got it included in the DTVpal for life.

Seems to me that $8 per month is alot of money for just a simple guide.

Has it been determined if the guide is 7 or 14days?

The reason EchoStar was able to price the DTVPal DVR at such a low price point and offer TVGOS is a licensing agreement / settlement from 2004 with Gemstar (now Rovi).

http://www.allbusiness.com/company-a...5633794-1.html

It cost them nothing to use the TVGOS data.
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post #112 of 1996 Old 09-26-2011, 09:24 AM
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When TVGOS was Gemstar, I ran into a marketing page showing licensing cost to manufacturers was under $15 per unit in lots of 100K. People assumed Dish got a TVGOS deal for the TR50, not that it would be free. If Gemstar's lawyers were any good, the 2004 deal would be limited to sat and not extend to stand-alone OTA recorders. Ads may have been part of the deal. Anticipation of ads may explain why the Pal's TVGOS data falls short. Forum members with multiple devices reported their other TVGOS devices got full TVGOS data, it was just the Pal that was incomplete. Perhaps the Pal's design reserved guide memory for ads.

CM's pre-release info has the feel of being rushed, with conflicting specs, dead links, and referrals to a site under construction. I bet they are running late, no chance to work with the final product. The photo of the guide shows an "HD" program flag for a substation labeled SD. So either it's a mockup, or the guide isn't very smart. Another reason I think they're running late: if I were planning a new OTA recorder, I'd want it released before Fall premiere week.
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post #113 of 1996 Old 09-26-2011, 02:18 PM
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dvdchance; Nice find!
One would think paying that much up front, they would/could continue to use Rovi's data.
Quote:


if I were planning a new OTA recorder, I'd want it released before Fall premiere week.

But, there is always Xmas.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #114 of 1996 Old 09-28-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

The reason EchoStar was able to price the DTVPal DVR at such a low price point and offer TVGOS is a licensing agreement / settlement from 2004 with Gemstar (now Rovi).

http://www.allbusiness.com/company-a...5633794-1.html

It cost them nothing to use the TVGOS data.

I am guessing this has included NOT using ads on the tvguide screen?

If so that was a cool score
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post #115 of 1996 Old 09-29-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post


If so that was a cool score

Maybe yes, maybe no. They did have to pay $190m cash. I have no idea what the original dispute between them was nor the merits of Gemstar's lawsuit.

We saw how Echostar wasn't so eager to settle the Tivo dispute recently though.
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post #116 of 1996 Old 09-29-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post

Maybe yes, maybe no. They did have to pay $190m cash. I have no idea what the original dispute between them was nor the merits of Gemstar's lawsuit.

We saw how Echostar wasn't so eager to settle the Tivo dispute recently though.

But the result was that the DTVDVR has tvguide with NO ads.

I guess we got the benefit. I seriously doubt that the DTVDVR has enough memory for color ads anyway.
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post #117 of 1996 Old 09-29-2011, 12:40 PM
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The ads never really bothered me. They were off to one side, and I never found them intrusive, and they only took up a minority of the screen area.

I considered it a small price to pay for an entirely dependable, free, quality guide.
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post #118 of 1996 Old 09-30-2011, 10:14 AM
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this started out good but with all the add on fees it is as bad as tivo.
$400 for this unit and small drive is too high, and the $100 a year is double/triple what it should be.

overall I think I will pass. Maybe one day before comcast and at&t kill off ota someone might bring out a good unit at a good price that offers more and is expandable.

thanks for posting about this and glad I read up on it.

ps I am still betting that on release (promotion) you get a year free of the guide and and option to buy lifetime (of the unit)
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post #119 of 1996 Old 09-30-2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etrin View Post

this started out good but with all the add on fees it is as bad as tivo.
$400 for this unit and small drive is too high, and the $100 a year is double/triple what it should be.

overall I think I will pass. Maybe one day before comcast and at&t kill off ota someone might bring out a good unit at a good price that offers more and is expandable.

thanks for posting about this and glad I read up on it.

ps I am still betting that on release (promotion) you get a year free of the guide and and option to buy lifetime (of the unit)

Yes I agree. At $100 per year for a guide and no lifetime offer. The tivo looks like a better deal.

Even though I do not have this box yet. If I was a betting man. i would bet that the tivo has a better (more detailed) guide.
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post #120 of 1996 Old 10-01-2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Yes I agree. At $100 per year for a guide and no lifetime offer. The tivo looks like a better deal.

Even though I do not have this box yet. If I was a betting man. i would bet that the tivo has a better (more detailed) guide.

It is always hard to know but with the TiVo Premiere at $99 and OTA only service at $10/mo (special offer through 11/15/11 see SolidSignal) seems hard to believe the TiVo isn't a better deal.

The best deal was the recent TiVo promotion I mentioned earlier in this thread where anyone could have gotten a Premiere with lifetime service for $450 but that is over.

Thanks,
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