Ceton announces new 6-tuner outboard whole-house DVR system - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 177 Old 01-20-2012, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Slingbox has been allowed to exist with nary a challenge from any CC; at least AFAIK.

Apples and oranges, I believe.

DRM is concerned strictly with the 100% original bit-for-bit digital duplicate of the content, as delivered from the content provider in digital form. This is in the neighborhood of 4-9GB for an hour of program time, depending on the effect of MPEG-2 compression used. Could be 13GB for a 2-hour show, for example. This is what gets offloaded from DVR to DVHS tape via firewire in a 5C-allowed environment. But you can't offload the same exact program from DVR to PC (which is not 5C-compliant).

It is this digital duplicate that DRM is concerned protecting. If you choose to take the S-video equivalent, or a high-quality analog re-compress, or tape it to your VHS VCR... the suits couldn't care less. Fine. Do it.

They only want to prevent you from making your own digital duplicate of "Jurassic Park" so that you can sell the perfect quality counterfeit in China.

What gets sent to your smart phone is not 13GB of HDTV digital content. It's been recompressed and resized, for obviously practical and available bandwidth necessity.


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Secondly, TWC has client software for iOS that allow Apple handheld devices to receive TWC media over the Internet. Clearly, TWC is not dogmatically opposed to the concept.

Again... they don't care if you work with anything less than a 100% digital duplicate of the original. And neither phone-suitable or Sling-suitable content is that 13GB digital duplicate. It's resized and highly recompressed from the original, although its still is acceptable and usable... on your phone, or Sling.
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post #32 of 177 Old 01-20-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Secondly, TWC has client software for iOS that allow Apple handheld devices to receive TWC media over the Internet. Clearly, TWC is not dogmatically opposed to the concept.

As long as you are renting an STB from them ...


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post #33 of 177 Old 01-21-2012, 06:37 AM
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If they have 30 second skip it could be a huge draw for TiVo users. Very interesting technology.

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post #34 of 177 Old 01-21-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

If they have 30 second skip it could be a huge draw for TiVo users. Very interesting technology.

Can't be that interesting. Moxi has had 30 second to 5 minute skip options for over two years and not many TiVo users jumped over.

It would take more than one option to pry TiVo fans away from their hardware. To begin with Ceton need to get this in stores and have shelf presence.


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post #35 of 177 Old 01-21-2012, 10:17 AM
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Media Center has had 30 second skip from the beginning. And you can jump forward to any point in the show by just typing in the # of minutes.
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post #36 of 177 Old 01-21-2012, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

Media Center has had 30 second skip from the beginning. And you can jump forward to any point in the show by just typing in the # of minutes.

What is ths method? I'm not familiar with it?

I AM familiar with the "skip multiplier" method in WMC, where you enter a number using the remote keypad (although perhaps if I typed that number on the computer's keyboard it would also be equivalent) and then quickly push the "skip forward 30-seconds" button. WMC performs a skip forward that is measured by that (number * 30-seconds) in duration, i.e. "N 30-second skips".

So if you enter 6 and then quickly push "skip 30-seconds", you will skip 6 * 30 seconds = 3 minutes, etc.

The reason I say "then quickly push" after entering the first number is because entering a number by itself is also how you tell WMC to change to that channel number. So if you wait too long before pushing the "30-second skip" button WMC will misinterpet your first number as a request to change to that channel, rather than the "number of 30-second skips" you really mean it to be.

So these are the only two WMC meanings for entering a number while watching a recording that I am familiar with. Yet you say there is apparently a third usage... to go DIRECTLY to "that number of minutes" in the program. I don't see how entering say "85" and sitting there waiting could be understood as a request to "go to minute 85 in the show", rather than "change to channel 85".

So... what's this third method for use of a typed/entered number?
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post #37 of 177 Old 01-22-2012, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

If they have 30 second skip it could be a huge draw for TiVo users. Very interesting technology.

Tivo has 30 second skip, I have it on both of mine. Has to be enabled with a special remote sequence, but works great.

That's not what will attract Tivo users, but the ability to have a whole-home DVR with extenders (and one Cablecard to rent) will.
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post #38 of 177 Old 01-22-2012, 07:56 AM
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Am I missing something here? On my Premier-XL remotes I just have to press the buttons (see attached picture) to skip fwd or back.
LL

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..
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post #39 of 177 Old 01-22-2012, 08:58 AM
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They aren't saying Tivo doesn't have 30 second skip, they are saying 30 second skip is a prerequisite for a Tivo user to move to another device. And I agree!
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post #40 of 177 Old 01-22-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Apples and oranges, I believe.
.....
It is this digital duplicate that DRM is concerned protecting. If you choose to take the S-video equivalent, or a high-quality analog re-compress, or tape it to your VHS VCR... the suits couldn't care less. Fine. Do it.
.....

They (content owners and cable companies) do care about analog outputs and that is why you will see (1) HD capable component video outputs disappearing from BD players, (2) the analog sunset industry agreement, (3) petitioning of the FCC to allow selectable output controls (ie turn off analog output on content by content basis), (3) the fact that Macrovision as a company even exists.

They have been working for over a decade to rid themselves of those pesky bulletproof, fully 1080p/60 capable outputs from the consumer marketplace so that they can sleep better at night and control your viewing experience.
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post #41 of 177 Old 02-18-2012, 03:26 AM
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Rather than overload with features, they should get the box out ASAP with basic recording features. Then add things like Netflix and support for phones and tablets later.

Forget about burning, the movie studios made sure Blu-Ray burning would be crippled. How else are they going to sell those $100 Blu-Ray box sets?

Just throw in USB 3 and eSata ports for easily adding storage and that's a good starting point.

Even at $1000, this box would beat the $1000 Tivo Premier Elite with Lifetime subscription. Assuming the extender is cheap and the wireless streaming to it is reliable.
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post #42 of 177 Old 02-18-2012, 06:51 AM
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It has USB and eSata but no wireless, because even N-class is not 100% reliable for HD streaming in all cases. That's why it has MoCA support instead, so you can use coax for the networking if you don't have cat5.
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post #43 of 177 Old 02-18-2012, 06:58 AM
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Hmm, so the Tivo Premiers don't network well by wireless?

I thought MoCA was a D* thing mostly. I don't know if I would trust the old coax in the walls of my house.
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post #44 of 177 Old 02-18-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Hmm, so the Tivo Premiers don't network well by wireless?

I thought MoCA was a D* thing mostly. I don't know if I would trust the old coax in the walls of my house.

Well it does carry all 200-300 cable channels if you are a cable subscriber, so not sure why you dont trust coax. And no-wireless is not suitable for reliable HDTV bitrate transport stream distribution.
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post #45 of 177 Old 02-18-2012, 11:57 AM
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MoCA is a great networking solution if you don't have cat5. Much more reliable than wifi or power line. Check out this thread if you are interested:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145636

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post #46 of 177 Old 03-08-2012, 05:34 PM
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Any more news on when these new Ceton units will be available for sale?
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post #47 of 177 Old 03-08-2012, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

I thought MoCA was a D* thing mostly. I don't know if I would trust the old coax in the walls of my house.

MoCA is a nifty solution if you don't have or can't run CAT5/6 to your destination.

I had that problem in my own home, where I wanted to plant a media center extender (Linksys DMA2100) in my family room where there was an existing old RG59 coax run for cable. The physical nature of the walls and ceilings was such that I simply could not pull an ethernet cable.

So I bought a pair of these Gefen "ethernet over coax" adapter boxes, attaching them to each end of the RG59 cable. These gizmos gave 4x100Mb/s wired Internet connectivity at the extender end, one of which was required and the other three are simply still available.

This "ethernet over coax" solution can support a 1000' coax, and 4x100Mb/s wired ethernet over that distance.

I understand that Ceton's Echo extender has a simple plug-in MoCA adapter module (don't know what's at the other end of the coax), which I'm guessing is effectively the same solution as my Gefen boxes (for the exact same problem and need) but actually hard-connected directly to the Echo.

Sounds like a great option, providing still more flexibility for the user.
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post #48 of 177 Old 03-08-2012, 06:27 PM
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Hmm, any gigabit ethernet support over coax?
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post #49 of 177 Old 03-09-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Hmm, any gigabit ethernet support over coax?

MoCA 2.0 gets close. No devices released yet though.

http://www.mocalliance.org/aboutus/faq.php

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post #50 of 177 Old 03-21-2012, 06:42 AM
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Does anyone know when this is coming out? Rumor is that TIVO is releasing an extender at retail late summer and I hope Ceton will be an option then too.
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post #51 of 177 Old 03-22-2012, 09:48 AM
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Will the Ceton record via an antenna for those of us still living in the pre-satellite stone age?
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post #52 of 177 Old 03-22-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim94117 View Post

Will the Ceton record via an antenna for those of us still living in the pre-satellite stone age?

Only supports Cable and no OTA support.
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post #53 of 177 Old 03-22-2012, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim94117 View Post

Will the Ceton record via an antenna for those of us still living in the pre-satellite stone age?

As was already answered, it's only intended for cable service:

Four QAM 64/256 tuners

No 8VSB tuners.

For this you can get a Silicon Dust HDHomeRun, which is based on 3 network-attached 8VSB tuners to feed WMC on your HTPC. This makes a higher demand on bandwith your home LAN network infrastructure than does the internal PCIe or external USB Ceton cablecard-enabled version.

Incidentally, Silicon Dust also has HDHomeRun Prime version, which is cablecard enabled like the Ceton but with 3 tuners. Same network-attached tuners feeding WMC on your HTPC.
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post #54 of 177 Old 03-23-2012, 04:20 AM
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FWIW, Ceton is very receptive to user input and some folks have requested specific USB tuner support for OTA, and/or an advanced mode backdoor so you can load your own drivers for external tuners. Don't think it will happen, but you never know.
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post #55 of 177 Old 03-23-2012, 05:04 AM
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Lucky you. Find any third party consumer CableCARD device and you can guarantee the people with the most problems have SDV and Cisco boxes ruining the experience.
You don't even need third party hardware really. Even TWC system's running Navigator in SDV deployed areas cause their own problems.

You can say that again.
SDV is a joke and unnecessary if they get rid of analog and let the digital version of those channels be 'in the clear'. Two problems solved.
Don't know about the Cisco part. Explain?


Looks as this is the Moxi replacement.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #56 of 177 Old 04-02-2012, 07:48 AM
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Also set for iOS and Android.


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post #57 of 177 Old 04-02-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post


Also set for iOS and Android.

One wonders if Ceton is building their Q system on top of Windows 8 Media Center since seemingly, they are enamored with the Metro interface. If so, we'll have to wait until Windows 8 is officially released or thereabouts before we can get our hands on the unit.
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post #58 of 177 Old 04-02-2012, 09:55 AM
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Operon; You didn't have to use the quote function to respond to the previous post especially one like that.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #59 of 177 Old 04-18-2012, 06:21 AM
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Well they're showing mobile apps. and maybe they will have beta trials for the extender soon.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/17/c...one-echo-beta/
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post #60 of 177 Old 04-30-2012, 01:22 AM
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Official product page up:

http://cetoncorp.com/products/ceton_q/

This head title needs changing too.


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