Ceton announces new 6-tuner outboard whole-house DVR system - Page 6 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #151 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
DSperber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA, USA
Posts: 5,455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

OK, if wireless isn't robust enough, that limits the appeal of the extender then. A lot of people aren't able to pull cables.
I thought the Tivo extender product (also a no-show like the Ceton Q) supported wireless.
The Ceton people, like me, are well aware of the relative instability and unreliability of "wireless" in the home. It may work well for some, but not so well for others.

So they built the Echo to only work on a "wired" network, and that's exactly what I have in my home so I have no problem. If that wouldn't work for you, then you're not going to be a customer.

I tried wireless to my front room from my back room and it didn't work. I couldn't pull an Ethernet cable to that room, but I did already have an old coax run to that room (for TV, when it used to be delivered from the cable company via coax). So I bought a "gizmo" (actually an "Ethernet over coax") pair of adapters (from Gefen originally, and then I bought a second pair from Netsys for a second coax run to do the same thing again) to convert that coax wire into an "Ethernet wire". So I now run my DMA2100 extender in that front room connected "wired", although it's actually an "Ethernet over coax" version of "wired"... though totally transparent to all the other hardware involved, both router and DMA2100.

So, if the fact that the Echo is NOT a wireless-capable device eliminates you as a potential customer, well I'm sure Ceton figured in that probability when they designed the product. But I'm sure they would much rather deliver a 100% reliable device to customers and 100% positive word-of-mouth, than to have potential flawed performance and resulting negative word-of-mouth.

That's just the way it is.
DSperber is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 01:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

OK, if wireless isn't robust enough, that limits the appeal of the extender then. A lot of people aren't able to pull cables.

I thought the Tivo extender product (also a no-show like the Ceton Q) supported wireless.
Powerline adapters could work well in this case. I have four of them spread around the house and have no trouble getting an HDTV feed across them.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #153 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 01:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xnappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Powerline adapters could work well in this case. I have four of them spread around the house and have no trouble getting an HDTV feed across them.

Or MoCA:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1145636/actiontec-mi424wr-a-cheap-moca-bridge-for-all

xnappo
xnappo is online now  
post #154 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 03:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wco81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 4,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 85
That's the other option I was thinking of MoCA. But there may be a lot of old coax in homes, not even RG6 quality.
wco81 is offline  
post #155 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 06:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Ceton Echo officially announced.
Available in November for US initially, $179.
Here's the email that was sent out to current Ceton users.

I presume it doesn't support HD audio, Extras access to Hulu Desktop and XBMC? When its biggest marketing bullet point is Eco-Friendly... I have my doubts I'll be picking one up. smile.gif Now if it does support whatever runs on the PC (within or called from WMC) and sold for $100 (or less) I'd probably end up with two.
Charles R is offline  
post #156 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
DSperber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA, USA
Posts: 5,455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

That's the other option I was thinking of MoCA. But there may be a lot of old coax in homes, not even RG6 quality.
A Windows Media Center extender is by definition "connected to the HTPC where Windows Media Center is running". And that connection must therefore be through an Ethernet connection, no doubt facilitated via a router and multiple Ethernet cable runs between the various boxes and the router.

A similar "whole-home" topography using MoCA is implemented with the Motorola DVR equipment, with the "server" (representing the HTPC for WMC) and "clients" (representing the "extenders") as satellites, interconnected with standard coax in the home instead of using Ethernet cabling.

However as I've described previously, if you have an old "coax run" in your house (RG6 or RG59 cable, either will work) you can convert that physical coax leg to an "Ethernet run" by using "ethernet over coax" adapters. I have done this TWICE in my house (where it was either impossible or undesirable to run a new Ethernet cable, or there already existed a coax run that was going unused).

One time I used Gefen adapters, but these are no longer made. These had the design where one was the "source" (nearer to the router) and the other was the "target" which actually had 4 Ethernet RJ-45 jacks on it (like a mini-router). So you could deliver 4x100 conceptual Ethernet legs through this pair of boxes. Four separate 100Mbps outputs at the "target" end, to feed up to four separate Ethernet-enabled devices at that end.

The second time I used Netsys adapters, and these ARE currently available and priced well. Either end can be used as source or target, and both boxes have two RJ-45 connectors.

In fact, BOTH of these "ethernet over coax" runs (with both Gefen and Netsys adapters) are active and in use in my house. In fact, the Netsys leg is a secondary offshot fom the 4x100 end of the Gefen leg. I had a coax run from the router area to the front family room, and converted that to 4x100 Ethernet using the Gefen adapters. One of the 4x100 outputs goes to my DMA2100 extender in the family room. A second of the 4x100 outputs goes to feed one input to a Netsys adapter in the same shelf. Then I have a second coax cable run from the family room to the kitchen (where it used to feed a SD kitchen TV via "channel 3" out of a DVR in the family room). So that coax leg from family room to the kitchen is now part of a Netsys ethernet-over-coax pair, to feed another DMA2100 I now have in the kitchen to support a new HDTV I put there to replace the old SD CRT kitchen TV.

So I have one DMA2100 in the family room, and a second DMA2100 in the kitchen, both being sourced through the two coax legs and four ethernet-over-coax adapters, via the router and the upstairs HTPC. I have a third DMA2100 in the bedroom, fed "legitimately" via Ethernet cable from the router (which I ran to the location, as it was feasible to do).


No need to think of MoCA here, even though it's standard 75ohm coax providing the connectivity. It's "ethernet over coax" to connect to the WMC extender, which is specifically the type of connection the Echo expects... Ethernet, to the HTPC where WMC runs.
DSperber is online now  
post #157 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 06:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wco81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 4,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Amazon has some Powerline adapter kits, for 200 Mbps connections. $60 for a Netgear kit. Speed may be 1/4 and I'm presuming that should be good enough for smooth HD video?
wco81 is offline  
post #158 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 06:54 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Amazon has some Powerline adapter kits, for 200 Mbps connections. $60 for a Netgear kit. Speed may be 1/4 and I'm presuming that should be good enough for smooth HD video?

Here's a link to the bandwidth several of my local channels use...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422535/windows-media-center-vs-tivo-premiere#post_22290109
Charles R is offline  
post #159 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 07:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
almostinsane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 24
It's pretty much a fact that unless you live in perfect conditions, you cannot stream HD (HD OTA >20mbps) over wireless (dual band N). BD rips that peak at 50 mbps? no way. You have to be wired. It has always been that way. The Ceton extender doesn't change that.
almostinsane is offline  
post #160 of 177 Old 10-11-2012, 10:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Amazon has some Powerline adapter kits, for 200 Mbps connections. $60 for a Netgear kit. Speed may be 1/4 and I'm presuming that should be good enough for smooth HD video?
As I noted above I have 4 powerline adapters spread around the house. Two are Netgear AV500's and the other two are Netgear AV200's and they all talk to each other. I have a Silicon Dust HD Homerun in the basement (where it has ready access to a split off the OTA antenna) connected to an AV200. My media-PC is on the second floor main network, connected through a switch to an AV500. I can easily record two HDTV streams from CBS and NBC, simultaneously, from the HD Homerun to the media-PC. The combined bandwidth of those two streams is over 30Mbps. So yes, in terms of the single HDTV stream the Ceton would be drawing, you should fully expect the PLA's to work in this application. Ethernet over coax is great -- IF -- you already have coax pulled between the two points. If not, PLA's are the next best thing and the fact that you can plug them around the house to form a network is pretty cool.

I also think it is worth the extra money to buy the AV500's over the AV200's.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #161 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 07:09 AM
QuadMersed in bass!
 
giomania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I have a Silicon Dust HD Homerun in the basement (where it has ready access to a split off the OTA antenna). I can easily record two HDTV streams from CBS and NBC, simultaneously, from the HD Homerun to the media-PC. The combined bandwidth of those two streams is over 30Mbps.

This answers a question I had about bandwidth requirements for an HD Homerun. Is the bandwidth load the same whether you are recording to the media PC, watching live TV on a PC, or watching a recorded program? In other words, do you get the full ATSC bandwidth (no transcoding) in any of the aforementioned scenarios?

Thanks.

Mark
giomania is offline  
post #162 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
DSperber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Marina Del Rey, CA, USA
Posts: 5,455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

This answers a question I had about bandwidth requirements for an HD Homerun. Is the bandwidth load the same whether you are recording to the media PC, watching live TV on a PC, or watching a recorded program? In other words, do you get the full ATSC bandwidth (no transcoding) in any of the aforementioned scenarios?
When a tuner in the HDHR is in use for either (a) watching TV live, or (b) recording a program, that means the tuner is connected to the HTPC and "in use". It thus needs bandwidth for that use, to connect from HDHR to the HTPC across your network through the router, using the leg to the router and a second leg to the HTPC... for each tuner being used.

In order to watch a previously recorded program (say through an extender to the attached HDTV) you need bandwidth from the HTPC (where WMC is running, and playing back that WTV program) to the router, and then bandwidth from the router to the extender/HDTV. For every program being played back on an extender, you need bandwidth to support it.

And of course if you want to watch a live program (fed from a tuner on the HDHR), you again need bandwidth form the HDHR tuner being used to the HTPC through the router, and then simultaneous bandwidth from the HTPC to the router and then router to the extender.

All of these bandwidth requirements are for the datastream (related to the bitrate of the channel being tuned), and it doesn't matter whether the stream is live or previously recorded... the bandwidth requirement is the same, because the bitrate/datastream is the same. The only thing which varies is how many "legs" are in use to/from the router, to/from each of the the HDHR tuners being used, to/from the extender, and to/from the HTPC, which add up to what you really need to be able to support simultaneously.
DSperber is online now  
post #163 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 07:27 AM
QuadMersed in bass!
 
giomania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

When a tuner in the HDHR is in use for either (a) watching TV live, or (b) recording a program, that means the tuner is connected to the HTPC and "in use". It thus needs bandwidth for that use, to connect from HDHR to the HTPC across your network through the router, using the leg to the router and a second leg to the HTPC... for each tuner being used.
In order to watch a previously recorded program (say through an extender to the attached HDTV) you need bandwidth from the HTPC (where WMC is running, and playing back that WTV program) to the router, and then bandwidth from the router to the extender/HDTV. For every program being played back on an extender, you need bandwidth to support it.
And of course if you want to watch a live program (fed from a tuner on the HDHR), you again need bandwidth form the HDHR tuner being used to the HTPC through the router, and then simultaneous bandwidth from the HTPC to the router and then router to the extender.
All of these bandwidth requirements are for the datastream (related to the bitrate of the channel being tuned), and it doesn't matter whether the stream is live or previously recorded... the bandwidth requirement is the same, because the bitrate/datastream is the same. The only thing which varies is how many "legs" are in use to/from the router, to/from each of the the HDHR tuners being used, to/from the extender, and to/from the HTPC, which add up to what you really need to be able to support simultaneously.

Thanks for the info.

Most of the use would be via my wired gigabit network, so I think it would be fine.

Mark
giomania is offline  
post #164 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 07:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
dbailey75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:

Moca's are good and should be able to handle HD 10-15MB/s from cable, but I had mixed results with full blown BD's, the problem with Moca, they are geared towards commercial use, I still haven't seen any Moca 2's released even though the standard was approved close to two years ago, which are suppose to double the speeds of Moca 1.1. And dlink and netgear are no longer offering there consumer models last I checked, so this could be hard to come by for the masses.

PSN: CAPTDANMAN
dbailey75 is offline  
post #165 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 07:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
dbailey75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Why can't they just use Win 7 embedded instead of waiting for Win 8?

yeah, I'm wondering the same question, embedded is not like the full OS release, its for OEMs/integrated systems providers, and for the most part the ROM,s are managed by the OEM, in this case Ceton, and your not buying a kit for each system you deploy, there's no COA sticker either if I recall, you basically keep track of your installation of embedded, and the oem pays MS a royalty for each unit sold.

For most companies in this line of business it would take them 1-2 years to develop, test, and start deploying a system with Win 8 embedded, which gives them roughly a year before MS comes out with Win 9 embedded, now that MS is on this 3 year release cycle, so i'm not convinced it's entirely an MS issue.

All I can say is that I'm a little disappointed, in the announcement, the only positive, is maybe they'll put resources on the 6 tuner PCIe card, and I second others who have mentioned a partnership with the XBMC team, that would be one great product right there, no MS, no problem. Erik from ceton mentioned a long time ago on the infinitv forum that they might be interested in working with XBMC/Plex or who ever and helping to fund the cablelabs certification.

took me forever to find this,

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336614/latest-ceton-infinitv-4-info-thread/2970#post_22011628

PSN: CAPTDANMAN
dbailey75 is offline  
post #166 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 08:33 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Most of the use would be via my wired gigabit network, so I think it would be fine.

On my gigabit network recording four shows at once the network load on the PC is roughly 6 per cent.
Charles R is offline  
post #167 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 09:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
xnappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

yeah, I'm wondering the same question, embedded is not like the full OS release, its for OEMs/integrated systems providers, and for the most part the ROM,s are managed by the OEM, in this case Ceton, and your not buying a kit for each system you deploy, there's no COA sticker either if I recall, you basically keep track of your installation of embedded, and the oem pays MS a royalty for each unit sold.

I could be wrong - but isn't Win7 embedded only Intel based? Perhaps Ceton was counting on a lower cost integrated ARM solution?

Just speculation on my part.

xnappo
xnappo is online now  
post #168 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 10:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
dbailey75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

I could be wrong - but isn't Win7 embedded only Intel based? Perhaps Ceton was counting on a lower cost integrated ARM solution?
Just speculation on my part.
xnappo

I know HP offers off the shelf thin clients solutions with Via, Amd, and intel processors all of which are offered with Win 7embedded or it's predecessor Win Standard embedded, Heck, XP embedded was still offered on some models up until the last 3-4 years. Wyse is another player that offers standard solutions, but as mentioned, OEM's can develop their own hardware spec and driver support if needed, and port the software to run, I'm sure there are some basic rules for windows hardware that must be addressed so your not completely reinventing the wheel.

PSN: CAPTDANMAN
dbailey75 is offline  
post #169 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 10:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
xnappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

I know HP offers off the shelf thin clients solutions with Via, Amd, and intel processors all of which are offered with Win 7embedded or it's predecessor Win Standard embedded, Heck, XP embedded was still offered on some models up until the last 3-4 years. Wyse is another player that offers standard solutions, but as mentioned, OEM's can develop their own hardware spec and driver support if needed, and port the software to run, I'm sure there are some basic rules for windows hardware that must be addressed so your not completely reinventing the wheel.

Well Via, Amd and Intel are all basically x86 solutions that need lots of supporting components , whereas there are ARM SOCs with everything on one chip to do video playback at 1080p at a very low cost.

xnappo
xnappo is online now  
post #170 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 11:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Frackville, PA
Posts: 825
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 30
I was going to go the WMC route until Microsoft announced that WMC will no longer be included with Windows 8 and only be available as an add on at an additional price. I figure if there is not enough of of people buying the add on Microsoft will end support for WMC which means that Microsoft will end the contract to Tribune Media Services for the guide data. Then those that still have Windows 7, Vista, and XP will lose the guide data also. So I do not think that anything related to WMC is going to be a viable solution in the coming future. So its back to Tivo or renting a STB from your provider.

"You lose it in here you're in a world of hurt"
Jed1 is offline  
post #171 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 12:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 10,258
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

So I do not think that anything related to WMC is going to be a viable solution in the coming future.

I might follow this logic if one has to invest any real amount of money into WMC. Worse case you throw away the $16 remote and sell off a few tuners (down the road). If you can't re-purpose the leftover PC I'm guessing it would be paid for by the time doomsday arrives. Based on your monthly rental fees, etc.
Charles R is offline  
post #172 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
dbailey75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Marietta, Georgia
Posts: 681
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

Well Via, Amd and Intel are all basically x86 solutions that need lots of supporting components , whereas there are ARM SOCs with everything on one chip to do video playback at 1080p at a very low cost.
xnappo

Xnappo, mabye i'm not following you here, but if your implying a possible hardware related issue as well, cost or lack of options, yeah, that makes senses too, don't want another boxee box debacale where they had to switch chips at the last minute from the tegra to the intel, changing the SDK's and then intel later drops support on the chip a year later, Ceton would need multi year commitments on the hardware and I guess third party software for the BD playback and what ever else they may be installing, MS already offers 10 years of support of their embedded products, so they would be good there.

From the MS site.
** 10 year product support is combination of 5 years mainstream and 5 years extended with the exception of the Windows Vista Ultimate for Embedded Systems and Windows 7 Ultimate for Embedded Systems products which provide 5 years of mainstream support only and no extended support.

MS is still touting XP embedded on the their site. yeah, I'm not buying that it's an issue with Win 8 embedded.

"Windows XP Pro for Embedded Systems will continue to be available through Microsoft Authorized Embedded Distributors through December 2016, and Technical Support will be available through April 2014."

PSN: CAPTDANMAN
dbailey75 is offline  
post #173 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 01:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xnappo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

Xnappo, mabye i'm not following you here, but if your implying a possible hardware related issue as well, cost or lack of options, yeah, that makes senses too

Yeah, that is exactly what I am saying. The cost of building an ARM-based Win8RT solution would be much less than a WIN7 embedded x86-based solution. Of course that is still just a guess - given the cost of tuners and hard drives I am not sure the difference would be enough to make Win7 embedded a non-starter.

xnappo
xnappo is online now  
post #174 of 177 Old 10-12-2012, 04:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
wco81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 4,558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 85
It's really kind of surprising that there isn't more competition in the DVR space. Of course you're going uphill against the cable and satellite cos. But the cable cos. distribute horrible DVRs with ridiculous monthly charges.

Tivo is kind of pricey too.

I know CableCard certification is prohibitive for small startups and the cable cos. generally try to make it difficult or they've sabotaged CableCard.

Really this segment is ripe for someone to take over. People spend a lot of money on DVRs and the user experience really hasn't improved much since Tivo and Replay TV came out with their first products, like over 10 years ago now?
wco81 is offline  
post #175 of 177 Old 10-13-2012, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 4,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 266
The problem is that people want the cableCo to take care of them and are willing to live with a craptacular DVR and a monthly rental. They just don't care enough about the DVRs that we want, so there is a limited market for a small player to come in and make money on a DVR that will likely cost at least $400.

It's kinda sad because people keep saying that the future is streaming everything so DVRs won't matter, but cableCos want to impose metered billing (and caps) which goes against that, and I don't want to be forced to watch commercials in streams anyway. I don't see myself getting rid of DVRs for a long time.
slowbiscuit is offline  
post #176 of 177 Old 10-13-2012, 09:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,453
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

The problem is that people want the cableCo to take care of them and are willing to live with a . . . monthly rental . . .
people keep saying that the future is streaming everything so DVRs won't matter, but cableCos want to impose metered billing (and caps) which goes against that, and I don't want to be forced to watch commercials in streams anyway.

In keeping with your statements above, one could also argue that the future for a good fraction of on-line streaming will still be through the cable companies and their boxes. Their DVR's are portals to both their cable content and their VOD streaming services. Streaming through their VOD services will never be counted against your Internet cap -- the price of their VOD offerings includes the "delivery fee"; the consumer has to deal with only one does-it-all-box and one interface that the cable co has set up for them and maintains. The deck is stacked in their favor and the average consumer has already shown they will keep putting money in the pot -- they would be fools to not play the winning hand they were dealt.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #177 of 177 Old 10-13-2012, 10:36 AM
QuadMersed in bass!
 
giomania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I have been thinking over my options, and realized I prefer "appliance" devices that just work, versus the potential time involved with setting up an HTPC: Time is a limited resource for me these days. For the DVR functionality, I can simply keep my Moxi, which is working fine as a whole-home solution for Cable TV, and the investment was paid off in January. The only thing in my setup I am not happy with is the media file access via a Netgear NeoTV 550. The NeoTV 550 works, with the exception of bitstream pass-through issues in my setup, but I yearn for a better interface. The Dune HD Smart D1 was on my radar, as it works with My Movies.
With the Echo now announced, I started thinking about replacing the NeoTV 550 in my equipment rack with an extender, so I can access My Movies. Then I remembered I have an Xbox 360S sitting in my rack: Voila, instant extender! When I got the Xbox 360S, I had set it up as an extender just to test it out, but never used it. At the time, the Xbox controllers did not work in my family room, and I did not realize that IR control was possible. With the Echo announcement, the Xbox 360S as an extender came to mind, and I decided to search if IR control was possible. It turns out it is possible, and they even sell an IR remote control for $30. http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Media-Infrared-Remote-Control/dp/B0084VBIH6 All I have to do is place an IR flasher on the IR receiver on the Xbox 360S.
So, I have a possible low-cost implemenation option for my desire to access the My Movies interface. I can use the Xbox 360S to test and see if this works for me, and if it does, I can buy the remote control. We will see how the testing goes.
Comments are most welcome.
Mark

Update: I performed the experiment last night, and I was not able watch the movies, which I have stored as full rips in Video TS folders, which is a file type not supported by Media Center Extender's (MCE's). There is an option for My Movies to transcode them on the fly so this works with the extender, but it uses up the PC resources, which does not appeal to me. I don't want to re-rip all my movie collection, so, the MCE route will not work, given my particular setup and needs. So, I guess I am back to the Dune Smart HD D1 option, as it can play Video TS files with menu support, and can take advantage of the My Movies metadata. Again, I am looking for appliance-like reliability and ease of use, due to restrictions on my time, which means I will have to pay for it by purchasing a Dune.

As always, comments welcome.

Mark
giomania is offline  
Reply HDTV Recorders

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off