ePVision PHD-VRX & VRX2 Owners Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I understand that it could of been damaged in shipping though I content it really shouldn't of been unless it was really rough handled.
Let me ask this. The case was supported by cardboard 'end' within the retail box, then placed in a shipping box. The case and drive were 'floating' with space around it. A hard 'hit' should of been absorbed by the 'filler' pieces at each end of the case, shouldn't it (within reason?

Yes. I can tell you that, as an example, a 250G Scorpio Blue (a fairly typical 5400 RPM Western Digital 2.5" drive), when docked (as it would be in shipment), is spec'ed to withstand 1,000G's of impact deceleration in a 2 mS interval. What do you think? (Sorry I didn't look up Toshiba, but I don't recall which model you have. i just have familiarity with WD, because most I've bought recently have been from them.) And no, that's not a typo. There are three zeroes there.

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I'm not trying to skirt the blame as they seem to be, but just to understand how is that different than a Laptop being shipped with a HDD installed? I admit it probably would of been better if the drive was removed, but until I actually see it, assuming I will, I won't know for sure

Well, as long as the drive didn't break loose (which it obviously didn't), I'd guess you'd be OK 95% of the time.

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since we can't trust anything that is said from them anymore.

and that is a real problem.

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Quote:
Allen, "the problem is when you start recording show about 1 or 2 hours, high spinning head, high speed motor and unbalanced (not horizontally) internal disc inside HDD gradually cause mechanical failure."
I couldn't figure that out either along with half of what he has replied.. confused.gif

Like I said, nonsense.

- Tim
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post #392 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

VideoGrabber;
F1 in the lower left corner is the fuse. I can't quite make the rating out other than it is 250v @ x.15A I think.

Yep, I know. smile.gif That's precisely all I could glean from it as well. It's the 'x' that's important. Hopefully it's a 0. I'm not familiar with that form-factor, but it should be a fast-blow part, with auto-restore.

A device that pulls 25W when running, and maybe 30-35W when powering up with a HDD attached, should in no way ever cause a home breaker to trip, unless you are right on the ragged edge already.

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post #393 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DB100 View Post

One worry I have is that if they decide to listen to some of the comments here and make changes to the interface, they DON'T DROP THE POSITIVE THINGS!

That is always a risk you run. frown.gif It may be helpful to sprinkle a few good things about them in our comments, while we're busily making lists of everything that's wrong with them. wink.gif

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The Favorites utility is really nice. In another post I described how it works. But there's something else. You can go into the Menu/Master List and EDIT THE NAME OF EACH CHANNEL! That's wonderful. My TVIX device shows channel 3 as "3". Other devices use the call sign, so 3 is "3 WLOS". Well, WLOS means nothing to me. I want to see "3 ABC", that means something to me. So I can go into the Master List and edit it so it appears exactly how I want it to appear. When you combine this edit ability with the Favorites listing, you have the perfect way to find the channel you want to view. PLEASE DON'T CHANGE THIS!

Sounds very good. And I definitely agree that the affiliate information is much more valuable than the station call letters.

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I also like the Status checkbox for pending recordings. On my PalDVR, if you want to skip a recording you have to delete it and reenter it after it airs.

That's annoying, to be sure. frown.gif

[I was planning on buying a unit, AFTER they fixed the Weekly omission. While far from ideal in so many ways, since DB confirmed the .mpg files are VRD compatible, that's all I'd really need to minimally use it as a schedule-based acquisition device, and pull the files off to my PC. But after I see how they treated Bruce, I'm not sure I'm willing to patronize them at all.]

- Tim
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post #394 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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My guess is this development team is in over their heads and the frustration level is rising by the minute. ........They are very likely getting pressure from the home office over the extended delay of the initial launch and expectations are to make it right ASAP, or else!
I have already surmised this some time ago.
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My overall impression of the insulting level of the email is first the inability to grasp the cultural differences and the rising level of frustration of being responsible for a product that is so far off target (at least to an American market).
Which is why the vast majority of these Asians imports are short lived.
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That being said, the product should deliver on what it is advertised to be, a DVR/Media player.
DVR first, everything else second.
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They apparently are following the forum updates and seeing daily how far short of a full deck of cards this product is.
I don't believe they are following it that close. I believe all of this is overwhelming to them possibly due to the language barrier.
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One has to wonder why ePVision asked for beta testers at all, since they clearly don't want to hear what you (or anyone else) have to say.
No one asked, I offered. Initially they listened, but due to the extreme number of problems, my input was dismissed due to it "being only my opinion" as I was told over the phone by Allen.
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just because it turned out that they had a buried functionality that does allow Manual recordings, does not excuse the fact that it is NOT AVAILABLE at a point where you would expect to find it (which is what you reported). Perhaps if they had an actual User Manual for their "product", which is expected of every other commercial product ever released, that might have been avoided.
But, I was suppose to been "clairvoyant" wasn't I?? DVR's are all the same according to a TWC "tech". wink.gif
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other comments that Allen made make me wonder whether they whole thing is a crock, meant to shift the blame for their deficiencies on to you.
Gee, do you think? It's obviously all my fault. I should be fired.
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you have obviously spent a large amount of your own time, not only testing and providing feedback to them, but also in evaluating and writing up information on the product, which can only be helpful to them. And yet, he emphasizes not once, but twice, just how disappointed his 'engineers' are in you, and how upset they are?
Realizing I wasn't getting anywhere with Allen, I asked more than once to get in contact with some of their engineers, but was refused stating they don't get involved with consumers (not a quote). I offered, they refused. And they are disappointed?
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First and foremost, their main priority should have been to respond to his concerns, and find an explanation for why his experiences differed from theirs. Instead, they preferred to cast the blame on him, and dismiss his concerns completely.
I thought it was a nice feature to have, but the fact it became such a roadblock when it shouldn't, since I couldn't even get basic questions answered.
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The group here of technically knowledgeable users offering their suggestions and criticisms is also a very valuable resource for ePVision, though it sounds as if they are unaware of that fact.
I passed on the offers of others here to volunteer their time to help, but never got a reply.

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post #395 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 06:43 AM
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I've let this pass twice now, and need to respond to it.

Allen's e-mail to Bruce claimed:

Quote:
"the problem is when you start recording show about 1 or 2 hours, high spinning head, high speed motor and unbalanced (not horizontally) internal disc inside HDD gradually cause mechanical failure."

Re: the "high spinning head", There is no such thing in a HDD. I.e., the heads do not spin. There are on an actuator arm, attached to a servo motor. It doesn't spin either, but moves precisely over a small arc. (Really small on laptop drive.)

And as far as the "high speed motor", every HDD ever made has a high-speed motor.

Lastly, the "unbalanced internal disc inside HDD" makes no sense at all. That's not something that Bruce or any user has any control over. Either the disc inside the HDD is balanced by the manufacturer (it is), or it's not. So the 'mechanical failure' he tried to pin on Bruce was a total fabrication, and makes him look very foolish for even suggesting it in the first place.

His only defense at this point would be, "No, no, that's not what I meant."

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post #396 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Without going to far off topic, regarding the formatting problem and the possible damage of the hard drive due to me not removing it from the chassis, VideoGrabber started to discuss this in a PM and I though it would make more sense to discuss it here.

The reason I supplied the info about ext2 in the first 10 posts is first off it is somewhat foreign to me. I was aware of it and ext3, but since I never had any experience with Linux or anything other than a Windows based PC, I admit my ignorance with this. The other reason was to educate others that might be in the same shoes as I was.
Other than a different format, since as stated many times, there was no "manual" other than a quick start guide (big deal). The process of using the utility was straightforward (or should of been). How many ways can you do this? Really only one. Connect drive, go into menu, start process. Kinda hard to make a mistake one would think.

BUT, I couldn't not and still could not get any specifics on how the initial state of the HDD should be;
1. Initialized or uninitialized or doesn't matter?
2. Formatted or not formatted or doesn't matter?
If formatted, which format? FAT32 or NTFS or doesn't matter?
3. How about the interface? IDE or SATA or doesn't matter?
4. And the enclosure interface? Any specific USB enclosure?

Guess I'm not clairvoyant enough again. wink.gif

Unfortunately, I don't have the e-mail that was sent, finally with some type of response. Allen did admit of some problems, but as usual it wasn't clear what he was talking about. Something about the DVR has to be powered down then back up to format. Of course, that didn't make any sense. The impression I had was he did admit to a problem, but always claimed they were able to format the drives they had.

The 1st try was with a 3.5" 1TB drive (new) that was right out of the box. After 26 hours (not knowing how long this would take) I gave up. The drive never formatted. I then used easeUS to format the drive NTFS with no issue and no errors. I made recordings and played them back in my PC specifically to see if indeed it would work and it did. After testing a NTFS drive and found as already stated by Allen, the throughput won't allow dual recordings, I re-formatted the drive using easeUS again to ext2. No problems doing dual recordings as I stated in the first set of posts in the thread.

This smaller 640GB Toshiba 2.5" drive was refurbished and was purchased after the 1st drive specifically to be placed inside the DVR. I sent the pics of the install as i posted here to Allen and he was impressed and complimented me on the job. He did not take any exception to the three double stick pieces of tape that was use, but now has changed his tune.;
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we found you carelessly put some tapes stick HDD to bottom of PHD-VRX case. However, the tape doesn’t cover 100% the area of USB HDD enclosure bottom.
Why was the enclosure removed? I already showed the photo of the mounting, they didn't "discover" anything they didn't already should of known. That tells me they are selectively reading bits and pieces of this thead and my e-mails, no doubt overwhelmed with everything.

To respond to VideoGrabber's comments;
Quote:
I still would not recommend shipping one isolated by nothing more than double-sided sticky-tape, to a metal chassis. If the package was dropped from a height of several feet at any point by the carrier, or slid rapidly along a conveyor and came to an abrupt halt, it is entirely possible that the drive would not survive.
I did consider removing the drive first, but didn't thinking, how would that be different than a Laptop with a HDD installed? After all, this is a 2.5" Laptop drive and Laptops surely take beatings. The fact the bottom of the enclosure was against the chassis with bubble wrap encompassing the majority of the drive. Unless the drive or enclosure actually dislodged, I didn't think it would be a problem, especially with a smaller, lighter HDD.

Until I get this back, assuming I do, I won't know fore sure and will post back what I find.

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post #397 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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My review of the PHD-VRX as a HD-DVR was for consumers to read. When I have sent my emails to EpVision directly I clearly only mention what I feel is the major and minor issues with the product.
I would be willing to bet, you are probably on the same list as I mas, or will soon be. wink.gif

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post #398 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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So what? And, who cares? I have expensive computers that don't support any eSata, much less eSata III. And who needs 5Gb USB3 bandwidth on their DVR drives? You do realize that the absolute maximum bandwidth these drives will ever experience would be 58 Mb/sec, while recording 2 full ATSC channels, and playing back a 3rd. With multicasting, I'm not sure you'll ever even find a full ATSC carrier allocated to one channel. If you do, then congrats, because you are very lucky to be in a select minority. The most I ever see here is ~15 Mb/sec. 3 of those would be 45 Mb/s. What possible value would 5,000 Mb/s have for any of us on the DVR side? None whatsoever.
Speed aside, how about the fact eSATA drives wouldn't need additional drivers and the associated annoyances with USB buses to interface with a PC? IOW's a more direct interface to the motherboard. wink.gif
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IMHO, that utility is not a core function of a DVR. In fact, if they removed it completely, I'd never miss it.
Wait, that's my line.
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Bruce reported being able to record one HD channel on an NTFS drive successfully.
It seems to be 'on the cliff', I did see a few 'glitches' with only one tuner recording on playback. Playback didn't seem to affect recording, something I asked here in the post about recording, but didn't get any response from anyone.
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This USB Disk format utility will not work with hard drives that are unformatted.
But, I couldn't get it to work if they were formatted either.

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post #399 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

we have been told that ePVision is reading our Forum discussions, and I was concerned that they might be interpreting them somewhat differently. To our detriment.

Which begs one to ponder why they are not participating in the forum and fielding questions directly.
I can understand the language barrier thing, but give me a break. I would really be curious to see their faculty structuring. eek.gif
Is this product not designed for North American consumers? Do you mean to tell me you would invest this much time and effort in a product and not have strategic "Americanised" individuals in the stream to make sure it works as expected?

(Shaking my head because there is no emoticon for that) mad.gif
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post #400 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

.... the "unbalanced internal disc inside HDD" makes no sense at all . . .

I don't want to take the position of defending Allen, but from the time I first saw the "letter" I've interpreted his use of the word "unbalanced" to maybe mean "not level", as in not horizontal or not vertical. Like "tilted". I think that comment could be a language barrier thing. I can't believe that he would think that a drive with an unevenly weighted platter would not destroy itself in short order. But then I don't personally believe that a drive would be affected by an "out of level" mounting, or even by mounting at a 45 degree angle . . .

I believe it's time to Overthrow VerticalScope..
and Bring Back Huddler!

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .

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post #401 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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A device that pulls 25W when running, and maybe 30-35W when powering up with a HDD attached, should in no way ever cause a home breaker to trip, unless you are right on the ragged edge already.
The DVR uses around 17-18 watts w/o the drive attached. It's 22 watts with the Toshiba drive. wink.gif
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Which begs one to ponder why they are not participating in the forum and fielding questions directly.
Why would they? They wouldn't even talk to me in private.
How many companies really do other than some PR type with the typical 'canned' responses.

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post #402 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by morc258 View Post

Which begs one to ponder why they are not participating in the forum and fielding questions directly.
I can understand the language barrier thing, but give me a break. I would really be curious to see their faculty structuring. eek.gif
Is this product not designed for North American consumers? Do you mean to tell me you would invest this much time and effort in a product and not have strategic "Americanised" individuals in the stream to make sure it works as expected?
(Shaking my head because there is no emoticon for that) mad.gif
Your questions have no logical (or nice) answers. But I hope I am wrong if just for the sake of those who have purchased the product.
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post #403 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post


I don't want to take the position of defending Allen, but from the time I first saw the "letter" I've interpreted his use of the word "unbalanced" to maybe mean "not level", as in not horizontal or not vertical. Like "tilted". I think that comment could be a language barrier thing. I can't believe that he would think that a drive with an unevenly weighted platter would not destroy itself in short order. But then I don't personally believe that a drive would be affected by an "out of level" mounting, or even by mounting at a 45 degree angle . .

 

See this Seagate note on orientation.


PHILIPS HD DVRs | *MAG/PHILIPS SD DVDRs* | DVDR/DVR COMPARISONS | POST-DVDR OPTIONS
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post #404 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I selected a number of members who had the most participation in this thread to PM them a e-mail I received fro Allen Chung of ePVision. Due to the nature of the mail, I felt it best to do this "privately".
The consensus was to make it public. I also asked for those members who posted messages to C&P what they sent here so all could see at their option (not mine).]

My 2¢
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Well, a bit of the tone comes from the language barrier. That said, if I was ePvision I wouldn't have used those words. Frankly, I find it a bit surprising, in this day of enlightened customer service. (I work IT, and our company buys a lot of HP products. I never get that kind of vibe from their tech support. In fact, I don't get that tone from anybody I deal with.)

I don't know what kind of disclosure statement you have with ePvision, so I don't know what you can state publicly, but I'd feel like calling them out on this (the tone, anyway.) Of course, I don't know what your previous conversations were like.

As to the technical merits of the letter, perhaps the drive got jarred loose during shipment? I'd try to reproduce the problem (with pictures and screen captures, if possible) when you get the unit back. If it still doesn't work I'd check with them one more time, then go viral.

Good luck and thanks for fighting the fight for us.

-Marc
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post #405 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Your questions have no logical (or nice) answers.
Joe, sorry to disagree, but it made a lot of sense to me and was "nice". Very nice I will add. wink.gif

wajo;
You have been noticeable absent. frown.gif

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post #406 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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The only logical idea I can think of regarding the comments that were made about the HDD would be if the enclosure was 'twisted' somehow. But how would a HDD be skewed? If so, it would be toast, wouldn't it?

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post #407 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Quote:
Your questions have no logical (or nice) answers.
Joe, sorry to disagree, but it made a lot of sense to me and was "nice". Very nice I will add. wink.gif
wajo;
You have been noticeable absent. frown.gif

You were very nice. I just couldn't thing of a nice way to answer your questions. I feel, after looking for a better DVR, that off-shore products are never tested by average consumers. videobruce was the first beta tester I ever heard of, but his feedback is not what EP wanted to hear. So they blame him. Everyday I lose hope for a box that will record HD/5.1 (like OTA) and get more frustrated.

When CM built the CM7400 I thought a company based in AZ should have a good idea of the NA market. I worry that Amazon has stopped selling the product. The price point was always too high for Walmart even though it should be good with Walmart's Vudu.

Your questions are very valid, but without saying bad things I can't speculate on what the f they were thinking. If they were thinking. I'm sorry you took my response the wrong way.

I think this post was meant for morc258. Sorry.
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post #408 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I understood your post was meant for morc258, I just responded to that quote to morc258's post.
Thanks for the rest though. smile.gif
No one is more disappointed than I as I have felt starting two years ago (probably mostly hoping) that this might be an answer as you stated.

Seems to be a lot of "disappointment" in this thread. wink.gif

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post #409 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 09:49 AM
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post #410 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 09:51 AM
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When connected to cable and doing a manual recording, both my TVIX and PHD give the resulting file a name constructed with date and time. Years ago when I used a Panisonic recorder, it let you type in a name when you set a manual recording - so much better, especially with repeating pgms (weekly).
This may have been already mentioned.
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post #411 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DB100 View Post

When connected to cable and doing a manual recording, both my TVIX and PHD give the resulting file a name constructed with date and time. Years ago when I used a Panisonic recorder, it let you type in a name when you set a manual recording - so much better, especially with repeating pgms (weekly).
This may have been already mentioned.

And if you record the same program at the same time, you get two different file names. I like Panasonic. I would have bought a newer one, but the EZ28 would not record my QAM digital cable signal.
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post #412 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 10:23 AM
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Joe:
Please help me here. What is "record the same program at the same time"? You have each tuner record the same program? There's a name for guy's like you. You're a BELT AND SUSPENDERS guy, right? biggrin.gif
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post #413 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

I don't want to take the position of defending Allen,

No, please do. It's a thankless job, but somebody has to do it. smile.gif I think Bruce has resigned from that position.

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but from the time I first saw the "letter" I've interpreted his use of the word "unbalanced" to maybe mean "not level", as in not horizontal or not vertical. Like "tilted". I think that comment could be a language barrier thing.

It seems like it would have to be. But the drive was mounted perfectly level with the base of the chassis of the DVR. If that's not level, then it's because the feet on the DVR are uneven (and it wobbles), or they placed it on some non-level surface themselves. Doh.

Or are they possibly suggesting that the mounting tape wasn't completely uniform, and thus the drive was a fraction of a millimeter higher at one point than another? If so, then I can guarantee that would make absolutely no difference at all. And the drive would certainly not self-destruct as a result.

- Tim
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post #414 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DB100 View Post

Joe:
Please help me here. What is "record the same program at the same time"? You have each tuner record the same program? There's a name for guy's like you. You're a BELT AND SUSPENDERS guy, right? biggrin.gif

You said that two devices record manually. I meant if you set each device is set to record the same program, the file names will be quite different yet contain the same information.

Last night I lost Eureka on my Tivo since the HD cable went out. I could have still recorded it in SD. I frequently make duplicates. My cable sucks.
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post #415 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DB100 View Post

What is "record the same program at the same time"? You have each tuner record the same program? There's a name for guy's like you. You're a BELT AND SUSPENDERS guy, right? biggrin.gif

I've done it more than once. I'll record the same program at the same time from CBS3 and CBS22. Why? Because CBS3 is more reliable (less likely to suffer from atmospheric interference), yet more likely to plaster the screen with weather maps ("It's hot today". No sh!t, Dick Tracy), or scrolling banners, or anything else they can think of putting on video overlays to destroy the program I tuned in to see. CBS22 very rarely has those "infestation" issues, but they're a lot farther away. So I shoot for both, and cross my fingers that one will be good. I have dual-market reception set up for every network. For a couple, I have 3 markets.

- Tim
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post #416 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post

.... Or are they possibly suggesting that the mounting tape wasn't completely uniform, and thus the drive was a fraction of a millimeter higher at one point than another? . . .


Well after having another look, we can clearly see that the Defendant (VideoBruce) had two pieces of foam tape at one end of the drive, but only ONE piece of foam tape at the other end of the drive. This is indisputable evidence that the drive was in fact unbalanced... biggrin.gif

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and Bring Back Huddler!

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .

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post #417 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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NuFootballTim;
Beautiful. Thats' almost as good as the "I want to believe" poster.

But, also notice the three pieces of 'tape' were not the exact same size with one slightly torn. eek.gif
Actually what happened was accounting told me to cut costs and I was told four pieces of tape were too many.
They also wanted to stop the use of unnecessary tools so my scissors were taken away.

.
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Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
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post #418 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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The two were on the end with the connector, the other end I wanted the option to 'lift' the enclosure away from the case if necessary and since this was 3M double stick tape, I wanted to be sure it didn't stick that well that I couldn't remove the enclosure w/o damaging it. (Can't beat 3M tape, electrical or otherwise).

(But don't tell them I used the more expensive stuff, I might get demoted to sales)

.
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post #419 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Well after having another look, we can clearly see that the Defendant (VideoBruce) had two pieces of foam tape at one end of the drive, but only ONE piece of foam tape at the other end of the drive. This is indisputable evidence that the drive was in fact unbalanced... biggrin.gif

That's good, WS, really good. I had thought about Bruce's "tripod" mounting method, but what Allen seemed to be saying was that there should have been sticky tape under the entire HDD enclosure! ("the tape doesn’t cover 100% the area of USB HDD enclosure bottom"). Of course the fact that doing so was not only unnecessary, but would have made it virtually impossible to ever remove the plastic drive enclosure after that, seems to be beyond his ability to grasp.

His failure to do so resulted in "in the end you damaged your own HDD because your carelessness" because "we found you carelessly put some tapes stick HDD to bottom of PHD-VRX case".

- Tim
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post #420 of 2448 Old 07-03-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

They also wanted to stop the use of unnecessary tools so my scissors were taken away.

I heard that was because they caught you running with them again. tongue.gif

- Tim
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