HDTV DVR Comparision - Consumer owned units - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Looked at chart comparing Tivo, Moxi, etc. and only Tivo and Moxi seem to support a TVGOS guide working off a cable card. Does this actually work via cable company alone? I have a 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR which I love for sports because it allows me to set advance and rewind time (at push of 1 button) to either 5, 10, 15, or 30 seconds so I can easily navigate between pitches for BB or snaps for football. Do either the Tivo or Moxi have similar functionality? My Sony has real issues with maintaining TVGOS absent use of OTA and I'm limited to cable so may need to find a replacement but don't want to give up the great advance/rewind one touch feature.

Thx!
HonestLeeD is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-13-2012, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Any thoughts on this topic are really appreciated!
HonestLeeD is offline  
Old 07-13-2012, 03:02 PM
Member
 
SeattleSuburbia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Now in Chicagoland
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Moxi is dead as a consumer owned product. mad.gif
SeattleSuburbia is offline  
Old 07-13-2012, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleSuburbia View Post

Moxi is dead as a consumer owned product. mad.gif

Why? Lack of reliability?
HonestLeeD is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
demonfoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Why? Lack of reliability?

No, because Arris, the company that bought out Digeo (the company that originally made the Moxi), killed the product line. They're literally not making them anymore. The Moxi never used TVGoS for guide data.

Also, TiVo does not, and never has, used TVGoS as a guide data source. You have to connect your TiVo to a broadband Internet connection, or a phone line for models before the Premiere, to get TiVo's guide service (and pay monthly, annually, or as a lump-sum for its guide service).

There are DVRs (the CM7000/PalDVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250/500, and others) that use TVGoS, but Rovi seems to care less and less about keeping TVGoS actually working. The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.
demonfoo is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

No, because Arris, the company that bought out Digeo (the company that originally made the Moxi), killed the product line. They're literally not making them anymore. The Moxi never used TVGoS for guide data.
Also, TiVo does not, and never has, used TVGoS as a guide data source. You have to connect your TiVo to a broadband Internet connection, or a phone line for models before the Premiere, to get TiVo's guide service (and pay monthly, annually, or as a lump-sum for its guide service).
There are DVRs (the CM7000/PalDVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250/500, and others) that use TVGoS, but Rovi seems to care less and less about keeping TVGoS actually working. The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.

Understand that Moxi is no longer made, but neither is my 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR, so what's problem with buying a used Moxi? Is it that it is as equally unreliable in the "new all digital" cable (in my case Comcast) world. All I want is a non-fee/month DVR that I can control advance and rewind time in 5 second increments, e.g., 1 click for 15 sec fwd and 1 click for 5 sec back, ala my Sony HDD DHG250 DVR. IF a Moxi could do that, and reliably obtain ;programming data from a cable feed, I'd consider switching to that from my Sony unit.

Thx.
HonestLeeD is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

No, because Arris, the company that bought out Digeo (the company that originally made the Moxi), killed the product line. They're literally not making them anymore. The Moxi never used TVGoS for guide data.
Also, TiVo does not, and never has, used TVGoS as a guide data source. You have to connect your TiVo to a broadband Internet connection, or a phone line for models before the Premiere, to get TiVo's guide service (and pay monthly, annually, or as a lump-sum for its guide service).
There are DVRs (the CM7000/PalDVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250/500, and others) that use TVGoS, but Rovi seems to care less and less about keeping TVGoS actually working. The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.

p.s. I also agree with your comments re: Rovi's lack of interest in consumer as I've left several messages, and stayed on hold for hours (literally) trying to get one of their engineers on the phone all to no avail as all I want to do is nail the source of my issues, i.e., Sony hardware or software/Rovi/or Comcast.
HonestLeeD is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 03:39 PM
Thread Ender
 
WS65711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Covington, LA OTA & Charter CableCard
Posts: 4,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 78
The TiVo Premier XL has one-button skip forward for 30-seconds, back for 8-seconds. Neither is user adjustable. Other models of TiVo may be different, I don't know.
The TiVo uses it's own program Listings obtained over the internet or telephone connection, as someone else indicated.
Any device that use TVGOS over-the-air or via Cable is going to be subject to all the same potential problems as the Sony DHG-HDDxxx.

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .
WS65711 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

The TiVo Premier XL has one-button skip forward for 30-seconds, back for 8-seconds. Neither is user adjustable. Other models of TiVo may be different, I don't know.
The TiVo uses it's own program Listings obtained over the internet or telephone connection, as someone else indicated.
Any device that use TVGOS over-the-air or via Cable is going to be subject to all the same potential problems as the Sony DHG-HDDxxx.

Thx, and the other issue w/TIVO is that it charges a monthly fee making it from my perspective no better than the cable co offerings; just wish I could tell whether it's the DHG/Comcast/or Rovi that's left me without a guide since Memorial day on all 3 of my units.

p.s. I'm believing it's either Comcast (who went all digital in my area Mem day) or Rovi, and while perhaps they've since restarted transmission I've not yet figured out which group of steps to take to restart service for fear of wiping out my channel grid (allowing recording albeit only by my figuring out difference between actual and incorrect DHG clock)
HonestLeeD is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 04:28 PM
Thread Ender
 
WS65711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Covington, LA OTA & Charter CableCard
Posts: 4,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Your hunch that it's Comcast is probably correct. cool.gif

My three TiVo's cost me around $700 each with the Lifetime service. My three Sony's cost me an average of about $500 each. With the TiVo's I can record a program on one machine and watch it on another over the network. We do that quite often. smile.gif

The link below is to the spreadsheet I developed a while back to convert current time to "SonyTime" and vice-versa. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Is it this simple, or am I missing something?

http://av-pix.com/2011/DHG-SonyTime.xls

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .
WS65711 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
HonestLeeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Skillman, NJ
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Your hunch that it's Comcast is probably correct. cool.gif
My three TiVo's cost me around $700 each with the Lifetime service. My three Sony's cost me an average of about $500 each. With the TiVo's I can record a program on one machine and watch it on another over the network. We do that quite often. smile.gif
The link below is to the spreadsheet I developed a while back to convert current time to "SonyTime" and vice-versa. wink.gif

Thx for sharing that nifty calculator! Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the TIVO units do not allow for advance and replay adjustment like the Sony increments I like (allows me to watch NFL snap by snap, or MLB pitch by pitch).
HonestLeeD is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 04:51 PM
Thread Ender
 
WS65711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Covington, LA OTA & Charter CableCard
Posts: 4,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Thx for sharing that nifty calculator! Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the TIVO units do not allow for advance and replay adjustment like the Sony increments I like (allows me to watch NFL snap by snap, or MLB pitch by pitch).

Mine (Premier XL's) don't have an adjustable increment. It's fixed at 30 seconds forward, 8 seconds back. Other TiVo models may be different, I dunno. I used to keep my Sonys set at 30 seconds forward and 5 seconds back, so it was fairly easy for me to adjust to the +30 -8 arrangement.

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..

It's a shame that in the end TCU's playoff chances all came down to this . . .
WS65711 is offline  
Old 07-15-2012, 06:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
demonfoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Understand that Moxi is no longer made, but neither is my 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR, so what's problem with buying a used Moxi? Is it that it is as equally unreliable in the "new all digital" cable (in my case Comcast) world.

No, they only have digital tuners. However, Arris has already made one pass at ending the Moxi guide service (they claimed that it was an "error", but I highly doubt that). I'd suspect in a year or two, they'll try again. If there's not enough outcry when it happens, every consumer-owned Moxi is instantly a brick.
Quote:
All I want is a non-fee/month DVR that I can control advance and rewind time in 5 second increments, e.g., 1 click for 15 sec fwd and 1 click for 5 sec back, ala my Sony HDD DHG250 DVR. IF a Moxi could do that, and reliably obtain ;programming data from a cable feed, I'd consider switching to that from my Sony unit.
Thx.

Well, it's reliable for now - until whenever Arris decides they're tired of providing the service for "free" ("free" is in quotes, because one of the selling points when they were still being made was that "unlike with TiVo, you don't have to pay for guide service for the life of the unit, it's paid for up front!" - the problem with that being since they're not getting a continuing revenue stream, they see no fiduciary interest in continuing to provide it). Dunno if the Moxi provides adjustable skip-forward and -back times, but I don't believe that's the case.
demonfoo is offline  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:31 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,458
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
The thread for the DHG-HDD250/500 shows the owners of them are in a constant struggle to get and keep guide data on their units, due to one problem or another with their local TVGoS feeds.
Of the thousands that were sold, the handful of members that are having problems are a very small percentage.
No difference than issues with TV's. The problems always comes out. Why post when you don't have a problem? wink.gif
Quote:
but neither is my 10 year old Sony HDD DHG250 DVR,
That Sony came out in 2005. Lets' not make it older than it is.
Quote:
control advance and rewind time in 5 second increments, e.g., 1 click for 15 sec fwd and 1 click for 5 sec back
You do that through a commerical break? Your finger and the associated button must really be in bad shape by now. eek.gif

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is offline  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:38 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,458
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Is the Moxi like the Sony; no Guide data, no recording or is there a manual option like there should be?

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is offline  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
demonfoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Is the Moxi like the Sony; no Guide data, no recording or is there a manual option like there should be?

Yes, that's my understanding of the situation. Without the guide service, the box is basically useless. And unfortunately, there'd almost certainly be no option for the service side to be bought out for someone to continue providing it, like with TiVo; if it goes away, it's gone. Gone gone.
demonfoo is offline  
Old 07-16-2012, 09:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 10,467
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

And unfortunately, there'd almost certainly be no option for the service side to be bought out for someone to continue providing it, like with TiVo.
Replay TV boxes have continued to get guide service long after they were a footnote. No one can really say what will happen should TiVo go under. If there is a profit to be made supplying guide service, someone will step to the plate.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 12:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rammitinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 17,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Quote:
 Why post when you don't have a problem? wink.gif
 

 

Because you gave up on it long ago, and moved onto something more reliable? Most people that have DVR's want them to "just work".

Rammitinski is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 02:00 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rammitinski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 17,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
If there is a profit to be made supplying guide service, someone will step to the plate.

 

Which leaves out TVGOS through cable and OTA. Internet delivery has already been decided on, as far as the future, most profitable, TVGOS delivery mode. 

Rammitinski is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:16 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,458
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Quote:
Most people that have DVR's want them to "just work".
Now that's a silly idea. What fun is in that? biggrin.gif

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:20 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
wajo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 14,091
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Is the Moxi like the Sony; no Guide data, no recording or is there a manual option like there should be?

Yes, that's my understanding of the situation. Without the guide service, the box is basically useless. And unfortunately, there'd almost certainly be no option for the service side to be bought out for someone to continue providing it, like with TiVo; if it goes away, it's gone. Gone gone.

 

According to this Moxi user, you can't even watch live TV w/o the Guide.


PHILIPS HD DVRs | MAG/PHILIPS SD DVDRs* | DVDR/DVR COMPARISONS | POST-DVDR OPTIONS
*Due to the AVS SW change in June 2014, most but not all links in this thread will work if you're not logged in. If you are logged in, links should work if your User CP > Edit Options > Number of Posts to Show per Page is set to 30, the default.
wajo is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:31 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
videobruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 15,458
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 324 Post(s)
Liked: 167
Pure stupidity. Period.

Almost as bad as producing a digital tuner/recorder that can't do HDTV. wink.gif

.
.
Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way. If you like Wi-Fi so much, OTA fits right in. After all, it is wireless.
videobruce is offline  
Old 07-17-2012, 10:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 4,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Yep, they really cheaped out in the software when they didn't even provide capability to do manual (time-based) recordings or view live TV without the guide. IMO they would have to release an update to enable this before pulling the plug on the guide service, but from what I've read they only sold around 5k units so they might just pull the plug and settle with whoever gets a lawyer.

Either way, Moxi is not a viable option at this point unless you get a really cheap used one.
slowbiscuit is offline  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
demonfoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Replay TV boxes have continued to get guide service long after they were a footnote. No one can really say what will happen should TiVo go under. If there is a profit to be made supplying guide service, someone will step to the plate.
But you have to pay for that guide service, like with TiVo. Which is fine. My point was that the Moxi box is a different story because unlike those cases, Arris still owns the tech, protocols, infrastructure, etc., and because existing Moxi owners who paid full price for the units probably won't want to pay monthly for the guide service that they paid a buttload up front to get. If TiVo went under, someone would probably buy them up at least for their customer base, but this wouldn't be Arris going under, just them saying "We're sick of doing this for a product we don't sell anymore and aren't making money from, F off".
demonfoo is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off