Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere - Page 22 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #631 of 799 Old 08-30-2013, 01:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Aleron Ives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Another matter of taste, I guess. HD is great but it can't save lousy content. So I watch a lot of old syndicated shows, which are often unavailable in HD.

I still don't understand the "I won't watch anything in SD" mentality. Some of the best TV shows ever made were in SD, and if you go by the numbers, it's probably more accurate to say that most of them were, since HD hasn't been around that long compared to the age of TV itself. You'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time watching TV to have seen every good show ever made since the dawn of television. One of my favourite perks of the DTV transition is the advent of SD sub-channels that show old programming I've missed, since those networks wouldn't have survived on their own in the analogue era.

Besides, if HD really is that important, I can only assume that people who hate SD never watched TV before the DTV transition, because the SD quality was just so unbearable. wink.gif
Aleron Ives is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #632 of 799 Old 08-30-2013, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 304
Analog SD on a large digital screen looks particlarly dreadful. Digital SD, like a DVD, looks pretty good to me when played on a decent upconverting player. The problem I've seen is that digital SD on the OTA sub-channels is usually so starved for bitrate that the PQ really suffers. The few times I've tuned in one of those sub-channels, I was treated to lots of macro-blocking and motion artifacts.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #633 of 799 Old 08-30-2013, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I still don't understand the "I won't watch anything in SD" mentality.

You'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time watching TV to have seen every good show ever made since the dawn of television. One of my favourite perks of the DTV transition is the advent of SD sub-channels that show old programming I've missed, since those networks wouldn't have survived on their own in the analogue era.


I think it's rather easy to understand. I virtually haven't viewed a DVD since HD media became available. I have never dumbed down my content such as viewing Transformers in order to view HD. There is simply more than I can ever get to...

 

Now if you have an inordinate about of time to spend on SD more power to you. Fortunately, in my case I don't.

Charles R is offline  
post #634 of 799 Old 08-30-2013, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 147
On a really big screen (and the closer you are to it), SD looks a lot worse (although a good up-converter can compensate somewhat), and even HD begins to show its limits, hence the demand for "4K." But having grown up in an era of 19"-25" screens, I'm perfectly happy with a "mere" 32" TV on which SD looks just fine, at least with S-video.

And ludicrously low SD bit-rates are a pet peeve of mine. I have that problem with our This TV subchannel. The station only has 3 subchannels: one HD and two SD; but throws so much bandwidth at the HD channel (a CW affiliate) that This's PQ really suffers. I understand the impulse to make HD looks its best, but not at the cost of making your SD subchannels unwatchable.

But Charles, to be fair, with movies, of course you'd choose the highest-quality content available. There's no need to rent Transformers just to get HD, because all movies start out in better-than-HD resolution anyway. But that's not necessarily true with OTA TV, although whether you like the newer shows that you can watch in HD, you prefer older, SD-only shows, or you go for a mix, is ultimately a matter of taste. I can't find fault with whatever choice anyone makes.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #635 of 799 Old 08-30-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

But having grown up in an era of 19"-25" screens, I'm perfectly happy with a "mere" 32" TV on which SD looks just fine, at least with S-video.


Once again it's... one's preferences. I think it's been roughly two decades since I have had a screen size of less than thirty-six inches. My first set was given to me by a neighbor... B&W and I'm guessing 17 inches or so. Sure I could try and find repeats of Beat the Clock I watched on it but for some unknown reason I don't.

Charles R is offline  
post #636 of 799 Old 09-01-2013, 11:34 AM
Newbie
 
sbmcruise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How do you think the new Tivo Roamio Plus and Pro HD DVRs change this discussion?
sbmcruise is offline  
post #637 of 799 Old 09-01-2013, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbmcruise View Post

How do you think the new Tivo Roamio Plus and Pro HD DVRs change this discussion?

 

I think the base model Roamio has more chance to change the landscape. With four tuners and support for the Mini it's now a viable solution for whole house OTA. The cable versions are a refresh. To some degree it can fuel potential cord-cutters. I know when I was looking to cut the cord I would have been much more likely to stay with TiVo. Currently, I'll be staying with WMC for simple reasons...

 

  • I will always have a computer in my den. Right now I'm running a HDMI cable to the TV so WMC is virtually free.
  • In my dedicated room I need XBMC playback (HD audio/video) so I need more than a Mini. Add a decent media player and the cost is close to the PC I built. Although somewhat tempting to switch.


If it was a year ago (when I switched from TiVo to WMC) I probably wouldn't have... even though to a large degree I did it for the sake of change... something different. Now if I hadn't just invested in building a PC I would have probably switched back... again for the change.

 

Early returns in the HTPC forum seem positive (regarding TiVo) which I find some what surprising. But again us nerds don't really matter and I hope TiVo finds success with the Roamio and OTA users.

Charles R is offline  
post #638 of 799 Old 09-01-2013, 07:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHBrandt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: S. Garland, TX
Posts: 1,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

This is a little OT, but after seeing your screenshots, you are in serious need of some MCL. I've got 11 lines per page by 3 hrs wide like I had on Dish and it looks fantastic. That default view is for the birds. You may also benefit from moving your corner out, as described HERE. It's written for extenders, but the registry keys are similar for the local session.

Thanks for the registry tweaks. I can definitely vouch for the improved appearance. Even w/o MCL, everything in WMC is larger and easier to read. Especially useful on my "small" screen!

BTW in reply to Charles, I was looking at Labor Day sales today and it looks like 40" and even 50" screens have gotten pretty cheap. 60" and up are still a pretty penny, but I imagine SD would really show its limitations on even a 50" screen. I'll stick with my 32" for now, but when it's time for an upgrade I wouldn't be surprised if my tolerance for SD drops a bit.

But I suspect one's SD v. HD tastes also have to do with age. I'm now enjoying shows from the late 60's when I was a kid and didn't "get" adult humor, but that probably only works because I was alive back then and remember the technology we had. I suspect my nieces wouldn't know what to make of a series like, say, Get Smart.
JHBrandt is offline  
post #639 of 799 Old 09-01-2013, 09:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Aleron Ives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 247
I've been thinking of trying Get Smart when I've seen every episode of my current batch of MeTV shows. wink.gif

You need not feel bad about your 32" TV: mine is only 26", so HD is even less important. I still don't own a display that is capable of 1080p.
Aleron Ives is offline  
post #640 of 799 Old 09-19-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

Well I guess to a degree I'm divorcing myself from WMC. However it's still my DVR and more likely will continue to be for the foreseeable future. However I did...

 

  • Sell the Shuttle - I built for XBMC and WMC to be used in my dedicated room.
  • Built a NUC with OpenELEC booting off of a USB flash drive - runs XBMC which will play native wtv files.
  • Connected my den's desktop to the TV - eliminating a dedicated DVR HTPC.

 

So now outside of two HDHomeRun dual tuners I have zero hardware commitment to WMC. I'm still happy with WMC so I don't see any reason to jump back to TiVo. I am waiting on SiliconDust to releases their new OTA tuners and see how well DLNA works. I'm presuming playback via XMBC would be a piece of cake. However I do have tvheadend server/client working on OpenELEC so I can view live TV and in theory record. Although without a hard drive it might be rather difficult unless I can configure it to use my NAS for recordings.

 

I'm using my NAS now with the den's HTPC/WMC (via iSCSI) and it's not quite as stable as a local drive but so far so good. I only have a SSD in the HTPC so it's very quiet. Even quieter than the NUC I build (configued for quiet mode) which is some what disappointing.

 

Going back to TiVo (Roamio and Mini) is $800 with the discount code and right now I don't see what I would gain. Outside of having a dedicated box instead of relying on my desktop which has a few drawbacks. So I'll keep waiting to see what SiliconDust comes out with and until then enjoy the fall TV season. :) 


 


 

Charles R is offline  
post #641 of 799 Old 09-19-2013, 12:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,782
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Liked: 304
What was your reason for abandoning the Shuttle?
Seems like a NUC is quite a step down.

So, in your current configuration, you are running WMC on a Desktop and storing the .wtv files on a NAS to be played by NUC/XBMC -- correct?
And in that way you have abandoned the WMC interface as a DVR and only use it to schedule your recordings.
Does NUC/XBMC have skip ability to skip through commecials, or must you FF.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #642 of 799 Old 09-19-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

What was your reason for abandoning the Shuttle?
Seems like a NUC is quite a step down.

 

For starters my needs are very low-end and not typical to any degree.

 

I built the Shuttle after selling my Mac Mini. I wanted a Windows PC and like Shuttle quite a bit. I got a great price on the i3 and the entire project was under $400. It was originally going to be my desktop (replacing the Mini). During this time my dedicated room drew more of my attention (new projector) and as such it needs a media player.

 

Having three PCs seems way overkill so the dedicated room was the odd man out. I tried various media players but none of them work with WMC to any degree. I refuse to transcode, etc. So I thought I already have a nice HTPC in the den (where I view 99.99% of my TV) so why do I need to use the Shuttle as my desktop. Why not move the HTPC from the TV over to my desk... and back to the TV via wire or wireless using dual displays.

 

After using that arrangement for a month I'm sold. My desktop (SSD only) runs WMC and stores recordings directly to my NAS (iSCSI). I have it attached to my TV via HDMI and I'm using VGA to my monitor (at 1080p). There is only one thing I don't like about the entire arrangement! When you have WMC full screen in the second monitor and use your desktop (first monitor) most of the Harmony commands don't work. Instead they are directed to your desktop. As an example using the 30-second skip is a pain... as you have to refocus back to WMC first,

 

So I'm still using WMC as my full time interface and from using NextPVR and Tvheadend via XBMC I won't switch anytime soon. So the only real change is I stopped using the Shuttle (never really used it in the first place) and instead use what was my dedicated DVR as my desktop and DVR.

 

I tried the Shuttle in the dedicated room as in theory I'd like access to WMC along with my required streaming needs. It performed very nicely and I had Windows Pro 8.1 Preview with Media Center installed. All of my media resides on the NAS so storage wasn't required outside of Windows. I have numerous Windows 7 OEM licenses I could have used but I'm sure I'd want Windows 8 so it would have been another $150 or so come January. I had the opportunity to sell it (slight profit) and decided why not. Worse case is I build another.

 

For something different I decided to go with a NUC (Celeron) and use OpenELEC. It's Linux and has XBMC pre-installed. I run it off of a flash drive (no hard drive installed) and it runs like a champ. HD video/audio with zero issues. I also have live TV via XBMC and can play native wtv files. It's more than powerful and cost wise well less than half the Shuttle. I installed 4GB of RAM encase I ever want to install Windows I just need to drop a drive into it. Many are using it with Windows.

 

The NUC is rather neat. It boots in what seems like two seconds. XBMC is fast and OpenELEC is customized with many Add-ons integrated and already configured. Like getting my HDHomeRuns tuners working required a couple of clicks on the mouse. XBMC's playback can be configured and offers endless options.

 

Bottom line I ended up (for the moment) with one and a half computers instead of three. :) And a nice play toy that's up and running within minutes via a flash drive and still offers plenty of tweaking if you want to keep yourself out of trouble.

Charles R is offline  
post #643 of 799 Old 09-20-2013, 07:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 279
That's quite a system you've got there. Thanks for the detailed post. I attempted something like that with Raspberry Pi's. It worked pretty well, but I ended up simplifying and ultimately going back to a single PC (the same size as your Shuttle with an old Pentium E6700 3.2GHz) running WMC, plus 5 extenders throughout the house at the moment. My case, motherboard, CPU, power supply, and optical drive was a grand total of $50 used from ebay. I have no NAS, no XBMC, no NextPVR, just WMC. My system is only a whole-home cable DVR replacement. I have no need to stream anything else remotely, besides Netflix, which I stream on other boxes. I can do all my file playback directly on my PC (connected to the TV of course). And since I have no wired ethernet in any rooms besides my main home theater, I use MoCA (DECA actually, due to the lower cost) throughout the rest of the house.
mdavej is offline  
post #644 of 799 Old 09-22-2013, 06:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Aleron Ives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 247
On a semi-related note regarding Video ReDo (since there doesn't seem to be much recent discussion of it in the HTPC forum), I know that it is supposed to support frame-accurate editing, but I was wondering how it deals with DD audio. If you can cut the audio and video simultaneously without having to transcode, does it have a workaround for the limitation of AC3 being stored in 32ms blocks at 48 kHz, does it try to adjust your cuts to frames that are close to a multiple of 32ms, or does it just cut the AC3 at the nearest block and allow the audio and video to desync by up to 32ms? I'm not sure such a small sync error would be noticeable, but since Video ReDo is so highly praised, I'm wondering if it has a way to deal with this problem among its many features.
Aleron Ives is offline  
post #645 of 799 Old 09-28-2013, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

My iSCSI experiment has passed the first week of the Fall TV season with flying colors. I have had four recordings and viewing a recording going at once as well as heavy usage and the NAS has performed like a champ. Since WMC is running via my desktop I don't want the noise of a hard drive or for that matter having to dump a hard drive into the PC. It has a SSD and the two fans are virtually silent. I was using a hard drive and it would power down until recordings started but it got noisy when active. Not overly so but bothersome none the less.

 

I have plenty of room on my NAS so I allocated 650GB to a iSCSI drive for recordings. The PC sees it as drive R and it simply works. The only issue I have seen is when I reboot the NAS (not that I have to) WMC states the drive is full. If I simply reboot the PC it's back to normal... working great. I imagine I could stop/restart the iSCSI service and that would resolved the issue as well. If I ever need more space I can copy recordings from the R drive to the NAS's normal storage. Bottom line iSCSI appears ready for prime time. My hardware configuration is listed in my signature if you are wondering what I'm using.

 

The NUC I built ended up getting swapped (by Intel) as it was an old revision and the motherboard was missing a feature. I really like the silly thing. Its build quality is very high (for today) and for the price (less than $200) you get a PC for not much more the price of a streamer. I'm really impressed with OpenELEC and well worth a donation... supporting.

Charles R is offline  
post #646 of 799 Old 10-04-2013, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

Server and Client software for using Windows Media Center (WMC) as the PVR backend for XBMC


https://googledrive.com/host/0ByNnAMYBoWvfTk8tRWJXYko1T2c/index.html
 

The above is great software. :) It allows you to use WMC (strictly if desired) as a backend. Why is this valuable? It allows you to use XBMC as a client/extender and offers virtually all of the features (in my case - perhaps not yours :) ) of a native extender. In my case I'm using a NUC/OpenELEC/XBMC PC which runs via a USB flash drive. No Windows here...

 

First you install the server on your WMC system which takes roughly two minutes. If you will be using network clients (who wouldn't) you need to verify/enter the network share path to the 'Recorded TV' folder in the server's Folder tab. It should be automatically added and worse case for non Windows clients you'll need to add the User Name and Password. Make sure it's running...

 

Now to install the client (XBMC Add-on). Simply copy the client's directory to the XBMC's Add-on directory and enable via XBMC. After enabling enter the WMC PC's IP address.  It will automatically add all of your channels, your recordings, reflect your scheduled recordings, etc.

 

That's it. Roughly 10 minutes top and WMC is all Linux friendly! If you want the gory details including encrypted restrictions...

 

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=171216 Here's an image from the thread...

 

Charles R is offline  
post #647 of 799 Old 10-11-2013, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

For testing I moved my NUC into the den and have been giving it a workout. For those not following along it's an Intel Celeron with 4GB RAM and I'm using a 8GB USB flash drive with OpenELEC... no hard drive (at all). Cost wise it's a 4GB Xbox 360S (not on sale). I'm using its dual HDMI outputs... one goes to the display the second the AV receiver.

 

HD playback works like a champ and using SAMBA via my NAS I avoid using DLNA and its many limitations such as the lack of title indexing. Only thing I had to configure was adding a couple of video driver resolutions to get perfect playback (59.94 and true 24). Here's a copy of the file you need to drop into the /storage/.config/xbmc folder (xorg.conf)...

 

Section "Device"
  Identifier  "Device0"
  Driver      "intel"
  VendorName  "INTEL Corporation"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
  Identifier  "Screen0"
  Device      "Device0"
  Monitor     "HDMI1"
  DefaultDepth  24
  SubSection "Display"
    Depth       24
    Modes     "1920x1080@59.94p" "1920x1080@24p" "1920x1080@60p"
  EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
  Identifier  "HDMI1"
  HorizSync   14.0 - 70.0
  VertRefresh 24.0 - 62.0
  Option      "DPMS" "true"
  Modeline    "1920x1080@24p"     74.230 1920 2560 2604 2752 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
  Modeline    "1920x1080@50p"    148.500 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
  Modeline    "1920x1080@59.94p" 148.352 1920 1960 2016 2200 1080 1082 1088 1125 +hsync +vsync
  Modeline    "1920x1080@60p"    148.500 1920 2008 2056 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
  # fixes tearing
  Option      "Composite"           "Disable"
EndSection

 

Germaine to this thread I have been testing ServerWMC and its client. So far I'm very impressed. I'm using Windows 8.1 Pro Preview as a WMC backend and all playback has been via OpenELEC/XBMC NUC. Now I'm OTA only so obviously my comments relate to such.

 

The experience is different than a WMC extender but in most cases very similar. You can view the guide, schedule and play recordings, watch live TV, etc. So far my only complaints are... channel changing is slow but since I hardly ever do it I don't really care. I haven't (yet) found a way to display recordings in folders (for series). The one I do care about is viewing a recording while it's still being recorded. Basically, you lose trick play features such as skipping commercials (of which you can do once the recording has finished). I watch a lot of commercial delayed shows so this a biggie for me. I'm guessing if you have a spare tuner you could simply watch it live (not the live recording) and have the trick play stuff available... I'll have to try that out.

 

Again, the experience is very different and some things I like better than WMC. The interface is a little slicker and the harmony remote is very easy to customize. Here I changed the default skip forward and back times (advancedsettings.xml)...

 

<advancedsettings>
<video>
<usetimeseeking>true</usetimeseeking>
<smallstepbackseconds>8</smallstepbackseconds>
<timeseekbackward>-8</timeseekbackward>
<timeseekforwardbig>30</timeseekforwardbig>
</video>
</advancedsettings>

 

My initial impression is I would never buy another Xbox (as an extender) unless it was under $100 or needed to be 100% idiot proof. OpenELEC takes about five minutes to install and the ServerWMC and client another five minutes. So after 30 to 60 minutes you are good to go. :) If you are like me and you enjoy casual tweaking it's also a wonderful outlet. Not complex at all nor required but you can tread as lightly or as heavily as you wish. Your entire installation resides on a flash drive and OpenELEC has a built-in backup/restore that will let you return home at any point in time. You can even give it a test drive without messing up your existing PC. Just configure it to boot off of a USB flash drive and install away - just be sure not to select you hard drive during installation!

Charles R is offline  
post #648 of 799 Old 10-11-2013, 04:47 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Keenan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 27,874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Server and Client software for using Windows Media Center (WMC) as the PVR backend for XBMC

https://googledrive.com/host/0ByNnAMYBoWvfTk8tRWJXYko1T2c/index.html

 
This system/setup is for unencrypted only, is that correct?
Keenan is online now  
post #649 of 799 Old 10-11-2013, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post


This system/setup is for unencrypted only, is that correct?

 

I believe it is. Although I have read something about how he might be able to read certain protected files. Since I'm OTA only I haven't dug deep into the topic...

 

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=171216&highlight=encrypted

Charles R is offline  
post #650 of 799 Old 10-17-2013, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

I installed Windows 8.1 Pro on top of my Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media Center today. Downloading from the store and installation went great. However it crashed during the final reboot asking me to select my keyboard language and refused to go any further. Only options were shutdown, run another OS (Windows 8.1 Preview or Windows 8.1) or trouble shoot.

 

During various trouble shooting attempts it reported the hard drive was locked or corrupt. Eventually, I got Refresh PC to work with a Windows 8.0 DVD. It took a couple of times with the last one taking 10 minutes or so... saying it was corrupt and would attempt to repair the drive. After a reboot I was good to go. Since I use a SSD and have heard of lock issues I was concerned... figured it was a driver error but who knows. Everything seems great now.

 

This update path requires you to re-install your Apps which I knew up front. All eight or so for me including drivers. Not sure if it was because of my issue but I had to configure WMC from scratch (it was still installed). Data on my hard drive wasn't damaged at all... at least as far as I have seen. I only have one directory (temp) and I keep a mirror of it on my NAS. My recordings are on the NAS as well. I did have to reconfigure iSCSI too.

 

For those that haven't tried 8.1 (over 8.0) I think it's a nice upgrade... quite a few little things that add up during the day. In my case one big thing (the update itself) for several hours.

Charles R is offline  
post #651 of 799 Old 10-18-2013, 11:27 AM
QuadMersed in bass!
 
giomania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,913
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I installed Windows 8.1 Pro on top of my Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media Center today. Downloading from the store and installation went great. However it crashed during the final reboot asking me to select my keyboard language and refused to go any further. Only options were shutdown, run another OS (Windows 8.1 Preview or Windows 8.1) or trouble shoot.

During various trouble shooting attempts it reported the hard drive was locked or corrupt. Eventually, I got Refresh PC to work with a Windows 8.0 DVD. It took a couple of times with the last one taking 10 minutes or so... saying it was corrupt and would attempt to repair the drive. After a reboot I was good to go. Since I use a SSD and have heard of lock issues I was concerned... figured it was a driver error but who knows. Everything seems great now.

This update path requires you to re-install your Apps which I knew up front. All eight or so for me including drivers. Not sure if it was because of my issue but I had to configure WMC from scratch (it was still installed). Data on my hard drive wasn't damaged at all... at least as far as I have seen. I only have one directory (temp) and I keep a mirror of it on my NAS. My recordings are on the NAS as well. I did have to reconfigure iSCSI too.

For those that haven't tried 8.1 (over 8.0) I think it's a nice upgrade... quite a few little things that add up during the day. In my case one big thing (the update itself) for several hours.

Bummer that you had these issues. I am going to wait (at least) a couple of weeks before upgrading my Win 8 Pro machines to Win 8.1; I am not running the preview on any of them, so I hope it goes smoother than your upgrade.

Mark
giomania is offline  
post #652 of 799 Old 10-18-2013, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post


I am going to wait (at least) a couple of weeks before upgrading my Win 8 Pro machines to Win 8.1; I am not running the preview on any of them, so I hope it goes smoother than your upgrade.

 

I think you have two years to update so there is no hurry. :) Last night my recordings worked like a champ and so far so good regarding the PC. Only issue I had was with my OpenELEC NUC. I installed an OS and WMCServer/client update and I could no longer view live TV or play my recordings stored on the PC (actually on the NAS via iSCSI - shared from the PC). Although XBMC running on the same PC as the WMCServer could.

 

Long story short when I update to 8.1 Pro it forces you to add an online account (at least I couldn't see a way around it). Once I had it running I created a local account with the same name I was using before which it did fine and I deleted the online account. Well for some reason it add _2 to the name even though I can logon using the same name as before. I'm guessing somewhere (deep) it knew the first name existed and added the _2. I had the username/password setup in WMCServer for accessing my recording directory which now failed. Since I updated three things at once I wasn't sure what was what for a while. After adding the _2 to the WMCServer's credentials it's working again.

 

After a few months I can really recommend using iSCSI for recordings. My WMC PC only has a SSD and all recordings are located on my NAS. Using iSCSI the NAS's drive appears local and it's plenty fast for four concurrent recordings and playback. Only item of interest is whenever I desire to reboot the NAS (haven't been forced to yet) I need to reboot the WMC PC afterwards. Other wise the iSCSI connection might be dropped. Haven't lost any recordings yet and it saves the expense of throwing a large drive into the PC and putting up with its related noise.

Charles R is offline  
post #653 of 799 Old 10-18-2013, 01:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 279
I had zero issues going from 8 to 8.1. It was essentially like a normal windows update plus a few reboots. All my accounts, programs and apps remained intact. You only get into trouble going from 8.1 Preview to 8.1 as Charles did. I did mine on crappy hotel wifi and it went fine. The only thing I had to update was StartIsBack. Getting 1080p Netflix in a browser was the reason I upgraded. I couldn't care less about Metro or whatever they've done to it.
mdavej is offline  
post #654 of 799 Old 10-19-2013, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

I had zero issues going from 8 to 8.1.


I would expect this to be the norm. One thing I gained is sleep and hibernation is back to working properly. Somewhere along the way I messed it up and it wouldn't go back to sleep or hibernate after the PC woke up such as for a recording.

 

I never used Windows 7 (outside of my wife's laptop) so Windows 8 is my baseline. I curse her laptop every time I have to use it. :) 

Charles R is offline  
post #655 of 799 Old 12-15-2013, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

Well I didn't expect it to end like this... I thought I'd be with WMC until the guide disappeared. Earlier in the week one of my channels disappeared as in WMC said it wasn't available even though during the signal strength it scans at 100%. Also, I can view the channel via HDHomeRun's app. It's a channel that broadcasts on two frequencies so I thought it got confused somehow (9.1 and 17.3) although it's never been an issue in the last year and a half. Anyway messing around trying various things it just started working again all by itself.

 

That is until last night. After some more playing I got smart and tried to view the channel on my wife's laptop. Same deal channel not available. I looked over at Silicondust's forum and sure enough others are reporting the same issue.

 

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=16214

 

I emailed the local channel and left a message as I can't see any further troubleshooting I can do... other than picking up a TiVo Roamio ($100) at Best Buy this morning. I'm in the middle of installing it and unless WMC/local channel fixes itself within seven or I guess at most thirty days that's it. I'll purchase lifetime and sell off my two HDHomeRun tuners. I also picked up a Xbox 360 E at $99 for the wife encase she ever gets a TV and I'll simply return it.

 

Just as soon stay with WMC so I'm hoping something is figured out. Googling I saw where someone had to contact a local station and they set up WMC in-house figured it out and rolled out a fix. Not sure I'll be that lucky!

Charles R is offline  
post #656 of 799 Old 12-15-2013, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

I can thank TiVo for helping me somewhat resolve this. Apparently you need to now add/map 9.3 for the local WISHTV channel. Before you needed to add channel 9 which points to 9.1. 8.1 the low power channel points to 17.1. Only 9.3 points to 17.3 which actually works. Once you activate 9.3 map its schedule to 8.1 and you should be good to go.

Charles R is offline  
post #657 of 799 Old 01-03-2014, 06:31 PM
Newbie
 
jxsanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Charles,

 

Thanks for all the posting you've done.  I read pretty much the whole first couple of pages of this thread before I realized how long ago it started, and then jumped to the last.  This may be buried somewhere in between (just let me know) but could you provide a fairly detailed diagram or drawing of your latest setup?  Even if it's hand written?

 

On a second note, if I wanted to use a dedicated laptop, does anyone have a recommendation for what to use for an external tuner(s)?  I'd like to have a total of 4 tuners.

jxsanon is offline  
post #658 of 799 Old 01-04-2014, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

Most everything in the thread is still relevant. As WMC is stuck in mud and not changing hopefully anytime soon. Certainly it will be for the bad when it does... can you say no guide data. Long story short I'm still going strong with WMC however TiVo is now tempting with their server/client implementation.

 

My currently installation is under review but at the moment...

 

  • 2 HDHomeRuns - 4 tuners installed in my electronic closet. They have been rebooted once or twice in the last year and a half.
  • NAS (various models) - iSCSI for recordings. The NAS stores backups, video files, and WMC's recordings. My PC's only have small SSDs which makes them quiet. And having the recordings on the NAS I can easily configure/reconfigure a PC to be the WMC server/recorder.
  • Desktop - Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center. I attached my den's TV as a secondary display via HDMI. This works great with the only drawback being unless the WMC window is active the Harmony remote won't work.
  • NUC in dedicated room ($200) - Run OpenELEC/XBMC via a USB flash drive. With ServerWMC (installed on the WMC server) and the WMC add-on it makes a great extender.
  • Xbox 360 E - stole one via Amazon for $99. In theory it's my wife's if she finds a cabinet for the Hearth room it will be used in there. Right now it's connected to the den's TV for testing and or viewing.

 

I like to play around (on my terms) so I just purchased a small mSATA drive for the NUC and installed Windows 7 Premium to see how it would work. So far so good being only a Celeron it's rather under powered for Windows but WMC works great and is only a touch slower than the my desktop (an older i3). Right now I'm debating which PC I want to use for WMC and where to locate it... and whether I want to use the Xbox 360 until it finds a permanent home.

 

In the dedicated room I have to have movie playback and more or less the same in the den so I can't simply use the Xbox. Also, with this being a slow time of year (for OTA) I have been giving Netflix another try and the Windows 8 Netflix app does Super HD. I refuse to buy Xbox Live to simply stream Netflix. Heck a Chromecast works as good or better and at $30 it's half a year. I happen to have one around I haven't even opened yet... still trying to find a reason.

 

Regarding cost I tend to look at it this way... my only WMC actual expenses...

 

$110 - 4 tuners

$99 - Xbox 360 E

$209 - total cost

 

Sure I'm using two PCs and a NAS but in my installation I have them anyway and they can certainly be re-purposed. It's the low cost along with missing perhaps two shows in eighteen months that prevents me from leaving.

kwg likes this.
Charles R is offline  
post #659 of 799 Old 01-05-2014, 10:04 AM
Newbie
 
jxsanon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Thanks, Charles.  Attached is the setup that I have envisioned.  (Don't ask me why the splitter isn't showing off the antenna.  I gave up.)  The dotted lines mean wireless connectivity.  The fewer components and wires the better. 

 

1. First question is how far can I take the clean look.  Does the HTPC have to be wired to the router?  Since they are on the same network, does the SmartTV have to be wired (HDMI) to the HTPC?  Except for the non-smartTV, all of the components would be in close proximity to each other.  Of course I want to record/view in HD so I'm assuming it's preferable to be wired, if not mandatory.

 

2. Will this let me to do any combination of view/record up to 4 shows simultaneously?

 

3. You've mentioned a couple of times how your tuners only cost ~$50.  Are they similar to this item on e-bay?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/SiliconDust-HD-HomeRun-Network-TV-Tuner-DUAL-clearQAM-ATSC-HDHR-US-HDHomerun-/190983218918?pt=US_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item2c777ca6e6

 

3. Will a decent laptop be able to serve as the HTPC? 

 

4. Do you think a basic splitter will work?  Or do I need one that enhances the signal?  Or is it simply a try it and see?

 

5. Will the Roku 3 serve as an Extender?  In this setup, would I be able to view HD even on this second TV?

 

jxsanon is offline  
post #660 of 799 Old 01-05-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 163

1. I would make sure the PC doing the recordings is wired.

2. With 4 tuners you can record four shows and still view previous recordings at the same time.

3. Your link is to the older model however they will work fine. I have the newer (not the newest) model that I caught on sale for $55 each. The newest model feature DLNA support so you could view live TV via the Roku or other DLNA devices. You wouldn't be able to view recordings, I'm sure they won't be as highly discounted.

 

http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HDHomeRun-Definition-Digital-HDHR3-US/dp/B004HO58SO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1388948068&sr=8-2&keywords=hdhomeruns

http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HomeRun-Branded-Native-HDHR4-2US/dp/B00GY0UB54/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&srs=3092032011&ie=UTF8&qid=1388948155&sr=1-8&keywords=silicondust - new model

 

4. A laptop should work. But personally I would stay away from one. They tend to reduce their power after running x period of time and overall not any real advantage. I would probably re-purpose an existing PC or pick up a bargain PC or build a NUC.

5. Any splitter should work. The newer devices split the signal internally. 

6. Available extenders are rare. Xbox (virtually any model) makes the most sense (to me). I also use a NUC as referenced above. With the new tuners supporting DLNA it changes the landscape. If you only want to view live TV any DLNA device most works as an extender. If you want access to recordings not so much.

Charles R is offline  
Reply HDTV Recorders

Tags
Tivo , wmc

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off