Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere - Page 27 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #781 of 799 Old 05-21-2014, 06:06 PM
Member
 
happy2Lurk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Thank you, Charles R, for this thread. Of all the threads I have come across, yours is the only one I have read start to present and plan to follow.

A few months ago I got a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Dual HDHR3-US ($61), one of the last it seems, to try out wmc. I was considering building an HTPC vs getting my first Tivo, so your thread was just what I needed. At some point, I believe you suggested, that getting a sale/clearance pc could save some cash vs. building. Someone else mentioned used pc's on craigslist and refurbished pc's. So, I have been looking for deals. So far, it does look like building will be more expensive.

Now, you "got bored," and built one. By shopping parts, "pieces at Fry's with a great price that have rebates..." - do you think you saved anything over a, retail pc, sale/deal?

Also, you went with win7. Since you have used both for wmc, do you think win7 is better than win8pro?

I have also just started trying out xbmc gotham. I have xbmc integrated in wmc and the WMC Add-on in XBMC, so that I can start xbmc from wmc and/or use wmc from within xbmc.

I am confused by your post above, where you say, "XBMC allows you to view WMC (OTA) either without Windows (OpenELEC, etc) or with Windows 8 without upgrading to Pro with Media Center."

I do not understand, how with xbmc, you can get wmc, without a Windows version, that includes wmc. I read that you can run xbmc with just, "OpenELEC, etc" but can you really have wmc, on a stand alone pc, without windows?

I ask because after all I have read, I concluded my best bet was a win7 or 8pro machine because of the $110 upgrade cost to get from win8 to 8pro with wmc. If I can really run wmc, on a win8 pc, that will open a lot more options - so, I would really like to know how to do it.

Again, thanks for the great thread and to all who help the less knowledgeable, like myself.
happy2Lurk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #782 of 799 Old 05-21-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 164
  • Hardware wise I think buying a sale/close-out PC (find one with Windows 7 HP or Ultimate) is the best bang for the buck. The build I just posted was less than $500 without any OS. A NUC would be less expensive and less powerful at the same time. You can find an i3 for less. I built it as I just got the bug and over time I'm sure I'll reconfigure it various ways and knowing the pieces per se should help. I already have my eye on a video card...
  • I used Windows 7 for one or two reasons. I have a few licenses so it didn't cost me anything. I would have had to purchase Windows 8 Pro OEM and purchased Media Center. Performance wise I can't tell a difference. Overall I do prefer Windows 8.
  • Running XBMC with the WMC Add-on via OpenELEC or with Windows 8 (without Pro and Media Center) I was referencing clients. Taking for granted you have another PC running WMC (server).

 

Currently, and I have for the most part the last two years used my desktop (i3) as my WMC PC (server as I call it). It's reliable enough that WMC doesn't have to have a dedicated PC and I seem to have even worked out my iSCSI issue. Where I record directly to my NAS. So I basically see the WMC PC as being free since it's pretty sure you have a PC going in. Mine hibernates like a champ so power usage isn't an issue.

 

Once you want extender/clients it becomes more complex and perhaps TiVo starts looking better. That's another can of worms.

Charles R is offline  
post #783 of 799 Old 05-22-2014, 08:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 279
If you ever think you'll get any extenders (besides Xbox), you should avoid Win 8. There are no improvements to WMC in Win 8.

For full functionality and simplicity for live and recorded TV, you can't beat Win 7, WMC and extenders. If you do primarily file streaming, then XBMC makes more sense.

FWIW, my HTPC was $50 on eBay. I added a couple hundred bucks worth of upgrades to get to my current 3TB, 6 tuner system that serves 5 TVs, 4 of which are extenders. I also plug in a Pi running openelec when I want to experiment.
mdavej is offline  
post #784 of 799 Old 05-22-2014, 03:25 PM
Member
 
happy2Lurk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

If you ever think you'll get any extenders (besides Xbox), you should avoid Win 8. There are no improvements to WMC in Win 8.

For full functionality and simplicity for live and recorded TV, you can't beat Win 7, WMC and extenders. If you do primarily file streaming, then XBMC makes more sense.

FWIW, my HTPC was $50 on eBay. I added a couple hundred bucks worth of upgrades to get to my current 3TB, 6 tuner system that serves 5 TVs, 4 of which are extenders. I also plug in a Pi running openelec when I want to experiment.

mdavej, do you have personal experience with both win7 & 8pro running wmc & xbmc?

Charles R has used & talked about both, is using extenders and says, "Performance wise I can't tell a difference. Overall I do prefer Windows 8." From what I've read, win8pro is less wmc friendly but that can be over come, it boots quicker and since newer, likely better for future.

For myself, win7-HP is what I am currently using to "play" with possible HTPC setups, so it would be easier - but I'm not convinced that it is better. Ultimately, if I go with a retail pc deal, the OS is just one more variable in deciding if it is a good deal - I might prefer win7 but if a win8pro machine is significantly less ...

What I am really trying to sort through now is hardware. Charles R has said Intel i3 should be good. I am not a gamer, so an i5 is probably over kill but how low can I go, without problems?

I plan to replace my TV, may go 3D, so I imagine, Blu-ray quality 3D video, would be the most demanding thing I would do (from file/stream, not disc player). Can an Intel Core 4th Gen i3 with Intel HD Integrated Graphics 4400 handle that?

Whenever I try to search processors/graphics everything seems to be about games. I'd like to hear more about what people are using in their HTPC's for playback/streaming of HD audio/video and their experience, problems. I'd rather be over-powered than under-powered - i.e. rather have something play then not.

So, could people chime-in with what they are running and their success or problems playing different material?
happy2Lurk is offline  
post #785 of 799 Old 05-22-2014, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 164

Windows 8 doesn't support old school extenders. Of which personally I'd avoid anyway. Outside of that WMC is virtually identical as the only other difference I can think of off the top of my head is Windows 8 missing the option to boot into WMC. I simply prefer the Windows 8 overall interface. CPU wise WMC will run nicely on almost any hardware. For 3D playback the video card or the chip's internal video drivers come into play. I think the new i3 and i5 chips share the same video. My i3 is the 4600 and if I remember the i5 is as well. Anyway CPU power doesn't really come into play. For 3D the player will however as XBMC only supports a few formats and you'll have to purchase a player to view all of the available 3D formats.

Charles R is offline  
post #786 of 799 Old 05-22-2014, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2Lurk View Post

mdavej, do you have personal experience with both win7 & 8pro running wmc & xbmc?
Yep. I ran Win 8 for a few months with WMC and XBMC. I ultimately rolled back to Win 7 on my HTPC. I run Win 8 everywhere else. I never reboot, so a few seconds faster boot is not worth losing extender compatibility, among other things. My PC wakes in about 5 seconds under Win 7 anyway, far faster than my TV powers up. If I go temporarily insane and want the Fisher Price interface on Win 8, I've got a dozen other devices I can use for that. If I want 100% compatibility with all extenders, WMC add-ons, add-ins, etc., I'm sticking with Win 7.

XBMC is not for me. Copy protected content doesn't work, and I simply don't find the interface very intuitive or attractive. If I were OTA only, I'd probably give it another look.

Charles and I take completely different approaches because we have different requirements and desires to tinker. I want the shortest, cheapest path to live an recorded TV in 5 rooms. I want simple, small, quiet efficient boxes in each room with a common interface, effortless setup, low price and above all, ability to stream copy protected content everywhere. XBMC only meets some of those requirements. Extenders meet all of them. They may not meet your requirements though.

I can't really speak for Charles, but I gather he enjoys putting together all those little NUC boxes and wants to do quite a bit more than live and recorded TV and has no copy protection issues to deal with.

Bottom line is it all depends on your goals and time, effort and money you're willing to put in. I can buy an Echo off the shelf and have it up and running in about 2 minutes. No assembly required.

Sounds like you value future proofing above all else and have no desire to use extenders. So Win 8 will be fine for you, as will PCs at every node. I'll move off Win 7 only when absolutely necessary 6 or 7 years from now, if I still have cable then. For the foreseeable future, I'll keep what I've got.
mdavej is offline  
post #787 of 799 Old 05-22-2014, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Charles and I take completely different approaches because we have different requirements and desires to tinker.


Yeah. I'm OTA only and worse case three or four displays (if you count the exercise room) and only one that gets used daily. If I had more of a traditional installation I'd go TiVo since they introduced the Minis. For me WMC costs virtually nothing and hasn't given me a reason to punt. In my second viewing area (that's never used) I want/need a PC there anyway for HD file playback. So I get WMC in there for free as well. I could put a dedicated streamer that supports HD audio/video in there but it wouldn't be much less than a PC and I'd still need an extender if I want to watch TV.

 

The exercise room currently has the Xbox E that's allocated for the Hearth room if we ever get a TV in there...  since it's currently collecting dust I'll move it in there if the need arises. It just plays a few exercise DVDs so a low-end media player would more than do when the time comes.

Charles R is offline  
post #788 of 799 Old 05-23-2014, 04:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 4,145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 151
The software may have cost you nothing, but the hardware...
slowbiscuit is offline  
post #789 of 799 Old 05-23-2014, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

The software may have cost you nothing, but the hardware...

 

I think you missed the point. :) In my Den I use a desktop 99% of the day. Outside of the tuners I already have the hardware. In the theater I already have a PC for movie playback...

 

It's posted along the way... full disclosure.

 

  • $120 - Four tuners
  • $0 - NAS storage already is use
  • $0 - IR receivers already in use
  • $0 - Two computers already is use
  • $99 - Xbox E 360 (currently should be listed as $0 since it's used for exercise videos)
  • $0 - Several Media Center licenses for Windows 8 (available back in the day)
  • $0 - Windows 8 Pro upgrade (vendor rebate)
Charles R is offline  
post #790 of 799 Old 05-25-2014, 08:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mhufnagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I think you missed the point. smile.gif  In my Den I use a desktop 99% of the day. Outside of the tuners I already have the hardware. In the theater I already have a PC for movie playback...

It's posted along the way... full disclosure.
  • $120 - Four tuners
  • $0 - NAS storage already is use
  • $0 - IR receivers already in use
  • $0 - Two computers already is use
  • $99 - Xbox E 360 (currently should be listed as $0 since it's used for exercise videos)
  • $0 - Several Media Center licenses for Windows 8 (available back in the day)
  • $0 - Windows 8 Pro upgrade (vendor rebate)
Hey, I love my HTPC and all, but you're answer is cheating a bit. wink.gif But I'm a hobbyist myself and have multiple pc's, EHD's, coax splitters, ethernet switches, etc. too. So your costs are about the same as mine.

Now how about what it would cost doing your set-up for a person who only has one weak desktop or laptop in the house and needed to start from scratch. I myself would replace one pc for another Xbox 360 (which can be found cheap on craigslist all of the time now) as an extender.
mhufnagel is offline  
post #791 of 799 Old 05-25-2014, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post


Hey, I love my HTPC and all, but you're answer is cheating a bit.

 

I didn't cheat one penny. Nor did I state what anyone's else cost would be... for that matter I didn't even recommend a course or solution for anyone. I think you missed the For me...:) Of course everyone is different. That's why it's good is see what other people are doing versus someone stating what they should do per se.

 

If you read the post that generated that response you'll see I already stated what I would probably do if I was starting from scratch with a more traditional installation... but again that's just me. Regarding your person with only a weak desktop or laptop I'd need to know untold details and charge a rather large consulting fee to come up with a valid solution. :) 

Charles R is offline  
post #792 of 799 Old 06-09-2014, 11:57 AM
Member
 
bowenap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
It would seem that Windows Media Center doesn't play nicely with browsers as far as sound goes. While watching a sporting event over the weekend, I got tired of the commentary, so I decided to turn WMC's volume all the way down and have Pandora play music out of Google Chrome instead. However, the browser's sound refused to play anything while Windows Media Center was on. Thought that was weird (and disappointing). This happened regardless of whether I turned Chrome/Pandora or Windows Media Center first.
bowenap is offline  
post #793 of 799 Old 06-09-2014, 12:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowenap View Post

It would seem that Windows Media Center doesn't play nicely with browsers as far as sound goes. While watching a sporting event over the weekend, I got tired of the commentary, so I decided to turn WMC's volume all the way down and have Pandora play music out of Google Chrome instead. However, the browser's sound refused to play anything while Windows Media Center was on. Thought that was weird (and disappointing). This happened regardless of whether I turned Chrome/Pandora or Windows Media Center first.
In sound device settings, uncheck "allow devices exclusive control", then all will play simultaneously. This can cause other HDCP problems though, so just be aware of that.
mdavej is offline  
post #794 of 799 Old 06-09-2014, 12:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
plplplpl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bowenap View Post

It would seem that Windows Media Center doesn't play nicely with browsers as far as sound goes. While watching a sporting event over the weekend, I got tired of the commentary, so I decided to turn WMC's volume all the way down and have Pandora play music out of Google Chrome instead. However, the browser's sound refused to play anything while Windows Media Center was on. Thought that was weird (and disappointing). This happened regardless of whether I turned Chrome/Pandora or Windows Media Center first.
In sound device settings, uncheck "allow devices exclusive control", then all will play simultaneously. This can cause other HDCP problems though, so just be aware of that.

Where does this setting reside?
plplplpl is offline  
post #795 of 799 Old 06-09-2014, 01:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by plplplpl View Post

Where does this setting reside?
IIRC, click the speaker in the tray, then at the top of the popup, then the advanced tab.
mdavej is offline  
post #796 of 799 Old 06-20-2014, 05:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Davidt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The HDHomerun QuickTV shows more channels than WMC does. How do I get WMC to show the same channels? Thanks.
Davidt1 is offline  
post #797 of 799 Old 06-20-2014, 05:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 279
^^^
Run TV setup again in WMC and pick the appropriate lineup.
mdavej is offline  
post #798 of 799 Old 06-20-2014, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Charles R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 9,767
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
^^^
Run TV setup again in WMC and pick the appropriate lineup.
I have to use a different zip code. If I use my actual zip code I don't get the correct channels. So you can try adjacent zip codes to see if that helps.
Charles R is offline  
post #799 of 799 Old 06-20-2014, 06:29 AM
Member
 
bowenap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cheektowaga, NY
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 13
It's interesting how much a different zip code makes a difference, even if it's one that's merely a 20 minute drive away. Here in Buffalo, it gets especially tricky with Canadian channels, although my current zip code has the guide listings for every channel I watch except for one.

EDIT: if there are any Canadians or people that live on US border cities that are looking at this thread, here's a good link for a workaround:

http://pnear.wordpress.com/2011/04/2...edia-center-2/

Last edited by bowenap; 06-20-2014 at 09:58 AM.
bowenap is offline  
Reply HDTV Recorders

Tags
Tivo , wmc

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off