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post #811 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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It's mostly a matter of the interface and MS trying to force the use of a tablet/phone UI on a business desktop. That is pretty much why business has rejected Win 8 and sticking with Win-7 which still holds 50% of the OS market.
I don't think they have rejected it per se rather they find little reason to upgrade. As far as the actual interface I think it's more a mindset than actual issue. After an hour or two you would be hard pressed to take more than a minute or two tops per day via the differences. I happen to use both versions on a regular basis and find them 98% identical and the other 2% I favor Windows 8.1. Of course there are always exceptions or people think there are...
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post #812 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 10:18 AM
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If you drop out of Metro into Desktop, sure. But my MegaCorp is now rolling out Win7 and has absolutely no plans to go 8. And this is not uncommon.
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post #813 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 10:22 AM
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I don't think they have rejected it per se rather they find little reason to upgrade.
That is basically the same thing. Business will skip Win-8 the way they skipped Vista.

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post #814 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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But my MegaCorp is now rolling out Win7 and has absolutely no plans to go 8.
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That is basically the same thing. Business will skip Win-8 the way they skipped Vista.
Business wise it makes perfect sense... Lower expenses all around outside of licensing which appears to be similar. Additional support, upgrades and whatnot why bother...

To a large degree Microsoft is damned if they do and damned if they don't... change too little and there is no reason to upgrade. Change too much and there are plenty of reasons not to upgrade. At the same time looking at the numbers Windows 8 is doing rather well for itself...

Microsoft recently released data that showed that it had sold over 200 million Windows 8 licenses. Windows 8 is now about 19 months old since its release in August 2012. By the time Windows 7 had been in the market that long, Microsoft had managed to sell 240 million licenses for the OS. But let's not forget that PC sales have been steadily declining, with shipments falling a jaw-dropping 10.3% last year. Most Windows OS purchases are tied to new PC purchases.

During the period that Microsoft sold 240 million Windows 7 licenses, 350 million PCs were shipped worldwide. That works out to about 68 licenses for every 100 PCs sold. In comparison, 314 million PCs were sold during the period that Microsoft sold 200 million Windows 8 licenses. That works out to 63 licenses for every 100 PCs sold. While that might not be on an equal footing with Windows 7, it's much better than the 55 licenses per 100 PCs for Windows XP, or 37 PCs for every 100 PCs sold that Windows Vista recorded, in a similar time span.
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post #815 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 04:50 PM
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If they change for the better, many would be compelled to upgrade. Works for everything from cars to smartphones. Win 8 changed for the worst, confusing and alienating their shrinking user based hoping to take on IOS and Android. It didn't work. So time to clean up the mess they made and release something people actually want to buy,
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post #816 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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It didn't work.
Based on the numbers is has worked rather well. Far better than several generations.
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post #817 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 06:01 PM
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It's working so well that Microsoft is laying off 18 000 workers. Note to self: don't buy a massive company with jobs redundant to those of the parent company.
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post #818 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 07:16 PM
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Based on the numbers is has worked rather well. Far better than several generations.
I wouldn't exactly call Windows Phone 3% market share a roaring success. And grabbing phone and tablet market share is why Win 8 exists. It's a slap in the face to desktop users. It's unusable on the desktop without 3rd party tools and awkward workarounds.

But I realize of course that resistance is futile, so I hold my nose and use the steaming pile of sh1t that is Win 8 on all my PC's except for my main HTPC.
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post #819 of 825 Old 07-25-2014, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a slap in the face to desktop users. It's unusable on the desktop without 3rd party tools and awkward workarounds.
This is what I disagree with... I don't see the big deal aspect. I went from OS X to Windows 8 Beta. Now I tweak my wife's laptop (Windows 7) at times and I live 24/7 with Windows Servers. And recently I have had various Windows 7 and 8 PCs wander by and (for me) realistically I just don't see the difference. Worse case I would loss or gain a minute a day using one or the other.

Now I understand if x app isn't supported or whatnot but that seems rare, much rarer than in the past. Sure Windows 8 hasn't taken over the world but if you simply go by its adoption rate (we are talking PCs) its numbers are pretty good. My biggest complaint would be that's its too similar to 7.
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post #820 of 825 Old 07-26-2014, 06:17 AM
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Too similar to 7? LOL, my parents want some of what you're smoking. They got stuck with 8 on a new laptop and immediately wanted our help to get out of Metro. Permanently.

And don't even get me started on MS constantly trying to force you to use online accounts to login instead of local.

Looks like we're well on our way to OT'ing this into another 'let's trash Win8' thread.

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post #821 of 825 Old 07-26-2014, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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They got stuck with 8 on a new laptop and immediately wanted our help to get out of Metro. Permanently.
That takes about 10 seconds (to change permanently).

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And don't even get me started on MS constantly trying to force you to use online accounts to login instead of local.
Can't see the harm of online accounts and can see many advantages. Not sure how I would get along without my Google account transferring "me" from PC to PC. All of my HTPCs are local account only.

Again it's this "trying to force you"... emotional baggage over reality.

Now I do agree with you 100% as to the thread heading towards a typical HTPC forum thread.... hopefully it won't go there.

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post #822 of 825 Old 07-26-2014, 09:52 AM
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That takes about 10 seconds (to change permanently).



Can't see the harm of online accounts and can see many advantages. Not sure how I would get along without my Google account transferring "me" from PC to PC. All of my HTPCs are local account only.

Again it's this "trying to force you"... emotional baggage over reality.

Now I do agree with you 100% as to the thread heading towards a typical HTPC forum thread.... hopefully it won't go there.
You couldn't boot to desktop without a 3rd party tool until 8.1. Even then, the option is very well hidden. I guarantee you Grandma would never find it on her own. Plus if you accidentally click charms, you're back in Metro land, like it or not.

As for the online account, you are also forced to do that when you install the OS. MS makes it quite difficult to get around. Again, not something your average user could avoid or even know it was possible to change. Nothing emotional about it. Those are the facts.

Whether or not online accounts have advantages, you're still pretty much forced to have one with Win 8.1 upon install whether you want one or not. I personally don't want all my personal stuff in the cloud where I have no control over it and privacy is out the window.

Sure computer savvy users can get around a lot of this with enough time and research, but it shouldn't have to be this way. Such options should be just that - options, and should be intuitively obvious to change. There's nothing intuitive or logical about Win 8. If you like it, that's wonderful. You've avoided much of the stress and frustration many of us have over Win 8. To me, it's the worst OS I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot in my close to 30 year career in computing.

As for similarity with Win 7. I don't care if it's similar or not, as long as it's an improvement and doesn't throw everything I've learned about operating Windows for the past 30 years. Going from a simple cascading menu to an unorganized wall of unreadable text, meaningless icons and wasted space is not an improvement. Removing mouse navigation and requiring text searching for apps is not an improvement. What is this, 1970 again? A parallel Fisher Price interface with almost no keyboard/mouse navigation and a fraction of the functionality of the desktop is not an improvement. Hiding common functions like shutdown is not an improvement. Win 8 is several huge steps backwards in terms of usability and looks. I had no problem adapting to Android or iOS coming from Windows CE. It was totally different, but in a good way, and more intuitive.

For some reason, different, no matter how truly awful, is considered better. And an unwillingness to accept its awfulness makes you "unable to adapt to change". Just because I refuse to "adapt" to the latest terrible product shoved down my throat doesn't make me a moron, quite the contrary. And I think it's hypocritical to accuse others of not accepting change when many of the accusers don't use Metro either, like Microsoft wants all of us to. If Metro is so wonderful, then use it 100% of the time. Don't bother with the antiquated desktop at all. Let me know how that works out.

Win 8 doesn't "hurt my feelings". It simply makes my jaw drop in disbelief that so many smart people at Microsoft could make so many terrible design decisions and expect the general public to accept the mess they've created.
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post #823 of 825 Old 07-26-2014, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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And an unwillingness to accept its awfulness makes you "unable to adapt to change". Just because I refuse to "adapt" to the latest terrible product shoved down my throat doesn't make me a moron, quite the contrary.
You can nitpick all you want. Such as create a "silly" online account when you install then create a "real" account afterwards and your life goes on... oh the grief. However as shown (posted above) it's all to do with emotions... my personal stuff... worse OS I have ever seen... shoved down my throat... those aren't personal at all. Sorry, but such rants belong in the HTPC forum. And as such not worth addressing further.
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post #824 of 825 Old 07-26-2014, 10:58 AM
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I agree this doesn't belong in the thread. But the phrases I used are factual, not emotional. I'd be happy to make a chart comparing various OSes and quantifying the quality of each, best to worst. Likewise I'd be happy to quantify what constitutes having something shoved down one's throat as well as the very real threat to privacy the cloud is.

There, I'm done.
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post #825 of 825 Old 07-26-2014, 12:02 PM
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Win 8 doesn't "hurt my feelings". It simply makes my jaw drop in disbelief that so many smart people at Microsoft could make so many terrible design decisions and expect the general public to accept the mess they've created.
And, as the mess that was Vista was "fixed" with Win-7, the mess that is Win-8 will be "fixed" with Win-9 that tosses Metro. The MS play with Win-8 was to force Metro adoption on the desktop so everyone would be familiar with the touch-screen UI and run to MS tablets and phones when it came time to buy them. I like your description of Metro as a Fisher-Price UI. MS is slowly coming to the realization that their OS monopoly is breaking and they have been effectively shut out of the tablet and phone market -- the 15,000 people to be laid off will probably come primarily from the Nokia phone division they bought and watched go belly up. Their focus is coming back to the desktop with Win-9 but there are still those at MS who still believe that Windows can take over the world and will probably make another bone-headed play for it with Win-10. MS stock peaked in 2000 then lost half it's value the next year and stayed flat for a decade. It is no longer the money making machine it used to be and a new generation of managers desperately want to become billionaires like their predecessors.

This was my contribution to the OT string of posts. I promise to not continue it.

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