Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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It's mostly a matter of the interface and MS trying to force the use of a tablet/phone UI on a business desktop. That is pretty much why business has rejected Win 8 and sticking with Win-7 which still holds 50% of the OS market.
I don't think they have rejected it per se rather they find little reason to upgrade. As far as the actual interface I think it's more a mindset than actual issue. After an hour or two you would be hard pressed to take more than a minute or two tops per day via the differences. I happen to use both versions on a regular basis and find them 98% identical and the other 2% I favor Windows 8.1. Of course there are always exceptions or people think there are...

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post #812 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 10:18 AM
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If you drop out of Metro into Desktop, sure. But my MegaCorp is now rolling out Win7 and has absolutely no plans to go 8. And this is not uncommon.
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post #813 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 10:22 AM
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I don't think they have rejected it per se rather they find little reason to upgrade.
That is basically the same thing. Business will skip Win-8 the way they skipped Vista.

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post #814 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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But my MegaCorp is now rolling out Win7 and has absolutely no plans to go 8.
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That is basically the same thing. Business will skip Win-8 the way they skipped Vista.
Business wise it makes perfect sense... Lower expenses all around outside of licensing which appears to be similar. Additional support, upgrades and whatnot why bother...

To a large degree Microsoft is damned if they do and damned if they don't... change too little and there is no reason to upgrade. Change too much and there are plenty of reasons not to upgrade. At the same time looking at the numbers Windows 8 is doing rather well for itself...

Microsoft recently released data that showed that it had sold over 200 million Windows 8 licenses. Windows 8 is now about 19 months old since its release in August 2012. By the time Windows 7 had been in the market that long, Microsoft had managed to sell 240 million licenses for the OS. But let's not forget that PC sales have been steadily declining, with shipments falling a jaw-dropping 10.3% last year. Most Windows OS purchases are tied to new PC purchases.

During the period that Microsoft sold 240 million Windows 7 licenses, 350 million PCs were shipped worldwide. That works out to about 68 licenses for every 100 PCs sold. In comparison, 314 million PCs were sold during the period that Microsoft sold 200 million Windows 8 licenses. That works out to 63 licenses for every 100 PCs sold. While that might not be on an equal footing with Windows 7, it's much better than the 55 licenses per 100 PCs for Windows XP, or 37 PCs for every 100 PCs sold that Windows Vista recorded, in a similar time span.

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post #815 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 04:50 PM
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If they change for the better, many would be compelled to upgrade. Works for everything from cars to smartphones. Win 8 changed for the worst, confusing and alienating their shrinking user based hoping to take on IOS and Android. It didn't work. So time to clean up the mess they made and release something people actually want to buy,
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post #816 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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It didn't work.
Based on the numbers is has worked rather well. Far better than several generations.

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post #817 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 06:01 PM
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It's working so well that Microsoft is laying off 18 000 workers. Note to self: don't buy a massive company with jobs redundant to those of the parent company.
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post #818 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 07:16 PM
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Based on the numbers is has worked rather well. Far better than several generations.
I wouldn't exactly call Windows Phone 3% market share a roaring success. And grabbing phone and tablet market share is why Win 8 exists. It's a slap in the face to desktop users. It's unusable on the desktop without 3rd party tools and awkward workarounds.

But I realize of course that resistance is futile, so I hold my nose and use the steaming pile of sh1t that is Win 8 on all my PC's except for my main HTPC.


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post #819 of 912 Old 07-25-2014, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a slap in the face to desktop users. It's unusable on the desktop without 3rd party tools and awkward workarounds.
This is what I disagree with... I don't see the big deal aspect. I went from OS X to Windows 8 Beta. Now I tweak my wife's laptop (Windows 7) at times and I live 24/7 with Windows Servers. And recently I have had various Windows 7 and 8 PCs wander by and (for me) realistically I just don't see the difference. Worse case I would loss or gain a minute a day using one or the other.

Now I understand if x app isn't supported or whatnot but that seems rare, much rarer than in the past. Sure Windows 8 hasn't taken over the world but if you simply go by its adoption rate (we are talking PCs) its numbers are pretty good. My biggest complaint would be that's its too similar to 7.

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post #820 of 912 Old 07-26-2014, 06:17 AM
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Too similar to 7? LOL, my parents want some of what you're smoking. They got stuck with 8 on a new laptop and immediately wanted our help to get out of Metro. Permanently.

And don't even get me started on MS constantly trying to force you to use online accounts to login instead of local.

Looks like we're well on our way to OT'ing this into another 'let's trash Win8' thread.

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post #821 of 912 Old 07-26-2014, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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They got stuck with 8 on a new laptop and immediately wanted our help to get out of Metro. Permanently.
That takes about 10 seconds (to change permanently).

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And don't even get me started on MS constantly trying to force you to use online accounts to login instead of local.
Can't see the harm of online accounts and can see many advantages. Not sure how I would get along without my Google account transferring "me" from PC to PC. All of my HTPCs are local account only.

Again it's this "trying to force you"... emotional baggage over reality.

Now I do agree with you 100% as to the thread heading towards a typical HTPC forum thread.... hopefully it won't go there.

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post #822 of 912 Old 07-26-2014, 09:52 AM
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That takes about 10 seconds (to change permanently).



Can't see the harm of online accounts and can see many advantages. Not sure how I would get along without my Google account transferring "me" from PC to PC. All of my HTPCs are local account only.

Again it's this "trying to force you"... emotional baggage over reality.

Now I do agree with you 100% as to the thread heading towards a typical HTPC forum thread.... hopefully it won't go there.
You couldn't boot to desktop without a 3rd party tool until 8.1. Even then, the option is very well hidden. I guarantee you Grandma would never find it on her own. Plus if you accidentally click charms, you're back in Metro land, like it or not.

As for the online account, you are also forced to do that when you install the OS. MS makes it quite difficult to get around. Again, not something your average user could avoid or even know it was possible to change. Nothing emotional about it. Those are the facts.

Whether or not online accounts have advantages, you're still pretty much forced to have one with Win 8.1 upon install whether you want one or not. I personally don't want all my personal stuff in the cloud where I have no control over it and privacy is out the window.

Sure computer savvy users can get around a lot of this with enough time and research, but it shouldn't have to be this way. Such options should be just that - options, and should be intuitively obvious to change. There's nothing intuitive or logical about Win 8. If you like it, that's wonderful. You've avoided much of the stress and frustration many of us have over Win 8. To me, it's the worst OS I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot in my close to 30 year career in computing.

As for similarity with Win 7. I don't care if it's similar or not, as long as it's an improvement and doesn't throw everything I've learned about operating Windows for the past 30 years. Going from a simple cascading menu to an unorganized wall of unreadable text, meaningless icons and wasted space is not an improvement. Removing mouse navigation and requiring text searching for apps is not an improvement. What is this, 1970 again? A parallel Fisher Price interface with almost no keyboard/mouse navigation and a fraction of the functionality of the desktop is not an improvement. Hiding common functions like shutdown is not an improvement. Win 8 is several huge steps backwards in terms of usability and looks. I had no problem adapting to Android or iOS coming from Windows CE. It was totally different, but in a good way, and more intuitive.

For some reason, different, no matter how truly awful, is considered better. And an unwillingness to accept its awfulness makes you "unable to adapt to change". Just because I refuse to "adapt" to the latest terrible product shoved down my throat doesn't make me a moron, quite the contrary. And I think it's hypocritical to accuse others of not accepting change when many of the accusers don't use Metro either, like Microsoft wants all of us to. If Metro is so wonderful, then use it 100% of the time. Don't bother with the antiquated desktop at all. Let me know how that works out.

Win 8 doesn't "hurt my feelings". It simply makes my jaw drop in disbelief that so many smart people at Microsoft could make so many terrible design decisions and expect the general public to accept the mess they've created.


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post #823 of 912 Old 07-26-2014, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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And an unwillingness to accept its awfulness makes you "unable to adapt to change". Just because I refuse to "adapt" to the latest terrible product shoved down my throat doesn't make me a moron, quite the contrary.
You can nitpick all you want. Such as create a "silly" online account when you install then create a "real" account afterwards and your life goes on... oh the grief. However as shown (posted above) it's all to do with emotions... my personal stuff... worse OS I have ever seen... shoved down my throat... those aren't personal at all. Sorry, but such rants belong in the HTPC forum. And as such not worth addressing further.

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post #824 of 912 Old 07-26-2014, 10:58 AM
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I agree this doesn't belong in the thread. But the phrases I used are factual, not emotional. I'd be happy to make a chart comparing various OSes and quantifying the quality of each, best to worst. Likewise I'd be happy to quantify what constitutes having something shoved down one's throat as well as the very real threat to privacy the cloud is.

There, I'm done.
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post #825 of 912 Old 07-26-2014, 12:02 PM
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Win 8 doesn't "hurt my feelings". It simply makes my jaw drop in disbelief that so many smart people at Microsoft could make so many terrible design decisions and expect the general public to accept the mess they've created.
And, as the mess that was Vista was "fixed" with Win-7, the mess that is Win-8 will be "fixed" with Win-9 that tosses Metro. The MS play with Win-8 was to force Metro adoption on the desktop so everyone would be familiar with the touch-screen UI and run to MS tablets and phones when it came time to buy them. I like your description of Metro as a Fisher-Price UI. MS is slowly coming to the realization that their OS monopoly is breaking and they have been effectively shut out of the tablet and phone market -- the 15,000 people to be laid off will probably come primarily from the Nokia phone division they bought and watched go belly up. Their focus is coming back to the desktop with Win-9 but there are still those at MS who still believe that Windows can take over the world and will probably make another bone-headed play for it with Win-10. MS stock peaked in 2000 then lost half it's value the next year and stayed flat for a decade. It is no longer the money making machine it used to be and a new generation of managers desperately want to become billionaires like their predecessors.

This was my contribution to the OT string of posts. I promise to not continue it.

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post #826 of 912 Old 08-04-2014, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a (Android) tablet I'm playing around with and does anyone have any experience with a nice app that controls Windows Media Center? I doubt I'd use to it any extent but I'm willing to try. It's software rooted so it's running 4.4.4 or greater and has a 1920x1280 screen if it matters... I know Ceton has one but for some unknown reason I'm not interested.

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post #827 of 912 Old 08-04-2014, 12:14 PM
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Ceton my media center works great on my iPhones. Website says android available.
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post #828 of 912 Old 08-04-2014, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Ceton my media center works great on my iPhones. Website says android available.
Sorry, I forgot to mention Ceton is out and added that tidbit to the post. I rather find something/someone I can donate to per se. Such as XBMC, WMCServer and such.

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post #829 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 05:58 AM
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I use Remote Potato in WMC with the Remote Media Center app on my phone/tablet and can stream anything remotely with a simple port forward in the router. You have to pay for the app if you want live TV or to download shows, I just stream with the free one. It can also schedule shows, manage recordings, let you see the guide etc. Not the prettiest app but it is functional.

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post #830 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I use Remote Potato in WMC with the Remote Media Center app on my phone/tablet and can stream anything remotely with a simple port forward in the router.
This looks interesting if I wish to stream to the tablet. However I'm looking for an app that could replace my Harmony (to a large degree). Although from past experience I haven't been impressed with "remote controls" via a tablet. For the most part they look rather pretty, fancy, slick or whatnot however in actual use end up being cumbersome, slow and frustrating.

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post #831 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 10:19 AM
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I don't see any use for them, personally. Way too cumbersome compared to remotes everywhere.
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post #832 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't see any use for them, personally. Way too cumbersome compared to remotes everywhere.
As posted I pretty much agree with you. Actually, based on my life style I can't really find a good use for a tablet although I keep looking. Now my wife is another story. I purchased her a Kindle quite a while back and almost nightly she'll lie down on the sofa and catch up with the world. Much better gift than I ever thought at the time.

My real interest is I now have a streamer in my dedicated room that I have to point the remote at (it's installed at the back of the room) since it won't bounce off the screen like most everything else I have used in the past.

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post #833 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 01:31 PM
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On Android, I've used Unified remote. It's very basic, but gets the job done in a pinch. It pales in comparison to iOS remotes like Hippo. I'd rather use an IR or RF remote any day. Have you considered an IR repeater or an upgrade to RF?

My favorite real RF remote is the Xsight Touch. They're running $30 on ebay right now and are very powerful programming wise. You'll have to add an RF base for a few bucks more.

If you want to do full on Harmony replacement, check out iRule. No matter what you do, avoid the Griffin Beacon at all costs.


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post #834 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 01:44 PM
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While "I get it" that part of this article is about Tivo Premier, keep in mind what they are doing to the Tivo-HD players. The hardware supports Mpeg-4 but Tivo refuses to port the software to the Tivo-HD. So now I'm watching my HD channels slowly disappear from Verizon. For me I have to go back and count up the cost, three Tivo-HD players, one lifetime subscription, two monthly subscriptions...you get the point. Yes, I will hold on until that HD channel my wife "has to have" is gone.

Was it worth it?

No one can predict the future, but for all of you "future" Tivo users, you should try...
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post #835 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 02:04 PM
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You can control WMC over IP with Roomie Remote and, I believe, an agent installed on the PC. But Roomie is for iOS only.

I just got a new super cheap laptop from Dell with Win 8.1 installed. Its not so bad as I poke around on it. Not happy to have to pay $10 to get WMC working on it though. Wish there was a trial so I could be sure I want to stick with 8.1 before I buy that WMC when I KNOW it works on the copy of Win 7 I could just install on the new laptop.

Charles are there any specific improvements that pertain to WMC for OTA HDhomerun viewing or for other media apps on Win 8.1 over Win 7?


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post #836 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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No one can predict the future, but for all of you "future" Tivo users, you should try...
I can predict the past and it seems forever since I sold my TiVo HD(s)... I saw the same thing when Netgear refused to support their new NAS OS on older hardware. For me I just don't see it. At some point in time they have to punt and perhaps I wish they would make a first down and keep the ball I certainly understand and would probably have gone the same.

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post #837 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
Charles are there any specific improvements that pertain to WMC for OTA HDhomerun viewing or for other media apps on Win 8.1 over Win 7?
Only disadvantage I know of 8.x (outside of possible cost) is the lack of support for older extenders. I have used 7 and 8.x rather extensively (close to a dozen PCs during two years) with WMC and much prefer 8.x. It's just much more stable as far as video and audio drivers (I use native Intel drivers). Especially if you are using dual HDMI outputs and tweak your hibernation settings to any degree. Windows 8.x has been much more solid for me in those areas.

As an example a while back I couldn't get Windows 7 to find my AV receiver regardless of what I did. Even to the point of uninstalling and re-installing the drivers. Admittedly I was using both HDMI outputs but OpenELEC and Windows 8.x has always handled it nicely. Now in the den at times (presumably based on how the various components are turned on) I have to switch inputs on my AV receiver to get audio when I wake up the PC. Not the case with 8.x...

Are you sure it's only $10? You need Pro before Media Center will install.

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Last edited by Charles R; 08-05-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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post #838 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 02:32 PM
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Ah you may be right... I haven't really even looked into the licensing. I was going off of what I "thought" I read months ago. I assume my OS that came with the laptop is 8.1 and NOT pro.


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post #839 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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My favorite real RF remote is the Xsight Touch. They're running $30 on ebay right now and are very powerful programming wise. You'll have to add an RF base for a few bucks more.
I presume you mean this guy... Acoustic Research ARRX18G? What base would you recommend? Programming wise I go back to the Pronto but hope to never return! Worse case learn the codes from the Harmony? I could live with that...

My current projector is iffy with my Harmony and doesn't support Ethernet control (Ethernet at all) so I'm open to going RF. I'll say I'm willing to throw $50 at it... worse case it ends up in the closet with the Pronto or the trash... pretty sure it won't be going back to China. My only issue might be where I locate the base... so the projector and the other devices pick up the IR. The image is outdated but the projector is located on top of the shelves and the equipment is currently in the lower right hand shelf. I do have an old RCA IR wireless extender but I'd prefer not to use it.
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Last edited by Charles R; 08-05-2014 at 04:50 PM.
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post #840 of 912 Old 08-05-2014, 05:05 PM
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^^^
Yep that's it. Look for "Xsight RF", ARRE433B or Nevo REX-433 base. Euro One-for-all version works, but I don't remember the model number. Here's one for $16:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-Res...-/111025198191

A new one in the box is supposed to come with 6 blasters, an antenna and a wall wart. So make sure whatever seller has all the parts.

You can now program all Xsight remotes with Remote Master, meaning you can create and load any conceivable codes (Pronto hex, JP1, whatever) without learning and without relying on a web site.

The base itself is also a powerful blaster. I guess in your case, I'd put the base either on top or inside and run a few blasters to each device or group of devices. Blaster cables are about 6' long. The wires are very thin, and the blasters very small.

Keep in mind, the Touch was $250 new and the base another $100. So this is a smokin' deal. That's why I have about 6 of them right now (don't tell my wife).


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Last edited by mdavej; 08-05-2014 at 05:08 PM.
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