Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 1061 Old 02-25-2015, 05:23 PM
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Charles R, first off thanks for this very informative thread. I just finished reading from the beginning. When I started all I knew for sure was that I wanted to cut the cord with cable. I had just received another cost increase and The wife and I decided that it was time. Beside most of what we watch is available OTA. The biggest reason we stayed was the DVR. A couple of years ago I bought a Magnavox DVR DVD recorder and thought it was the solution but it is a pain to program and does not have a guide. I looked at Channelmaster DVR+, TIVO, and WMC on a computer. After much research I decided to do the HTPC with WMC. Originally I was going to build one But last week while looking through Ebay I ran across a used one built buy a company called Stream server Labs. I did some research on them and it looks like they build a good product. Since it was a good price I bought it. When I went to pay for it I found out that they were the ones who had listed it on Ebay. I called them and was able to get all of the info on it. It was used as an in store demo unit. Came with a Intel Core i7-2600 3.4QHz quad core processor
Intel H67 Chipset, Intel HD Graphics with DVI-I and HDMI HD outputs, 10 Channel Audio (7.1 + 2), 4GB DDR3-1333 RAM, (1) 500 GB SATA Hard-drive ,(8) USB 2.0 ports, (1) Back panel eSata port, (1) Blu-ray player, (1) Gigabit 10//100/1000 LAN port, Windows 7 Home Premium (as installed by OEM, you will receive the "recover" disk as well). Premium HTPC case with iMon Display and Remote Control
Premium Antec Earth-watts power supply. HTPC Keyboard. I ordered a HD Homerun Connect from Amazon so when the computer comes in I will be all set. After I get it all set up and working properly for the wife I plan on adding a second HD Homerun tuner. I am sure that I will be looking for advice as I proceed. I plan on adding a 2TB HD to it down the road so I can migrate my DVD copies to it. My goal is using it as a replacement for the Cable Co. DVR It will not get used as a PC. Any suggestions to get started?
Thanks
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post #992 of 1061 Old 02-25-2015, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maynard View Post
Any suggestions to get started?
My only comment/suggestion is that PC is roughly a thousand times more powerful than you actually need. If you are going to dedicate it to WMC even an i3 is overkill (I use one of the older generation i3s for several years now without any issue).

For WMC to feel like an appliance (standalone) be sure to...
  • Have it boot into WMC (when you are first playing around it's a pain so don't select this option until you are fairly squared away).
  • Use a universal remote to control all of your equipment (including WMC).
  • Be conservative with your power management in the beginning (it can be tricky getting hibernation and sleep to work - once configured they work like a champ).
  • Set your Display to Television - this gives you 1:1 pixels (no scaling).

If and when you run into any issues let us know. Good luck...

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post #993 of 1061 Old 02-25-2015, 07:00 PM
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Charles, thanks for the reply, I realize that it is overkill for my needs but the price was right, and I wanted use it in my media center and this unit will fit right in with my other components. I priced the components to build a Core i3 unit in a HTPC case and it would have cost much more than I paid for this one. My biggest concern at this time is the WAF. I need this to be as easy to use as the DVR we are using from the Cable provider. I have a URC MX-850 remote that I have set up to control my system using macros so that should help quite a bit. Will update you when I receive it and get started. I will probably start my own thread so yours does not get hijacked.
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post #994 of 1061 Old 02-25-2015, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1maynard View Post
I will probably start my own thread so yours does not get hijacked.
I'll gladly give you this one. At this point everything has been repeated x times and it has no real value... and a good hijack can be interesting.

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post #995 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Also, at least two of those streaming services, Netflix and Amazon will output 1080p/24 as well which is really nice for those who can use that format natively. I believe Vudu might also output 1080p/24, haven't used it in awhile though.
But wait! If it can't do everything else that a PC can do (even if you don't care about that stuff), you're making sacrifices! The horror!
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post #996 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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For some unknown reason a few people think all PCs are big, power hungry and aren't cute... well nothing could be further from the truth. Even though it's hidden in my electronic closet I still like cute especially at Fry's $119. Use as a WMC extender is covered in the thread linked to in my signature.
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post #997 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:13 PM
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That's interesting since it's impossible to use any PC of any kind as a WMC extender.
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post #998 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
That's interesting since it's impossible to use any PC of any kind as a WMC extender.
You didn't include the Asterisk which doesn't affect us OTAers.

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post #999 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:19 PM
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I don't have a problem with PCs as DVRs, and I know they can be very small, I use a PC to stream all sorts of content to my main system via my Oppo BDP. As far as a DVR, TiVo is just simpler to use and adds more features all the time.

Plus, hasn't Microsoft already dropped support for WMC? Will WMC even work in Win10, with CableCARD support? WMC only makes sense for me(I use it to view Comcast cable on my PC) as long as it can record encrypted content, otherwise it's useless.
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post #1000 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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On another related topic here's what will probably replace my Windows 8.1 WMC PC (server). Either via virtualization and Windows 7 or DVBLogic. It is on its way and DVBLink works great on another NAS I have been testing.




It comes with HDMI, 4 LAN ports (for virtualization) and other goodies.

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post #1001 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
You didn't include the Asterisk which doesn't affect us OTAers.
Doesn't matter. A remote WMC session that an extender runs isn't possible to run on a PC. Whatever you're doing isn't what an extender does. Incorrectly using that term to describe your clients only confuses people.
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post #1002 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Doesn't matter.
Sure it does. It offers me (and many others) 100% of what you like to call an extender. If you want to play Semantics feel free to keep posting.

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post #1003 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:45 PM
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It's not what I "like" to call an extender. It's what a Windows Media Center Extender is. Using the wrong word entirely isn't a matter of semantics. It's a matter of being wrong.

I can go all day.
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post #1004 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Incorrectly using that term to describe your clients only confuses people.
More so invites them to see if it's a solution based on their needs. Never saw where Microsoft has a trademark on extender.

The only people confused are those who think they are adding value by whining.

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post #1005 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
More so invites them to see if it's a solution based on their needs

The only people confused are those who think they are adding value by whining.
Yes, my mission in life is to "add value" to your thread. So I'm calling you out on yet another blatantly false post. If you want fewer whiners, stop posting misinformation.
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post #1006 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sorry they don't whine about misinformation. Rather what their tunnel vision won't allow them to see. And you can't stop that. That's why they post endlessly. They are always in the dark.

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post #1007 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
It's what a Windows Media Center Extender is.
Based on the usage of terms to this point, it has been my understanding that a Win-7 WMC extender was limited to either an XBox360 or Ceton Echo and provided a function analogous to a TiVo Mini -- remote access and control of the main WMC PC.

Is this not the case?

I would not consider a media player that simply accesses and plays the recorded content on the WMC server to be an extender -- just another player. I would expect an extender to provide an extension of the WMC interface and provide control -- such as scheduling recordings from the guide.

If limited to OTA, are there now additional boxes that can function as WMC extenders that provide both access and control?

- kelson h

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post #1008 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I'm sorry they don't whine about misinformation. Rather what their tunnel vision won't allow them to see. And you can't stop that. That's why they post endlessly. They are always in the dark.
Ok, got it. Even though everyone in this thread has done or is currently doing exactly what you're doing with WMC and OpenELEC and all of that, they just don't see what you see. You must have superior intelligence and powers of perception. Sounds like those other posters aren't the only ones with tunnel vision.

I have a system very similar to yours and have a mix of clients (Pi's, PCs, etc.) and extenders (those are devices that run remote sessions of WMC like Echoes and Xboxes). Yet I'm not compelled to call every client device on my network an extender, just as I'm not compelled to call my motorcycle a car. They both have engines and wheels and get me from point A to point B. But they have enough differences such that the terms are not synonymous.
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post #1009 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
If limited to OTA, are there now additional boxes that can function as WMC extenders that provide both access and control?
These are posted all over the threads...
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post #1010 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:32 PM
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Unfortunately, my system displays thumbnail pics like those, the size of a dime when clicked on. Something to do with our firewall.

- kelson h

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post #1011 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Even though everyone in this thread has done or is currently doing exactly what you're doing with WMC and OpenELEC and all of that, they just don't see what you see.
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I would expect an extender to provide an extension of the WMC interface and provide control -- such as scheduling recordings from the guide.
Many certainly do.

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post #1012 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Unfortunately, my system displays thumbnail pics like those, the size of a dime when clicked on. Something to do with our firewall.



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post #1013 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 01:58 PM
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Kelson, your idea of what an extender "should" be is perfectly rational. But a Window Media Center Extender is a device that runs a remote session of WMC. There are thousands of devices that are "like" extenders in many ways. But that doesn't make them extenders. Call those devices anything you want. But "extender" is, at best, ambiguous, because extenders have unique capabilities that other devices do not have. Whether or not you need these unique capabilities is irrelevant. When you say "Windows Media Center Extender" that means one of these devices (straight from the wiki):

Ceton Echo
Xbox
HP x5400
Linksys WMCE54AG
D-Link DSM-750
HP MediaSmart Connect
HP MediaSmart HDTV
Linksys DMA2100
Linksys DMA2200
Niveus Media Extender
Samsung MediaLive Digital Media Extender

I use Kodi on some devices just like Charles does. It works beautifully. I have full access and control of all my live and recorded TV except for protected content. I highly recommend that sort of solution for any OTA user. But I do not call that solution a Windows Media Center Extender because it isn't in the list above and does not fit the definition of the term.

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post #1014 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Call those devices anything you want. But "extender" is, at best, ambiguous, because extenders have unique capabilities that other devices do not have.
Semantics 101 - open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations

Tunnel vision refusing to see more than one.

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post #1015 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
Semantics 101 - open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations

Tunnel vision refusing to see more than one.
If I feel that the word "pencil" should also mean "window", that's not a matter of semantics. That's insanity. If words can mean anything you want them to, how can we communicate? Everything becomes nonsense, like this thread.

I think I'll start my own thread on how to turn a PC into a cat, and by cat I mean multimedia client.
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post #1016 of 1061 Old 02-26-2015, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
If words can mean anything you want them to, how can we communicate?
You called it ambiguous (not me). So there is nothing further to communicate. And since you defined extender as such it's beyond silly to try and give it one definition.

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post #1017 of 1061 Old 02-27-2015, 11:04 PM
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I think I'll start my own thread on how to turn a PC into a cat, and by cat I mean multimedia client.
Could possibly be one of the funniest things I've read on AVS in a long time

If a "client" has all of the same functionality as an "extender" with regards to OTA as Charles has pointed out it does it really matter what you call it? Perhaps a non-MS certified extender?
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post #1018 of 1061 Old 02-28-2015, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps a non-MS certified extender?
It's really not the use of the word extender. If you read closely there are a couple of members "your thread" comments which is rather telling. As in it explains their actions or lack of actions. They can't help but take the bait. They have been in my ignore list for a while but I try to view "my thread" to be helpful. At this point it's more helpful not to so it's a complete ignore blackout. I have little patience for tunnel vision since the person can never see it or they wouldn't have it... useless to point it out.

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post #1019 of 1061 Old 02-28-2015, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
I'm sorry they don't whine about misinformation. Rather what their tunnel vision won't allow them to see. And you can't stop that. That's why they post endlessly. They are always in the dark.
What exactly are we in the dark about, Charles? I have a Tivo Roamio Plus with 3 Mini extenders that do EVERYTHING I want to do with TV in every room of my house. It's nice that you can do so much more with PCs if you really care about that stuff, but I don't (and I also ran a whole-home WMC setup with Xbox extenders until recently retiring it and ran Myth before that, so I know what I would be 'missing' with PCs).

So how does that give me tunnel vision again? That anyone that doesn't share your view that PCs are always better is just wrong? Because that's how you repeatedly come across in this thread when a Tivo whole-home solution is mentioned.

BTW I still use my PC as a pyTivo and Plex server for Tivo and mobile access to other video, so there's not a whole lot lost by giving up WMC. But that is a very minor set of features that I rarely use.

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post #1020 of 1061 Old 02-28-2015, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RTK View Post
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
I think I'll start my own thread on how to turn a PC into a cat, and by cat I mean multimedia client.
Could possibly be one of the funniest things I've read on AVS in a long time

If a "client" has all of the same functionality as an "extender" with regards to OTA as Charles has pointed out it does it really matter what you call it? Perhaps a non-MS certified extender?
Ok. Why not call it a Tivo then? Does all the same things in the limited context we've made.

Make your own Tivo. Does everything a Tivo does, except the one thing that defines a TiVo.
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