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post #1 of 11 Old 08-07-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all - first time poster looking for some advice...

We currently have DirectTV and CenturyLink/Qwest DSL Internet (and no land-line phone). We're not happy with our internet service and are considering switching to Cox (my girlfriend and I both play RT games with voice apps (Ventrilo/Skype) running). Our TV and Internet comes with a $15 bundle discount, but we can get a similar discount with Cox so we'd like to also switch to Cox TV.

However, all of our TV viewing is from recorded HD on our DVR (HR21-700), and from the research done so far we're concerned the Cox DVR won't work for us. Except for maybe 2-3 times a year, our current DVR has enough capacity for our needs. My guess is if we switch to Cox we'll be renting their SA Explorer 8300HD, which if it only has ~20 hours of HD capacity then we might not be happy with switching. We don't mind buying an external HD if we had to, but it appears that those aren't currently working correctly with their new software. I don't fully understand what the current situation is with Cox DVRs, so I think that's really where I need the help:

1. Is the 20-hr HD capacity on the 8300HD correct, and is this considered 'too small' by a lot of people? (We might be able to adjust how we record and watch our shows, but I'd like to retain our current level of recording convenience if possible.)

2. Can an external hard drive currently be added to a Cox 8300HD in Phoenix, without too much difficulty? (If so, any suggestions on what make/model hard drive?)

3. Are there other HD DVRs available from Cox Phoenix, that have larger storage capacity? What about the 8642HDC DVR - would that be large enough, is it available with their Preferred service without paying extra (beyond the normal $18.50 monthly rental)?

4. I'm not sure I'm asking all the right questions, so any advice based on our situation and needs is greatly appreciated.

The equivalent levels of TV and internet service cost roughly the same from both providers, but if we make the switch to Cox we're going to bump up to Cox's Premier internet service so our bill should be going up $10-15 for the better internet. If we're not able to switch the TV also, it means our bill will go up another $15-20 since we'll no longer have the bundle discount - and that's what we're trying to avoid if at all possible. The one-time cost of an external hard drive is no problem, since we save more than that during the first 6 months of reduced rates.

Okay I think that's everything - thanks in advance for your help!
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post #2 of 11 Old 08-08-2012, 05:15 AM
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Couple questions:
Do you want Multi-Room DVR?
Are you planning on getting a Cox land line?, I do not believe Cox gives a Bundle discount without all 3 services, at least not very large.

I am not familiar with Cox New customer Promos, You'll need to research. Some may come with a free DVR for 6mos, but you might get some sort of discount if you use a CableCARD instead.

I would start with Cox Preferred Internet, You can always upgrade, But you cannot downgrade without loosing any Bundle discount. Also if you get a promo rate or Price-Lock-Agreement, you cannot downgrade, without penalties.

I would go the CableCARD route with 1 TiVo Elite/XL4 or 2 TiVo Premieres or a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime and WMC Win7 PC DVR solution. Both TiVo and Ceton will have DVR Extenders later this year.

The largest DVR Cox has w/o thier Whole Home DVR service is 160GB 20Hrs.
  1. The SA 8300HD (silver DVR) can accept an Ext HDD up to 1TB, But I believe Cox is retiring these, and they are hard to find, they are also very old.
  2. The SA 8240HDC (silver DVR) can use an Ext HDD up to 1TB, But you will need to contact Cox via Facebook or Twitter and ask for the eSATA External DVR Expander "beta" firmware.
  3. The SA 8642HDC (black DVR) does not have a "beta" firmware, and cannot use an Ext HDD, It is only formatted to use 160GB 20Hrs w/o the Whole Home DVR service.

The Whole Home DVR service is an additional $10/mo. and $50-$80 install fee, with that you get an HD IPG, 500GB 75Hr, and access to the Plus Package channels, At last report you could not use an Ext HDD with the Whole Home DVR service (It does not play nice with the Client STBs), CoxAZ "may" offer the Whole Home DVR w/ 500GB, as a stand alone, without a Client STB, some markets do.

The Plus Package channels are FREE with a CableCARD, if you subscribe to the corresponding channel package, HBO, SHO, Starz, Cinemax.
Cox Phoenix Plus Package channels: http://ww2.cox.com/residential/arizona/tv/channel-lineup.cox#20

I currently have an SA 8240HDC w/ a 1TB eSATA Ext HDD, 2 TiVos and a SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime. I by far prefer the TiVo Premieres over the others.

Here is a price comparison between the Cox Whole Home DVR and TiVo Premieres.

Cox Whole Home DVR
1 DVR = 2-Recordable Tuners
1 HD Receiver
================================================
Storage 75Hrs, 500GB
Install - $49.99-$79.99
Plus Package HD channels - $10/mo
1 HD DVR 2-Tuners - $8.50/mo
DVR Service - $10/mo
1 HD Receiver - $8.50/mo
Total - $37/mo + $79.99 Install Fee

Cox Whole Home DVR
2 DVRs = 4-Recordable Tuners
================================================
Storage 75Hrs ea., 500GB ea. Total 150Hrs, 1TB
Install - $49.99-$79.99
Plus Package HD - $10/mo
1 HD DVR 2-Tuners - $8.50/mo
DVR Service - $10/mo
1 HD DVR 2-Tuners - $8.50/mo
DVR Service - $10/mo
Total - $47/mo + $79.99 Install Fee

2 TiVo Premiere DVRs (2 DVRs = 4-Recordable Tuners, recordings between Premieres can be streamed and shared between DVRs, and the upcoming Streaming IP-STB.
Purchase Price $49-$149ea (depending on model)
Storage 47-75Hrs ea., 320-500GB ea. (depending on model)
Self Installation - FREE
Plus Package HD channels – FREE
CableCARDs - $2/mo ea, = Total $4/mo
TiVo Monthly Service
1st TiVo - $14.99/mo
2nd TiVo - $12.99/mo
Total - $31.98/mo + Purchase Price $49-$149ea (depending on model)
TiVo Lifetime Service
(TiVos with Lifetime Service have a substantial Resale value, so that should be considered into the price of Lifetime)
1st TiVo - $499.99
2nd TiVo - $399.99
Total - $899.98
Total Divided by 24mos = $37.50/mo (no additional TiVo fees thereafter)
The TiVo Premiere replaces your cable DVR, You rent a CableCARD from Cox for $2.00/mo., instead of a DVR. TiVo cannot access Cox OnDemand if that is important, But it does have Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon VOD.

Cox Arizona uses SDV (Switched Digital Video) so Cox provides a free Tuning Adapter along with the CableCARD. Which is a box that sits between the TiVo and the cable. With a TiVo you get access to 25 more free HD channels called the Plus Package.

There are 4 Model TiVos to choose from; I recommend Amazon or Ebay for the TiVo purchase you will find the best prices there. Woot.com also often has TiVos on sale for a substantial discount. TiVo also sells refurbished units which are a good buy.
https://www3.tivo.com/store/home.do
http://www.tivo.com/products/home/index.html
https://www3.tivo.com/store/clearance.do

2 Tuner Premiere 45HR 320GB HDD $50-$99 (discontinued model)
2 Tuner Premiere 75HR 500GB HDD $99-$149 (New model)
Both the above models you can easily upgrade the internal HDD to 2TB 317HR HD
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968

2Tuner Premiere XL 150HR 1TB HDD $199-$249
4 Tuner Premiere Elite/XL4 317HR 2TB HDD $299-$399
TiVo service is a separate purchase from the hardware. You can purchase monthly for $14.99/mo or I recommend Lifetime service for $499.99 no monthly fees ever after that.

TiVo will have a Streaming IP-STB (Set-Top-Box) that can access both Live TV and Recordings from the Premieres later this year, for additional TVs. When this becomes available One TiVo 4-Tuner Elite/XL4 can serve as the Whole Home DVR without a need to purchase additional TiVo Premieres for secondary rooms.

Hope this helps, If you choose to go with the Cox SA 8240HDC and intend to use an Ext HDD, You want to get a WD Caviar Black series,
Here is the thread on my eSATA Ext HDD: http://www.avsforum.com/t/516559/8300hd-and-external-sata-it-works/7920#post_18091454

TiVo Roamio Pro, Premiere XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, TiVo Mini
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post #3 of 11 Old 08-08-2012, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Huge thanks for the reply. To your first questions:

Do you want Multi-Room DVR?
Haven't really considered this option, so my first thought is 'no'. We do all our TV watching on one HD TV in our Living Room. We also spend a lot of time on our 2 PCs in a bedroom-converted-to-'office'. In another (guest) bedroom is an old TV that never gets used, just takes up space really and we should just get rid of it smile.gif. So, might be convenient to access TV on our PCs, and would consider TV access in guest bedroom and even master bedroom, but probably not if there's any additional cost.

Are you planning on getting a Cox land line?, I do not believe Cox gives a Bundle discount without all 3 services, at least not very large.
No plans for a land line. The bundle discounts I could find don't quite make up for the cost of the land line, and we really just don't need it. If the after-discount cost for phone could get down to $5/mo we might consider it, but even as cheap as $10/mo I'm sure we'd just pass on phone. There's an option on their website to put together your own custom bundle, and I've mostly been playing with that for just TV and Internet, primarily looking at Preferred TV + Preferred Internet, or Preferred TV + Premier Internet. (http://ww2.cox.com/residential/bundles.cox and click on 'Build Your Own', w/ 85374 zip code)

You provided a lot of info on TiVo etc that was a bit overwhelming at first. I'm tech-capable enough - I've built my own and friend's PCs for the last 20 years, but every time I do I have to update myself on the current technology and product offerings. I'm even further out-of-date on home theater type stuff, so not insurmountable but I'd have some work cut out for me to get up-to-speed...

At first glance it appears that the 8240HDC with an Ext HDD would be perfect for us. We're planning on doing Netflix/Hulu for movies and old series', and the augmented DVR capacity would cover the current series' that we're watching. My girlfriend is an avid Colorado Avalanche fan, so as long as she has NBC Sports Network HD (ch 1069) she's happy. Of the 3 packs to choose from for the Preferred package we'd probably choose either the Variety or Movie Pak, but not sure we'd ever actually watch any of it. So do I understand things correctly, that we could do just Cox's Preferred TV (with either Preferred or Premier Internet) with the 8240HDC and an external HDD, plus Netflix (thru the Cox box?) and get pretty much what we were originally looking for? If so, I think that's probably the smart next-step for us, however...

You have definitely piqued my curiosity regarding these other options. Mostly about how we might get TV access on our PCs, but also to a lesser extent regarding TVs for the master and guest bedrooms. The bedrooms would surely require more cost than we're prepared for at this time, so that can safely be tabled for a later date. The PC access though, that is intriguing and I'll have to get a better understanding of what's involved and talk it over with the boss smile.gif. Ideally I'd like to get a good handle on two options: 1) the conversion from our current TV/Internet to Cox with sufficient DVR capacity + Netflix + probably a bump in internet speed, with an eye toward keeping costs down (I think this is captured in the prior paragraph, correct me if I'm wrong...), and 2) something a little sexier with TV access on our PCs.

Thanks again for all the info, and please fire back with any further thoughts!

P.S. Don't know if this factors in at all, but we also have: a Wii, an old Xbox, a Ring of Death'd Xbox 360, and a Blu-ray player.

Edit: The blu-ray is a Sony BDP-S370, so it looks like we can do Netflix thru either that or the Wii. We don't have internet at the TV now, sounds like I need some kind of hub there for all these devices.
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post #4 of 11 Old 08-13-2012, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Did a ton of research on TiVo and other DVR options, especially looking for feature-rich search and similar other functions. Really like the sound of TiVo, but it's so hard to justify such a huge cost for what amounts to just a search engine with a few fancy features. But that and HD are requirements for us, so...

Found a bunch of purported 'TiVo alternatives', but just doesn't seem like any of them approach even close to TiVo. The 2 most intriguing I found, and that will remain on my radar for the future, are:
* Roku - low one-time cost ($100 for HD, which is a must for us), easy, small form-factor, portable, etc. Roku's great, but doesn't have a record capability, which we conceded wasn't necessary if we would be able to actually transition our viewing habits to waiting till a series' season was released to DVD. One day this might happen, but not today. The clincher for the moment is that by recording what we want to see and deleting as we watch them, we always know where we're at in each series, and don't have to check each episode and 'find our place' again. This is a small thing I know, but for us at the moment we're looking for convenience. We're just starting out with streaming content, so maybe after we adjust to the 'new way', we might get rid of recording completely and Roku would take care of all our needs.
* MythTV - I really like this option, and can see us switching to it one day. A little DIY sounds exciting and fun, but I don't want to be on the bleeding edge. A lot of Myth sounds great and even a little superior to TiVo, but it's certainly not for the casual user. The stopper for now is primarily because HD still has it's problems (a steeper obstacle compared to SD apparently), in addition to the fact that we're just getting our feet wet here, and Myth would be one helluva first step. I really feel that something like this is where we'll end up one day, just don't know if that's in one year, or two, or more...

So we decided on TiVo and just plunging for the up-front cost, but the pucker-factor isn't too bad since (we hope) we can sell this within the next few years and get a big part of our investment back, if we ever choose to do so. We're going with the XL4 for the 4 tuners and integrated MoCa + Lifetime sub + 3 yr ext warranty, with the downside being we can't try out OTA with this unit. MoCa sounds awesome and really looking forward to trying it out, since we don't have ethernet wired to the living room and can't easily get it there, and have heard less-than-ideal feedback regarding streaming HD content over wireless, N or otherwise. Since the XL4 can be used as a bridge, this also gives us a LAN port in the living room for whatever (single unit or add a switch for multiples devices, Wii/Xbox/PS3/laptop/...). Also like the fact that 4 tuners are available, for those (admittedly rare) times when we need to record 2 shows while watching a 3rd.

About half of our shows we currently record would be available OTA, and the rest are on USA which as far as I know isn't available OTA - so we really struggled on deciding between the XL4 vs XL 2-tuner and scrapping cable. We might end up doing this anyway, again after we've adjusted our viewing habits to more streaming. Maybe OTA shows we will stay current with via DVR, and non-OTA shows we could just wait a season till they come out on Netflix/etc? Time will tell, and if we decide to do that, we're hoping we can sell the XL4 w/ Lifetime and buy an XL w/ Lifetime, and not get too eaten up by buying retail twice and selling off 1 used.

Anyway I thought I'd give a dump here of what we decided on for anyone else in a similar situation, and also air our thoughts for any feedback from the community regarding where we do and/or don't have a good assessment of things - please reply with any thoughts, it's much appreciated (and huge shout-out of thanks to Bryan_CoxPHX for your help!). Specifics of what we bought are below.

======

Bought from TiVo:
XL4 w/ Lifetime sub and 3 yr warranty, $966 incl tax (largely recoverable if we decide to sell later, we hope!)
Ethernet MoCa bridge $85 incl tax (will go in office at the modem/gateway, only need one since XL4 has integrated MoCa - would need 2 if we'd opted for XL instead of XL4)
POE filter $10 incl tax (for MoCa, will go prior to the coax splitter in our Master Bedroom closet, that feeds coax lines to the rest of the house)

Bought from Cox (prices good for 6 months, will reassess then and see if we wanna change hardware, if not then will call Cox to 'renegotiate'):
HSI Preferred $20/mo (really wanted Premiere since me and the girlfriend both game online with Ventrilo/Skype, but Cox has a smokin' hot promo right now so we'll give this a try and upgrade later if we have to)
Advanced TV $67/mo (bare minimum that includes HD, no discount here since they won't let you bundle 2 promo prices of course, darn...)
CableCARD $2/mo
Modem/Gateway $130 (will be either Cisco DPC3825 or Netgear CG3000D, don't know how they compare, we'll see which one the install tech shows up with. Shopped around but Cox's price wasn't bad, and I like that it's 'their product' so they can't play dumb if there are any problems.)

Will hit up Lowe's for a 2-GHz 4-way coax splitter to replace the 1-GHz one that came with the house, just to be on the safe side for the MoCa setup, and it's only ~$10.

Have about a week for everything to get here and setup, lemme know if I missed anything - thanks!
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post #5 of 11 Old 08-14-2012, 12:29 AM
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The TiVo XL4's MoCA network most likely will NOT pass through the Cisco SDV Tuning Adapter, so you will need a 2-way splitter before the TA, one Coax to feed the TA and one to feed the TiVo XL4. So make sure your signal strength from Cox at the TiVo is very strong. The XL4 needs very good signals, better than a regular Premiere. So make sure to ask when Cox installs what the actual signal level is in "dBmV". You want/need a signal greater than 0dBmV, to as high as 5 to 7dBmV. with SNR (Signal-to-Noise) greater than 30dB, 35 to 40dB would be better.

TiVo has a Signal Strength Meter, but it is a calculation of some sort based on 100%. Here you want to see all channels greater than 80, 85 to 95 would be better.

The following Tuning Adapter Install sheet from Cox is correct for the TiVo XL4, although I don't believe the POE filter is really needed at the Tuning Adapter, can't hurt though.
http://media.cox.com/support/print_media/tv/equipment/user_guides/cable_box/InstallingYourCiscoTA.pdf

Other TiVo's without the on-board MoCA can, and should just use the RF Pass-Through on the Tuning Adapter.

I do not use the MoCA myself, I am hardwired Ethernet, But I have no problem using Wireless N for the TiVo and HD streaming, between Premieres.

Set-up a profile at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php It will come in handy when you have questions.

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post #6 of 11 Old 08-14-2012, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Uh oh, klaxon's going off...Tuning Adapter?

Thanks for the head's up, I had no idea there was another box involved. I'll pick up another splitter when I'm at Lowe's to have on-hand come install time. And I'll also 'help' the installer with some signal strength questions - I'm sure he'll appreciate that smile.gif (Well, much better than him having to come out a second time...)
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post #7 of 11 Old 08-14-2012, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bku567 View Post

Modem/Gateway $130 (will be either Cisco DPC3825 or Netgear CG3000D, don't know how they compare, we'll see which one the install tech shows up with. Shopped around but Cox's price wasn't bad, and I like that it's 'their product' so they can't play dumb if there are any problems.)
I personally would not want the Cox Gateway. Both offered are Single Band 2.4GHz Wireless N Routers. (But your right then Cox has to support your WiFi, but what kind of support?)

I would ask for the Cisco DPC3010 Cable Modem ($79) and get a good, but reasonably priced Dual-Band 2.4/5GHz Gigabyte Wireless N Router.

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post #8 of 11 Old 08-14-2012, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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We don't really need N right now, only use one wireless device, my girlfriend's work laptop - and I'm not even sure it's N-capable but will check. However, I also don't want to pay full price for tech that's even slightly out-of-date, if I don't have to - so will cancel the purchase of the single-band gateway from Cox.

However, they only offer those 2 units for purchase thru Cox, so I will need to buy 3rd party. I'd still like to keep the component count down, so what do you think of the Motorola SBG6580 modem/gateway? It's on Cox's supported list and is dual band, so should be reasonably future-proof? The only other integrated modem/gateway on their approved list is the single-band Zoom 5350. If there's any concerns about the Motorola SBG6580 I won't hesitate at all to go with a discrete modem and gateway solution.

What else might you recommend, both integrated and discrete modem / gateway options?
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post #9 of 11 Old 08-14-2012, 06:06 PM
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Cox should have the Cisco DPC3010 Cable Modem ($79) at least they recently did at the Cox store, It is the latest standalone Cable Modem and is 8x4. I do know Cox is transitioning to all Gateways so maybe that is all the installers have on hand. Either way I would get the Cable Modem or Gateway from Cox. Make sure it is an 8x4 DOCSIS3 Modem or gateway. Drop by a Cox Store and ask what they have in stock.

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post #10 of 11 Old 08-17-2012, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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We picked up the Cisco DPC3010 at a Cox Store today. They were not aware that installers didn't have them available, but weren't too surprised as they also said Cox was transitioning to the all-in-one Gateways. He felt that the DPC3010 would continue to be available at the Store though for those customers that wanted separate modem and router.

So now I'm just not sure on what to do for router. The install is scheduled for Monday, and I'm planning on using an old WRT54G v3 I have. I'm just a little concerned since it's only 10/100, but I do feel good about having the discrete modem and the flexibility regarding router options for the future, if the WRT54G doesn't satisfy.

Thanks again for all the help!
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post #11 of 11 Old 08-17-2012, 02:15 AM
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I just saw this very reasonably priced VIZIO XWR100 Dual-Band 2.4/5Ghz, HD Wireless N Internet Router

Sale Price: $45.99
PC Pitstop Discount: ($10.00)
– must use promo code: PITSTOP1
Your Price: $35.99

http://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2012/08/09/hot-deal/?hotdeal=

www.amazon.com/XWR100-Dual-Band-Wireless-Internet-Router/dp/B003S4ZJW4/
Enter code PITSTOP1 at checkout.

CNet Review/.rating is very positive.
http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/vizio-xwr100-dual-band/4505-3319_7-34122884.html

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