2014 list of consumer available DVR's - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 532 Old 03-27-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

However whatever lifetime fee or monthly subscription fee required should be clearly stated.

 

OK, that would be a good compromise if Videobruce decides to leave them in.

At least that way people could make an informed choice about what they were getting.

 

As it stands now there is a lot of confusion and misunderstandings. I still see people on this forum, for example, asking whether or not they can use a TiVo without a subscription so this fact should be clearly noted in the comparison table.


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post #452 of 532 Old 03-27-2014, 07:14 AM
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LOL -- and now for something completely absurd:
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

Remove Non-programmable DVR's

I think you should remove any DVR's, like TiVo, that can not be programmed to record for free out of the box. Otherwise the cost is misleading because you must pay additional charges for a subscription fee or it will not record. Therefore, it is not comparable to the other boxes and should be excluded, perhaps with a disclaimer that Tivo's are very popular and a good choice for those willing to pay the extra fees, and a warning that they are dead-in-the water otherwise.

YES -- I fully support this.

PLEASE REMOVE ALL MENTION OF TiVo FROM THE LIST AND POSTS OF THIS THREAD.

Then maybe you people will stop posting your continual streams of nonsense.
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post #453 of 532 Old 03-27-2014, 10:19 AM
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Then maybe you people will stop posting your continual streams of nonsense.

 

No way. Every once in a while I check-in for entertainment purposes only. :)

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post #454 of 532 Old 03-27-2014, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

No way. Every once in a while I check-in for entertainment purposes only. smile.gif
I think I'd rather watch my TiVo. biggrin.gif
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post #455 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Then do so.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #456 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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whatever lifetime fee or monthly subscription fee required should be clearly stated.
It has been. The first entry under PROGRAM GUIDE & RECORDING; "Pay only".

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #457 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 01:21 PM
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I'm guessing what incensed the OP is that TiVo's business model is so counter-intuitive. Common sense tells you if you don't buy the guide, you won't get the guide - but you'd (naively) think you could still use a TiVo "VCR style."

But of course, if TiVo worked that way, they could only charge what the guide was actually worth wink.gif and the TiVo boxes themselves would cost more. Probably, the OP either overlooked the "Pay only" listing in the chart, or else he didn't understand its full implications, bought a TiVo, and then discovered he mostly couldn't use it without paying more. (I think it'll still time-shift but that's about it.) Sorry he took it out on you for not putting those two words in a font like this!

I don't like TiVo's business model, so I never bought one, but I think they're OK as long as you understand the rules and are willing to pay their fees (either monthly or up-front for a lifetime subscription).
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post #458 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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The problem is, TiVo apparently doesn't make it clear enough or you wouldn't have so many doing the same thing. Buying it and then finding out.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #459 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

The problem is, TiVo apparently doesn't make it clear enough or you wouldn't have so many doing the same thing. Buying it and then finding out.


Oh people know(at least someone not living under a rock) but so many people want something for nothing it's not funny.....we get people all the time that want to purchase a Tivo for $99 and then not pay for lifetime or monthly, wonder if the same people go to Verizon and want to get a iPhone for free(or $99) and then not sign up for a 2 year contract :rolleyes:

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post #460 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I'm guessing what incensed the OP is that TiVo's business model is so counter-intuitive. Common sense tells you if you don't buy the guide, you won't get the guide - but you'd think you could still use a TiVo "VCR style."
Here we go again.

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post #461 of 532 Old 03-28-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


It has been. The first entry under PROGRAM GUIDE & RECORDING; "Pay only".

 

Yes, but why not put it right up top with the price, since it really is a show-stopper.

 

You could buy the unit for that price expecting it to work (a reasonable assumption)

 

But the fact it won't actually work without additional charges is a pretty significant restriction and should be prominently noted.

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post #462 of 532 Old 03-29-2014, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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^ Done ^

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #463 of 532 Old 04-11-2014, 01:56 AM
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Just saying thx for this thread!
I'm looking at options to cut the cable (Comcast here in Howell, Mich), and go purely OTA + Internet, desire DVR.
I've got the antenna, used it strictly Mar-2005 - June-2007 before HDTV was carried by Comcast here, including pre-amp.
Also got a OTA tuner for my basement HT PJ.
.


I'll post Q's as I dig into more info into the appropriate thread or create my own to not clutter this sticky.
Thx again.
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post #464 of 532 Old 04-11-2014, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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If it has to do with reception, here is a dedicated sub-forum for that.
Are any of your OTA stations VHF or are they all UHF? If so, that isn't the most ideal antenna. Are they all in one direction, I see there is no rotor?

The dismal selection of DVR's in this country is pathetic, especially if you compare what is available in European & Asian countries where there is no or little interference (restrictions) from a single manufacturer and/or the movie industry.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #465 of 532 Old 04-11-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

If it has to do with reception, here is a dedicated sub-forum for that.
Are any of your OTA stations VHF or are they all UHF? If so, that isn't the most ideal antenna. Are they all in one direction, I see there is no rotor?

The dismal selection of DVR's in this country is pathetic, especially if you compare what is available in European & Asian countries where there is no or little interference (restrictions) from a single manufacturer and/or the movie industry.

From an old 2008 post I made
http://www.avsforum.com/t/988834/need-ota-antenna-advice#post_13027655
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I went outdoors, very happy with the Channel Master lineup, I got the "deep fringe" for around $90 give or take in 2005, not bad.

I think Lowes carries them, among the DIY stores.
Channel Master line-up

The one I got, the "deep fringe", I love the name


I also got a pre-amplifier at the mast to boost my signal, this way when I split it among my HDTV/HD radio sources still strong and good quality signal
Channel Master CM 0068DSB VHF/UHF/FM Spartan 3 Outdoor Pre-Amp


here is my antennaweb.org map, with my set-up I get ALL the digital stations listed.
I'm a fixed mast, pointed at 117 deg to get the Detroit stations.
Frankly, sometimes in very-very bad weather some of the off-axis stations pixelate sometimes, but not often.
Obvious, but I have to state this here:
To the OP (and others), be very-very careful putting up outdoor antenna on your roof.
I underestimated how dangerous this would be. My 2+ story garage roof is a 45deg pitch, at first I thought I could walk up that to mount it, WRONG.
I therefore had to get out my 32 foot ladder and use that to install the antenna at my gable end. Very dangerous carrying a fully extended antenna up there. I even used (2) 2 x 4' to securly brace the ladder to my home side so it would not move, a wise thing since while carrying the antenna up there and it swayed I'm sure the ladder would have fallen sideways w/o those.
My brother was there to help, but with only 1 big ladder he could not do much, if we had 2 big ladders would have been so much safer, but who has two big ladders at home?? I have the one 32 footer because every 4 years I have to re-stain my log home on the outside.

MikeDTAntennaMap.JPG

update 4-10-2014: I've not gone to antennaweb.org since I installed that outdoor antenna way back when....and I'm not putting a different antenna there.
When I did use it got pretty decent reception, and on the occasion cable is out I've used it in my family room set-up and got so many stations, as recently as recent ice storm back in Jan-2014.
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post #466 of 532 Old 04-11-2014, 10:04 AM
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ok - fwiw I like the old antenna.web info better, told me ufh or vhf, but either way I'm good as my deep fringe can get both per specs. Basically I'm pointed at Detroit area.....
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post #467 of 532 Old 04-11-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I'm guessing what incensed the OP is that TiVo's business model is so counter-intuitive. Common sense tells you if you don't buy the guide, you won't get the guide - but you'd (naively) think you could still use a TiVo "VCR style."

But of course, if TiVo worked that way, they could only charge what the guide was actually worth wink.gif and the TiVo boxes themselves would cost more. Probably, the OP either overlooked the "Pay only" listing in the chart, or else he didn't understand its full implications, bought a TiVo, and then discovered he mostly couldn't use it without paying more. (I think it'll still time-shift but that's about it.) Sorry he took it out on you for not putting those two words in a font like this!

I don't like TiVo's business model, so I never bought one, but I think they're OK as long as you understand the rules and are willing to pay their fees (either monthly or up-front for a lifetime subscription).

SInce when is the TiVo service just for the guide? That is not the case. The TiVo service cost covers more than the guide.

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post #468 of 532 Old 04-11-2014, 11:57 AM
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I just blocked aaronwt's posts.
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post #469 of 532 Old 04-15-2014, 10:40 AM
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Why, because he spoke the truth that you didn't want to hear?
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post #470 of 532 Old 04-15-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post


SInce when is the TiVo service just for the guide? That is not the case. The TiVo service cost covers more than the guide.

 

The OTA programs arrive free-of-charge over the public airwaves. Non-subscription DVR's then tune and record these programs free-of-charge.

 

Please explain, exactly, what value added TiVo is providing in addition to a program guide.

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post #471 of 532 Old 04-15-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Why, because he spoke the truth that you didn't want to hear?

I just didn't appreciate his rhetorical style wink.gif

I will concede that, technically, aaronwt did "speak the truth:" the monthly TiVo fee does add something of value beyond the guide; specifically, the ability to use the bloody thing at all!

But we've had that discussion many times before. I see no point in his dredging up an old post of mine and trying to relitigate it yet again.
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post #472 of 532 Old 04-15-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by laridae View Post

 

Please explain, exactly, what value added TiVo is providing in addition to a program guide.

 

I think it's best left with... If you don't (already) understand then I can't explain it to you.

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post #473 of 532 Old 05-30-2014, 07:48 PM
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Hi All!

I hope I don't offend anyone because Bruce you've done a great job with this thread!
And I understand your requirement to list a device as a DVR, and streaming boxes don't fit those, BUT...

I've only recently discovered the TabloTV streaming device, not from this list of course, it isn't even mentioned in the "I'm not going to mention" list.
smile.gif

I personally was going to cut the cord and go with an OTA Roamio, (4 tuners) +lifetime sub and possibly a Tivo Mini (but I think that requires an additional lifetime fee which is too much) from reading your list last month.
Then somehow I heard about the TabloTV DVR option, it basically is a DVR without an HDMI output for the tv. But that does also make it a whole Home DVR! and you can connect to your sets easily using $35 Chromecast devices or Roku or AppleTV units if you already own those, or also a tablet with an HDMI cable even or PC.
When I started reading about it, I became very excited! I think I seen it selling on Newegg.com. Now would I have preferred an HDMI connection, yes, but now thinking about it, I rather prefer the 6 streams option giving me whole HOME benefit.

So I was teetering now between the Tivo Roamio and this new more affordable option I had discovered.
The thing that worried me about the Tivo route was the lifetime sub ($500 each box) was not my lifetime but the boxes, that's a huge risk for a cord cutter looking to save money in the long run.
Then I heard about the $150 lifetime price for the TabloTV's guide and it is tied to your account's lifetime (not the boxes) and is valid for as many units you connect to your account.
Wow! That was a huge saving for me! And made the decision for me a no brainer! I suspect many people will feel this way too.

So Bruce, if you really want to help people looking for better affordable options out there for recording and watching OTA HDTV, I think you should consider adding TabloTV to this list, or at least mentioning it as a streaming option that connects easily to all your tv sets in many ways, making it a great Whole Home HD DVR option.
Yes, it also requires external USB storage device (BUT that also is a plus as you can choose how much storage you buy depending on your tv viewing needs) but prices are low now on external USB devices, so it's also a benefit!

Also something rarely mentioned about the TabloTV, and has to do a lot with the discussion here on if Tivo's can also be used without paying for the guide. The TabloTV CAN be used without subscribing to their 14 day guide!
A great option for cheap cord cutters, LOL. OK, Thrifty cord cutters, sorry! You get a full 2 days of guide data for free but need to make all recordings manually in that mode like a VCR (minus the blinking 12:00 feature).

The benefits of paying for the guide (also a $4.99 a month option) become obvious to users wanting the FULL DVR experience! You pay but get added features, an extended 14 day guide, auto recordings of series, no repeats, beautiful artwork of the shows to make selecting on a tablet (better than using any remote control by the way) etc...

I pre-ordered the 4 tuner model of TabloTV already, and I only have 2 more months left on my Dish Hopper commitment. I am truly excited to receive my TabloTV then hook it up to my network and roof antenna, connect a small usb HD and start watching free OTA HDTV thru my Roku box as an interface to my big screen tv, and thru my chromecast device streaming to my bedroom set. It really sounds like a simple setup, no?

Bruce, I do believe the TabloTV is a very viable alternative (more affordable than Tivo) for cord cutters, and I hope you can add a mention of it someplace in the first page (the list), thanks so much!
I don't work for TabloTV, I didn't even get my box yet (only the 2 tuner models are currently shipping) BUT the reason i hope you list them is I want them to succeed, so they grow and my lifetime subscription will last a long long time!
I think they will fill a void I've been feeling for a while now.
That's my only motive here. I do feel we need competition in this market, and all the other free DVR options don't offer the nice guide features that Tivo does, so this company does and at a much lower price, people need to know about it.

Thanks so much guys! and I am sorry if this post is deemed inappropriate,
Sincerely,
AnthonyNYC
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post #474 of 532 Old 05-31-2014, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I am sorry if this post is deemed inappropriate,
Not at all, actually just the opposite.
I wanted to separate the PC & 'streaming devices from what a conventional DVR (that replaced a VCR) using broadcast TV and/or CATV for a program source as opposed to the Internet. There are entire sub-forums for those. If someone there wants to compile their list, be my guest, but apparently no one has.

But, there are a select 6 or 8 individuals that have contributed nothing, or close to nothing to this thread that continuously attack me on a personal basis that is conveniently and constantly ignored by this forums moderators. They claim the "list" is inaccurate, but fail to point out where.

Mentioned and links added to post 1.

.

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The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #475 of 532 Old 05-31-2014, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Download and launch the Tablo app on your tablet, or use the web-based app on your computer
There is the deal killer and the reason it isn't listed. No TV interface. rolleyes.gif
How can you use it without one of those electronic toys many have surgically embedded into their hand? Why can't their UI be on the TV you are weaving?

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #476 of 532 Old 05-31-2014, 10:09 AM
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VideoBruce,

I understand your point about it not having a tv interface directly BUT it does have the ability to inferface directly to a tv using a cheap tablet or ipad (something as you mentioned everyone seems to have) as the interface/remote control.
It really is a new and unique and novel approach in my opinion actually, to use a tablet as the guide and remote control. Rather than using IR to control the functions, the choices you make on the guide go over your wifi to the box, quite clever I think.

And in a way, the TabloTV is not much different than building your own Media PC (HTPC) actually, right?
But with much more flexibility actually, because to connect to your tv sets using a HTPC with media Center you still require a PC with a video card with hdmi to connect to the tv or a media center extender type device.
So just think of the TabloTV box as the HTPC, and every single tablet (ipad or android) as media center extenders, or connect the same exact way as a HTPC with your video cards HDMI cable directly to the tv set.
Or (more flexibility than HTPC) connect with a chromecast ($35) and use your smart phone to choose the channel or program to stream, everyone should have a smart phone by now, no?

Plus you get the features of a Slingbox device built in for no extra charge, so watch your show on your tablet or cell phone while waiting at the doctors office or online at the DMV, wherever! On vacation hundreds of miles away.

When I first bought my first DVR so many years ago, everyone worried what if we forgot to set the show to record? and we weren't home! Tivo allowed you to connect to your guide to program shows eventually and the satellite DVR's also now stream anywhere too, but this unit seems to have all the capabilities anyone can desire in a home video recording internet device, it does it all! Much more than a plain old DVR or VCR could ever do, it deserves a mention as a DVR option that's all I am saying because I came to your list to find a solution for myself, yet somehow my solution wasn't on your list.
But thanks so much for the thumbs up on my earlier post, much appreciated!

AnthonyNYC
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post #477 of 532 Old 05-31-2014, 10:15 AM
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I just noticed you did already add the TabloTV on the first page on the list of streaming devices not mentioned, that's a start!
At least someone might see it there and realize it can do everything they want and more and they don't need to settle for the conventional definition of what a DVR is.
Especially the younger internet connected generation who have a tablet or big screen phone glued to their hip! LOL

Thank you VideoBruce for that!
I do appreciate you making the update!
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post #478 of 532 Old 06-01-2014, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I also added a link to the owners thread in this same forum to that post. wink.gif
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post #479 of 532 Old 06-01-2014, 05:42 PM
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I would not consider the Tablo as a "traditional" DVR, which I suggest most folks coming here looking for DVR info would expect.
ie - No video outputs connected directly to your TV set. Perhaps in a couple years, but not in 2014.
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post #480 of 532 Old 06-01-2014, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

ok - fwiw I like the old antenna.web info better, told me ufh or vhf, but either way I'm good as my deep fringe can get both per specs. Basically I'm pointed at Detroit area.....
Nice house-looks more like a mansion!
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