2014 list of consumer available DVR's - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 524 Old 07-03-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
I appreciate your thoughts, thank you.

Maybe CM felt that this flagship DVR+ didn't need their best tuner. By most accounts / articles, it's considered pricey at $250. I didn't and don't feel that way though. As I said in the DVR+ thread, using HDMI 1.2 and USB 2.0 seems to indicate to me that there was a concerted effort to keep costs down; knowing they might get some grief regarding pricing. For a unit just released for sale months ago, the use of those dated standards (HDMI 1.2 has been around 8+ years and USB 2.0 over a decade) might explain the tuner of choice too. I'm not up enough on tech at the moment, but I wonder how many 2014 released gadgets (TV's, AVR's, DVD players, etc) have HDMI 1.2 and USB 2.0. I would guess very few to none.

That all said, the use of those older standards doesn't seem to compromise the intended functionality of the DVR+, so a smart move on CM's part, with the initial experimentation of sorts (first DVR offering). I'm simply stating that this logical mentality, if consistent, might also apply to tuner selection...

I have not experience with the CM-7000, but from what you share and others, it is highly regarded for its tuner.

...

I guess it's not exactly popular and / or easy to be swapping tuners in these devices?
I don't own a DVR+ (and I do have some issues with it) but I agree that $250 isn't out of line for a 2-tuner DVR with a 14-day EPG, since there are no monthly fees. Even if CM someday dumps the guide in favor of a new DVR model (as they did with their CM-7400), that should still be a couple of years down the road.

I also don't understand why some folks get so hung up on using the "latest and greatest" standards. It's not as if you can't plug a USB 3.0 HDD in, nor as if USB 2.0 or HDMI 1.2 can't handle the workload. I'll fault CM for not using eSATA or USB 3.0 when they release a 10-tuner model

As for swapping tuners, unfortunately these days tuners are all surface-mount chips and every model has its own unique pinout, so it's not really possible. I've long maintained that someone should market a DVR that can use network-based tuners (like Silicon Dust's HD HomeRun models), so you could have as many or as few as you need, so multiple DVRs could share tuners, and so customers would have a way around any inadequate built-in tuners. But (aside from HTPCs) I'm still waiting for that to happen.
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post #512 of 524 Old 07-03-2014, 10:59 AM
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Thank you Joe. I guess I haven't frequented enough, at least these parts, to know which members have a history. From other boards, I know what you mean though...
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post #513 of 524 Old 07-03-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
There is not. You would have to buy a DTVPal or CM-7000Pal used. (They do pop up quite often on eBay.) And of course AVSForum would probably be your only source of support.

So to summarize CC support:
Pals & new HD Funais - Yes; Live and Recordings
TViX - No (Recordings supported with extra PC-based work)
Homeworx - Live only
That seems to be about the size of it. Very unfortunate. The Funais are probably the best way to go out of the whole lot. Not what I expected, but I have never been satisfied with my old Philips branded one which I absolutely love.

Would it have killed them to put a burner or USB out on them?
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post #514 of 524 Old 07-03-2014, 11:31 AM
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That seems to be about the size of it. Very unfortunate. The Funais are probably the best way to go out of the whole lot. Not what I expected, but I have never been satisfied with my old Philips branded one which I absolutely love.

Would it have killed them to put a burner or USB out on them?
The Funai/Philips HDR 5710 & 5750 have USB in/out for up to 8 ea. 32GB-4TB USB-HDDs, so 33TB of storage... also for FW update. (Not sure if that's what you meant with "USB out"?)
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post #515 of 524 Old 07-03-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
I don't own a DVR+ (and I do have some issues with it) but I agree that $250 isn't out of line for a 2-tuner DVR with a 14-day EPG, since there are no monthly fees. Even if CM someday dumps the guide in favor of a new DVR model (as they did with their CM-7400), that should still be a couple of years down the road.

I also don't understand why some folks get so hung up on using the "latest and greatest" standards. It's not as if you can't plug a USB 3.0 HDD in, nor as if USB 2.0 or HDMI 1.2 can't handle the workload. I'll fault CM for not using eSATA or USB 3.0 when they release a 10-tuner model

As for swapping tuners, unfortunately these days tuners are all surface-mount chips and every model has its own unique pinout, so it's not really possible. I've long maintained that someone should market a DVR that can use network-based tuners (like Silicon Dust's HD HomeRun models), so you could have as many or as few as you need, so multiple DVRs could share tuners, and so customers would have a way around any inadequate built-in tuners. But (aside from HTPCs) I'm still waiting for that to happen.
Thanks for addressing my question. I like your idea and hope it comes to fruition soon. Sounds like a solid biz opportunity...

To be clear, I'm not one hung-up on the latest and greatest standards, especially when it doesn't make sense in a given application. i was aware of the USB and HDMI standards in the DVR+ before purchase, and commented on such in the DVR+ thread, noting that it makes sense and from user accounts doesn't impact performance negatively. Just noting that the same good enough rationale might have been employed with the tuner of choice - which is more than adequate for those with signal to spare...

I need to read-up more on the HD HomeRun offerings. I think I had done so at some point though. I believe there is no remote control, so control would be via an internet device. If so, I want something with remote that I can tie into a learning remote, like the Harmony 1, to control one whole system. Having to use a remote control then an phone to satisfy all AV needs is something I'm trying to avoid. I might be mistaken though as I might be thinking of TabloTV. Heck, maybe both. Really neat solutions, just not what I'm after in this room of the house...
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post #516 of 524 Old 07-03-2014, 02:41 PM
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Yes; the HDHR tuners are controlled by the network-connected devices that use them. Currently that would need to be either a PC, which opens up another whole can of worms, or a DLNA-compatible device, which could be a TV but I think excludes DVRs.
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post #517 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 12:45 AM
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@wajo - I meant some ability to get the programs off the HDD. A BD burner would be nice, but the ability to copy to a USB device would be good too.
From what I understand the USB connection allows for external drives, but the data is in some as yet unidentified file system format.
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post #518 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 06:06 AM
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@wajo - I meant some ability to get the programs off the HDD. A BD burner would be nice, but the ability to copy to a USB device would be good too.
From what I understand the USB connection allows for external drives, but the data is in some as yet unidentified file system format.
That's always a problem with dedicated hardware DVRs. You could build your own with a computer's DVR which wouldn't have that issue. :/
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post #519 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post
@wajo - I meant some ability to get the programs off the HDD. A BD burner would be nice, but the ability to copy to a USB device would be good too.
From what I understand the USB connection allows for external drives, but the data is in some as yet unidentified file system format.
We know what the filesystem is but haven't had any "expert" PC users help figure things out, as described here.
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post #520 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 03:18 PM
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That's always a problem with dedicated hardware DVRs. You could build your own with a computer's DVR which wouldn't have that issue. :/
That's not true; the TViX 6620 stores files unencrypted on its NTFS SATA HDD, so you can:
  1. Move the HDD into your PC to copy the files
  2. Connect a USB HDD to one of the USB ports to copy the files
  3. Connect an Ethernet cable or wireless antenna and use FTP or SMB to fetch the files over your home network

The DVR+ also stores unencrypted files on its ext2 USB HDD, so you can connect it to your PC to copy files (assuming you can read a Linux filesystem), and TiVo lets you transfer files over Ethernet, too. There are other options besides an HTPC for saving your recordings.
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post #521 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
That's not true; the TViX 6620 stores files unencrypted on its NTFS SATA HDD, so you can:
  1. Move the HDD into your PC to copy the files
  2. Connect a USB HDD to one of the USB ports to copy the files
  3. Connect an Ethernet cable or wireless antenna and use FTP or SMB to fetch the files over your home network

The DVR+ also stores unencrypted files on its ext2 USB HDD, so you can connect it to your PC to copy files (assuming you can read a Linux filesystem), and TiVo lets you transfer files over Ethernet, too. There are other options besides an HTPC for saving your recordings.
Oh nice. I didn't know there existed. I have DTV Pal DVR that is encrypted. Although, the recordings should be accessible by any computers like NTFS so TViX 6620 would probably be a good pick for a dedicated DVR instead of a HTPC (I use DVB Viewer Pro for TS and MPEG-2 OTA ATSC recordings without subscriptions). Frak TiVo for its subscription.
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post #522 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
That's not true; the TViX 6620 stores files unencrypted on its NTFS SATA HDD, so you can:
  1. Move the HDD into your PC to copy the files
  2. Connect a USB HDD to one of the USB ports to copy the files
  3. Connect an Ethernet cable or wireless antenna and use FTP or SMB to fetch the files over your home network

The DVR+ also stores unencrypted files on its ext2 USB HDD, so you can connect it to your PC to copy files (assuming you can read a Linux filesystem), and TiVo lets you transfer files over Ethernet, too. There are other options besides an HTPC for saving your recordings.
Isn't the iView another one that stores unencrypted files on the USB drive?

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post #523 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 05:44 PM
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Isn't the iView another one that stores unencrypted files on the USB drive?
Yes, recordings made by Homeworx/iView boxes are not encrypted and may be readily accessed on a PC.
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post #524 of 524 Old 07-04-2014, 07:58 PM
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See? There are so many choices available that I even forgot two of them.
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