iView-3500STB Tuner & DVR Owners Thread - Page 173 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5161 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 09:00 AM
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The recordings are mpeg2 at the source (which has nothing to do with the container) and mpeg2 is not playable by the Roku. They will need to be converted to mpeg4 to be playable on the network. With a beefy enough processor - Plex or Emby could certainly transcode on-the-fly for streaming. I use these boxes for recording my wife's daily chat shows. After recording, I move them over to my server and then either have Plex do ahead-of-time transcoding so they are ready when she wants to watch them - or I use handbrake to convert to h.264 mpeg4. Since I'm not concerned about file size (or that every single frame is as optimized as it can be) - I use the 'very fast' 720p preset in Handbrake for the conversion.

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post #5162 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MuseChaser View Post
audio protocols are the same as .mp4, no? Do I really HAVE to "convert" the entire file (which, as of now, has taken 2 hours so far to convert three one hour shows using Jriver, and I'm only about 1/4 of the way through the process)?
I took a file off my similar devices and ran it through ffmpeg to go from the mts to mp4 format. It did it, but the audio sync was off a little, I need to find the setting to tweak that... That was a short 30 min Batman episode in 480i... didn't take that long.. Something in 1080i would take longer... Hmm.. Don't think I record anything in 1080 or 720 at all... nope... Just the diginets which are all 480i.

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Does anyone have a quick way to take the .mts files resulting from Iview recordings, then put them on their local network so they're playable by a local player in another room?
Because of the amount of stuff I record, its easier to just take the USB drive out.. connect to a nearby box, and then cp that stuff to my NAS, and then play from there.

No conversions, I just point my Android box with VLC to the NAS with the MTS files on it and let VLC play them.

I just do something like:

find -type f ! -name "*sample*" -name "*.mts" -mtime -1 -exec cp -vn {} /home/mybox/NASlink/$DIRDATE/ \;

Which finds and copies the stuff from the last day into the directory structure I use for my playback.

I am hoping if I can find the right fine tuning to sync the audio I can add that to the commands executed. Although that would slow the move down.. I'll tweak that once I get the audio tuned up.
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post #5163 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 01:00 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I've messed around a little more, and there isn't a way that I've found for a Roku or Kodi to play an .mts file, despite the fact that Jriver, VLC, and WMP all play it just fine. It's true that I can play it back on our Android tablets using VLC, but that's not the goal. We live in a terrible OTA because almost every signal we get is 2edge; we live down in a valley and there's two hills between us and the broadcast towers, which aren't very close to begin with. Our television set is on the first floor and our little homebrew theater is in the basement; we can't get anything at either of those locations. However, our house is VERY tall, and I can pull in all of the networks from the attic/third floor living space where the antenna and iView 3500STB is, along with a small monitor. I use it to record OTA so I can eventually watch a few shows we like on one of the two sets. Both have Rokus, and both have Pi boxes I built based on Kodi, and all our media is stored on a NAS. The theater is strictly a projector (no sound) and a full 5.1 audio system comprised of separate components, and the bedroom TV is not a "smart" tv.

After the three .mts files (6.3g, 6.4g, and 3.4g respectively)I asked about earlier were converted to .mp4 files using JRiver, which took about eight hours, I transfered them to the NAS and was able to play them back successfully on both the Roku and KodiPi boxes. A MUCH better solution would be to find a way for the Roku and KodiPi boxes to support .mts files, or at least a faster way to convert them from.mts to .mp4 files.

I like the hardware I have; our network works very well, serves three fairly hi-end audio systems with FLAC and DSD audio, and two viewing locations with our digital video media, currently all .mp4. The idea of reworking the hardware .. well.... is very unattractive. Sooo.. there's no way to get Kodi or a Roku to support .mts?!?
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post #5164 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 01:03 PM
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No, not the same as .mp4; the video codec is MPEG2 and the audio codec is AC3 (aka Dolby Digital). (.MP4 typically uses h.264 for video and AAC for audio.)

But surely those codecs are supported! They aren't exactly unheard of. I suspect the Roku is lying about the problem. It may just be tripping over the container format.

You could try "remuxing;" i.e., converting the container without re-encoding the audio or video. The free FFMPEG command-line utility is an easy way to do this; for example:

ffmpeg -i myinputfile.mts -vcodec copy -acodec copy myoutputfile.mpg

... will convert a .mts file to a .mpg container much more quickly (and without losing fidelity) than re-encoding. The output file should end up about the same size as the input; maybe a little smaller.
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post #5165 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 02:29 PM
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The .mts file isn't the problem - it's the mpeg2 video contained within. Mpeg2 is not supported by the Roku and needs conversion.
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post #5166 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 02:33 PM
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Oh, that sucks! Why on Earth would Roku leave an MPEG2 codec out of their box?

I guess there's no Roku solution other than a long, slow handbrake conversion, then. But at least the file will become a lot smaller....

What about the Kodi/Pi box? I'm not familiar with it, but isn't it Linux based? Surely there's a way to install an MPEG2 codec on it

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post #5167 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuseChaser View Post
Thanks for the replies. I've messed around a little more, and there isn't a way that I've found for a Roku or Kodi to play an .mts file, despite the fact that Jriver, VLC, and WMP all play it just fine. It's true that I can play it back on our Android tablets using VLC, but that's not the goal. We live in a terrible OTA because almost every signal we get is 2edge; we live down in a valley and there's two hills between us and the broadcast towers, which aren't very close to begin with. Our television set is on the first floor and our little homebrew theater is in the basement; we can't get anything at either of those locations. However, our house is VERY tall, and I can pull in all of the networks from the attic/third floor living space where the antenna and iView 3500STB is, along with a small monitor. I use it to record OTA so I can eventually watch a few shows we like on one of the two sets. Both have Rokus, and both have Pi boxes I built based on Kodi, and all our media is stored on a NAS. The theater is strictly a projector (no sound) and a full 5.1 audio system comprised of separate components, and the bedroom TV is not a "smart" tv.

After the three .mts files (6.3g, 6.4g, and 3.4g respectively)I asked about earlier were converted to .mp4 files using JRiver, which took about eight hours, I transfered them to the NAS and was able to play them back successfully on both the Roku and KodiPi boxes. A MUCH better solution would be to find a way for the Roku and KodiPi boxes to support .mts files, or at least a faster way to convert them from.mts to .mp4 files.

I like the hardware I have; our network works very well, serves three fairly hi-end audio systems with FLAC and DSD audio, and two viewing locations with our digital video media, currently all .mp4. The idea of reworking the hardware .. well.... is very unattractive. Sooo.. there's no way to get Kodi or a Roku to support .mts?!?
Since you can pull in the local OTA channels from your upstairs, why not get an HDHomeRun Extend networked tuner?? It "should" convert the ts files to whatever format you need?? Connect your antenna to that tuner and stream the video to what ever device you have on your existing network.

Those turners are so versatile.......
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post #5168 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 02:54 PM
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Out of the box the Pi doesn't support mpeg2 either. To try to gain some money for the project, it can be purchased, however. It's super-cheap and well worth it to support the Pi Foundation. From the Pi FAQ:

1.6 Video and audio formats the Raspberry Pi can playback
  • H.264 (up to High Profile) encoded videos are supported up to 1080P using hardware video decoding. Note: Hi10P will not work.
  • MPEG-4 encoded videos are supported up to 1080P using hardware video decoding. This includes XviD and recent versions on DivX (but not the older 3.xx DivX).
  • The Raspberry Pi Foundation offers additional video codec licenses for a few dollars. At the moment you can purchase MPEG-2 and VC1, both with support up to 1080P. Read below on how to enable these.
  • MJPEG, VP6, VP8 and OGG Theora are supported as GPU accelerated software decoders. These are limited to DVD resolutions.
  • Codecs without gpu support like DivX 3, msmpeg and sorenson spark will be decoded by dvdplayer on the ARM. Should work for SD resolutions.
  • DVD ISOs with menus should work fine (using dvdplayer).
  • Software DTS audio decode works well in recent builds. TrueHD audio is CPU intensive and may require overclocking.

Conversion doesn't have to be brutal for time. As mentioned - I don't care that the file size isn't the smallest, most optimized it can be. Using a very-fast or super-fast can get quite a few files done overnight. I'm assuming Plex isn't being used by musechaser - but it can be set to automatically optimize files thrown into it. I would experiment with mkv instead of mp4 also. I know ... I know ... the container shouldn't matter. But when I was initially converting my wife's files for use with Plex - I ran into an audio glitch where when she would fast-forward, audio would be slightly out of sync. Rewind or FF again - and it was synced. REW/FF once more -- out of sync. Do it again -- synced. And so on. Using the exact same settings - but changing the container to mkv solved the issue. Now - I either just throw them into Plex and let Plex convert them - or drag them all into Handbrake for a quick overnight conversion if we're using the server for the evening to watch stuff.

PS: +1 for getting something like the Extend as mentioned. Although I am happy with the Homeworx for what I'm using it for (chase-play for football games plus the wife's shows) - having something like either Tablo or the Extend on the network gives a lot more options for TV and devices. It does have some caveats -- I wouldn't use a network tuner for channel surfing or chase-play, and it doesn't de-interlace so some clients (like Roku, again) don't display interlaced content all that well -- but it does open up a lot more options and would seem to be a nice fit for your third floor. I like my current system a lot more than I liked my old TiVo.

Last edited by eherberg; 10-13-2017 at 04:29 PM.
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post #5169 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 04:40 PM
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Oh, that sucks! Why on Earth would Roku leave an MPEG2 codec out of their box?

I guess there's no Roku solution other than a long, slow handbrake conversion, then. But at least the file will become a lot smaller....

What about the Kodi/Pi box? I'm not familiar with it, but isn't it Linux based? Surely there's a way to install an MPEG2 codec on it
Roku is Linux based too, and it actually does have a MPEG-2 decoder in it (I believe), but for the general consumer streaming market does not allow MPEG-2 decoding because it would require a royalty payment, and there is a loop-hole in the royalties for MPEG-4, which says that there is NO royalty required for video that is streamed over HTTP. After all, it IS a STREAMING player first and foremost, not a general purpose media player.

Of course, you could just spend another few bux and get another iView (or equivalent) to play TS/MTS/MPEG-2/whatever all the iView plays, or use any other player you may have in your TV/Blu-Ray/etc. there (I play files recorded on <whatever> and maybe stripped of their containers and edited on my TV/Blu-Ray/whatever regularly, but it depends on the format and drive limitations of the device how useful it is, usually not the decoders included).

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post #5170 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 05:09 PM
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MPEG2 still requires royalties for playback? When does the patent on the bloody thing expire anyway?
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post #5171 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 05:57 PM
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It's not that surprising. The remaining MP3 patents only expired earlier this year, after all.
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post #5172 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 06:11 PM
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It's not that surprising. The remaining MP3 patents only expired earlier this year, after all.
It's supposed to be 20 years after application or grant, whichever is longer.

I remember MP3s in the 90s, but not MPEG-2 (MPEG-1, yes).

So we may have a few more years before TVs cost $3 less (or whatever the royalty is).

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post #5173 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 07:56 PM
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I remember when patents used to be 17 years, but some industries (mostly pharmaceuticals, I think) lobbied for an extension.

For software patents, 20 years might as well be a lifetime. By the time they expire, they've mostly been replaced by newer, better algorithms anyway.

But MP3 is an exception in that's still fairly widely used. MPEG-2 probably will be too, at least as long as ATSC 1.0 sticks around (which will probably be a while, despite the best efforts of ATSC 3.0 boosters).

As you say, the per-unit cost isn't that much at this point, at least for the decoders, which sell a lot of units. Problem is, many royalties require a big "down payment" up-front, which deters start-ups from licensing them before they know their product will succeed. It's also bad for niche products like digital RF modulators. An iView may only come down by $3, but I'd guess an ATSC modulator (far fewer units sold) could come down by $130 or more.

You'd think by now, though, Roku would be confident enough to pony up, but I guess they've gotten this far without MPEG-2, so maybe they figure, why bother?
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post #5174 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
I remember when patents used to be 17 years, but some industries (mostly pharmaceuticals, I think) lobbied for an extension.

For software patents, 20 years might as well be a lifetime. By the time they expire, they've mostly been replaced by newer, better algorithms anyway.

But MP3 is an exception in that's still fairly widely used. MPEG-2 probably will be too, at least as long as ATSC 1.0 sticks around (which will probably be a while, despite the best efforts of ATSC 3.0 boosters).

As you say, the per-unit cost isn't that much at this point, at least for the decoders, which sell a lot of units. Problem is, many royalties require a big "down payment" up-front, which deters start-ups from licensing them before they know their product will succeed. It's also bad for niche products like digital RF modulators. An iView may only come down by $3, but I'd guess an ATSC modulator (far fewer units sold) could come down by $130 or more.

You'd think by now, though, Roku would be confident enough to pony up, but I guess they've gotten this far without MPEG-2, so maybe they figure, why bother?
You made me look, so here it is: it was 17 years in the US until 1995, when it was changed to 20 years to conform with most international patent laws.

Copyright terms are almost impossible to figure out now due to the "Disney effect". Mickey Mouse kept lobbying Congress to keep extending the term, to something like a billion years after the death of the copyright holder, and since Uncle Walt is cryogenically frozen (or at least his head), he still hasn't technically died.

So one day cockroaches will rule the Earth, but they still won't be able to make a copy of "Steamboat Willie"...

MPEG-2 and other TV patents (such as Dolby Digital 5.1) were the bribes that the Japanese used to get Congress to pass the digital broadcast TV law. Previously, technology used in TVs that was standardized by the government was required to be put into public domain without royalties. When color TV was standardized, RCA owned the patent on it, but gave it up because they believed they would make SOOOOOOOOOOO much money selling TVs the patent revenue would be irrelevant. Worked out well for them (they used to be the Google of radio/TV electronic equipment in the 20s-40s, by the 60s they barely existed).

So the Japanese went to Congress and said that digital TV patents would make all these American companies rich, and you know what, most of what they do at Dolby Labs in San Francisco is just cash royalty checks. But the Japanese, just like RCA, found out the hard way that the path to riches wasn't selling a whole bunch of TVs (Sony in particular is rumored to lose $100 on every TV they sell in the US, but they keep doing it to "save face").

As far as Roku is concerned, who exactly knows, except they are a STREAMING company, and MPEG-4 streams up to 60% faster. They had no problems adopting H.265/HEVC for 4K streaming before anybody else, despite royalties (another up to 60% speed increase, to handle the 25-50 Mbps speeds needed for UHD streaming, where the big problem in the market continues to be the download rate of the average American's Internet connection, but to be fair, vastly improved over a decade ago)...

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post #5175 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 09:54 PM
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just fine. It's true that I can play it back on our Android tablets using VLC,
I am NOT talking about Android tablets, I discussing Android TV boxes, like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KM8P-Android...-/272499653842

Go to the application store, install VLC.. run it, open up my NAS, pick my dir, play my stuff on my 50" TV..

Right now this whole sneakernet thing is not really ideal, but versus $400 for other devices...I will live with it...

I have two things to solve on this:

M2TS to H264 .. ffmpeg is not my thing, so I have to dig through the various options... I found something that can resync the audio... its just a matter of getting it to convert to H264...

and

A way to get that USB drive to look like a USB drive to the DVR, but have a way to either SCP from it or Samba share... I found one that will do either or, but not both at the same time.
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post #5176 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
MPEG2 still requires royalties for playback? When does the patent on the bloody thing expire anyway?
Here:

Quote:
MPEG LA, (editors comment: BOOO HISSS BOO HISSS! DIE IP TROLL SCUM! ) a private patent licensing organization, has acquired rights from over 20 corporations and one university to license a patent pool of approximately 640 worldwide patents, which it claims are the "essential" to use of MPEG-2 technology, although many of the patents have since expired.[28][29] Where software patentability is upheld, the use of MPEG-2 requires the payment of licensing fees to the patent holders. Other patents are licensed by Audio MPEG, Inc.[30] The development of the standard itself took less time than the patent negotiations.[31][32] Patent pooling between essential and peripheral patent holders in the MPEG-2 pool is the subject of a study by the University of Wisconsin.[33] Over half of the patents expired in 2012.[34]

According to the MPEG-2 licensing agreement any use of MPEG-2 technology is subject to royalties.[35] MPEG-2 encoders are subject to a royalty of $2.00 per unit, decoders are subject to a royalty of $2.00 per unit, and royalty-based sales of encoders and decoders are subject to different rules and $2.50 per unit.[35] Also, any packaged medium (DVDs/Data Streams) is subject to licence fees according to length of recording/broadcast.[35] A criticism of the MPEG-2 patent pool is that even though the number of patents will decrease from 1,048 to 416 by June 2013 the license fee has not decreased with the expiration rate of MPEG-2 patents.[36][37][38][39] Since January 1, 2010, the MPEG-2 patent pool has remained at $2 for a decoding license and $2 for an encoding license.[35][37][38] By 2015 more than 90% of the MPEG-2 patents will have expired but as long as there are one or more active patents in the MPEG-2 patent pool in either the country of manufacture or the country of sale the MPEG-2 license agreement requires that licensees pay a license fee that does not change based on the number of patents that have expired

This is why IP encumbered things should NOT be in a STANDARD.

You want to make that part of ATSC,? Then you give up all rights. No? GO AWAY!
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post #5177 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by maxreactance View Post
So one day cockroaches will rule the Earth, but they still won't be able to make a copy of "Steamboat Willie"...
]

Arrgghh matey... and now you know why I despise disney with the passions of 2000000 suns!)

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MPEG-2 and other TV patents (such as Dolby Digital 5.1) were the bribes that the Japanese used to get Congress to pass the digital broadcast TV law.
Is there something online that outlines this??? I don't remember this, as I didn't pay much attention to the whole ATSC debacle.. other than it getting weighed down with a billion patents.

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Previously, technology used in TVs that was standardized by the government was required to be put into public domain without royalties. When color TV was standardized, RCA owned the patent on it, but gave it
This is EXACTLY what should happen. You want an EIA, ANSI, **standard** then NO PATENTS!


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up because they believed they would make SOOOOOOOOOOO much money selling TVs the patent revenue would be irrelevant. Worked out well for them (they used to be the Google of radio/TV electronic equipment in the 20s-40s, by the 60s they barely existed).
I think that time line is a little off.. RCA was quite alive and kicking, I had one the last RCA TV's the XL100's or something in the early 80's..


I personally agree that they should be able to recoup any R&D and patent usury fees by selling TONS of TV's! Everyone had to purchase at least ONE NEW COLOR TV. Yes, even into 80's early 90's I had 2 B&W's. I got a B&W for a birthday or something gift, and that was early 80's.. I had it till I got a small Panasonic "portable" color one.. I used them both for while. I think the B&W one got moved to the porch for use out there for awhile. We had one of those GE Spacemaker TV/Radios mounted in the kitchen .. it was B&W.. I think they did finally make a color version, but it was overpriced as I recall... But there were at least 2 color TV's in the house from RCA. Matter of fact that RCA lasted me until the early 2000's, I don't think it survived the last of one too many moves.

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Originally Posted by maxreactance View Post
So the Japanese went to Congress and said that digital TV patents would make all these American companies rich, and you know what, most of what they do at Dolby Labs in San Francisco is just cash royalty checks.
Since I am not into the whole 99.100.101000 speaker stuff... This is just a prime example of ATSC and thus the consumer and the broadcasters getting hosed on this deal.


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Originally Posted by maxreactance View Post
But the Japanese, just like RCA, found out the hard way that the path to riches wasn't selling a whole bunch of TVs
I don't buy that... and I smell a rat.. with dumping what ever it is on the market at cheap prices just to get sales. versus charging what is needed to pay costs..

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Originally Posted by maxreactance View Post
(Sony in particular is rumored to lose $100 on every TV they sell in the US, but they keep doing it to "save face").
I don't buy that., either.
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post #5178 of 5189 Old 10-13-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
MPEG2 still requires royalties for playback? When does the patent on the bloody thing expire anyway?
After looking at this... appears that 2018, is the magic year!

See:

http://robglidden.com/wp-content/upl...-By-Source.jpg


http://robglidden.com/wp-content/upl...-2-Patents.jpg

http://robglidden.com/2011/12/08/hal...xpire-in-2012/

2/14/18! For this:

http://www.google.com/patents/US7334248

"Conditional access filter as for a packet video signal inverse transport system
US 7334248 B2
Abstract
A method and an apparatus for processing a packetized transport stream that determines whether a sequence of transport packets are received in a proper sequence and whether an error is present in a particular transport packet. The method includes the steps of determining a packet identifier for identifying transport packets associated with a selected program and parsing a packetized transport stream to identify and capture the desired sequence of transport packets in response to the packet identifier. The method further includes the steps of detecting a counter portion, determining whether a desired sequence of transport packets has been received in response to the counter portion, detecting a one bit toggle portion, and determining whether an error exits in the associated transport packet in response to the one bit toggle portion. An apparatus for implementing the method i"
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post #5179 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TampBayOTA View Post

I think that time line is a little off.. RCA was quite alive and kicking, I had one the last RCA TV's the XL100's or something in the early 80's..

Everyone had to purchase at least ONE NEW COLOR TV.

I don't buy that... and I smell a rat.. with dumping what ever it is on the market at cheap prices just to get sales. versus charging what is needed to pay costs..
Hey, "RCA" is still alive and kicking to this day, but only as a brand name (the company was purchased by Thompson last I heard for a song decades ago, kind of invalidating the "A" in "RCA").

I'm pretty sure I saw an "RCA" TV at Fry's, and I use an "RCA" 6-device remote everyday (good for an iView because they have "page up/down" buttons that makes it less likely to hit the guide bug for paging through the show descriptions). I have a few other "RCA" products that I don't use because they are stupid junk, and after researching the "RCA" TV it turns out that is a piece of stupid junk.

Sony would have gone bankrupt years ago if they relied on their once-dominant consumer electronics business, they get most of their profits to offset consumer electronics losses from their purchase years ago of the old Columbia Pictures which they have, under AMERICAN management, turned into a content distribution/production powerhouse...the Koreans took over the TV market, and increasingly, the Chinese, basically the same kind of folks who bring you the iView...

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post #5180 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 11:40 AM
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Hey, "RCA" is still alive and kicking to this day, but only as a brand name (the company was purchased by Thompson last I heard for a song decades ago, kind of invalidating the "A" in "RCA").
Yea.. I have an "RCA" 7511 antenna, its basically a Winegard one.. At least its made in IA.US!

The RCA XL100 or something XL was one the last TV's that RCA actually designed and made.. although it was mostly made outside the US.


There are plenty of stuff that is just a NAME now days

Thompson holds the rights to a whole bunch of them. I've lost track.. Its even worse than when Masushista aka Panasonic had rights all kinds of these brands... The same for all those things like Frigidaire etc.. Just a name. sigghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
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post #5181 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 12:25 PM
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SanDisk Flash

Yo, been following the entertaining discussion about using USB Flash Drives with the iView. Love how it evolved from the marginal drives which had trouble with 1080i recordings. Looks like SanDisk has come to the rescue with their "Ultra" USB 3.0 Drives.

Recently broke down and headed over to my local Target and looked for the recommended "SanDisk Cruzer Ultra Flash Drive 64GB 3.0" device. Sorry to say, the online description did not match the in-store stock, BUT found something Very Very close to the description, namely, the "elevate SanDisk Ultra USB 3.0 Flash Drive (64GB)" (up to 10x faster, as it says on the package). LOL

Same price ($21.99) as the one described in the forum, but without the "Cruzer" moniker.

Happy to say it works 100% with my iView 3200STB, recording 1080i programs perfectly (no pixilation), but I don't, nor ever have used the timeshift function. Soooo, just wanted to pass this along, but most of y'all probably knew this already.

Only drawback to dumping my 500GB external "spinner" drive would be capacity. 64GB only allows up to eight 1hr. 1080i recordings, or approx. sixty-four 1hr. 480i recordings. If you mostly view 4:3 programs, it's OK, but limits you to a handful of 1080i recordings. Fragmentation of the drive may yield different results in the future, but that's for another time.

Hats off to SanDisk. Bravo.
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post #5182 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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As far as Roku is concerned, who exactly knows, except they are a STREAMING company, and MPEG-4 streams up to 60% faster. They had no problems adopting H.265/HEVC for 4K streaming before anybody else, despite royalties (another up to 60% speed increase, to handle the 25-50 Mbps speeds needed for UHD streaming, where the big problem in the market continues to be the download rate of the average American's Internet connection, but to be fair, vastly improved over a decade ago)...

max
Your entire post is good info. And yes, if patents seem long, copyrights are absolutely ridiculous, thanks largely to Disney!

As for Roku, you're right; their business model is delivering streamed video, and MPEG-2 is so much less efficient than the newer codecs that no one of consequence streams MPEG-2 video over the Internet. So it's worth it for Roku to license newer, more efficient video codecs like HEVC because they know content will be streamed using that codec going forward, but the only advantage to them of licensing MPEG-2 would be playing prerecorded media, media streamed from a local server, or possibly media streamed from one of the older HDHRs that didn't transcode on-the-fly. None of which makes them any money beyond a few additional Rokus they may sell.

So I guess the OP will be waiting for the patents to run out before playing raw iView recordings on a Roku. At least there's a nominal-cost option for his Pi.
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post #5183 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by QAM View Post
Yo, been following the entertaining discussion about using USB Flash Drives with the iView. Love how it evolved from the marginal drives which had trouble with 1080i recordings. Looks like SanDisk has come to the rescue with their "Ultra" USB 3.0 Drives.
...
Only drawback to dumping my 500GB external "spinner" drive would be capacity. 64GB only allows up to eight 1hr. 1080i recordings, or approx. sixty-four 1hr. 480i recordings. If you mostly view 4:3 programs, it's OK, but limits you to a handful of 1080i recordings. Fragmentation of the drive may yield different results in the future, but that's for another time.

Hats off to SanDisk. Bravo.
Yes; it's a different paradigm. Personally, I'm hoping that what I lose in capacity will be made up for in convenience. I can use them like old-fashioned videocassettes, but bigger; and with random access to boot! The price/GB is still significantly higher with flash drives though.

My only remaining concern with flash drives is how they'll perform when they start getting full. It's known that SSDs tend to slow down as they run out of sectors known not to be in use, so if you or I fill one up, then delete files to make more room, we may find our flash drives can no longer keep up at higher bit rates. (Internal SSDs in PCs have a "trim" function by which the OS can "tell" the SSD about sectors no longer in use due to deleted files, but no such function exists for USB drives.) If that happens, zeroing the unused sectors on the drive may recover performance, but I haven't yet tested this.
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post #5184 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TampBayOTA View Post
Yea.. I have an "RCA" 7511 antenna, its basically a Winegard one.. At least its made in IA.US!

The RCA XL100 or something XL was one the last TV's that RCA actually designed and made.. although it was mostly made outside the US.


There are plenty of stuff that is just a NAME now days

Thompson holds the rights to a whole bunch of them. I've lost track.. Its even worse than when Masushista aka Panasonic had rights all kinds of these brands... The same for all those things like Frigidaire etc.. Just a name. sigghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
I've got an RCA "ANT751" antenna myself, but I don't use it. It's a pretty good VHF-hi/UHF antenna, but it's not quite as good as my homemade antenna.

The junk that "RCA" makes are things like their splitters and cables and stuff like that, which reveal themselves as junk shortly after purchase and implementation. Very poor sourcing, "RCA", to sell a 3-foot run of alleged RG-6 cable that knocks out 10 channels out of a 100 compared to a similar length RG-59 cable bought at a drugstore or somewhere for like $0 years ago...

Sony is making a comeback of sorts with their high-end OLED TVs, which do have an absolutely stunning picture, finally replacing this wall-sized Panasonic plasma I saw years ago as the "best TV picture ever" in my mind. I am actually tempted, and that's saying something...

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post #5185 of 5189 Old 10-14-2017, 03:31 PM
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Your entire post is good info. And yes, if patents seem long, copyrights are absolutely ridiculous, thanks largely to Disney!

As for Roku, you're right; their business model is delivering streamed video, and MPEG-2 is so much less efficient than the newer codecs that no one of consequence streams MPEG-2 video over the Internet. So it's worth it for Roku to license newer, more efficient video codecs like HEVC because they know content will be streamed using that codec going forward, but the only advantage to them of licensing MPEG-2 would be playing prerecorded media, media streamed from a local server, or possibly media streamed from one of the older HDHRs that didn't transcode on-the-fly. None of which makes them any money beyond a few additional Rokus they may sell.

So I guess the OP will be waiting for the patents to run out before playing raw iView recordings on a Roku. At least there's a nominal-cost option for his Pi.
I'd say $7 is pretty affordable!

I actually don't know what Roku's business model is, and I'm not sure they do either, but it may be coming into better focus with the absolute stampede towards video streaming by consumers and content holders in just the last two years. My only experience with Roku is along those lines and professional, so I'm not even sure what all their boxes can do. I do remember somebody telling me once that of the thousands of Roku channels available, a large portion are churches who put up "private channels" to share videos and photos with their congregation (there might be easier ways to do this on the Internet, but not necessarily to the family TV). So I'm actually a little surprised to hear they DON'T have multiple codec support, but then I don't know what's going on with all these "churches" and their "private channels"...

Professionally, I just work with H.264/H.265/AAC/A3C/etc. (oh, and possibly VP9 for YouTube), DRM/HDCP/HDMI requirements, etc., making sure that the ultimate content holders' requirements are met for each particular box, same as for most Android TV etc. boxes. It shouldn't be surprising that say, CBS, is not interested in MPEG-2 for their "All Access" service, since that's what they broadcast to 98.5% of the country, and it's actually superior in some cases to their streaming "channel", for absotively FREE!

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post #5186 of 5189 Old 10-17-2017, 07:41 PM
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Bit of a warning for users of the time-shift function: If you leave time-shift running for an extended period, you may have trouble using the function the next time you need it. This happens with both spinning-platter drives and flash drives, but it's worst with spinning-platter drives. If you try to time-shift after you've done this, the playback will be extremely "jerky" (I don't know a better way to describe it). It will pause, hesitate, then speed up to get "caught up," only to hesitate again a few seconds later.

I've caused myself this problem twice; both times by simply forgetting to turn the iView off (or to press Stop a second time to leave time-shift mode completely).

The cure I found is to connect the drive to a Windows PC, navigate to the HBPVR directory, delete the timeshift.ts and timeshift.ts.meta files, and finally, check the drive for errors. Let Windows fix the errors, then you can do a "safe disconnect" of the drive and plug it back into the iView. Time-shifting should then start working again.

Side note: The "Stop" button's operation during time-shifting is a bit counter-intuitive. If you're actively time-shifting, pressing Stop once will bring you up to "live" viewing and dismiss the progress bar; however, time-shifting is still active. You can press Pause/Play twice and you'll be a few seconds behind; you can then rewind all the way back to the beginning of the buffer if desired.

But if you press Stop when you're already at "live" viewing, you'll see a box briefly appear, indicating you're leaving time-shift mode. But until you do this, turn the iView off, or change channels, the iView is still recording to the buffer, so it's easy to accidentally leave time-shifting on for an extended period.

Also, if you're at "live" viewing but time-shifting is still active, the iView will not stop you from changing channels with the up/down/recall buttons, but it will stop you from entering a channel number with the digit keys. So if your iView seems not to be responding to the digit keys, that may be the reason. Try pressing Stop.
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post #5187 of 5189 Old 10-18-2017, 04:48 PM
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Bit of a warning for users of the time-shift function: If you leave time-shift running for an extended period, you may have trouble using the function the next time you need it. This happens with both spinning-platter drives and flash drives, but it's worst with spinning-platter drives. If you try to time-shift after you've done this, the playback will be extremely "jerky" (I don't know a better way to describe it). It will pause, hesitate, then speed up to get "caught up," only to hesitate again a few seconds later.

I've caused myself this problem twice; both times by simply forgetting to turn the iView off (or to press Stop a second time to leave time-shift mode completely).

The cure I found is to connect the drive to a Windows PC, navigate to the HBPVR directory, delete the timeshift.ts and timeshift.ts.meta files, and finally, check the drive for errors. Let Windows fix the errors, then you can do a "safe disconnect" of the drive and plug it back into the iView. Time-shifting should then start working again.

Side note: The "Stop" button's operation during time-shifting is a bit counter-intuitive. If you're actively time-shifting, pressing Stop once will bring you up to "live" viewing and dismiss the progress bar; however, time-shifting is still active. You can press Pause/Play twice and you'll be a few seconds behind; you can then rewind all the way back to the beginning of the buffer if desired.

But if you press Stop when you're already at "live" viewing, you'll see a box briefly appear, indicating you're leaving time-shift mode. But until you do this, turn the iView off, or change channels, the iView is still recording to the buffer, so it's easy to accidentally leave time-shifting on for an extended period.

Also, if you're at "live" viewing but time-shifting is still active, the iView will not stop you from changing channels with the up/down/recall buttons, but it will stop you from entering a channel number with the digit keys. So if your iView seems not to be responding to the digit keys, that may be the reason. Try pressing Stop.
Well, NOW we know...

I have been massively confused by the time-shift feature, mostly how the hell to get out of it. I've also had problems with flash drives not being recognized by my PC and long transfer times after using time-shift on my iView.

You know, crazy idea, maybe somebody should write a manual...naaaaah, that's just not the way things are done in the 21st century, just say "Hey Google" and see if anything comes back...

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post #5188 of 5189 Old 10-18-2017, 05:16 PM
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Or they could make time-shifting work more logically in the first place:

  • It should always be active when you have a drive connected and aren't recording or playing back something. That's how other DVRs work.
  • This should go without saying, but leaving it on for too long shouldn't cause any problems.

Then you wouldn't have to remember to start or stop it; it would just be there whenever you wanted it.

But I guess that's asking a bit much.
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post #5189 of 5189 Old 10-18-2017, 05:49 PM
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Or they could make time-shifting work more logically in the first place:

  • It should always be active when you have a drive connected and aren't recording or playing back something. That's how other DVRs work.
  • This should go without saying, but leaving it on for too long shouldn't cause any problems.

Then you wouldn't have to remember to start or stop it; it would just be there whenever you wanted it.

But I guess that's asking a bit much.
Yes, asking for more than two weeks of firmware development by "programmers" who probably would flunk out of the first year of an American computer science program IS asking a lot...

Oh, well, I'll just remember to press "STOP" twice rather than hacking up the thing...

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