Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Maybe he's a beta tester. smile.gif

While I was provided "beta" hardware, my role is that of press. Some peers, like CNET, gathered in NYC for a press briefing - whereas that location isn't practical for me. Yet we had the same 8AM announcement/embargo to work towards. I've communicated with both Channel Master and Echostar for years, in addition to many others, and similarly received one of the very first DTV Pal DVRs for coverage purposes: http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2009-01/dtvpal-dvr-unboxing-setup/

Anyhow, that's the boring inside baseball stuff... here's the better stuff:

Via Sourceforge, I installed Ext2Fsd to mount my external USB drive of DVR recordings. And while VLC choked for maybe the first time ever, SMPlayer, also from Sourceforge gets the job done in terms of playback. I'm sure more utilities and workflows will be developed to access and manipulate this content (as you don't want to waste smartphone or tablet storage with humungo MPEG2 files). But it's clear Channel Master isn't locking the content down and it's ours for the taking. While it's probably not a priority at launch, I can imagine a scenario where some time down the road Channel Master may even develop their own widgetry to help us offload and sideload content.
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post #362 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Until we get some more detailed shots of the board straight one and of the enclosure with a reference to judge size, it is speculation.
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

I live in a rental. Thanks to my ex-wife I may never have credit for a mortgage. Running cable from my router to my living room TV would be impossible without tearing out the walls. So, I'm limited to WiFi or power line adapters. I'm sure I'm not the only person in that situation.

Well you can run cat5/6 along your baseboards, which I did, to get gigabit wired ethernet in each room of the appt I live in.....

Not really. CEM's commonly re-badge units with slight regional / company specific adjustments and introduce it to consumers as a "new" producte.

Clearly the CM is a re-badged Echostar DVR....and however the Echostar is able to fit 500GB storage the CM should be able to also support, unless CM did something relly dumb and cheapened out, they customized the mainboard to leave off the internal SATA connector to squeeze out that extra $0.50 profit from the unit...
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post #363 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by davezatz View Post

...Channel Master may even develop their own widgetry to help us offload and sideload content.
It will NEVER happen - FW is developing by E*, not CM and it's well known fact, the company NEVER give up own code to anyone.
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post #364 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

It will NEVER happen - FW is developing by E*, not CM and it's well known fact, the company NEVER give up own code to anyone.

That's not very optimistic, first off. Second off, Channel Master is an Echostar customer. It's good to have customers. It's even better to have happy, repeat customers. (And I know for a fact how closely the two companies have been working together on this solution.) Third off, nothing says a solution like this needs to originate on the DVR+ itself. Anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves - you buy a product for what it does now, not what it might do based on speculation or my wishful thinking.
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post #365 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

If there's a difference, it would be that TiVo is also smart enough not to record the exact same episode more than once. I don't know if the DVR+ is that smart, so it's possible you could end up with duplicate recordings if a given episode is aired more than once (e.g., summer reruns; also PBS shows are often aired repeatedly throughout the week). As with the two-tuner limitation, some folks may find that completely inadequate, while others will be just fine with it. YMMV.

I'd say the usefulness of name-based recording will depend heavily on whether you use PSIP or the Internet guide and whether that Internet guide has episode numbers and titles.

I would never trust name-based recording with PSIP, since at best PSIP only gives you the name of the show and a paragraph of plot summary for it. It won't tell you the episode title or number, so there would be no way to filter for repeats. Furthermore, stations sometimes fail to send PSIP, and if your show randomly becomes "DTV Program" in the guide for one week, you'll miss it. As such, I'd consider timers to be more reliable. If the Internet guide has more specifics on each episode, then it might be more useful.
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post #366 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz View Post

That's not very optimistic, first off. Second off, Channel Master is an Echostar customer. It's good to have customers. It's even better to have happy, repeat customers. (And I know for a fact how closely the two companies have been working together on this solution.) Third off, nothing says a solution like this needs to originate on the DVR+ itself. Anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves - you buy a product for what it does now, not what it might do based on speculation or my wishful thinking.
I'll tell you more - for attempts to get recording out of DVR/PVR dish/e* legally pursuit these geeks in a court.
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post #367 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davezatz View Post

But it's clear Channel Master isn't locking the content down and it's ours for the taking.
Thank you Dave. That is a major verification of what was suspected.
Now let's see if Video ReDo can open the .ts files for editing out commercials.

thanks again

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post #368 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 02:03 PM
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Dave, your screen shot of the program guide shows only 5 channels over a 2-1/2 hour period.

https://plus.google.com/photos/113747739680935437662/albums/5958502891036629825/5958502886118878258?pid=5958502886118878258&oid=113747739680935437662

Are there more settings? I find even the smallest text on the PalDVR showed only 9 channels for a three hour period, and I would have liked to have seen more channels and more time. What is the maximum the guide on the DVR+ can show on the screen at once?

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post #369 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I'd say the usefulness of name-based recording will depend heavily on whether you use PSIP or the Internet guide and whether that Internet guide has episode numbers and titles.

Doesn't appear to allow only new episodes. The only choice I see is "Record just this program" or "Record all programs with this name".

https://plus.google.com/photos/113747739680935437662/albums/5958502891036629825/5958502886118878258?pid=5958502886118878258&oid=113747739680935437662


.
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post #370 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by davezatz View Post

While it's probably not a priority at launch, I can imagine a scenario where some time down the road Channel Master may even develop their own widgetry to help us offload and sideload content.

 

Actually, EchoStar already provides that function on the HDT-610R which is very similar to the DVR+ but is only sold in the UK.  Here is what the 610 user guide says:

 

"Exported recordings can be viewed on a compatible Media Player device or on a PC with a suitable video player"

 

"A one hour program requires about 1.5GB of storage and takes approximately 8 minutes to export"
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post #371 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlflannery View Post

Well I'll be interested to hear how well the "same name" feature mimics a season pass.

It's more a recurring recording by name, versus time, than a sophisticated season pass that can avoid repeats and whatnot. However, beyond picking up the names and broadcast times, each series can have custom padding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post

Dave, your screen shot of the program guide shows only 5 channels over a 2-1/2 hour period.

https://plus.google.com/photos/113747739680935437662/albums/5958502891036629825/5958502886118878258?pid=5958502886118878258&oid=113747739680935437662

Are there more settings?

I didn't find any guide settings. For what it's worth, the page up/down buttons move the guide pretty quickly. For comparison, I will say I find some of the menus and presentation on my TiVo too small, even when wearing my glasses. Not sure what the happy medium is or should be, but I like the look of Channel Master's guide and the (adjustable) transparency effects.

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Originally Posted by DD24 View Post

Actually, EchoStar already provides that function on the HDT-610R which is very similar to the DVR+ but is only sold in the UK.  Here is what the 610 user guide says:
"Exported recordings can be viewed on a compatible Media Player device or on a PC with a suitable video player"
"A one hour program requires about 1.5GB of storage and takes approximately 8 minutes to export"

Nice! That suggests Channel Master could leverage (and brand that) functionality down the line.

By the by, the brains of the operation is a Broadcom BCM7231.
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post #372 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
iView, HomeWorx = low end
CM-7500 = mid-range DVR for OTA
TiVo = high end DVR with advanced features


All priced accordingly

Don't expect the CM-7500 to be a TiVo for $250 + HDD and don't kill it for being what it was designed to be and appealing to the market it was designed to appeal to.

Fair enough, I use Season Passes almost exclusively with my Tivo but of course my cheap iView only has VCR style programming(unless you count the woefully inadequate PSIP programming) if the CMs guide went out past 12hrs, which it sounds like the internet version will, even without SPs it would be a nice option for those wanting to save money but still have a guide that goes out at least a week.

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post #373 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dlflannery View Post

Well I'll be interested to hear how well the "same name" feature mimics a season pass. If the answer is "not very well", then I believe the DVR+ is overpriced.

Overpriced based on what metric? TiVo is still $500-$600. The Phillips HDR5710/5750 digital VCRs are $250-$300. And, the iViews and Homeworx are cheap and glitchy to the max (and still cost $100 when you figure in the hard drive). I don't see where $300 is too much to ask for a 2 tuner DVR with free 14 day guide, name based recording, and infinite storage potential, even if it doesn't have a true season pass. If people choose to pay the extra money for TiVo so they have season pass, it certainly is their own right, but not everyone has it as a priority.
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post #374 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DD24 View Post

 

"A one hour program requires about 1.5GB of storage and takes approximately 8 minutes to export"

 

1.5GB per hour? My recordings (WMC) range roughly from 5.5GB to 7.5GB per hour...

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post #375 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
 

 

1.5GB per hour? My recordings (WMC) range roughly from 5.5GB to 7.5GB per hour...

 

I would assume that is for an SD program.  They say the internal 500GB drive is capable of recording up to 300 hours in SD or 125 hours in HD.  But I was also thinking that 8 minutes to export 1.5GB is really slow unless they were also doing a format conversion of the video file.

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post #376 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DD24 View Post
 

 

I would assume that is for an SD program.  They say the internal 500GB drive is capable of recording up to 300 hours in SD or 125 hours in HD.  But I was also thinking that 8 minutes to export 1.5GB is really slow unless they were also doing a format conversion of the video file.

 


Let's say 450GB is available for storage after the filesystem, buffer, OS, etc. That's only 3.6GB per hour... something isn't right.

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post #377 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
 

 


Let's say 450GB is available for storage after the filesystem, buffer, OS, etc. That's only 3.6GB per hour... something isn't right.

 

I don't know.  It really doesn't matter.  Channel Master is only quoting 80 hours of HD for a 500GB external drive which is in line with what you would normally expect.

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post #378 of 4610 Old 12-20-2013, 06:41 PM
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From Broadcom's product brochure;
Quote:
BCM7231 40 nm HD IP/CATV STB, 2000 DMIPS App CPU, DDR3,
400M p/s OGL 2.0 3D Graphics, USB, SATA, SDIO &Ene

This was released in early 2011;
http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s558909
http://blog.broadcom.com/home-entertainment/inside-the-boxee-tv-broadcom-powers-no-limits-dvr/

$5 a pop?;
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/741690867/_IC_BCM7231.html

Paranoia hits here;
http://www.multichannel.com/cable-operators/broadcom-adds-anti-hacking-tech-set-top-chips/140983

SoC details;
Quote:
BCM7231 is a high performance system set-top box decoder chip, support for multiple video decoding, Mpeg2 demultiplexer internal integration, advanced audio decoder, 2D/3D graphics processor, motion adaptive interlace and post-processing unit, TV encoder, video DACs, stereo high-fidelity audio DACs, it also integrates a MIPS has a floating-point processing unit 4380 class processor and integrates a rich peripheral interfaces.

Features
1 high-performance hardware video decoder supports multiple video formats including: AVS, AVC (H.264/Mpeg-4 Part 10), SVC, MVC, Mpeg-4 Part 2, Mpeg2, VC1 and DivX, H.263 , Xvid, etc. Support for MVC 3D and SVC 3D.
2 Integrated DNR / DCR post-processing module can be improved decoded video quality.
3 advanced audio decoder supports AAC-LC, AAC-LC + SBR, Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus, Mpeg-1 Layer 1/2/3, and WMA and WMA Pro, while integrated audio DAC, I2S and SPDIF and other kind of interface.
4 standard Mpeg-2 demultiplexer, while supporting 255 PID filters, PES filter depth up 64Byte, supports multiple PVR recording and playback.
5 security processor BSP able to accept the conditions and PVR CA copyright protection to provide technical assurance.
6.32 high-performance MIPS CPU, 32KByte Data Cache, 32Kbyte instruction Cache, up to the computing performance 2000DMIPS, EJTAG debug interface.
7 powerful 2D graphics acceleration.
8.3D graphics acceleration engine fully supports OpenGL ES 2.0, OpenVG 1.1, and support for real-time video mapping.
9 supports a variety of analog video formats PAL (including PAL-M/N/Nc), NTSC output.
10 The integrated 4-channel video DAC, can be flexibly configured for a variety of CVBS / S-Video / YPbPr output combinations.
11 Integrated HDMI 1.4 output interface, support for HDCP 1.2.
12 Integrated 32 DDR DRAM controller that supports multiple frequencies from DDR2-1066MHz to DDR3-2133MHz and so on.
13 integrated 4-way USB2.0 Host controller that supports high-speed and full-speed devices.
14 Integrated two-way SATA3 interface.
15 Integrated 10M/100M Ethernet MAC, support a variety of network applications.
16 Integrated LED / IR / SPI / smart cards and other peripheral interfaces.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #379 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 04:55 AM
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Like most everything else, CM is just a name bought by someone else, usually unrelated.

Anyway, here is the equivalent that is sold in the UK;
http://www.myechostar.com/Products/ConnectedDevices/HDT-610R.aspx
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EchoStar-Ultra-Freeview-Digital-Recorder/dp/B007ZYL5ZI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Datasheets (.pdf);
http://www.echostar-europe.com/~/media/Europe/Documents/Products/Terrestrial/IBC%20Datasheets/Ultra_Slim_HDT-610R_Datasheet_300812.ashx
(the former version is here, notice it isn't 'slim' and has a full array of front panel controls and a input jack);
http://www.echostar-europe.com/~/media/Europe/Documents/Products/IPTV/IBC%20Datasheets/HDX-600R_Datasheet_300812.ashx

Reviews. Note the dates from mid 2012 so this isn't anything new;
http://www.trustedreviews.com/echostar-ultra-slim-box-hdt-610r_TV-recorder---set-top-box_review
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/echostar-hdt-610r-review/15387
(this site has more ad servers (14) than here if that is possible. Wait for the page to finish loading.);
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/digital-home/3377382/echostar-ultra-slim-box-hdt-610r-review/?tab=verdictTab#zzz

Open Source, though it doesn't directly apply to this model;
http://www.echostar-europe.com/support/OpenSource.aspx

Obviously it is being prompted by the slimness of the case. Placing that point first tells me, if that is all this has going for it, then they need to re-think things. Selling something mainly on just appearance? As far as "hiding it away", then why bother putting a LED and standby button on the front panel where you can't see or use either??
Quote:
"it barely provides enough space for traditional rear-panel connections."
"The power supply is on the large slide given you're buying this device for it's slim features
and this;
Quote:
the Ultra Slim Box doesn't offer EchoStar's Slingbox technology for streaming content to devices like tablets and smartphones. We were told that the device is simply too thin to fit the hardware in.
Also note more than one comment about the "plasticky", supplied remote.


.

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post #380 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

 

As you have noted, what struck me most about these reviews is that this basic design has been available in the UK for a year and a half!  And the review from mid 2012 mentions Samsung and Panasonic competing models and the Samsung has built-in wifi and even has an integrated 3D BD player (although that may be a more recent model).  There is also something called a "Humax" PVR (not familiar with the brand) showing on the review's web page.  All of these appear to have dual tuners and an internal 500GB drive and to top it all off, they make mention of the fact that these are just the latest models that are available (from mid 2012) not the first with this kind of function.

 

All of these units could have been marketed in the US in the same time frame as the UK with only minor engineering changes.  Why not?  I don't buy the argument that the market in the US for these devices is just too tiny.  Really?  With a population of more than 300 million and a significant percentage who only have OTA?

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post #381 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 08:42 AM
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I noticed from the review above that the US model is missing something important that the UK model has.

"Take a peek around the back and you'll be surprised by the number of ports EchoStar has managed to squeeze into the limited space available. There's both an RF input and output, so you can loop an aerial through to the unit's tuners and then back out to your TV's tuner."

Omitting the RF output thus requiring a splitter to feed the thing was a huge mistake IMO.
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post #382 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Kansas_Tom View Post

I noticed from the review above that the US model is missing something important that the UK model has.

"Take a peek around the back and you'll be surprised by the number of ports EchoStar has managed to squeeze into the limited space available. There's both an RF input and output, so you can loop an aerial through to the unit's tuners and then back out to your TV's tuner."

Omitting the RF output thus requiring a splitter to feed the thing was a huge mistake IMO.
Yeah, you could see the connectors at time mark 1:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_YS9x7n0oM

I would think the RF In/Out connectors are mandatory in UK or CE as a smart card reader existing in the UK model.

When I'll have it, I'm definitely going to solder SATA/Power combo connector to PCB and check if SATA port do really managing by current FW.
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post #383 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 09:08 AM
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Reading reviews at Amazon, I see same problem what we had here with TR-50 model (under two different names) - DVR stop working and exhibit infinitive loop during a boot process. Seems to me, E* Eldon engineers stepped on same sh!t in HW design: using same flash chip (NOR) to save code, data and user setting, EPG, etc
They did that again , ruled out small EEPROM reliable chip (cost 5...20c perhaps) and less coding in favor of systematic issue what lead to total non-function pretty often, see other DTVpal DVR thread.
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post #384 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
this basic design has been available in the UK for a year and a half!
Note the actual SoC was introduced almost three years ago (2011).
.
Quote:
The unpopulated connector footprint is SATA. It would be interesting to see if it's live.
Though not that easy to tell, but it appears the oath from/to where the missing SATA connector would be goes right to the SoC. If you look through those links, the European version has a card reader (or smart card) in the front which would explain the missing components towards the top of that photo.

Also notice the various configurations of memory, flash and otherwise available.


Is davezatz the only owner here so far?

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post #385 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by davezatz View Post

Via Sourceforge, I installed Ext2Fsd to mount my external USB drive of DVR recordings. And while VLC choked for maybe the first time ever, SMPlayer, also from Sourceforge gets the job done in terms of playback. I'm sure more utilities and workflows will be developed to access and manipulate this content (as you don't want to waste smartphone or tablet storage with humungo MPEG2 files). But it's clear Channel Master isn't locking the content down and it's ours for the taking. While it's probably not a priority at launch, I can imagine a scenario where some time down the road Channel Master may even develop their own widgetry to help us offload and sideload content.

That is better than great news. Let's hope nothing changes in that arena, between now and date of wide release! Thanks for the update.
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post #386 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 10:37 AM
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I watched the Echostar video referred to above and it appears that the HDD is internal on that unit. I'll be curious to know if that could be done with the DVR+? Also, has anyone tried more than one drive at a time? Will it see them both, or are you limited to just one at a time? Sorry if that has been covered already.
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post #387 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post



iView, HomeWorx = low end
CM-7500 = mid-range DVR for OTA
TiVo = high end DVR with advanced features


 
 

If CM succeeds they will be one of the very few products available in this mid-range category. Given that all of the 'Name Brand' companies are unwilling or unable to offer comparable products what is CM doing different? Can they survive? What's to stop TiVo's lawyers and a generally unfavourable regulatory climate from driving them out of business?

 

I don't want to buy an 'orphan'. Before I invest in a CM, I'd like some assurance that they aren't headed for failure like so many others.

 

Alternatively, maybe it's really a low end box like the others. Are CM really willing to invest the time and money to make this a quality product? Or are they hedging their bets by not really investing too much in case they get stomped on?


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post #388 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
I watched the Echostar video referred to above and it appears that the HDD is internal on that unit. I'll be curious to know if that could be done with the DVR+?
I doubt there is enough room for an enclosure and the associated USB cable extending out through a opening in the rear connected to one of the USB ports (also probably due to the case being too thin). You would have to find the correct combo 2 1/2" SATA/power connector to solder into that board. That is assuming the feature is not turned off in the firmware (which it may be).

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #389 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by yhtomitb View Post

I watched the Echostar video referred to above and it appears that the HDD is internal on that unit. [bold]I'll be curious to know if that could be done with the DVR+?[/bold] Also, has anyone tried more than one drive at a time? Will it see them both, or are you limited to just one at a time? Sorry if that has been covered already.
see my post#382
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post #390 of 4610 Old 12-21-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Reading reviews at Amazon, I see same problem what we had here with TR-50 model (under two different names) - DVR stop working and exhibit infinitive loop during a boot process. Seems to me, E* Eldon engineers stepped on same sh!t in HW design: using same flash chip (NOR) to save code, data and user setting, EPG, etc
They did that again , ruled out small EEPROM reliable chip (cost 5...20c perhaps) and less coding in favor of systematic issue what lead to total non-function pretty often, see other DTVpal DVR thread.


What reviews? I can't find any for this unit. Not sure how there would be any since it hasn't shipped yet.
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