Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 131 - AVS Forum
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post #3901 of 4607 Old 06-05-2014, 04:44 PM
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The TV had a notice yesterday there was new firmware. The last two updates took some fiddling because I was on the road with a Verizon 3G "MiFi". I had to download the firmware to a USB stick and put the stick in the DVR+.

This time was flawless and easy. I'm on a cable source WiFi in my condo with the Channel Master WiFi button in the DVR+. I took around 5 minutes and rebooted a couple times. It displayed a download progress bar while it was working.

It was a flawless experience with no fiddling.
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post #3902 of 4607 Old 06-05-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakep_82 View Post

I would never spend extra money to pay for the marketing around an "AV" drive, and I'm basing that on 10 years of firsthand experience.

Yes, even a 5400 RPM HDD is an order of magnitude faster than necessary to record multiple HD streams simultaneously. An "AV" drive is either a marketing gimmick to get you to buy that particular brand, or if it costs more than what the company bills as a "normal" drive, then it's a scam, and nothing more.
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post #3903 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 08:10 AM
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I live in Montreal (Canada). I receive on my DTVPAL DVR Montreal and Burlington (Vermont) stations.

If I had a DVR+ with Internet, would I receive program information from ROVI for both locations?

Thank you.
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post #3904 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verrdun View Post

I live in Montreal (Canada). I receive on my DTVPAL DVR Montreal and Burlington (Vermont) stations.

If I had a DVR+ with Internet, would I receive program information from ROVI for both locations?

Thank you.


Probably not. 

I get San Franscisco Bay Area and Monterey/Salinas Area stations, but I can only get program info for one at a time.  I'm on the boundary between the two, and get some (but not all) from each.  And CBS from neither.

 

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post #3905 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Verrdun View Post
I live in Montreal (Canada). I receive on my DTVPAL DVR Montreal and Burlington (Vermont) stations.
If I had a DVR+ with Internet, would I receive program information from ROVI for both locations?
Thank you.

Unless it has changed with some of the FW updates, the Rovi guide is populated over the internet and by zip code here in the USA. I imagine in Canada it would be the postal code. Most USA stations will broadcast a PSIP guide along with the signal, but that is at best for 2 days at a time, and some stations do not broadcast the info.

PSIP-- Program and System Information Protocol    

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_and_System_Information_Protocol

 

Here is another source of info that you might want to check out:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=95820&page=52

 

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post #3906 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Yes, even a 5400 RPM HDD is an order of magnitude faster than necessary to record multiple HD streams simultaneously. An "AV" drive is either a marketing gimmick to get you to buy that particular brand, or if it costs more than what the company bills as a "normal" drive, then it's a scam, and nothing more.

If it is nothing more than placebo, then I guess the $30 premium is worth it. Because using the WD AV Expander , I seem to have none of the stuttering I got with an ordinary usb hd that I tried or the stuttering many here seem to be reporting with their ordinary usb drives.
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post #3907 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verrdun View Post

I live in Montreal (Canada). I receive on my DTVPAL DVR Montreal and Burlington (Vermont) stations.

If I had a DVR+ with Internet, would I receive program information from ROVI for both locations?

Thank you.

That's a really good question. If someone with a little time could enter H2Y 1C6, you'll have an answer. On my older version of the Rovi guide, Canada was not supported.

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post #3908 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verrdun View Post

I live in Montreal (Canada). I receive on my DTVPAL DVR Montreal and Burlington (Vermont) stations.

If I had a DVR+ with Internet, would I receive program information from ROVI for both locations?

Thank you.

 

I'm using a Vancouver, BC postal code and I'm getting DVR+ guide information for several US stations close to the border. It appears to be PSIP based data, since it covers less than 12 hours. At least one of my local Canadian channels also only has about 12 hours of data, but all the major Canadian network channels have about 2 weeks of data provided by Rovi over the internet. I'm too far from Seattle to get any major US network stations other than a nearby PBS repeater which has about 12 hours of data.

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post #3909 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
 

That's a really good question. If someone with a little time could enter H2Y 1C6, you'll have an answer. On my older version of the Rovi guide, Canada was not supported.

 

I would expect that you would have to be already be receiving Montreal channels in order to test this.

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post #3910 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 12:49 PM
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"...If it is nothing more than placebo, then I guess the $30 premium is worth it. Because using the WD AV Expander , I seem to have none of the stuttering I got with an ordinary usb hd that I tried or the stuttering many here seem to be reporting with their ordinary usb drives..."

Thank you for your support. This is why I suggested this drive for the DVR+. I personally prefer the WD reliability and cust. support, and it has performed flawlessly (without dropped data/pixilation) from my PalDVR that I have had with a standard 1 Tb HDD that I used when my OEM HDD failed self test. I originally thought that the pixilation was just normal interference from antenna movement or tree leaf flutter. Now I know that it was the standard HDD I had used. This with a SATA connection - I would assume that a USB 3.0 power drain from a USB 2.0/1 port would also potentially cause the same unreliable and unpredictable data storage and retrieval I experienced on my computer when I used my USB 3.0 Iomega Portable HDD for back-up.
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post #3911 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

I would assume that a USB 3.0 power drain from a USB 2.0/1 port would also potentially cause the same unreliable and unpredictable data storage and retrieval I experienced on my computer when I used my USB 3.0 Iomega Portable HDD for back-up.

I have a CM recommended STBX1000100. Looking at the specs on the Seagate site they state "Take advantage of the fast data transfer speeds with the USB 3.0 interface by connecting to a SuperSpeed USB 3.0 port. USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0 for additional system compatibility." and "SuperSpeed USB 3.0 port (required for USB 3.0 transfer speeds or backwards compatible with USB 2.0 ports at USB 2.0 transfer speeds)". Wouldn't this imply that even though it's USB 3.0 if it's connected to a USB 2.0 port it wouldn't overdraw the 2.0 port?
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post #3912 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Yes, even a 5400 RPM HDD is an order of magnitude faster than necessary to record multiple HD streams simultaneously. An "AV" drive is either a marketing gimmick to get you to buy that particular brand, or if it costs more than what the company bills as a "normal" drive, then it's a scam, and nothing more.

AV drives are neither gimmicks or scams - if they were, don't you think someone would have called the manufacturers out on it by now? A blanket statement like this really bugs me...

For surveillance applications,AV drives last longer than a standard drive, as they are optimized for continuous long term writing of data blocks (95% of their duty cycle, typically.) They are probably overkill for a consumer DVR, I'll agree, but in the applications they are specifically engineered for, they last longer. If anyone is interested, here's Seagate's explanation: Video vs. Desktop HDDs
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I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #3913 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mishmosh View Post

If it is nothing more than placebo, then I guess the $30 premium is worth it. Because using the WD AV Expander , I seem to have none of the stuttering I got with an ordinary usb hd that I tried or the stuttering many here seem to be reporting with their ordinary usb drives.
To add to your post -- AV drives are not a marketing scam. AV drives are optimized to read/write multiple AV streams continuously for long periods. While it is certainly true that modern HDD's -- including portable USB drives -- have more than enough bandwidth to do the same, they are not tweaked to "guarantee" that they will deliver multiple AV streams in a continuous uninterrupted manner. When I read the descriptions of the stuttering problems it appears to be to be a throughput issue -- the drives may have plenty of bandwidth to transfer the data but they are not able to do so continuously for long periods and the buffers are not large enough to compensate for the interruptions.

The DVR+ will at most handle three AV streams simultaneously. People can use whatever drive they want and most of the times they will get satisfactory performance. All I can say is that if it were me, I would use an AV drive with a DVR+ the same as I do with my TiVo's.
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post #3914 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

When I read the descriptions of the stuttering problems it appears to be to be a throughput issue -- the drives may have plenty of bandwidth to transfer the data but they are not able to do so continuously for long periods and the buffers are not large enough to compensate for the interruptions.

 

When I have used (USB 2) external drives with WMC I have seen on rare occasions the image would pixelate for a second or so. In most if not all cases it would be reflected in recordings that were made with other concurrent recordings (up to four). Never have seen it when with less activity and have never seen it at all with internal or iSCSI based recordings.

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post #3915 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

AV drives are neither gimmicks or scams - if they were, don't you think someone would have called the manufacturers out on it by now?

Not really. You can still find HDMI cables that claim to offer superior performance and cost ten times more than normal cables, even though their performance would be the same. (A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0, after all). Unchallenged dishonest marketing tactics are commonplace, especially when most people don't have the knowledge or resources necessary to challenge them.
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post #3916 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 07:53 PM
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"...USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0 for additional system compatibility...Wouldn't this imply that even though it's USB 3.0 if it's connected to a USB 2.0 port it wouldn't overdraw the 2.0 port?..."

Imply, yes - BUT with a caveat. Pin assignment, downward compatible transfer rates, etc. are all true. BUT, SOME USB 3.0 HDDs draw more current from a single USB 2.0 port than it can supply without a 'Y' two port USB cable . This 'Y' cable will allow these problematic USB 3.0 HDDs to draw it's needed current from two USB 2.0 ports without drawing down the 5.2V supply line below the HDD requirements for consistent, reliable, data transfer, storage and retrieval without glitches. So, regardless of the assumptions, implications and personal desires, there CAN be an incompatibility when using a USB 3.0 HDD on a single USB 2.0 port.
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post #3917 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 08:09 PM
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USB devices are supposed to negotiate their power requirements with the computer before fully powering up.  A USB 3 device that needs more power than the USB 2 port can supply simply should not power itself up.  And that Y cable will have some brains in it to negotiate with both  power supplies when the USB device negoitates.

 

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post #3918 of 4607 Old 06-06-2014, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post

AV drives are neither gimmicks or scams - if they were, don't you think someone would have called the manufacturers out on it by now? A blanket statement like this really bugs me...

For surveillance applications,AV drives last longer than a standard drive, as they are optimized for continuous long term writing of data blocks (95% of their duty cycle, typically.) They are probably overkill for a consumer DVR, I'll agree, but in the applications they are specifically engineered for, they last longer. If anyone is interested, here's Seagate's explanation: Video vs. Desktop HDDs

Interesting reading here, especially the last paragraph:

http://www.pctechguide.com/hard-disks/hard-disk-av-capability

 

Another site, again the last paragraph.

http://www.pctechguide.com/hard-disks/hard-disk-hard-drive-operation

 

Draw your own conclusions.

I'm using the Seagate 1TB drive that CM recommends and anytime that I have any video glitches on recordings and have bothered to check it is reproducible..

It is an OTA signal after all..

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post #3919 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 02:35 AM
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"...USB devices are supposed to negotiate their power requirements with the computer before fully powering up. A USB 3 device that needs more power than the USB 2 port can supply simply should not power itself up..."

Again, all of these justifications for arguing that there is no problem using ALL USB 3.0 devices with a USB 2.0 port is only based upon SHOULDS! I personally know that these assumptions are invalid in that the Iomega Support Rep. that I contacted when my Portable 1 Tb HDD started acting up after the third monthly backup session told me about the possible supply current incompatibility between the USB 3.0 HDD and a USB 2.0 supply source, and they sent me a USB 'Y' cable, which solved the problem.

Now, I understand that there are many forum members out there with happy USB 3.0/2.0 device experiences and understanding that there are "Standards" which should supposedly prevent USB incompatibility. However, my personal experience with the potential USB power problem AND using a 'Standard' HDD for video streaming is why I posted both the WD My Book AV HDD option and warning on the potential USB 3.0/2.0 power incompatibility. And, I would suggest that my personal experiences are just as valid as any other, even those that are opposite to mine. Remember that these are only suggestions and options for those who have been experiencing problems with their DVR+, which SHOULD have implemented standards such as WiFi (which has been nearly worthless until now) and USB streaming (which drops data, both audio and pixilation, etc) with 'Tested Compatible' USB 3.0 HDDs. Why not stop arguing about these issues - they happened.
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post #3920 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 07:43 AM
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just got home after being out of town; FW109 installed via wireless successfully first time; remote lag is gone; watched several recorded shows last night--no issues.
Could this be the beginning of the an almost perfect DVR.....
So very happy CM recognized the need for another upgrade so quickly.....which scares me a little, did they have time to totally regression test prior to release.
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post #3921 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by kent2174 View Post

just got home after being out of town; FW109 installed via wireless successfully first time; remote lag is gone; watched several recorded shows last night--no issues.
Could this be the beginning of the an almost perfect DVR.....
So very happy CM recognized the need for another upgrade so quickly.....which scares me a little, did they have time to totally regression test prior to release.


Are you sure that the firmware version is 109?  I ask because the firmware on the ChannelMaster site is 108, http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/200488325-DVR-Software-Update

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post #3922 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 08:44 AM
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yes 108
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post #3923 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 10:35 AM
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WOO HOO! HOORAY! To install the 106R update, I had get a memory stick, go to a friend's house about 10 miles from the cabin, and then load the 106R update through the memory stick... Today, I was able to successfully load the 108R updade wirelessly using the Verizon hotspot! YAY!

So, as it stands now, my Closed Caption issues with NBC and ABC are solved, and the Verizon Hotspot issue is resolved. I am, as of this moment, one happy DVR+ camper! biggrin.gif

Thank you Channel Master.

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post #3924 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post


Not really. You can still find HDMI cables that claim to offer superior performance and cost ten times more than normal cables, even though their performance would be the same. (A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0, after all). Unchallenged dishonest marketing tactics are commonplace, especially when most people don't have the knowledge or resources necessary to challenge them.

 

+1

 

I'm one of the misinformed souls that used to upgrade my HDMI cables, not to Monster cables, which are monstrously expensive (pun intended), but to Acoustic Research cables. Nowadays I buy inexpensive color-coded cables from Monoprice. These allow me to know what goes where with just a glance behind my AV rack, especially because I also pair same-colored Ethernet cables with the HDMI cables. :)

 

For those reporting better results with the AV EHDs, that's cool. I'm glad you found a solution that works for you. Perhaps those who routinely experience stutter even when receiving strong signals should look into this option...

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post #3925 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Not really. You can still find HDMI cables that claim to offer superior performance and cost ten times more than normal cables, even though their performance would be the same. (A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0, after all). Unchallenged dishonest marketing tactics are commonplace, especially when most people don't have the knowledge or resources necessary to challenge them.

There will always be snake oil salesman in this world (aka Monster Cable and some of the even more outrageous "Botique" cable supplier who sell cables that cost like $1000/ft!).
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post #3926 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kent2174 View Post

[FW108] installed via wireless successfully first time; remote lag is gone; watched several recorded shows last night--no issues.
Could this be the beginning of the an almost perfect DVR.....

 

It might not be the perfect DVR but it does seem to be working pretty well at this point given the recent interest in this forum about things external to the DVR+.

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post #3927 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 12:21 PM
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It might not be the perfect DVR but it does seem to be working pretty well at this point given the recent interest on this forum in things external to the DVR+.

 

It seems like the 108R update has made a lot of difference for some users. I didn't have any major complaints to begin with, but my unit is more routinely responsive than before the 108R update. :)

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post #3928 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Not really. You can still find HDMI cables that claim to offer superior performance and cost ten times more than normal cables, even though their performance would be the same. (A 1 is a 1, and a 0 is a 0, after all). Unchallenged dishonest marketing tactics are commonplace, especially when most people don't have the knowledge or resources necessary to challenge them.

All I can tell you is that, in my experience keeping 100 school bus DVRs running, AV drives last longer than regular ones. And Seagate last longer than WD. These are units which use 3.5" PATA units, so YMMV.

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #3929 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTAhead View Post

WOO HOO! HOORAY! To install the 106R update, I had get a memory stick, go to a friend's house about 10 miles from the cabin, and then load the 106R update through the memory stick... Today, I was able to successfully load the 108R updade wirelessly using the Verizon hotspot! YAY!
If you think about it a second -- the fact that you could use wireless to update to 108R means the wireless problem was actually fixed in 106R. smile.gif
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post #3930 of 4607 Old 06-07-2014, 03:43 PM
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For those reporting better results with the AV EHDs, that's cool . . . . Perhaps those who routinely experience stutter even when receiving strong signals should look into this option...
I think that is the point of the whole discussion.

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