Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

...
Presumably the DVR+ will be similar. Rovi will probably have guides for the major networks, but depending on your market, some stations may have the much shorter PSIP guides and a few LP stations won't have any meaningful guide info.
we need wait just a few days, everything will be checked - don't spend your precious Xmas time for more speculations wink.gif
I didn't word that quite the way I meant to. I didn't mean to discourage anyone from buying. I really meant it more as a thing to watch out for, once these DVRs start shipping out across the country. There have been lots of pre-orders, so as you say we'll see soon. Hopefully LenL's experience with the Rovi guide in his Samsung TV (see below) will be the norm, and channels with only PSIP data or "No Information Available" will be rare.
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My Samsung TV has apps and internet connection. One of the apps is ROVI TV listings. I checked the listings and in my NY local broadcast area the listings for ALL the local broadcast stations (must be close to 100 including substations although at my location I only get about 50) shows 7 days of guide data. So I would expect this DVR to provide 7 days if using ROVI. The guide is populated with ads though.

Tribune Media has guide data for about 90% of the channels in DFW, and the few that aren't listed are mostly infomercials and locally-originated programming, so it's certainly possible. OTA TVGoS wasn't nearly as complete, but perhaps they knew they were moving over to the Internet, and so never really gave the OTA service the attention it needed.

BTW, from watching DaveZatz's video, it appears the guide is a semi-transparent overlay of the bottom half of the screen, which leaves no place for ads. (I guess CM, E*, and Rovi worked something out to avoid ads.)

The length of Rovi's Internet guides appears to vary a great deal. Many devices reportedly show only 2-3 days; your Samsung shows 7; and the DVR+ is supposed to be 14. Probably depends on how much the manufacturer is willing to pay Rovi per unit to license their software and guide data.
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post #452 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post

The fact that this device was not ready for release BEFORE the number 1 sales season (Xmas in the US) is cause for wonderment. Everyone and their brother are gobbling up tech toys NOW! Not in Jan.
They missed. Simple.TV missed with their V2 DVR. Sony missed with the PS3. It's a shame, but I seriously doubt anyone who could not get the DVR for Christmas will delay the purchase until next Christmas. They will generate sales once reviews and word of mouth create excitement beyond the group that has been waiting three years for this DVR. By next Christmas, they will likely have a lot of apps as well.
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post #453 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 06:23 PM
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Interesting moment: ROVI took the plunge AFTER they get our money (as a part of DVR's price) frown.gif
I always expected to get a post card from some law office about a class action suit. Still do.
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post #454 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 06:27 PM
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Rovi, eh?  They used to be Macrovision.  This unit is bundled with a Service.  So instead of a contract, I get a disclaimer...From MACROVISION!

Deal Breaker!

And I'm not too wild about the form factor, either.  I'm sticking with my Homework and Iview units.  Pretty used to them, and they're a known quantity.

Next contestant, please...


ANYthing but Cable!
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post #455 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 06:38 PM
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inexpensive HDMI->RCA composite converter

Which means it downconverts the signal, which then becomes no longer HD.  I'd pay 10 bucks.


ANYthing but Cable!
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post #456 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 06:41 PM
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1. I forgot about that being mentioned, can't remember everything,
2. But, does that apply here? Sony got's it Guide from Rovi also until they pulled the plug. Then nothing.
3. "Should" is speculation.
I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. Try around a buck apiece;
http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Electronic-Batteries-batteries-Lithium/dp/B0002DSVS8

.
Ebay is your friend...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Lithium-CR2032-3V-Cell-Coin-Button-Battery-Batteries-/161096181636?pt=US_Single_Use_Batteries&hash=item258214a784 -- $0.37ish
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post #457 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 08:14 PM
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I always expected to get a post card from some law office about a class action suit. Still do.

And I, doubt that you ever will.
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post #458 of 4261 Old 12-26-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technopundit View Post

Rovi, eh?  They used to be Macrovision.  This unit is bundled with a Service.  So instead of a contract, I get a disclaimer...From MACROVISION!
Deal Breaker!
And I'm not too wild about the form factor, either.  I'm sticking with my Homework and Iview units.  Pretty used to them, and they're a known quantity.
Next contestant, please...
You don't have to use Rovi's guide. You can leave the DVR+ disconnected from the Internet, and you'll still get a PSIP-based guide, just like the Homeworx and iView (except it's a multichannel, grid-style guide instead of just showing the current channel).
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Originally Posted by Technopundit View Post

Which means it downconverts the signal, which then becomes no longer HD.
That was the point: to allow a hook-up to an older SDTV. My beef with the DVR+ was that it "forgot" those outputs, even though there are still quite a few older TV sets around.
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post #459 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 05:39 AM
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I hope all the discussion of what the DVR+ isn't doesn't discourage people who are looking for exactly what it is -- an inexpensive DVR that can be run untethered with flexible, inexpensive storage options and an intuitive user interface which adds a rich guide experience when connected to the internet. Netflix, Amazon Instant, and a few other internet apps will make this the perfect set top box for cord cutters.
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post #460 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 06:29 AM
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I sent this question to channel master a few days ago.

Can a different usb wifi adapter/antenna be used to recieve further away wifi signals for the new DVR+.

 

Only the Channel Master Adapter is compatible or direct Ethernet connection.

Channel Master Support

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post #461 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 06:34 AM
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WIZWOR,

It is NOT inexpensive when you consider it does NOT come with a Hard drive and only has 2 tuners.

If it came with 3 tuners then I would say the price is nice or If it came with a 2 TB hard drive than I would say the price is nice

For $250 and no hard drive and only 2 tuners this is NOT inexpensive. For that money I could buy 5 single tuner DVRS currently available and record 5 shows at once.

The correct price point for this NO hard drive 2 tuner device is about $100. However given there is little to zero competition they can try to get whatever they can from you folks. Caveat emptor.
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post #462 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post

WIZWOR,

It is NOT inexpensive when you consider it does NOT come with a Hard drive and only has 2 tuners.

A TiVi Premier with two tuners and 75 hours of HD with Lifetime costs $550 (TiVo.com today). A DVR+ with 240 hours cost $380 (ChannelMaster.com today, Staples.com today). With the remaining $170, I could add a Simple.TV whole house DVR and a 2t disk (moofi.woot.com today, staples.com today).
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If it came with 3 tuners then I would say the price is nice or If it came with a 2 TB hard drive than I would say the price is nice

For most people, the ability to record a show while watching another is the tuner sweet spot. If you are recording a lot of shows in the background all the time, I suggest you look at a whole house DVR.
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post

For $250 and no hard drive and only 2 tuners this is NOT inexpensive. For that money I could buy 5 single tuner DVRS currently available and record 5 shows at once.

How exactly would you use/manage that array of single tuner DVRs? Take a look at this (scroll down to A Poor Man's TiVo)...

http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/12/24/simply-awesome/
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post

The correct price point for this NO hard drive 2 tuner device is about $100. However given there is little to zero competition they can try to get whatever they can from you folks. Caveat emptor.

The market determines the correct price. Take your $100 shopping and see what you can come up with. The 1T Phillips HDR5750F7 I am replacing with the DVR+ costs $299.99. The market (me) chose the DVR+ over the HDR5750F7 at the same price.
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post #463 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 09:42 AM
 
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I don't see the Channel Master DVR+ listed on the Staples website. Can you provide a direct link if it is there?
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post #464 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 10:02 AM
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I don't see the Channel Master DVR+ listed on the Staples website. Can you provide a direct link if it is there?
that's where I priced the disks
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post #465 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 10:45 AM
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I agree but I want 1 anyway. I am still waiting to hear when mine will ship. Meanwhile while I wait on channel master I ordered a simple tv from woot for $102 with tax and shipping. I ordered the CM on Dec 16th and I bet I receive the simple tv first.
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post #466 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 10:45 AM
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Wizwor,

I was just explaining why this DVR is expensive and not inexpensive (your words) as you would want us to believe.

I can buy 2 single tuner IVIEW or Homeworx DVRs for 80 bucks that will give me pretty much the same OTA functionality of this box plus they have some cable capability. Plus they have very small footprints.
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post #467 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 10:47 AM
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I called Solid Signal today to see if they are currently accepting pre-orders for the Channel Master DVR+ at this time seeing that it is currently listed on their website. I was told that they will not be accepting any orders until the DVR+ is actually in stock and that the price will not be posted on their website until then.
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post #468 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


You don't have to use Rovi's guide. You can leave the DVR+ disconnected from the Internet, and you'll still get a PSIP-based guide, just like the Homeworx and iView (except it's a multichannel, grid-style guide instead of just showing the current channel).
That was the point: to allow a hook-up to an older SDTV. My beef with the DVR+ was that it "forgot" those outputs, even though there are still quite a few older TV sets around.

Why pay for the Rovi guide if I can't trust them?  Why should I support Macrovision after all those years of them screwing up my video?

Yeh, yeh, the Iview will downconvert to SD, too.

"Ya pay for this and they give ya that."


ANYthing but Cable!
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post #469 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Wizwor,

I was just explaining why this DVR is expensive and not inexpensive (your words) as you would want us to believe.

I can buy 2 single tuner IVIEW or Homeworx DVRs for 80 bucks that will give me pretty much the same OTA functionality of this box plus they have some cable capability. Plus they have very small footprints.
I am familiar with those DVRs and don't think they are in the same class as the DVR+. "Pretty much" is a term of art. If you are content with what those devices do, then, by all means, go for it. At the other end of the spectrum are the TiVo devices. They are much more expensive, but do more. If a consumer wants/needs those things, then that is the right device.

The DTVPal/DVR+ devices land in the middle of this and *I* consider that the 'sweet spot' of consumer DVRs. That's not ME, btw. I'm a hobbyist. I am loving the Simple DVRs. I have four of them recording and serving up content all day long. I have toyed with WMC and MythTV, and Boxee and just about everything else. It is my wife, though, and her mother, and my mother, and just about everyone else I know.

While there are a bunch of simple DVR solutions that are less expensive than the DVR+, I do not consider them worthy. Even the Phillips is not comparable (to me) to the DVR+. There are devices that are more capable as well, but they are much more expensive and I would not pay the premium for their features. For what you get -- what I want -- the DVR+ is inexpensive to me.
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post #470 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mikebw22 View Post

I sent this question to channel master a few days ago.
Can a different usb wifi adapter/antenna be used to recieve further away wifi signals for the new DVR+.

Only the Channel Master Adapter is compatible or direct Ethernet connection.



Channel Master Support



The 610R euro version calls out the TP-LINK TL-WN821N in the user guide. Channel Master is not building this hardware. I would guess that Echostar gave them a list of USB WiFi adapters that would work and they picked the one they're selling, probably based on cost. It looks more like the TL-WN823N than the 821N.
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post #471 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:01 PM
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The 610R euro version calls out the TP-LINK TL-WN821N in the user guide. Channel Master is not building this hardware. I would guess that Echostar gave them a list of USB WiFi adapters that would work and they picked the one they're selling, probably based on cost. It looks more like the TL-WN823N than the 821N.
I am guessing this is one of those 'on the safe side' responses. When people get these home, some will test disks and wifi dongles and we will cobble together a list of stuff that works. With the Simple DVRs, they said 'virtually any' USB disk would work and people are crazy over the fact that many don't. If you have a dongle with a radion whose drivers are on the firmware, it will work. To be safe, use the supported hardware.
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post #472 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post

WIZWOR,

It is NOT inexpensive when you consider it does NOT come with a Hard drive and only has 2 tuners.

If it came with 3 tuners then I would say the price is nice or If it came with a 2 TB hard drive than I would say the price is nice

For $250 and no hard drive and only 2 tuners this is NOT inexpensive. For that money I could buy 5 single tuner DVRS currently available and record 5 shows at once.

The correct price point for this NO hard drive 2 tuner device is about $100. However given there is little to zero competition they can try to get whatever they can from you folks. Caveat emptor.
In case if some one want to build HTPC with multiple OTA/8VSB/QAM/DVB-T cards - Fry's have on sale for $9.99
http://www.frys.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=6237190&submit.x=12&submit.y=9&cat=0
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post #473 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

I am guessing this is one of those 'on the safe side' responses. When people get these home, some will test disks and wifi dongles and we will cobble together a list of stuff that works. With the Simple DVRs, they said 'virtually any' USB disk would work and people are crazy over the fact that many don't. If you have a dongle with a radion whose drivers are on the firmware, it will work. To be safe, use the supported hardware.
when we will have it, we will check inside out the compatibility wink.gif
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post #474 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:08 PM
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OK I see Technopundit's first point now. If you buy the DVR+, some of that money goes to Rovi fka Macrovision for the guide (whether you use it or not), and you might not want any of your money going to that company. That's a reasonable objection.

Unfortunately, if you want a decent guide, there aren't a lot of alternatives. The biggest weakness of low-end DVRs like the iView/Homeworx, and even most mid-range DVRs like the PHD-VRX(2) and TViX 6620, is the guide. They're generally PSIP-based and show only one station at a time. If you want a 14-day, multi-channel, grid-based guide, your alternatives are TiVo, a PC, or an XBox One, all of which are way more than a DVR+ and HDD.

On his second point, yes I know the iView/Homeworx have SD outputs. (I have one - for the price, they're really nice!) But again, if I want that guide, the cost of a DVR+ and an HDMI down-converter still beats TiVo!

I understand I'm paying for the guide, so the fact that it's around $300 once a decent HDD is added doesn't bother me that much. After all, my first Pal cost $350; this will have twice the guide and more storage (plus name-based recording, the ability to offload recordings, etc.) for less money. I understand folks are disappointed it only has two tuners, same as the old Pal; if that's a show-stopper for you, don't buy it. Maybe CM will order a 3-tuner version from E* and sell it for $50 more if there's enough demand.

But what does bother me somewhat is the nickel-and-dime aspect: if I want SD outputs for my old TV, I have to add a box; if I want to use the tuner in my new TV, I have to add an RF splitter; if I want the Internet guide, I either have to run Cat5 cable, install CM's overpriced WiFi adapter, or install some sort of Ethernet bridge. All those extras start to add up. Really - would built-in WiFi, a second F-connector, and SD outputs have cost that much more?
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post #475 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:20 PM
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If you paid $350 for the first PALDVRS than you will like the price of this box.

I too was an early PALDVR buyer and only paid $249 from Solid Signal and bought my second one from Sears for $199. They both came with 250 GB SATA hard drives and TVGOS ability.

You would think that a DVR with 2 tuners and NO hard drive that came out today ( 3 or more years later) would be even cheaper. It should be. It's not bringing any newer or better features!
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post #476 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

I am guessing this is one of those 'on the safe side' responses. When people get these home, some will test disks and wifi dongles and we will cobble together a list of stuff that works. With the Simple DVRs, they said 'virtually any' USB disk would work and people are crazy over the fact that many don't. If you have a dongle with a radion whose drivers are on the firmware, it will work. To be safe, use the supported hardware.

True, and I didn't really address his question. what he needs is a WiFi extender in his house. Those USB adapters don't have the highest gain antennas and he'd be trying to boost the receive range for every device. An extender would solve all his issues.
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post #477 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

If you paid $350 for the first PALDVRS than you will like the price of this box.

I too was an early PALDVR buyer and only paid $249 from Solid Signal and bought my second one from Sears for $199. They both came with 250 GB SATA hard drives and TVGOS ability.

You would think that a DVR with 2 tuners and NO hard drive that came out today ( 3 or more years later) would be even cheaper. It should be. It's not bringing any newer or better features!
Let's just agree to disagree.
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post #478 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

For $250 and no hard drive and only 2 tuners this is NOT inexpensive. For that money I could buy 5 single tuner DVRS currently available and record 5 shows at once.
I think you'd find that harder than you realize.

First, the iView & Homeworx cannot share HDDs. You'd have to buy not only five boxes, but five drives. That's nearly $500 right there.

But to get in the ballpark, let's say three shows at once instead of five. You need 3 HDDs, a Homeworx, and iView, and a similar box of another brand. Why? Because if you bought, say, 3 Homeworxes, the remotes would interfere with each other! (The Pal is the only DVR I know of with selectable remote IDs.)

You'd also need 3 HDMI cables (or sets of component cables) from your 3 boxes to your TV - not to mention an RF splitter to feed the 3 boxes (daisy-chaining only works up to a point, as each box distorts the RF signal a bit - perhaps you could split the signal to feed 2 boxes, then daisy-chain the TV behind one and the third box behind the second).

Now, you're looking at about the same price, and yes, you could record three shows at once. But you give up the nice guide and name-based recording, and the 3-box solution is certainly more cumbersome.

All things considered, I'd say the DVR+ comes out ahead. At best it's a wash.
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post #479 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

If you paid $350 for the first PALDVRS than you will like the price of this box.

I too was an early PALDVR buyer and only paid $249 from Solid Signal and bought my second one from Sears for $199. They both came with 250 GB SATA hard drives and TVGOS ability.

You would think that a DVR with 2 tuners and NO hard drive that came out today ( 3 or more years later) would be even cheaper. It should be. It's not bringing any newer or better features!
I think that history will reoccur - we should see drop in the price after year of sales ... I'm agree, the model should be $50 less as there is no HDD, what would procure the price drop


initial price always going high by a typical marketing motto "lets make price high as we can"
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post #480 of 4261 Old 12-27-2013, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

I think that history will reoccur - we should see drop in the price after year of sales ... I'm agree, the model should be $50 less as there is no HDD, what would procure the price drop


initial price always going high by a typical marketing motto "lets make price high as we can"
I hope you are wrong. I think $250 is an attractive price and I hope CM makes enough money to continue to update the software with more capability (collaboration) and apps (Netflix, Amazon, etc.).
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