Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 161 - AVS Forum
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post #4801 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post
That's correct. You must be watching the channel for it to save it. Also it wouldn't know which of the two tuners you wanted it to buffer.

.
Well, it should simply use the tuner I was watching when I went to select a recording, of course. My (very) old DVR didn't outperform the DVR+ in many ways, but this is definitely one where it did! We should not be moving backward in our technology.

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post #4802 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SirCrow View Post
But there just seem to be too many features and functions missing that should be standard in any mid-priced DVR today. I strongly suspect that I'd be disappointed in TiVo, considering its inflated price. I guess I just expect too much today.
Everyone has their notion of
Value = Performance/Price
and often it doesn't correspond with market reality. You may feel the feature set of the DVR+ is below your expectations but in the market place, nothing touches it in its price class.

Use your DVR+ and enjoy it for what it is and you will quickly adapt to its feature set. Maybe the DVR+ v2 will give you more of what you want.
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post #4803 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Consider opposite outcome; just to know - start/stop time is make much more problems then constant spinning.
The stop time can't possibly be problematic, being as the drive does it on its own. Startup delay? What could possibly be the problem? 10-15 seconds or whatever before a scheduled recording: "Ping" the media to wake it up and Bob's your uncle. My wife's three-year-old DVD recorder was "smart" enough to fire up the drive in advance so as to start a recording on time, as were the two DVD recorders before that one and every VCR I've ever owned... for the last... 35 years?

IMO it makes no more sense to keep media spinning 24x7 because it _might_ be used than it does to leave a room's lights on 24x7 because somebody _might_ use it.

IMO there is absolutely no excuse for this whatsoever.

Jim
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post #4804 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
10-15 seconds or whatever before a scheduled recording: "Ping" the media to wake it up
That would seem to make sense. If they can send it a command every so often now to keep it spinning why not just do it before there is a demand. I can only think that it was probably more expedient (and less likely to introduce new bugs) to modify the firmware to add the periodic ping than to dig into the scheduling routines and start to modify them.

Either way, the firmware people have probably traced some dependability and recording problems to spun-down drives.

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post #4805 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Everyone has their notion of
Value = Performance/Price
and often it doesn't correspond with market reality. You may feel the feature set of the DVR+ is below your expectations but in the market place, nothing touches it in its price class.

Use your DVR+ and enjoy it for what it is and you will quickly adapt to its feature set. Maybe the DVR+ v2 will give you more of what you want.
Are you aware of a version 2 of the DVR+ that is going to come to market?
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post #4806 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:19 PM
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Delete.

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post #4807 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:29 PM
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With only two tuners how practical is it? Hopefully not a lot of people live in the whole house.
Well apparently they think it is pretty practical. I asked them about it on facebook and got this response:

Yes! In fact, sometime in the next month or so we plan to have a public forum discussion right here on this Facebook page about that very feature. There are some implementation options, several ways we could go, and we're going to want your input!
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post #4808 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:31 PM
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Well apparently they think it is pretty practical. I asked them about it on facebook and got this response:

Yes! In fact, sometime in the next month or so we plan to have a public forum discussion right here on this Facebook page about that very feature. There are some implementation options, several ways we could go, and we're going to want your input!
As far as a timeline on implementation I just got this back: It will be 2015, shooting for Q1 but not definite. Fingers crossed! Having customer input will help determine.
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post #4809 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:51 PM
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One more tidbit: Cable and satellite companies use coax/MoCA networking for whole home DVR. This is not feasible for a consumer-installation product, so we're focused on wifi, which presents several different options, both have their pros and cons.
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post #4810 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
Well apparently they think it is pretty practical.
Sounds like it. After a year they can't even decide what it should do...
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post #4811 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
As far as a timeline on implementation I just got this back: It will be 2015, shooting for Q1 but not definite. Fingers crossed! Having customer input will help determine.
I just went to their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/mychannelmaster) and didn't see anything. Was your exchange a private message?
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post #4812 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
... You may feel the feature set of the DVR+ is below your expectations but in the market place, nothing touches it in its price class.

Use your DVR+ and enjoy it for what it is and you will quickly adapt to its feature set. Maybe the DVR+ v2 will give you more of what you want.
Yes, I will enjoy it as much as I can. But I must address your v2 reference this way: I am not -- and I can't stress this strongly enough -- one of those who rush to buy the latest iPhone, iPad, iPod -- iDon'tCareWhat -- as soon as it comes out. And that goes for my TV recorders as well. I bought my pre-owned Sony DGH-HDD250 several yrs. ago, and kept it long after it lost the use of TV Guide On Screen. And when it lost its mind, crashing once a month (resetting itself to 1 Jan. 2004 each time, with no way to set time/date manually), refusing to let me manually delete recordings, and so on -- I still stuck with it for months. Too many months.

So, you see, it wouldn't be DVR+ v2 that I'd buy to replace the current one; it'd be more like v5 or v6.....v8, maybe? Which means, of course, that I'm stuck with whatever this model has to offer for quite some time. So, I really hope the firmware people won't let down folks like me, even if we are in the minority.

THIS JUST IN: I just read online that if I enter 00000 as the ZIP code on my Sony, the crashes should be far less likely. Had I known this, I might not have purchased the DVR+!! Sure, I wouldn't have the guide, 2 tuners and whatnot, but I would still have chapter markers, and a bunch of other stuff that I now miss! Think I'll reconnect the Sony and see what happens. And if I decide to return my DVR+, perhaps I'll find that a future version of it has the things I don't wanna give up. And then, maybe I will become a truly happy DVR+ customer -- someday!

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post #4813 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 06:24 PM
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There are methods to set the time and day-of week on the Sony. Nothing but VHS tapes will set the year. I have four, with one in service that needs the time set for DST change and has never had a lockup (zipcode 00000). No guide, but easy manual recording. It's just a hobby and not a toaster.
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post #4814 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Russell_ View Post
I just went to their Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/mychannelmaster) and didn't see anything. Was your exchange a private message?
Yes it was a private exchange i messaged them about. I posted their responses. You can choose to believe me or not. You should get a similar response if you would inquire about it.
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post #4815 of 5179 Old 09-20-2014, 11:08 PM
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I've heard both sides of this story. But is there strong evidence that supports one over the other? That's what I'd like to know, once and for all.
Thanks.
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post #4816 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 04:10 AM
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"...Cable and satellite companies use coax/MoCA networking for whole home DVR. This is not feasible for a consumer-installation product, so we're focused on WiFi which presents several different options, both have their pros and cons. .."


Using their low powered, anemic, unreliable official Dongle? You've GOT to be kidding!
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post #4817 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 05:49 AM
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Hard Drives and Flourescent Lghts

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Originally Posted by SEMIJim View Post
The stop time can't possibly be problematic, being as the drive does it on its own. Startup delay? What could possibly be the problem? 10-15 seconds or whatever before a scheduled recording: "Ping" the media to wake it up and Bob's your uncle. My wife's three-year-old DVD recorder was "smart" enough to fire up the drive in advance so as to start a recording on time, as were the two DVD recorders before that one and every VCR I've ever owned... for the last... 35 years?

IMO it makes no more sense to keep media spinning 24x7 because it _might_ be used than it does to leave a room's lights on 24x7 because somebody _might_ use it.

IMO there is absolutely no excuse for this whatsoever.

Jim
I don't know which is healthier for hard drives and I keep my mind open and not closed about it.


Perhaps you should think about the fluorescent light analogy. These lights which we are all familiar with fail more because of being turned on and off than if they are left on 24x7. So it may very well make sense to leave fluorescent lights on all the time or at least keep to a minimum turning them on and off. However being constantly turned on and off is not a problem for incandescent lights. So it comes down to technology and what kind of use the design is developed for.
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post #4818 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
One more tidbit: Cable and satellite companies use coax/MoCA networking for whole home DVR. This is not feasible for a consumer-installation product, so we're focused on wifi, which presents several different options, both have their pros and cons.
I have no confidence in a WiFi based solution. If it works at all it will be very limited in its capacity and range.

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post #4819 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I don't know which is healthier for hard drives and I keep my mind open and not closed about it.


Perhaps you should think about the fluorescent light analogy. These lights which we are all familiar with fail more because of being turned on and off than if they are left on 24x7. So it may very well make sense to leave fluorescent lights on all the time or at least keep to a minimum turning them on and off. However being constantly turned on and off is not a problem for incandescent lights. So it comes down to technology and what kind of use the design is developed for.
I will not update to the newest firmware because of this issue. If they spin up the drive every 20 minutes, and my drive spins down after being idle for 10 minutes (as it is set to do), then this will cause my drive to do 72 load cycles per day even if not used (it can go for days without being used). This would surely be terrible for my WD My Passport Ultra drive. I'll stick with the current firmware - no need for Pandora.
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post #4820 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
One more tidbit: Cable and satellite companies use coax/MoCA networking for whole home DVR. This is not feasible for a consumer-installation product, so we're focused on wifi, which presents several different options, both have their pros and cons.
apparently Tivo didnt get that memo. Neither did Channel Master themselves apparently: http://www.channelmasterstore.com/In..._p/cm-6004.htm



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post #4821 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I don't know which is healthier for hard drives and I keep my mind open and not closed about it.
Keeping an open mind is a good thing, so long as it's not so open a breeze is blowing through

Perhaps you missed the part where I wrote, earlier, that I'd been in the field of IT nearly 40 years? Before I did Systems and Network Admin (where I've used a very large variety of spinning media, over the years) I was a software designer. Before I was a software designer I was a computer hardware designer.

I know just a little bit about MTBF, start/stop cycling, the effect of prolonged temperature exposure vs. temperature variation, etc.

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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Perhaps you should think about the fluorescent light analogy.
Hard drives are not fluorescent lights, but okay: The fluorescent light equation boils down to the question of which causes more wear and energy expenditure: Cycling them or leaving them on? In the end it turns out to be a question of duty cycle. You can't just claim "turning them on causes an energy consumption spike and a shock to them, therefore leave them on." Leaving them on consumes energy, too, and causes wear. At some duty cycle ratio turning them off will increase their life expectancy and save energy. An extreme example: It's a pretty safe bet a fluorescent light that was turned on only once every ten years would outlive the one sitting right next to it that was never turned off, and consume a good deal less energy over that time. Conversely: Turning such lights on and off every few minutes would certainly increase energy usage and decrease lifespan.

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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
So it comes down to technology and what kind of use the design is developed for.
That is part of it.

Speaking of which: I would note that these little inexpensive drives were not designed for data center use. Drives designed for data center use are meant to run 24x7.

So, since we're keeping open minds and considering all angles, we might be given cause to wonder why, for example, Western Digital designed their My Passport series of external drives to sleep, by default, when they've been idle for a time?

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Originally Posted by frank70 View Post
I will not update to the newest firmware because of this issue. If they spin up the drive every 20 minutes, and my drive spins down after being idle for 10 minutes (as it is set to do), then this will cause my drive to do 72 load cycles per day ...
Yeesh

That, that somebody would have their suspend time-out set to less than CM's stupid "drive-pinging-keepalive" interval, never occurred to me. That would certainly have an exceedingly adverse effect on the lifespan of that drive.

Jim

Last edited by SEMIJim; 09-21-2014 at 07:11 AM.
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post #4822 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 09:21 AM
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Yes it was a private exchange i messaged them about. I posted their responses. You can choose to believe me or not. You should get a similar response if you would inquire about it.
I was not implying that I did not believe you. I was just curious if it was posted and then deleted which would have meant that (perhaps) plans had changed or that information was "leaked". I'm very interested in this feature just because I get much better reception in one location of my home and watch TV in a different location (and it's too difficult to run the coax to fix the issue) and could probably use this new feature (depending on how it works out). Since you're in PM contact with them, encourage them to use this forum for input.
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post #4823 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 11:37 AM
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SEMIJim,

No need to keep bringing up your credentials. We believe you are an IT Guy. I'm sure there are many on this forum with credentials equal or better who make their points without needing to boast.

I also know well respected engineers who would disagree with you.

As to who is right I don't know but I think way too much is made over the electrical cost of today's drives running 24x7 and the wear and tear. I have had drives running continuously live longer than drives that have been shut down when not in use.
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post #4824 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
One more tidbit: Cable and satellite companies use coax/MoCA networking for whole home DVR. This is not feasible for a consumer-installation product, so we're focused on wifi, which presents several different options, both have their pros and cons.
That is the stupidest statement I have heard in a long time. Anyone can plug a coax cable into the wall then the other end into a router type device o he DVR itself. They must be delusional.
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post #4825 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 12:09 PM
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Can you add a splitter to the DVR+ that allows you to record two programs and watch another at the same time? If so, can anyone recommend something?
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post #4826 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 12:12 PM
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That is the stupidest statement I have heard in a long time. Anyone can plug a coax cable into the wall then the other end into a router type device o he DVR itself. They must be delusional.
Well it is not possible for me. I just went through this with Tivo regarding my mini's. The way my house was wired I cannot make a Moca connection to utilize the Mini's. My internet coax wiring does not connect to my OTA antenna coax and was told that type of connection was impossible for me. So, maybe not so stupid since it may not be option for everyone.
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post #4827 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
Can you add a splitter to the DVR+ that allows you to record two programs and watch another at the same time? If so, can anyone recommend something?
why? it's standard function of the DVR...
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post #4828 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 01:02 PM
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why? it's standard function of the DVR...
How about because I asked? And because I read it would allow you to record two programs while watching a third (which out of the box it does not support)

Last edited by Warner2Bruce; 09-21-2014 at 01:10 PM.
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post #4829 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by LenL View Post
SEMIJim,

No need to keep bringing up your credentials. We believe you are an IT Guy. I'm sure there are many on this forum with credentials equal or better who make their points without needing to boast.
It's not boasting. It's just stating fact. How is one to judge the veracity of somebody's assertions absent some clue as to their knowledge, expertise, experience, etc.? Accept what they say at face value? Flip a coin?

In any event: It would appear we're not likely to reach agreement on this subject, so let's let it go.

Jim
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post #4830 of 5179 Old 09-21-2014, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner2Bruce View Post
Can you add a splitter to the DVR+ that allows you to record two programs and watch another at the same time? If so, can anyone recommend something?
P.Smith refers to the DVR+ ability to record two programs while watching a previously recorded program from the HDD. I assume you mean to record two programs from the DVR+ two tuners while watching a third program live from the HDTV's tuner.

No problems adding a passive splitter as long as your antenna signal is strong enough to handle being split in two and still providing adequate signal strength for reception. If not, invest in a powered splitter so there is no signal loss.

Channel Master sells nice powered splitters (also called distribution amps). I use one at my main media viewing area so I can split the antenna to the HDTV, TiVo, AVR and Silicon Dust HDHR network tuner.

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Last edited by Kelson; 09-21-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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