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post #31 of 4508 Old 07-24-2013, 10:21 AM
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Here's a posting at SolidSignal.com regarding the new Channel Master K77 DVRs.

On another note I called Channel Master and asked when the K77 DVRs would be available for purchase. I was told it would be "in the next 2 to 3 months-in the last quarter of this year."
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post #32 of 4508 Old 07-24-2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Here's a posting at SolidSignal.com regarding the new Channel Master K77 DVRs.
I don't know why people persist in thinking that quality guide data should be free.

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post #33 of 4508 Old 07-24-2013, 11:57 AM
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I don't know why people persist in thinking that quality guide data should be free.
if not pedaling a word "quality ", but use other one: reasonable or like that, that would means a week of info ... why not ? many stations do produce a week of PSIP info, perhaps more for giving to ROVI, TitanTV, etc
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post #34 of 4508 Old 07-24-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trp2525 View Post

Here's a posting at SolidSignal.com regarding the new Channel Master K77 DVRs.

On another note I called Channel Master and asked when the K77 DVRs would be available for purchase. I was told it would be "in the next 2 to 3 months-in the last quarter of this year."
That's what they told me as well. But if they are still in the development stage, then perhaps it may be more reasonable to expect sometime next year.
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post #35 of 4508 Old 07-24-2013, 02:57 PM
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.....if they are still in the development stage, then perhaps it may be more reasonable to expect sometime next year.

I would tend to think that this FCC approval to market a DVR in the USA without analog tuners is simply a formality and will not hold up development of the DVR. I would bet engineering and development are continuing at full-speed based on the eventual "official" FCC approval.

The DTVPal DVR was marketed and sold beginning in 2008. It did not have analog tuners and that was even before the digital transition took place in 2009. I therefore see no reason for this analog-tuner issue to hold up this new K77 DVR. Of course there could be delays for other reasons.....
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post #36 of 4508 Old 07-25-2013, 05:42 AM
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It is delays for other reasons that I am concerned about. The previous CM-7400 was pushed back a year if I recall correctly. But perhaps EchoStar is more of a proven performer and the K-77 will emerge sooner than later.
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post #37 of 4508 Old 07-25-2013, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

It is delays for other reasons that I am concerned about. The previous CM-7400 was pushed back a year if I recall correctly. But perhaps EchoStar is more of a proven performer and the K-77 will emerge sooner than later.
The original Dish DTVPal DVR (Echostar) was shipped a full year after it was announced. Then after release it took another 6 months (during which time sales were suspended for a couple months) to get the firmware debugged enough to make it marketable. Afterwards the product was orphaned and the firmware was never developed further. Don't depend on Echostar for timely performance.
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post #38 of 4508 Old 07-25-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

The original Dish DTVPal DVR (Echostar) was shipped a full year after it was announced. Then after release it took another 6 months (during which time sales were suspended for a couple months) to get the firmware debugged enough to make it marketable. Afterwards the product was orphaned and the firmware was never developed further. Don't depend on Echostar for timely performance.
Exactly !

It's well known history of the company: they never delivered in promised time. Usually new device come later in a year or two, with a lot of bugs.
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post #39 of 4508 Old 07-25-2013, 11:26 AM
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What I was trying to say was that the EchoStar DVR Pal version was more of a proven performer than the CM-7400 turned out to be from a different manufacturer. And usually it does seem to take a delay of a year or more after the product is first announced before it actually becomes available. It would be great if it appears by year's end, but I am skeptical.
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post #40 of 4508 Old 07-28-2013, 05:08 PM
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It's well known history of the company: they never delivered in promised time. Usually new device come later in a year or two, with a lot of bugs.

Just imagine the state of development were they to ship on time! Customers would be alpha testers. Or worse, if there is a name for such.
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It would be great if it appears by year's end, but I am skeptical.

IIRC, the Hopper appeared very shortly after it's announcement.
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post #41 of 4508 Old 07-28-2013, 05:33 PM
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shortly ? perhaps you didn't check FCC filling dates for the DVR; hint it was XiP813, that did confuse you;
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post #42 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 06:50 AM
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I would hope that they would not try and reinvent the wheel here.

1. They already have firmware that works (DTVPAL) that should be repurposed.

2..They already have hardware components that work (DTVPAL) that should be repurposed.

3. Hell, just take the same plastic box and stamp K77 on it!.

It's a NO brainer. They could do all that and sell it without a hard drive for $100 (we supply our own external) and I would be even happier!
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post #43 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 09:09 AM
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One problem with basing the new DVR on the Pal's firmware is that it'd end up using the Pal's proprietary file system, so your recordings would still be inaccessible / nontransferable to another device. That was OK on the self-contained Pal, but since the lower-end model of the new DVR is supposed to use a USB-attached HDD, I really hope they don't do that again. There's no reason for copy protection in an OTA DVR (or a clear QAM DVR, for that matter).

But in any case, I hope Echostar will closely replicate the same user interface. They've used that interface on not only the Pal but also the satellite products they made for Dish, so if you know how to use one Echostar product, you can pretty much use any of them.
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post #44 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

One problem with basing the new DVR on the Pal's firmware is that it'd end up using the Pal's proprietary file system, so your recordings would still be inaccessible / nontransferable to another device. That was OK on the self-contained Pal, but since the lower-end model of the new DVR is supposed to use a USB-attached HDD, I really hope they don't do that again. There's no reason for copy protection in an OTA DVR (or a clear QAM DVR, for that matter).

But in any case, I hope Echostar will closely replicate the same user interface. They've used that interface on not only the Pal but also the satellite products they made for Dish, so if you know how to use one Echostar product, you can pretty much use any of them.
I could add a couple cents about echostar's protection of recordings on the internal-external configuration.
They recently (in XiP line:813 and 913) switched back to well working XFS file system (they did use it for 721 and 921 old DVRs a few years ago) for internal drives; the XFS file system also get wide support in DTV DVRs.
For external [EHD] the choice was typical Linux EXT3 file system with mandatory encryption of recordings, that would include converted receivers [211, 211k, 411, 211z] to DVR for one time fee [$40].
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post #45 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 12:40 PM
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shortly ? perhaps you didn't check FCC filling dates for the DVR; hint it was XiP813, that did confuse you;

Well, yes, but I was referring to announcements, not FCC filings which, as we all know, don't always make it to a final, released product at all. The Hopper was announced during CES 2012, and released on March 15h of that same year.
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post #46 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

One problem with basing the new DVR on the Pal's firmware is that it'd end up using the Pal's proprietary file system, so your recordings would still be inaccessible / nontransferable to another device. That was OK on the self-contained Pal, but since the lower-end model of the new DVR is supposed to use a USB-attached HDD, I really hope they don't do that again. There's no reason for copy protection in an OTA DVR (or a clear QAM DVR, for that matter).

But in any case, I hope Echostar will closely replicate the same user interface. They've used that interface on not only the Pal but also the satellite products they made for Dish, so if you know how to use one Echostar product, you can pretty much use any of them.

Great point. Yes we would all like this box to NOT use a proprietary file system.

However if they were going to keep with the proprietary file system ...then using the DTVPAL firmware and not reinventing the wheel makes even more sense.

If they were going to dispense with the proprietary file system ...still use the DTVPAL firmware and make changes to it to support a file system that makes the recordings portable to other devices.
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post #47 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 01:11 PM
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What puzzles me is that an OTA DVR doesn't fit in with anything else Echostar offers in their product line. They make STB's and delivery equipment for cable & satellite. They already tried the OTA DVR market once and quit it with prejudice -- to the point of eradicating all references to the product on their website. Why would they want to get into this again.
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post #48 of 4508 Old 07-29-2013, 01:40 PM
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Perhaps second time is a charm ? smile.gif

I think they found a way for PayTV revenue finally; without the part new OTA DVR wouldn't be profitable for them as we saw a TR-50's dead with a smart card in jaws of it. biggrin.gif
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post #49 of 4508 Old 07-31-2013, 12:45 PM
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I would think the Pal software could be reused even with a file system change. That would likely entail rewriting only a single subroutine. This of course assumes standard language so that nothing must be rewritten just because there's a new compiler for the new chips.

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post #50 of 4508 Old 08-14-2013, 06:11 PM
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Channel Master's website is saying the new DVR is coming out in late 2013 or early 2014 and they will have a pre-order offer. Hope the offer is good for a least $50 like the DTVPal DVR was when we pre-ordered it.
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post #51 of 4508 Old 08-15-2013, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by andy416us View Post

Channel Master's website is saying the new DVR is coming out in late 2013 or early 2014 and they will have a pre-order offer...

Do you have a link to that information? I looked all over on the Channel Master website and also on the Channel Master Store website and couldn't find it anywhere.
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post #52 of 4508 Old 08-15-2013, 01:21 PM
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http://www.channelmasterstore.com/HD_DVR_receiver_for_antenna_p/cm-7000pal.htm

They're saying "pre-order offers," so I'm assuming they mean a discount offer... Who knows. Let's hope so.
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post #53 of 4508 Old 08-15-2013, 02:04 PM
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Just like CM to hide that info on the old Pal web page.

I just hope the new DVR is more like the CM-7000Pal. CM has had a string of "new and improved" products that aren't as good as the old, "unimproved" ones. The CM-7001 DTV receiver is in many ways worse than the CM-7000 converter box; the CM-7400 was worse than the CM-7000Pal, the "new and improved" CM-7777 preamp isn't as good as the old one, etc.

Edit: I guess even the early 2014 timetable was a little too specific for someone's comfort. But if "soon" doesn't mean by early 2014, it doesn't really mean anything rolleyes.gif
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post #54 of 4508 Old 08-15-2013, 02:16 PM
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Wow, their website now says "coming soon" instead of late 2013 or early 2014......
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post #55 of 4508 Old 08-15-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by andy416us View Post

Wow, their website now says "coming soon" instead of late 2013 or early 2014......

Someone from Channel Master must be reading this thread! eek.gif

Anyway here's exactly what it said earlier today on their website: "The CM-7000PAL has been discontinued and will be replaced with a new and improved DVR coming out late 2013 or early 2014."

Here's exactly what it says now: "The CM-7000PAL is discontinued and will be replaced with a new DVR coming soon."

So the "and improved" language has also been taken out.....maybe for the benefit of JHBrandt after they read his comments about their "unimproved" products on this thread! eek.gif
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post #56 of 4508 Old 08-15-2013, 05:21 PM
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Someone from Channel Master must be reading this thread! eek.gif

Anyway here's exactly what it said earlier today on their website: "The CM-7000PAL has been discontinued and will be replaced with a new and improved DVR coming out late 2013 or early 2014."

Here's exactly what it says now: "The CM-7000PAL is discontinued and will be replaced with a new DVR coming soon."

So the "and improved" language has also been taken out.....maybe for the benefit of JHBrandt after they read his comments about their "unimproved" products on this thread! eek.gif

LOL!biggrin.gif
Maybe we'll get a peek of how it looks, soon, hopefully before its release...wink.gif

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post #57 of 4508 Old 08-16-2013, 09:05 AM
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Cool cool.gif I hope they take our criticisms to heart. If they do, maybe the new DVR really will be an improvement this time.

As I've said before, my biggest worry is that Echostar will deliver another "closed-box" solution. That was fine when the CM-7000Pal was being sold, but the landscape is clearly changing. Folks today want to watch their recordings anywhere in the home. I know of three OTA DVR alternatives with open access to recordings: the TViX 6620, the PHD-VRX, and the iView/Homeworx.

To be fair, I suspect part of the "vision" of the Pal, back when Dish was selling it as the DTVPal, was to be able to receive some encrypted, pay content (a la Ion's "Airbox" service) as well as normal OTA content. That would explain both the closed-box design and the "smart cards" included with the DTVPal. CM didn't even remove the smart card slot when they started selling the Pals (they just sold the boxes with no card in the slot). Hopefully CM is not thinking along the same lines in "spec'ing out" the new DVR.

Prices have been going down too. The Homeworx is in most respects a better DTV receiver than the CM-7001, for about 1/3 the cost. Or add an external HDD, and you have at least minimal DVR capability for about the price of the CM-7001, which is only a receiver. Of course it has its own flaws, and I'd expect to pay more for a full-featured DVR with two good-quality tuners; but still under $270, I'd think. (Maybe somewhat more if it has a good warranty.)
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post #58 of 4508 Old 08-16-2013, 01:42 PM
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Hope springs eternal - I signed up for updates on the website. Maybe they'll need beta testers... (or should I say alpha testers? I'd say anyone who purchased any of their digital boxes was a beta tester!)

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #59 of 4508 Old 08-16-2013, 02:04 PM
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Well, to be fair, the CM-7000Pal was pretty mature when CM started selling it - but that's only because E* had worked out most of the bugs when Dish was selling it (as the DTVPal).

Too bad CM didn't stick with the Pal longer and request more fixes from E*. And yes, anyone buying a CM-7000 or CM-7001 receiver, or CM-7400 DVR, was an unwitting beta tester. (Although I don't have too many complaints about the CM-7000's bugs.)

If the new DVR is an improvement, I suggest they name it the CM-6999! Every time they increase the model number, something seems to get worse.
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post #60 of 4508 Old 08-25-2013, 08:20 AM
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Channel Master had better get this unit released or at least provide more details, that new Tivo basic with OTA capabilities looks interesting.
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