Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Does each tuner have an independent buffer or do they share a single buffer?
I don't know how to answer that. I can only view one tuner at a time. If I am watching live programming, it is buffered. If I am watching a show that is recorded/recording, I am watching off the disk. I suppose, technically, that means both are buffered. If I change channels, nothing is buffered. If I go from live to recorded and back again, nothing is buffered.
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post #632 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 11:38 AM
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So you're saying the buffer "starts" when you tune to the channel, and if you then tune to a different channel and then back to the original again, the buffer starts over. correct?

On the TiVo Premiers that have two tuners you can tune to one channel, then tune to another channel, then jump (swap) between them and each has it's own buffer. You can "rewind" each independently . . .

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post #633 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Irrespective of that, the "record all shows with the same name" function could certainly be enhanced to let you specify which channel(s) to record from. It could also be enhanced to let you specify only HD or only SD.
So I guess I didn't catch what the final answer was to the original question.

Assuming Rovi guide, if you select a program off the guide and request to record all of that name, does it record only from the parent channel you initially select (like a TiVo season pass) or does it scan the entire guide and record the program from any channel it appears on (like a TiVo wishlist)?

I think it has been made clear that it doesn't have the ability to select only new episodes.

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post #634 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

I don't know how to answer that. I can only view one tuner at a time. If I am watching live programming, it is buffered. If I am watching a show that is recorded/recording, I am watching off the disk. I suppose, technically, that means both are buffered. If I change channels, nothing is buffered. If I go from live to recorded and back again, nothing is buffered.

Ah, OK. You have two tuners. You are not actively recording anything so both tuners are "free". Tuner #1 is set to channel "A" and tuner #2 is set to channel "B".
So first you are watching channel "A" on tuner #1. Can you pause live TV on Tuner #1, switch to tuner #2 and watch channel "B" for a while then pause TV on tuner #2 and switch back to tuner #1 and pick up on channel "A" where you left off?

This all presupposes that there is a button on the remote or a menu function that lets you switch between the two tuners. If there is not and you cannot switch back and forth between the two tuners then my question is irrelevant.

- kelson h

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post #635 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:16 PM
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No. Tuner manipulation occurs in the background. No explicit control. It appears that one tuner is used to watch television and the second only kicks in when a recording begins. Nothing is buffered through a channel change. I have two shows set to record at the same time this afternoon to see what happens when I am watching something and two other shows are scheduled to record.
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post #636 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

No. Tuner manipulation occurs in the background. No explicit control. It appears that one tuner is used to watch television and the second only kicks in when a recording begins. Nothing is buffered through a channel change.

OK, thanks for that info.

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post #637 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

No. Tuner manipulation occurs in the background. No explicit control. It appears that one tuner is used to watch television and the second only kicks in when a recording begins. Nothing is buffered through a channel change. I have two shows set to record at the same time this afternoon to see what happens when I am watching something and two other shows are scheduled to record.


With two tuners you will be forced to watch one show record in real time. But any variation will be quite amazing.

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post #638 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post


No, with a splitter in your antenna line, you can watch a live program on your TV AND record two programs at once on the DVR+.

You're right. I read "one tuner is used to watch television" to not having much to affect the buffer topic. My splitter allows me to watch a clear QAM channel on the TV while my TV records two different channels. The TV doesn't have a buffer.

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post #639 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wiscojim:
"No, with a splitter in your antenna line, you can watch a live program on your TV AND record two programs at once on the DVR+."

Wow.. Just think what you could do with TWO splitters biggrin.gif

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post #640 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Originally Posted by wiscojim:
"No, with a splitter in your antenna line, you can watch a live program on your TV AND record two programs at once on the DVR+."

Wow.. Just think what you could do with TWO splitters biggrin.gif


I like the Radio Shack 1 to 4 splitter. I can record two on the TiVo, one on the Magnavox, one on the Sony and still watch live TV from the Maggie pass through. Just to touch reality, this seems like a nice unit for OTA. I'd say really nice, but I saw Rovi mentioned.

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post #641 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Irrespective of that, the "record all shows with the same name" function could certainly be enhanced to let you specify which channel(s) to record from. It could also be enhanced to let you specify only HD or only SD.
So I guess I didn't catch what the final answer was to the original question.

Assuming Rovi guide, if you select a program off the guide and request to record all of that name, does it record only from the parent channel you initially select (like a TiVo season pass) or does it scan the entire guide and record the program from any channel it appears on (like a TiVo wishlist)?

I think it has been made clear that it doesn't have the ability to select only new episodes.
Maybe I misread. I thought it was answered "no" - if you record all shows with the same name, it records that show from any channel it's on. Bad news for shows like The Simpsons, I Spy, etc., which are all over the dial. I was just suggesting that CM could/should change this in the future so you could choose whether to record just that channel or all channels (or all HD channels, etc.).
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post #642 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

I don't know how to answer that. I can only view one tuner at a time. If I am watching live programming, it is buffered. If I am watching a show that is recorded/recording, I am watching off the disk. I suppose, technically, that means both are buffered. If I change channels, nothing is buffered. If I go from live to recorded and back again, nothing is buffered.

Ah, OK. You have two tuners. You are not actively recording anything so both tuners are "free". Tuner #1 is set to channel "A" and tuner #2 is set to channel "B".
So first you are watching channel "A" on tuner #1. Can you pause live TV on Tuner #1, switch to tuner #2 and watch channel "B" for a while then pause TV on tuner #2 and switch back to tuner #1 and pick up on channel "A" where you left off?

This all presupposes that there is a button on the remote or a menu function that lets you switch between the two tuners. If there is not and you cannot switch back and forth between the two tuners then my question is irrelevant.
There is a "back" button on the remote to switch back to the previously-watched channel. Unfortunately, AFAIK the function you're asking about is unique to TiVo.

TiVo buffers both the channel currently being watched and the previously-watched channel, using two tuners. When you use their version of the "back" button, instead of switching to the live broadcast, it switches to the buffer of the previously-watched channel so you don't miss anything. Sports fans like this because they can easily watch two games at once. (Of course in a 2-tuner DVR like the DVR+ or the older TiVos, that only works if neither tuner is recording a show.)

I've never seen it on another DVR though. Probably one of TiVo's patented features.

You could probably do something similar by recording both shows (even if you didn't intend to keep either recording), but it'd be a lot more cumbersome; to switch back and forth, you'd have to select the other recording-in-progress from the list of recordings, then select "resume," instead of just pressing one button.
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post #643 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kent2174 View Post

... Last curiosity........the DVR controls are at the bottom of hand held. Previous devices, including Dish Network had the primary DVR keys towards the top.....which allowed me to hold the remote in hand to fast forward constantly, without looking, only using the finger to locate by feel.
Seems the design won't allow 'holding in hand' since you probably need to hold it in one hand while using fingers on other hand.....or much to do about nothing?
+1
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

I've been using the remote for two days. It's very comfortable to operate with one hand. The main control area surrounds a d-pad. Press the middle for ok. Move off the ok button onto the d-pad to navigate. Guide, Info, Exit, and Back (prev channel) are the four corners of a square around the d-pad. Home is to the left of the d-pad and cc is to the right. DVR is straight up from the d-pad. The four color coded buttons act as a second home. Volume and channel are rockers below the color buttons.

The remote is small enough that my thumb comfortable spans the remote held in the other four fingers. I'm confident you will have no problem using this remote with one hand.

wizwor, I don't think you addressed the main question. By "DVR controls" I think kent was asking about the "Playback controls" - play, pause, stop, FF/FR, skip ... located at the very bottom of the remote.

Can someone comment on if the remote allows you to use it without looking at it. Does it have good tactile cues, so you can pick it up in one hand and find all the often used buttons easily? Can someone compare the DVR+ remote to the DTVpal Dish remote?

I can pickup the DTVpal Dish remote and without looking - touch only - FW. RW, pause, slow-F-R, skip-F-R, play, stop, record, channel up-down, check guide, get info, enter a channel number 0-9 ... all with my thumb without repositioning the remote in my hand.

The DVR+ remote, with the playback controls at the bottom, looks like it will be more difficult to use.
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post #644 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

TiVo buffers both the channel currently being watched and the previously-watched channel, using two tuners. When you use their version of the "back" button, instead of switching to the live broadcast, it switches to the buffer of the previously-watched channel so you don't miss anything. [...] I've never seen it on another DVR though. Probably one of TiVo's patented features.

I think you're right about that, as not even popular PVR software such as MythTV lets you do it. For comparison, the TViX 6620 only buffers what you're currently watching, e.g. if you're buffering channel 3 and switch to channel 4, the screen will go black for a moment as you switch channels, and then you'll be watching channel 4. If you then rewind the recording, you'll move back to the content recorded from channel 3, and then the screen will go black and switch to channel 4 at the point in the recording where you switched channels. You're also not allowed to timeshift when a recording is in progress, IIRC.
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I do not understand the fascination with OTA sub-channels -- I've deleted all of them from my channel listings. I get OTA out of Philly. We have oodles of sub-channels and collectively they are a bunch of crap. The programming is trash and the low bitrate SD transmission looks like garbage on a 50" and above display.

You may not find anything interesting on sub-channels, but that doesn't mean they are useless to everyone. I, for one, am grateful for the opportunity to watch re-runs of shows I've never seen before on networks that could never have survived on broadcast TV in the NTSC days. It's a convenient and free way to try old shows before buying them on DVD, and I love it.
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post #645 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by happy2Lurk View Post

+1
wizwor, I don't think you addressed the main question. By "DVR controls" I think kent was asking about the "Playback controls" - play, pause, stop, FF/FR, skip ... located at the very bottom of the remote.

Can someone comment on if the remote allows you to use it without looking at it. Does it have good tactile cues, so you can pick it up in one hand and find all the often used buttons easily? Can someone compare the DVR+ remote to the DTVpal Dish remote?

I can pickup the DTVpal Dish remote and without looking - touch only - FW. RW, pause, slow-F-R, skip-F-R, play, stop, record, channel up-down, check guide, get info, enter a channel number 0-9 ... all with my thumb without repositioning the remote in my hand.

The DVR+ remote, with the playback controls at the bottom, looks like it will be more difficult to use.
I guess I just don't understand the challenge. The DVR controls are the bottom six controls. You can definitely access them with one hand. The layout is intuitive -- rew, pause, and ff on top then jog back, play, and jog forward, then record, stop, and audio.
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post #646 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy2Lurk View Post

I can pickup the DTVpal Dish remote and without looking - touch only - FW. RW, pause, slow-F-R, skip-F-R, play, stop, record, channel up-down, check guide, get info, enter a channel number 0-9 ... all with my thumb without repositioning the remote in my hand.

The DVR+ remote, with the playback controls at the bottom, looks like it will be more difficult to use.
If you find the DVR+ remote too cumbersome, you could always pick up a Dish 20.1 learning remote and teach it to operate the DVR+. It has very nearly the same layout as the DTVPal remote (although a bit heftier) and is usually under $10 at Amazon.

Edit: There may be one flaw with that idea. The Dish 20.1 remote has three sets of "up/down" buttons: 1. Volume up/down; 2. Combined channel and cursor up/down; 3. Page up/down. IIRC the DVR+ remote has four sets, as the channel up/down and cursor up/down buttons are separate on the DVR+ remote. So the Dish 20.1 remote may be short a few buttons.
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post #647 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post

I have two shows set to record at the same time this afternoon to see what happens when I am watching something and two other shows are scheduled to record.
Tuners both started recording as scheduled -- no prompt to cancel one to continue watching. I think this is probably best since an unattended prompt could mess up the recording while it's generally not that big a deal to stop the recording and resume live watching.

When I try to resume my live watching, I am prompted to interrupt my recording and can choose which program to interrupt. Very thoughtful smile.gif
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post #648 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wizwor View Post


Tuners both started recording as scheduled -- no prompt to cancel one to continue watching. I think this is probably best since an unattended prompt could mess up the recording while it's generally not that big a deal to stop the recording and resume live watching.

When I try to resume my live watching, I am prompted to interrupt my recording and can choose which program to interrupt. Very thoughtful smile.gif


Can you watch a previously recorded program while both tuners are recording?

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post #649 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 03:18 PM
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Can you watch a previously recorded program while both tuners are recording?
Yes and I can also jump to either of the shows currently recording. If you do this via the channel guide, you have the option of joining in progress or watching the recording.
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post #650 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post

You do NOT need the WiFi device if you plug your internet router directly into the back of the dvr. Which is by far the best way to do it.

My cable modem (internet only service) and wifi router rest right on top of my tv stand for easy access. My tv, my HTPC, Sony Blu-ray player, WDTVLIVE, Dish Network DVR, and satellite FTA receiver all plug into it directly, and only need fairly short cables.

Unfortunately, I live in a DMA in Michigan that only has a few OTA sub-channels, so it's basically NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and the CW. Not much. I wouldn't mind Metv, AntennaTv, Cozi, ThisTv...

I want California's broadcasting base! 30-50 channels I've heard, that's just unreal. lol

WiFi Device

Thanks, Primestar31. The only "internet router" I have is an ancient modem-router tethered to my desktop computer by an ethernet cable and providing a wireless internet connection to (1) my wife's computer downstairs and (2) my Roku connected to the TV set. The modem-router is too far from where the DVR will be to run a permanent connector (ethernet?)--through doorways and across rooms.

I suppose I need "The Channel Master CM-7500XWF Wi-Fi adapter [which] allows you to enjoy internet applications and enhanced program guide on the DVR+ wirelessly." So just what are these "internet applications"? Vudu? Not likely. "Enhanced program guide"? What if I just look at TitanTV? Firmware updates? What if I used a long ethernet cable for 10 minutes (I have one that will just reach)?

I'm not saying I won't buy the gizmo, but I do want to know I'll use (need) it.

--DawnSun

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post #651 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DawnSun View Post

WiFi Device

Thanks, Primestar31. The only "internet router" I have is an ancient modem-router tethered to my desktop computer by an ethernet cable and providing a wireless internet connection to (1) my wife's computer downstairs and (2) my Roku connected to the TV set. The modem-router is too far from where the DVR will be to run a permanent connector (ethernet?)--through doorways and across rooms.

I suppose I need "The Channel Master CM-7500XWF Wi-Fi adapter [which] allows you to enjoy internet applications and enhanced program guide on the DVR+ wirelessly." So just what are these "internet applications"? Vudu? Not likely. "Enhanced program guide"? What if I just look at TitanTV? Firmware updates? What if I used a long ethernet cable for 10 minutes (I have one that will just reach)?

I'm not saying I won't buy the gizmo, but I do want to know I'll use (need) it.

--DawnSun
Unless you want Vudu, you do not need an ethernet connection. I have been using this for two days with no ethernet connection. The PSIP guide is excellent.
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post #652 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 05:50 PM
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The PSIP guide is excellent.
That's only if your local stations are good with it. The stations around here have become very lazy with it lately. Some stations here have less than 6 hours of programming listed.
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post #653 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 05:50 PM
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Although applications other than Vudu have been promised, I'm with you; I'll believe it when I see them. However, don't underestimate the value of a 14-day guide.

The DTVPal has a PSIP-based guide, and for the Pal's time-based recordings it's often just fine. But many stations only provide the minimum 12 hours of guide; only a few provide over 48 hours. This makes it tricky to schedule recordings; you have to know when the show airs, then wait until the prior evening for it to show up so you can schedule it.

But I also use a DVR with a longer guide (WMC, if you must know). For name-based recordings like the DVR+ offers, a longer guide just makes it so much easier to plan recordings. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Now, I don't want to spend $40 just to get the thing hooked up to the Internet either, but it seems likely we'll soon discover a $20 alternative. Stay tuned wink.gif
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post #654 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post

I want California's broadcasting base! 30-50 channels I've heard, that's just unreal. lol


I am in the SFV about 35 miles from Mt. Wilson with my 30 year old UHF/VHF antenna pointed at it (antenna "flying" away from) and my DTVpal pulls in 151 locked channels most at high 90 signal strength! Great if you like infomercials! I hide more of them than not which leads to my question. On the DTVpal you can hide channels in the channel list and they are omitted from the guide but kept in memory. If you want to see it again you unhide it and can again view without re-scanning it. It sounds like you have to delete the channel in the DVR+ to remove it from the guide. So you have to remember the channel and then rescan to reacquire it. Is this true?
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post #655 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

For those ordering the CM-7500, Costco has 3TB Seagate Backup plus USB-3 external HDD's for $99 (limit=5).

Has anyone verified that this is the compatible Seagate STCA3000101 drive? Costco puts its own number on it and you can't tell by looking at the ad. Since it is available in stores only it is not online at Costco.com. Could it be a different drive?
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post #656 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 07:23 PM
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it would be very unlikely if any USB enclosure with any SATA drive will not works for K77
(perhaps future 8 TB drives ?)
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post #657 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ucmerick View Post

I am in the SFV about 35 miles from Mt. Wilson with my 30 year old UHF/VHF antenna pointed at it (antenna "flying" away from) and my DTVpal pulls in 151 locked channels most at high 90 signal strength! Great if you like infomercials! I hide more of them than not which leads to my question. On the DTVpal you can hide channels in the channel list and they are omitted from the guide but kept in memory. If you want to see it again you unhide it and can again view without re-scanning it. It sounds like you have to delete the channel in the DVR+ to remove it from the guide. So you have to remember the channel and then rescan to reacquire it. Is this true?

To clarify ucmerick's question, the DTVPal DVR has an option under Parental Controls to "lock" selected channels so they can only be accessed with the Parental controls password - but it has an additional option to hide "locked" channels so they don't appear in the guide and can't be accessed at all. Many of us DTVPal users take advantage of this combination of features to hide unwanted channels rather than deleting them. That way, if the programming changes from infomercials to something worth watching, we can just unlock that channel instead of having to rescan and re-delete other unwanted channels.

So, does the DVR+ have similar functions under its parental controls: locking selected channels, and hiding the locked ones?
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post #658 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

So, does the DVR+ have similar functions under its parental controls: locking selected channels, and hiding the locked ones?
I don't see that.
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post #659 of 4506 Old 01-02-2014, 11:27 PM
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I don't think I've seen anyone address this yet: if you schedule a recording based on the program name from PSIP, that would theoretically mean the DVR+ would need to be on all the time to update its guide data to check if the program you want to record is airing soon. Does this mean that the DVR+ never turns off or spins down the HDD when you're not using it, ala TiVo, or does it gather as much guide data as it can, decide when its next recording should take place, and then turn itself off? Does the behaviour change if you're using the Internet guide?
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post #660 of 4506 Old 01-03-2014, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I don't think I've seen anyone address this yet: if you schedule a recording based on the program name from PSIP, that would theoretically mean the DVR+ would need to be on all the time to update its guide data to check if the program you want to record is airing soon. Does this mean that the DVR+ never turns off or spins down the HDD when you're not using it, ala TiVo, or does it gather as much guide data as it can, decide when its next recording should take place, and then turn itself off? Does the behaviour change if you're using the Internet guide?

ALL normal dvr's stay on all the time. They may be in "screen-saver" mode, but they are really turned on in the background. The drive now may be in sleep mode though, and take a few seconds to spin up when it's due to record.
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