Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 248 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7411 of 7435 Old Today, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
Wonder if this is why CM has a 'preferred' hard drive list?
If that were truly the case, they'd be recommending the WD "My Passport Ultra" (portable) drive, since it "sleeps" by default after 30 minutes (right out of the package).
......while certain "recommended" Seagate drives would spin constantly!
People need to be less preoccupied with the fact that they recommend and especially.....sell Seagate drives exclusively.
Numerous other drives have worked perfectly well with the DVR+!

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post #7412 of 7435 Old Today, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by OTA_jay View Post
If that were truly the case, they'd be recommending the WD "My Passport Ultra" (portable) drive, since it "sleeps" by default after 30 minutes (right out of the package).
......while certain "recommended" Seagate drives would spin constantly!
People need to be less preoccupied with the fact that they recommend and especially.....sell Seagate drives exclusively.
Numerous other drives have worked perfectly well with the DVR+!
CM/E* still needs to put a priority on making the unit work with all current USB drives. I don't see any reason why they can't make it compatible to use larger drives also (so long as you don't exceed the 999 recordings limit). Hopefully the fix will be in the next FW release.

For me, spin down is not an issue. Never worried about it. Likely never will.

.
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post #7413 of 7435 Old Today, 09:58 AM
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Let's not forget that it is the devices responsibility, in this case the DVR+, to send out a USB sleep command when the system goes into standby.

I have media players with USB ports for attached HDD's. I have used externally powered Rosewill multi-drive enclosures with them as well as ready-built external USB drives (also externally powered). When the units go into standby, they send a USB sleep code which shuts down the drives. The units are still active on the network and any activity directed towards them causes the drives to spin up until the activity is complete then go to sleep again.

The DVR+ does not do that -- the designers obviously want the drive to spin constantly when the unit is in standby. Their recommended drives are ones that do not spin down on their own.

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post #7414 of 7435 Old Today, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTA_jay View Post
If that were truly the case, they'd be recommending the WD "My Passport Ultra" (portable) drive, since it "sleeps" by default after 30 minutes (right out of the package).
......while certain "recommended" Seagate drives would spin constantly!
People need to be less preoccupied with the fact that they recommend and especially.....sell Seagate drives exclusively.
Numerous other drives have worked perfectly well with the DVR+!
Not a fan of Seagate drives. But I'm not sure too many people are "preoccupied" by which drives CM recommends. Most of the people I have noticed are using drives they already have, or use their own preferred brand, or whatever is on sale at the time.

You can never be sure the reason a company recommends a particular drive- is it because they have tested hundreds of different drives for thousands of hours, or are they getting a kickback or some other remuneration?

I used to swear by Maxtor drives. Until I got a couple of clunkers that developed the 'click of death' way too soon. And I have had a couple of bad experiences with Seagates.

I suppose we each have our favorite.
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post #7415 of 7435 Old Today, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Let's not forget that it is the devices responsibility, in this case the DVR+, to send out a USB sleep command when the system goes into standby.-snip-The DVR+ does not do that -- the designers obviously want the drive to spin constantly when the unit is in standby. Their recommended drives are ones that do not spin down on their own.
I would tend to agree with this. But I don't know for sure. I don't remember anyone saying their external drive shut off completely when DVR+ is in stdby. Some have said their drives spin down.

My thinking is perhaps drive spinup/startup when waking from standby would take too long to suit CM/DVR+. You have to admit, it does start up and display video quickly. Not so much after being unplugged.

I will perform a test,
-Put DVR+ in stdby
-turn off power to ext drive
-simultaneously turn on DVR+ and drive

I suspect it will kick and scream about no drive connected, or "confirm this drive" or some such issue. If no problems, I will build a circuit to shut down my drive when DVR+ is in stdby. It's insane to have a drive spinning 24/7 when it might only be used 2 or 3 hours. Be right back.
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post #7416 of 7435 Old Today, 10:34 AM
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As I suspected, the DVR+ is not happy if the drive is shut off, even if in standby. Had to go thru the whole "confirm" business.

Oh well. Will research how to get WD green drives to spin down on their own. Not a high priority at this point, more of an annoyance. Which I have probably become with all this yammering.
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post #7417 of 7435 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
A direct measurement is the most accurate.
I've being doing that in EE lab for years; there are many aspects, just a few (what is hard to execute in home) - expensive equipment, what must be calibrated regularly by specialized companies, enough DUT for statistically correct values, etc
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post #7418 of 7435 Old Today, 11:20 AM
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I've being doing that in EE lab for years; there are many aspects, just a few (what is hard to execute in home) - expensive equipment, what must be calibrated regularly by specialized companies, enough DUT for statistically correct values, etc
Hardly. Very easy to do. Measure the current, do the math, voila, done. I don't need precision down to the 1/1000th of a watt. They also make watt meters, but I don't own one.

No need to make it more complicated than it is. I trust my measurements more than I trust a company's pdf, edited by who knows. In addition, I'm testing their drive in MY enclosure.

Thanks anyway.
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post #7419 of 7435 Old Today, 11:26 AM
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I could proof my numbers what was taken into those PDFs . With test plans, test procedures, serial numbers of DMM, power supplies, eLoads, etc and dates/companies who/when did calibrations.
If you doing the measures for living ...

Good luck !
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post #7420 of 7435 Old Today, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
It's insane to have a drive spinning 24/7 when it might only be used 2 or 3 hours.
Not at all. Anyway, my point is simply that there are probably design considerations that no one here knows anything about and those designs call for the drive to spin continuously in a ready state. Making the drive spin down when in standby simply because someone feels that is the way it should be, takes the burden off CM when something goes wrong.

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post #7421 of 7435 Old Today, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Not at all. Anyway, my point is simply that there are probably design considerations that no one here knows anything about and those designs call for the drive to spin continuously in a ready state. Making the drive spin down when in standby simply because someone feels that is the way it should be, takes the burden off CM when something goes wrong.
Could be. I'd like to hear what design considerations would call for not being able to wait the 10 seconds for a drive to start up. But why has every other DVR I have ever owned shut off the drive when shutting down? They seemed to handle it just fine. Is there some black magic voodoo stuff going on inside these thin, sleek beauties?
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post #7422 of 7435 Old Today, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
...The DVR+ does not do that -- the designers obviously want the drive to spin constantly when the unit is in standby. Their recommended drives are ones that do not spin down on their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
I would tend to agree with this. But I don't know for sure. I don't remember anyone saying their external drive shut off completely when DVR+ is in stdby. Some have said their drives spin down.

My thinking is perhaps drive spinup/startup when waking from standby would take too long to suit CM/DVR+. You have to admit, it does start up and display video quickly. Not so much after being unplugged.

I will perform a test,
-Put DVR+ in stdby
-turn off power to ext drive
-simultaneously turn on DVR+ and drive

I suspect it will kick and scream about no drive connected, or "confirm this drive" or some such issue. If no problems, I will build a circuit to shut down my drive when DVR+ is in stdby. It's insane to have a drive spinning 24/7 when it might only be used 2 or 3 hours. Be right back.
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Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
As I suspected, the DVR+ is not happy if the drive is shut off, even if in standby. Had to go thru the whole "confirm" business.

Oh well. Will research how to get WD green drives to spin down on their own. Not a high priority at this point, more of an annoyance. Which I have probably become with all this yammering.
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Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
Could be. I'd like to hear what design considerations would call for not being able to wait the 10 seconds for a drive to start up. But why has every other DVR I have ever owned shut off the drive when shutting down? They seemed to handle it just fine. Is there some black magic voodoo stuff going on inside these thin, sleek beauties?
I am using a Seagate portable drive that I have configured to spin down after 15 minutes of inactivity. I have confirmed that it does do this after the DVR+ goes to standby. The DVR+ has no issue with coming out of standby to record a program and the drive spinning up. Everything works as expected.

Powering down the drive is not the same thing as the drive spinning down due to inactivity. How the DVR+ behaves with a powered down drive being powered back up is irrelevant to the spin down mode.

I don't put too much stock in the idea that Seagate is recommended due to Seagate drives not spinning down as a default factory setting. That is mere speculation, and my DVR+ works just fine with a drive that does spin down.
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post #7423 of 7435 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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Without hopefully incurring the wrath of those in this thread, but am I correct in assuming that after doing an auto scan of all channels that you can still manually navigate to a "known" channel that weren't picked up with the auto scan? The reason i ask is that with my current setup, I can only get ABC or FOX (not both at the same time) and at least adding the channel would allow me to then go to my antenna and adjust it till the channel comes in.

The instruction manual seems to imply this ability.
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Facts (with a little opinion) about hard drives:

  1. All hard drives fail. Eventually. Count on it.
  2. There are only 3 manufacturers of PC-type hard drives in the world: Western Digital, Seagate, and Toshiba.
  3. 2.5 inch drives are intended for laptop computer or portable use and are therefore designed assuming intermittent operation, not 24/7.
  4. Top of the line 3.5 inch drives (e.g. "enterprise" class) are designed for 24/7 operation.
  5. The rest of the 3.5 inch drive category has various design goals. Using WD as an example, Red=server/NAS operation; Blue=consumer desktop PC operation; Black=high performance applications; Green=optimized for low power consumption; Purple=Security DVR streaming video storage.

One can assume from #3 that leaving a 2.5 inch drive on and spinning 24/7 will result in earlier failure, on average, than an enterprise or server class 3.5 inch drive. But, as with all assumptions, YMMV, and it will not necessarily hold true for any specific case.

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post #7425 of 7435 Old Today, 12:39 PM
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Without hopefully incurring the wrath of those in this thread, but am I correct in assuming that after doing an auto scan of all channels that you can still manually navigate to a "known" channel that weren't picked up with the auto scan?
Nope. TTBOMK: No digital tuner device can do that. The "channels" you see on-screen have no relationship to where the channels are frequency-wise. Those are lables picked up from the broadcast signal data stream.

E.g.: "Channel 4," in my area, used to be the... uhm... third VHF channel, at 66Mhz in the VHF low band allocation. Anywhere you went in the U.S.: Channel 4 was at 66MHz. With digital, we still have a "Channel 4," in our area, but it's now located somewhere in the UHF allocation and the "Channel 4" in another city will be at a different frequency.

Your digital tuner actually scans all available frequencies and collects the "channel lable" information from whatever it finds. There's no way for it to know what "channel number" in your area associates with what frequency.

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post #7426 of 7435 Old Today, 12:43 PM
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ok. That kind of sucks but guess it is what it is. Gonna make swapping channel more complicated.
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another experience

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Originally Posted by chazdole View Post
So, tested the Rosewill RX-358 3.5" external enclosure on a PC;
When plugged into the computer via eSata, the drive (WD10EZRX) shuts off when the computer shuts off, even though the enclosure is switched on and powered by its wall wart.

But, when plugged in to the computer's USB, it does not shut off. So perhaps it is not entirely a DVR+ issue that the drive will not power or even spin down when DVR+ is in standby.

My smaller 2.5" USB powered drive (Hitachi 320GB) also doesn't shut down when DVR+ is in stdby. I will note that this same drive DID power down when used with the Homeworx unit. Another poster mentioned both of his Toshiba Canvio drives spin down in DVR+ stdby.

This post is not necessarily looking for a solution, but just to add another experience to the knowledge base.


I'm using a WD10EURX HDD in a Rosewill RX35-AT-SC 3.5" HDD external enclosure. The enclosure has both USB 2.0 & eSATA ports purchased for the DVR+ last August(but can be used with DTVPalDVR). The drive (out of the box)spins down a few minutes after the DVR+ is set to standby.

I also use a Harmony720 remote for HT components: Denon 3608 and Vizio XVT473SV (along with the Pal and DVR+) with no problems (1 warm boot to restore recording LED indicator) with the DVR+. Vizio and DVR+ get along fine (through Denon).
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post #7428 of 7435 Old Today, 01:09 PM
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I have one channel that gave me difficulties with a scan. I went to t v f o o l (with a com extension) and obtained the necessary info. Channel 4 is what I wanted and it was actually 40. I adjusted the antenna and did a manual scan for channel 40. It found 40 and now shows as channel 4. My point is the DVR must actually see the channel before it adds it to the table. Once it's in there, it stays until another scan.

Not enough posts to include a link to t v f o o l.
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post #7429 of 7435 Old Today, 01:18 PM
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I'm using a WD10EURX HDD in a Rosewill RX35-AT-SC 3.5" HDD external enclosure. The enclosure has both USB 2.0 & eSATA ports purchased for the DVR+ last August(but can be used with DTVPalDVR). The drive (out of the box)spins down a few minutes after the DVR+ is set to standby.

I also use a Harmony720 remote for HT components: Denon 3608 and Vizio XVT473SV (along with the Pal and DVR+) with no problems (1 warm boot to restore recording LED indicator) with the DVR+. Vizio and DVR+ get along fine (through Denon).
I have another WD10ezrx I can try in the enclosure, as well as a few laptop drives and other enclosures.
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post #7430 of 7435 Old Today, 01:19 PM
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ok. That kind of sucks but guess it is what it is. Gonna make swapping channel more complicated.
It's not so bad when you get used to it. Example: WPGH broadcasts on channel 43 but you will see it on channel 53. WTAE broadcasts on channel 51 but you will see it on channel 4. Entering the broadcast channel is normal when doing a manual entry. Depending on the brain of the tuner, this may or may not be possible. If you are allowed to enter a manual channel number then it should work.
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post #7431 of 7435 Old Today, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeOlMan View Post
I have one channel that gave me difficulties with a scan. I went to t v f o o l (with a com extension) and obtained the necessary info. Channel 4 is what I wanted and it was actually 40. I adjusted the antenna and did a manual scan for channel 40. It found 40 and now shows as channel 4. My point is the DVR must actually see the channel before it adds it to the table. Once it's in there, it stays until another scan.

Not enough posts to include a link to t v f o o l.
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It's not so bad when you get used to it. Example: WPGH broadcasts on channel 43 but you will see it on channel 53. WTAE broadcasts on channel 51 but you will see it on channel 4. Entering the broadcast channel is normal when doing a manual entry. Depending on the brain of the tuner, this may or may not be possible. If you are allowed to enter a manual channel number then it should work.


I mean I know the stations: 33.1, 33.2, 33.3 are one set and the others are 53.1, 53.2, 53.3. I can only get one of those sets at a time.
So if I have my 53.1-3 picked up and want to go to 33.1, I'm hoping it will "stay" on that station even if it doesnt' pick anything up. My current TV will not let me stay on that channel unless it was picked up by auto scan.

Last edited by metalsaber; Today at 01:24 PM.
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post #7432 of 7435 Old Today, 01:35 PM
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I mean I know the stations: 33.1, 33.2, 33.3 are one set and the others are 53.1, 53.2, 53.3. I can only get one of those sets at a time.
So if I have my 53.1-3 picked up and want to go to 33.1, I'm hoping it will "stay" on that station even if it doesnt' pick anything up. My current TV will not let me stay on that channel unless it was picked up by auto scan.
I understand. Some devices will go to the closest match when a channel is selected (usually the digital only tuners) and some TV sets will not move since they want the exact channel. That should go away in the future but for now we're stuck with what we have. I did a scan on one DVR that (on cable) picked up and stored all channels, even the scrambled ones. My TV would map those channels but hide them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post
Without hopefully incurring the wrath of those in this thread, but am I correct in assuming that after doing an auto scan of all channels that you can still manually navigate to a "known" channel that weren't picked up with the auto scan? The reason i ask is that with my current setup, I can only get ABC or FOX (not both at the same time) and at least adding the channel would allow me to then go to my antenna and adjust it till the channel comes in.

The instruction manual seems to imply this ability.
You can do that with a "manual scan," but you'll have to know the true RF channel of the missing station. As previously noted, it's not necessarily the same as the channel number you're used to seeing.

A good place to start is http://tvfool.com. Enter your address (or at least your Zip code) and you'll see a report of all stations receivable from your (or your post office's) location, including their true RF channel numbers. Find the missing stations in the list, write down their RF channel numbers, then rotate your antenna, go to the "manual scan" option under "tuning" on your DVR+ and enter the first RF channel number. If your antenna is pointed correctly, you should see the signal quality meter move up from zero. (If not reposition your antenna until it does.) Then select "started" to start the scan and it should add the channel. Repeat for any other missing channels.

Edit: Looks like DeOldMan beat me to it.
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post #7434 of 7435 Unread Today, 03:28 PM
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The questions came from a hidden facts:
internal DB (rei file, read posts above from pachinko) has two two names per each record - current (what you see) and original; current name could be changed, but sorting done by original name; you see not "folders" but grouping by original names, it's virtual folders; they don't exist on HDD but built in RAM.
OK I get it, they are just groupings of names which was my understanding. So if there are 2 separate names for each recording, then why would they be ungrouped if they are still sorted by the original name. Simply by me changing the second name it would leave the grouping alone and just display the shows with my new names in the same virtual folders.

Thanks,
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post #7435 of 7435 Unread Today, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
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with my current setup, I can only get ABC or FOX (not both at the same time) and at least adding the channel would allow me to then go to my antenna and adjust it till the channel comes in.
You could add a second antenna, and then combine their signals by connecting the coaxial cables with a simple and inexpensive "splitter" (a misnomer in this case).

I have two antennas now, oriented to different directions, SE and SW. I'll probably add a third oriented to NW to receive ME TV and "movies!"
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