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post #961 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 09:03 AM
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DD24, Thank you for saving me the read of the whole 32 pages (>900 posts) of this thread with your post #932, because I've just spent hours doing the following:

1) Reading the online user manuals of 1st the Philips HDR5710/5750, and 2nd of the CM-7500 to see if external HDD files created by them could be transportable to/from a PC;
2) Not finding a definite answer in any of the above manuals (not surprisingly I guess) I then browsed through the WHOLE thread on this forum regarding the former DVR (Philips); on post #420 (of 423 total posts on that other thread, the moment I write this), Technopundit, who's got a very valid excuse to dodge efforting the matter (his health), was the 1st to finally shed some light on one of if not the main question on that thread...

Furthermore DD24, your reference to the usefulness of VideoRedo in your post #932 of the present thread was also key and I thank you for it

Now, here's my purpose, maybe that will be helpful to some and initiate more useful posts:

I've been recording OTA for years on a PC using a ChannelMaster 7228 antenna on top of my house in Montreal (local channels easily tuned in), pointed toward Mount Mansfield VT where all US broadcasters (PBS ABC CBS NBC FOX) agreed to colocate their DTV transmitters), MyHD software bundled with a MDP-130 PCI card with its DVI output daughter card, so that with this and a SPDIF output off the PC (optical or RCA) I could feed an HDTV (actually my video setup is a Harman Kardon AVR2650 receiver feeding an Optoma HD33 projector yielding an almost 13-foot diagonal display in a perfectly dark basement home theater with awesome sound from 7 Bose speakers). I've accumulated terabytes (on several external HDDs) of wonderful programs like PBS's Nova and Nature in full uncompressed HD, as well as older TV series in SD off of a local subchannel running MeTV. I've been using VideoRedo to remove advertisings so that my .ts files would contain only the program material. MyHD is perfect to schedule recordings (interfaces beautifully with TitanTV), with very few errors ever happening in VideoRedo processing of the the MDP-130 PCI card's steam recordings. Based on that I should have no reason to change my setup.

Unfortunately, at some point I lost the ability to use the DVI output from the MDP-130's daughterboard to feed my projector. I don't know if the card failed or if I shouldn't have upgraded my projector to the Optoma HD33 (it's 3D capable) from the Sony Pearl I had before (maybe the HD33 doesn't recognize the daughterboard's signals), but anyway... Drivers are from a package someone efforted by some guy/team because the initial drivers had shortcomings, and is understandably no longer maintained (and I don't have that knowhow). I always felt that dependence on the MDP-130 daughterboard for ouputting HD could easily be overcome, but I'm finding out that's a bigger issue than I expected, because even throwing a Radeon HD6450 graphics card in the PCIe slot of my PC isn't solving the problem; its HDMI out does feed the projector, but any .ts file opened with the MyHD will be limited to VGA quality on the projector (as on the inset window for the PC's monitor), and so far (little effort invested though) I haven't been able to get the Radeon to use a VLC window (since VLC can play my .ts files) to output it to the HDMI toward the projector - any proposed help there will be appreciated.

Let me return to the primary topic: readability/transportability of .ts files from an external HDD, written by the Philips OR Channel Master DVRs; so far it seems to be most doable with the latter. If that gets confirmed with a clear recipe, I'd then wonder if it's worth trying to port other recordings (from other sources) to the external HDD for the PVR+ to play back; that might be a lot trickier given info about the PVR+'s recordings is stored on another partition created on the HDD when it's formatted for use with the PVR+, as confirmed by DD24... Why these outfits don't simply allow usage of a specific folder on a standard HDD format to record .ts files is obscure to me, that would provide full transportability... I looked into using a media server; Plex works beautifully and even allows porting of recordings to other HDTVs in the house, but it only does so well for SD resolution recordings, the bandwidth isn't enough for full HD recordings (1080i); maybe solving that part would give the most useful solution (having my AV receiver fetch files from Plex and feed the projector real time HD).

Ideas/ suggestions are welcome. Where I can experiment I'll be glad to if I have the time and I will share results.

Best regards to guys like Technopundit and DD24.
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post #962 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 09:21 AM
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Ordered my DVR+ and should have it next week. I am curious if anyone who has one can revisit the digital audio out question. The picture of the back looks to me like it is that weird MiniPort or whatever it is called that they have on Apple computers. Basically a standard headphone jack that can take a longer plug with an optical connection on it. The cables and adapters (to convert to TosLink) are not that easy to find. Apple doesn't even sell them on it's site even though all their computers come with those jacks.

 

Anyway, am I right? I read the CM manual online and there was no spec to let you know what cable to buy.

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post #963 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post


I get the impression people would like to get the files off the disk and play them on other equipment without necessarily editing them. They probably won't have access to VRD (especially given the $100 price tag). Could you run the experiment of running one of the .ts files through TSMuxer (free) to see if that fixes things like a VRD Quick Stream Fix.


OK, since you are such a nice person I will do it for you (and anyone else who is interested).  Installed tsMuxeR version 2.6.11 (is this the right program?).  Using the GUI I tried to add the original file from the DVR+ to the input file box and it gives me an error message: "Unsupported format, Can't detect stream type".  When I add the "fixed" file from VRD it has no problems loading it.

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post #964 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

I do realize that you could build a WMC computer with 6 tuners and use Xbox 360's for extenders, but how much would that cost you, and how much geeking would you have to do to get the thing built?

 

Geeking? WMC takes about 20 minutes to configure. After that no more work than TiVo or any other DVR. Cost? Certainly depends however in my case I have $210 invested for three locations (details posted in another thread).

 

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You folks do realize that modern televisions do have their own tuners (and if you have an old TV you can get a iView for $40).

 

I haven't watched live TV for over a decade... nor am I going to start. :) 

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post #965 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 09:37 AM
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Kelson, you could try blindly any program on the pseudo-TS files from K77 drive,
but if you'll aim your knowledge from post#937 and ask the program's maker you'll know definitely the answer
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post #966 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 09:39 AM
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@AEROCORP
Have you considered getting a real media streamer rather than trying to make your DVR into something it was not designed to be? You can buy a WDTV Live-SMP for $80. It is a networked HiDef video streamer that plays just about any file format you can throw at it. I collect HDTV recordings of a lot of shows, edit them with VRD to remove commercials and store them on a media-PC that is networked throughout the house. I have WD Lives at various TV's and can stream anything I want from the servers. If you don't have a good wired network for stable bandwidth (wireless sucks for streaming) the WD Live has USB ports for external drives (NTFS formated) so you can stream local content. You an buy a 1Tb external USB-3 bus-powered HDD for $60, load tons of TV content on the drive and plug it into the WDTV Live for local streaming. USB-3 is really fast for content transfer from a PC -- I get 150 MBps transfer rates to my USB-3 HDD.
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post #967 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD24 View Post

Installed tsMuxeR version 2.6.11 (is this the right program?).  Using the GUI I tried to add the original file from the DVR+ to the input file box and it gives me an error message: "Unsupported format, Can't detect stream type".  When I add the "fixed" file from VRD it has no problems loading it.
Oh-oh, major bummer. Yes that is the right version of TSMuxer. What the heck did they do to the format of the .ts container that it takes VRD to fix. On top of that, the number and type of errors you reported from the QSFx were minor at best. What did they do? confused.gif

This is certainly a cold splash of water on the CM-7500 parade and is obviously not going to fly well unless a free conversion app can be identified that will fix the streams and mux a standards compliant container. The only other good remuxer I know off-hand and use is eac3to, but if TSMuxer didn't work I doubt eac3to will either. Without a free app to fix it, the recordings might as well be considered encrypted. We'll see what the future holds. If the CM-7500 catches on, someone will write an app if one can't be found. That is what happened with TiVo. Someone wrote kmttg to do network transfers of TiVo files and is still supporting it with updates.

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post #968 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Geeking? WMC takes about 20 minutes to configure. After that no more work than TiVo or any other DVR. Cost? Certainly depends however in my case I have $210 invested for three locations (details posted in another thread).

Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean that it is easy for everyone else. I spent 15 minutes yesterday helping a co-worker attach multiple files to an e-mail. Some people can't figure out how to assembly a basic shipping box without detailed instructions. One of the main reasons people subscribe to cable is the tech shows up and sets it up for them. So, to have a really successful OTA product, it needs to be something that does most of the work for the customer.
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It's 2014 and you're still paying for television?
 

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post #969 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

Kelson, you could try blindly any program on the pseudo-TS files from K77 drive,
but if you'll aim your knowledge from post#937 and ask the program's maker you'll know definitely the answer
So you think that the .ts files lack "PAT/PMT with PIDs assignment info" and that is the problem.

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post #970 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

So, to have a really successful OTA product, it needs to be something that does most of the work for the customer.

 

Which is exactly what it does... The first time you run WMC a getting started Wizard takes you through the entire process... if you want to call ten minutes or so a process. Perhaps fifteen or twenty if you want to get fancy the rename your channels and perform other advanced features. Oh I don't disagree in some there is a mindset of a computer must be complex... but that's on those not knowing any better. The Wizard isn't any harder to walk-through than TiVo's. There isn't a DVR today that isn't in essence a PC. Just because WMC doesn't require a dedicated PC doesn't mean it doesn't act and perform like other DVRs to a large extent... even better in some and worse in other ways.

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post #971 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post


Oh-oh, major bummer. Yes that is the right version of TSMuxer. What the heck did they do to the format of the .ts container that it takes VRD to fix. On top of that, the number and type of errors you reported from the QSFx were minor at best. What did they do? confused.gif

This is certainly a cold splash of water on the CM-7500 parade and is obviously not going to fly well unless a free conversion app can be identified that will fix the streams and mux a standards compliant container. The only other good remuxer I know off-hand and use is eac3to, but if TSMuxer didn't work I doubt eac3to will either. Without a free app to fix it, the recordings might as well be considered encrypted. We'll see what the future holds. If the CM-7500 catches on, someone will write an app if one can't be found. That is what happened with TiVo. Someone wrote kmttg to do network transfers of TiVo files and is still supporting it with updates.


Now that you have me started on this ... I installed SMPlayer version 0.8.6 and opened the original DVR+ video file and immediately it just started playing, not even a little pause to try to figure out what the format was.  Although SMPlayer played the whole video file, it thought the playing length was less than 21 minutes when it was actually over 30 minutes long and the time slider at the bottom didn't function properly after about 20 minutes.  But this was also true when I played the video file which had been fixed by VRD.  I clicked on the file info in SMPlayer and this is what it showed (for the original DVR+ file):

 

General
File
C:/Users/Public/Videos/Strm000F.ts
Size
3645132 KB (3559 MB)
Length
00:20:44
Demuxer
mpegts

Video
Resolution
1920 x 1080
Aspect ratio
1.7778
Format
0x10000002
Bitrate
24000 kbps
Frames per second
29.970
Selected codec
ffmpeg2

Initial Audio Stream
Format
8192
Bitrate
384 kbps
Rate
48000 Hz
Channels
2
Selected codec
ffac3

Audio Streams
#
Language
Name
ID
0
<empty>
<empty>
52

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post #972 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post


Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean that it is easy for everyone else. I spent 15 minutes yesterday helping a co-worker attach multiple files to an e-mail. Some people can't figure out how to assembly a basic shipping box without detailed instructions. One of the main reasons people subscribe to cable is the tech shows up and sets it up for them. So, to have a really successful OTA product, it needs to be something that does most of the work for the customer.

 

You're absolutely right, dk.

Only video geeks who really like this stuff have the time and inclination to play on here - and there's nothing wrong with that!

But let's never confuse current company with people in the "real world" who are just looking for a convenient way to watch a little TV and then want to get on with other priorities in their lives.

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post #973 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD24 View Post

Selected codec

ffmpeg2
Ah-ha. From your listing it used ffmpeg to decode. That is another one of these highly rated conversion utilities that is used by a lot of software. I have it on my PC but never use it directly because it is always being called by something else. I believe VRD may use ffmpeg. Apparently ffmpeg works on these files since SMPlayer could play it. I don't know how involved you want to get on this, but if you are willing to play, you can download ffmpeg here. It is command line driven but because it is one of the gold-standard utilities there are a bunch of GUI front ends written for it so you don't have to mess with the command line if you don't want to.

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post #974 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:05 PM
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Ah-ha. From your listing it used ffmpeg to decode. That is another one of these highly rated conversion utilities that is used by a lot of software. I have it on my PC but never use it directly because it is always being called by something else. I believe VRD may use ffmpeg. Apparently ffmpeg works on these files since SMPlayer could play it. I don't know how involved you want to get on this, but if you are willing to play, you can download ffmpeg here. It is command line driven but because it is one of the gold-standard utilities there are a bunch of GUI front ends written for it so you don't have to mess with the command line if you don't want to.


Having some Linux experience (and actually DOS prior to that) I can't say that I'm unfamiliar with the command line but I think I will leave that to someone who has more experience with video files than I do.  Anyway, I did open the original DVR+ video file again in VideoReDo and did notice that it took a few seconds to load.  Here is what the VRD log file showed:

 

2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS -> No PAT table found.
2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS ->    Found PID: x31
2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS ->    Found PID: x34
2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS -> Unable to find a PAT table in 63827 packets
2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS -> Creating internal program map from raw data.
2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS -> Raw Video PID: x31, MPEG2 Video
2014-01-09 14:42:17 TS -> Raw Audio PID: x34  (bd)
2014-01-09 14:42:17  
           ***** Loading: C:\Users\Public\Videos\Strm000F.ts

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post #975 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:15 PM
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So, looks like P Smith is right.

I guess we'll just have to wait until someone else is motivated to try some of the other TS remuxers that are in VideoHelp.com

- kelson h

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post #976 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

But you can't use your TV's or iView's tuner to stream recorded content, unless CM builds in a QAM modulator, which would triple the price of the DVR+.

Which is why you need the DVR+ extender.
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Bingochea said that whole-home DVR functionality was one of the most-requested features, which is why the company is now developing an adapter that can be connected to other TVs in the house to stream recordings from a DVR+ over the local network.

If you read a bunch of past comments you would think people think they need to watch live TV through the DVR+ on three or four TVs at once. That is what your TV tuner is for. If you have an iView you can even time shift.

It's 2014 and you're still paying for television?
 

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post #977 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:26 PM
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@DD24
BTW, you may already be planning on doing this but I would make it a habit of running a QSFx on all the files before you open them up in VRD -- use the batch facility. I do this on all my TiVo recording transfers as a matter of course. I have found a few files that would open up in VRD and edit normally to cut out commercials but when I go to save them to .m2ts files they either crash VRD or "complete" the save before reaching the end of the file. Never have a problem with any file that has been run through QSFx.

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post #978 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

So, looks like P Smith is right.

I guess we'll just have to wait until someone else is motivated to try some of the other TS remuxers that are in VideoHelp.com
he knows the files inside out, in all details smile.gif
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post #979 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEROCORP View Post

I'd then wonder if it's worth trying to port other recordings (from other sources) to the external HDD for the PVR+ to play back; that might be a lot trickier given info about the PVR+'s recordings is stored on another partition created on the HDD when it's formatted for use with the PVR+, as confirmed by DD24... Why these outfits don't simply allow usage of a specific folder on a standard HDD format to record .ts files is obscure to me, that would provide full transportability... I looked into using a media server....
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@AEROCORP
Have you considered getting a real media streamer rather than trying to make your DVR into something it was not designed to be?
Media streamers might actually be a better solution that the DVR+ for AEROCORP's situation, but he still has a valid point about it. There's no reason it shouldn't be able to play external .ts files placed on its HDD. Has anyone tried this yet? Does it work, or does the DVR+'s design, with its 1GB partition and its indecipherable files, make this a hopeless task?

I also agree that it would have made a lot more sense to just record standard MPEG-ts files, like DVRs costing all of $40 can manage to do rolleyes.gif Still, I wonder if fixing the DVR+'s .ts files could be as simple as this command:

ffmpeg -i dvr+file.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy goodfile.ts
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post #980 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


I also agree that it would have made a lot more sense to just record standard MPEG-ts files, like DVRs costing all of $40 can manage to do rolleyes.gif Still, I wonder if fixing the DVR+'s .ts files could be as simple as this command:

ffmpeg -i dvr+file.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy goodfile.ts
Just got to get some kind soul with a CM-7500 who is already familiar with connecting it to a PC and transferring files to try it. smile.gif

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post #981 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


Media streamers might actually be a better solution that the DVR+ for AEROCORP's situation, but he still has a valid point about it. There's no reason it shouldn't be able to play external .ts files placed on its HDD. Has anyone tried this yet? Does it work, or does the DVR+'s design, with its 1GB partition and its indecipherable files, make this a hopeless task?

I also agree that it would have made a lot more sense to just record standard MPEG-ts files, like DVRs costing all of $40 can manage to do rolleyes.gif Still, I wonder if fixing the DVR+'s .ts files could be as simple as this command:

ffmpeg -i dvr+file.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy goodfile.ts
FW v 101R has Netflix file, so it's coming ...

Copy [combine] bin file with new PAT+PMT and whole .TS file is possible, just need to scan the TS file and parse all unique PIDs to pull meta-info about all video/audio/data PES. Not that hard I could tell you from first hand experience.
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post #982 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 02:01 PM
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I'm a brand new DVR+ owner (received, set it up, and recorded my first programs yesterday).  I've been following this forum since its inception and I've gotten some great tips from all of you.  Thanks!  Bought and used a DTVPal for years and really miss it.  Have been using a Digital Stream DVR for the past year and I'm glad to retire it!!!

 

Just wanted to report that I'm successfully using a TP-Link 300Mbps high gain wireless USB adapter (model #TL-WN822N) with the DVR+, as well as a (don't laugh) Maxtor One Touch II 100GB hard drive.  Will replace the Maxtor with a larger HDD soon!

 

So far I love the DVR+.  I live in central NC and am picking up all major networks and a whole lot of minor ones, too.

 

-Chuck

 

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post #983 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

But you can't use your TV's or iView's tuner to stream recorded content, unless CM builds in a QAM modulator, which would triple the price of the DVR+.

Which is why you need the DVR+ extender.
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Bingochea said that whole-home DVR functionality was one of the most-requested features, which is why the company is now developing an adapter that can be connected to other TVs in the house to stream recordings from a DVR+ over the local network.

If you read a bunch of past comments you would think people think they need to watch live TV through the DVR+ on three or four TVs at once. That is what your TV tuner is for. If you have an iView you can even time shift.

My only point was that folks do want to stream recorded content (otherwise whole-home DVRs wouldn't exist), and it's a lot cheaper to offer an extender to do that job than to build in a $500 QAM modulator so your TV's tuner can do it, which is how the original comment sounded to me.

I never got the impression that anyone wanted an extender to stream live content. You're right - any TV can do that already, and I'd hope everyone knows that! But I haven't closely read every post in this thread; it just grows too fast!

Edit: OK, I think I figured this out. Folks weren't wanting to stream live OTA TV to their TVs (which of course makes no sense - that's what TVs "do"); they were wanting to stream live TV to their PCs, notebooks, tablets, smart phones, etc. I'd say that's above and beyond the call of a DVR's duty, but if CM someday releases a DVR+ app for that, then more power to the '+,' I guess.

BTW, I still think that once you're talking about recording TV for everyone in a home instead of just a single TV set, 2 tuners won't be enough, so folks are going to want more than one DVR+ in their home. At that point, it makes more sense to let two DVR+'s stream to each other than to require an extender for each. But the extenders still make sense when you get beyond 2 rooms (e.g., 3 rooms could be 2 DVR+'s & 1 extender; 5 rooms could be 3 DVR+'s and 2 extenders, assuming each DVR+ and extender can access recordings on all the other DVR+'s easily).
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post #984 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Still, I wonder if fixing the DVR+'s .ts files could be as simple as this command:

ffmpeg -i dvr+file.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy goodfile.ts

If that's all you think it would take I could give it a try.

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post #985 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 02:46 PM
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If that's all you think it would take I could give it a try.
If you could explain all details/parameters/actions of the cmd ...
ffmpeg -i dvr+file.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy goodfile.ts
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post #986 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 02:47 PM
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If you could explain all details/parameters/actions of the cmd ...
ffmpeg -i dvr+file.ts -vcodec copy -acodec copy goodfile.ts


That's what I have to rely on someone else for.

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post #987 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 03:00 PM
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Well, -i says the next parameter is an input file; -vcodec copy and -acodec copy say I want to copy the video and audio streams instead of re-encoding them. Ffmpeg should look at the .ts extension of the output file and conclude you want an mpeg-ts container.

By default ffmpeg will only copy one video, one audio, and one subtitle stream, so it'll strip out any secondary languages. Therefore, don't be surprised if the output file is a bit smaller than the input.

Full documentation is at http://www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-all.html but be warned - there are a zillion options!
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post #988 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 03:03 PM
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That's what I have to rely on someone else for.
I think what he means is if there is any output screen or log file, would you please post that information so he can unscramble it.

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post #989 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Full documentation is at http://www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-all.html but be warned - there are a zillion options!

 That's what I thought and why I was reluctant to try it.

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post #990 of 4521 Old 01-09-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

By default ffmpeg will only copy one video, one audio, and one subtitle stream, so it'll strip out any secondary languages. Therefore, don't be surprised if the output file is a bit smaller than the input.
In my experience, HDTV recordings have only 1 video and 1 audio stream and no subtitle stream.

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