Channel Master DVR+ Owners Thread - Page 340 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:02 AM
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I just checked the battery contacts with a continuity tester. There is continuity between the springs (negative contacts), implying the batteries are in parallel. If the batteries were in series there would be continuity between the positive contact of one cell and the negative contact of the other.

Surprisingly, there is no continuity between the positive contacts! But that probably just means there are diodes in series with the positive contacts. Without diodes, the way the battery compartment is designed, if someone tried to install one battery upside-down, it would short out the other one.

So, I'd say P Smith is right. The remote will operate with one battery, but it will only last half as long as with two. The remote will get the same voltage either way, so functionality should be unaffected.

Useful to know in a pinch. If you only have one good CR2032 on hand, you can still operate your DVR+.
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:07 AM
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@SirCrow , Would you enlighten us on how long your original battery set lasted?

Like in months or when your DVR+ was first used.

I watch the brightness of the light behind my on/off button and have not detected any dimming of it yet. My DVR+ delivered on July 17th, 2015.

CR2032's can be expensive at the drugstore, from Amazon; two five packs of Energizer's cost me $6 delivered or $0.60 each, Walgreen's charged me over $6 w/tax in 2011 for a single Energizer CR2032 (it's still testing 3V+) replacing previous, which had lasted for 12 years.

I would certainly replace both 2032 cells at the same time.
Art
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:15 AM
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Well, here's a minor but silly and annoying bug. If you tune to a station that's temporarily off the air, the Back button doesn't work! Channel Up/Down and the numbers work fine, but you can't just go back to the station you were on before (other than by typing in its number again).

@pilotart , I've learned that CR2032 batteries are virtually impossible to test with a voltmeter. They'll still read about 3V even when they're nearly dead. So I always check them with the "tongue test"
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Old 12-19-2015, 09:50 AM
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A tip for testing batteries: add a load (a resistor 20...100 Ohm) to voltmeter's leads.
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Old 12-19-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
A tip for testing batteries: add a load (a resistor 20...100 Ohm) to voltmeter's leads.
Add load to one lead, or both leads?
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Old 12-19-2015, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wm58 View Post
Add load to one lead, or both leads?
You're trying to put a load on the battery while measuring the voltage. Same is done by a commercial battery tester. I have a AAA battery holder from Radio Shack, a small incandescent lamp, and a base to screw the lamp into. I got a really bright lamp so it would draw the max current. So I put the batteries in and see how bright the bulb gets. More of a hobby I guess. If you have a resistor, put one lead on each of the meter's leads.

To repost: always use batteries in pairs. One bad battery can kill one good battery.
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Old 12-19-2015, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
...
To repost: always use batteries in pairs. One bad battery can kill one good battery.
Well, strictly speaking, usually bad batteries (connected in series) cannot kill its "neighbor", lets say the load (mA) will fall on good battery, eg drain it faster.

Yes, it's not a case for the flat remote of DVR+, it will make short for good battery and ruin it ...
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Well, strictly speaking, usually bad batteries (connected in series) cannot kill its "neighbor", lets say the load (mA) will fall on good battery, eg drain it faster.

Yes, it's not a case for the flat remote of DVR+, it will make short for good battery and ruin it ...
It was good that finding the batteries are in parallel. It does make it unusual.
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Old 12-19-2015, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post
To repost: always use batteries in pairs. One bad battery can kill one good battery.
True in the case of batteries in parallel without protective diodes. But the diodes will prevent that with the DVR+ remote. One battery cannot drain the other. Even a direct short can't. The net effect would be merely to drain the good battery more quickly, since it's the only one powering the remote.

BTW, in the somewhat common case of rechargeable batteries in series, it's actually the reverse: the good (charged) battery can kill (ruin) the bad (discharged) battery so that it cannot be recharged anymore. So if you use rechargeable batteries (in, say, the "enhanced" remote) make sure to charge them both at once.
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Old 12-19-2015, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotart View Post
Would you enlighten us on how long your original battery set lasted?
My in-laws are on their original batteries. There is no remote, so this one is used day after day. They got their DVR+ in December of 2013.
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Old 12-19-2015, 05:35 PM
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I have a new issue

A couple weeks ago, I thought my remote batteries were about to die. When I would turn the DVR+ on it was fine, but when I went to guide or anything else nothing happened so I changed the batteries. (A ballpoint pen works good removing the cover. Just push down while tilting the pen towards the top edge) It still showed a black screen after the new batteries. I thought maybe I hit the "input" button but didn't know for sure, so I hit it a few more times with no luck so I shut everything off (Standby DVR+, Off TV) and walked away. It worked later that day when I turned all back on?


This time when it happened I turned the DVR+ off, then back on...........Blue light went bright but a black screen and NO signal going to the TV. The TV went to the "waiting for connection" screen meaning it was not receiving any input from any device. I removed the batteries and reinstalled another new set. Same thing. So I did the reboot and then it worked as it should.


Anyone else experience this?
It was not a battery issue.
I doubt a HDD issue because I assume it would revert to the internal? and it was spinning while no signal was being sent to the TV.
The HDMI cable seems fine when I tried it on the other TV?


I hope you all have a very nice Christmas next week
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Old 12-19-2015, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
True in the case of batteries in parallel without protective diodes. But the diodes will prevent that with the DVR+ remote. One battery cannot drain the other. Even a direct short can't. The net effect would be merely to drain the good battery more quickly, since it's the only one powering the remote.

BTW, in the somewhat common case of rechargeable batteries in series, it's actually the reverse: the good (charged) battery can kill (ruin) the bad (discharged) battery so that it cannot be recharged anymore. So if you use rechargeable batteries (in, say, the "enhanced" remote) make sure to charge them both at once.
I'm very curios in physical explanation of the culprit. Any engineering studies there ?
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:17 AM
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Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerhead View Post
A couple weeks ago, I thought my remote batteries were about to die. When I would turn the DVR+ on it was fine, but when I went to guide or anything else nothing happened so I changed the batteries. (A ballpoint pen works good removing the cover. Just push down while tilting the pen towards the top edge) It still showed a black screen after the new batteries. I thought maybe I hit the "input" button but didn't know for sure, so I hit it a few more times with no luck so I shut everything off (Standby DVR+, Off TV) and walked away. It worked later that day when I turned all back on?

This time when it happened I turned the DVR+ off, then back on...........Blue light went bright but a black screen and NO signal going to the TV. The TV went to the "waiting for connection" screen meaning it was not receiving any input from any device. I removed the batteries and reinstalled another new set. Same thing. So I did the reboot and then it worked as it should.

Anyone else experience this?
It was not a battery issue.
I doubt a HDD issue because I assume it would revert to the internal? and it was spinning while no signal was being sent to the TV.
The HDMI cable seems fine when I tried it on the other TV?

I hope you all have a very nice Christmas next week
I have a similar issue that started in the past few days. While watching a recording the TV screen would go black and the remote not do a thing. I have the new enhanced remote too. I did 2 resets using the power button on the DVR+ and so far it has been problem free. Not sure if this is related but the hard drive was at 35% and I brought it down to about 7% watching and deleting shows when the issue happened. So thinking it may be related to this activity
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I'm very curios in physical explanation of the culprit. Any engineering studies there ?
Basic explanation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel...Over-discharge. Unfortunately no citation yet.
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Old 12-20-2015, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I have a similar issue that started in the past few days. While watching a recording the TV screen would go black and the remote not do a thing. I have the new enhanced remote too. I did 2 resets using the power button on the DVR+ and so far it has been problem free. Not sure if this is related but the hard drive was at 35% and I brought it down to about 7% watching and deleting shows when the issue happened. So thinking it may be related to this activity
This and Boogerhead's problem both sound like HDMI handshaking issues. Those seem particularly common with Vizio TVs. Either of you using a Vizio?

I've also noticed there can be "slowdowns" at times. If the DVR+ appears to freeze, always give it several seconds before deciding it's "frozen" and rebooting it. It may start to respond again on its own.
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Old 12-20-2015, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
This and Boogerhead's problem both sound like HDMI handshaking issues. Those seem particularly common with Vizio TVs. Either of you using a Vizio?

I've also noticed there can be "slowdowns" at times. If the DVR+ appears to freeze, always give it several seconds before deciding it's "frozen" and rebooting it. It may start to respond again on its own.
I have the same setup for past 10 months. DVR+ hooked to a Samsung TV.
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:53 PM
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?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I have a similar issue that started in the past few days. While watching a recording the TV screen would go black and the remote not do a thing. I have the new enhanced remote too. I did 2 resets using the power button on the DVR+ and so far it has been problem free. Not sure if this is related but the hard drive was at 35% and I brought it down to about 7% watching and deleting shows when the issue happened. So thinking it may be related to this activity

I don't think that would be an issue for me as I only have maybe 2 hours of recordings on there at any given time. 1tb hdd and I delete as I finish watching anything....including the stuff you see in the DVR "schedule".
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:56 PM
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No Vizio's for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
This and Boogerhead's problem both sound like HDMI handshaking issues. Those seem particularly common with Vizio TVs. Either of you using a Vizio?

I've also noticed there can be "slowdowns" at times. If the DVR+ appears to freeze, always give it several seconds before deciding it's "frozen" and rebooting it. It may start to respond again on its own.

This is on an LG. Been there for over 10 months? as well and this just started happening.

Last edited by boogerhead; 12-20-2015 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Standard brain freeze
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Old 12-20-2015, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Basic explanation here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel...Over-discharge. Unfortunately no citation yet.
As I'm reading there " the good cells start to drive the discharged cell in reverse. " the phrase is not clear to me - it must a load eg a device driving discharge. Remove the load, turn the switch off of a flashlight for example and the discharge will stop.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:54 AM
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Well, let's say you have an enhanced DVR+ remote with two rechargeable batteries. (Unlike the original remote, I believe the enhanced remote puts the two batteries in series.) Suppose one of the batteries is discharged but the other has a good charge. The power supplied to the remote would be way below spec (perhaps 1.4V instead of 3V) but that may still be enough for the remote to work, so suppose you keep using it anyway.

Each time you press a button on the remote, the positive terminal of the charged battery is connected to the negative terminal of the discharged one, and vice versa (one of the two connections being made through the remote's circuitry). This pumps current into the discharged battery, but in the wrong direction, so instead of tending to recharge it, it completely drains any remaining charge. Once the battery is completely dead, the reverse-polarity current would begin to strip material from its anode and it would soon be impossible to recharge.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:02 PM
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Battery Life

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Originally Posted by pilotart View Post
@SirCrow , Would you enlighten us on how long your original battery set lasted? ...
I would certainly replace both 2032 cells at the same time.
Art
@pilotart , I wish I knew. All I can say is this was the second time I've replaced the batteries since my DVR+ was delivered in Sept. 2014, and I think the second set lasted longer. A thread search has revealed that I mentioned replacing batteries in mid-March, 2015. So, that's a clue.

P.S.
Mind if I call you Pillow Tart?
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscojim View Post
I've had two of the DVR+ units with the original remotes in heavy daily use for over a year and they are both on their original batteries. The only thing I had to do was bend the battery contacts a little bit when they first seemed like the batteries were weak. I think it's more a case of poor contact rather than heavy battery drain with these.
I think a lot of you people are still replacing good batteries for no reason. My quote above shows that when the batteries in two of my units acted like they were weak, all I had to do was bend the contacts to fit snugly. I did that this past spring. I'm still on the original batteries and I do use both these units daily.

Check your battery contacts!

.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Well, let's say you have an enhanced DVR+ remote with two rechargeable batteries. (Unlike the original remote, I believe the enhanced remote puts the two batteries in series.) Suppose one of the batteries is discharged but the other has a good charge. The power supplied to the remote would be way below spec (perhaps 1.4V instead of 3V) but that may still be enough for the remote to work, so suppose you keep using it anyway.

Each time you press a button on the remote, the positive terminal of the charged battery is connected to the negative terminal of the discharged one, and vice versa (one of the two connections being made through the remote's circuitry). This pumps current into the discharged battery, but in the wrong direction, so instead of tending to recharge it, it completely drains any remaining charge. Once the battery is completely dead, the reverse-polarity current would begin to strip material from its anode and it would soon be impossible to recharge.


The load is create current flow in one direction. Regardless if the batteries charged-discharged or reversed polarity. A value of the load is depend of impedance of a device and a sum of internal resistance of both batteries.
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:23 AM
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Whatever. I understand what's going on, even though I apparently can't explain it to you.
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCrow View Post
@pilotart , I wish I knew. All I can say is this was the second time I've replaced the batteries since my DVR+ was delivered in Sept. 2014, and I think the second set lasted longer. A thread search has revealed that I mentioned replacing batteries in mid-March, 2015. So, that's a clue.

P.S.
Mind if I call you Pillow Tart?
call me art, or whatever you like

Thank you for sharing that information. Someone had previously said the original batteries did not last as long as the replacements.

Pioneer said: "The batteries included with the unit are to check initial operations; they may not last..." A year later and they're still going strong. It's the remotes stored on the shelf you have to watch, those 1.5 Volt cells definitely will leak and ruin the remote for you. The 'AAA's that came with my XM-SkyFi were toxic powder/paste inside their wrapper.

Also good to know about how 2032's hold their voltage up above 3 Volts until they are done. Alkaline's are easy to estimate life left from voltage test. In my experience the 2032's have a much longer 'shelf-life' than the Duracell (like over ten years and never saw a 2032 leak).

My single DVR+ Remote gets lots of use and I will report here when the 2032 batteries are spent. Approaching six months now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post


The load is create current flow in one direction. Regardless if the batteries charged-discharged or reversed polarity. A value of the load is depend of impedance of a device and a sum of internal resistance of both batteries.
All I ever knew was if there were a pair of batteries, you never replaced just one of the pair.

@JHBrandt Thank you for all the interesting information, makes sense to me.

I know if you have a fully charged 12 V lead/acid and connect it to a dead one with HD Jumper Cables, it will quickly boil the dead one trying to charge it and of course quickly deplete itself.
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:05 PM
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Just a quick update, I called Channel Master Support today, got a different tech who was much easier to work with. I made it clear I was done dealing with tier 1 support and demanded to be escalated. I heard back via email from a tier 2, he stated he looked over my case and the video links and thinks I have at least 1 bad tuner and told me to ship it in (at my cost of course). My wife already dropped it off at UPS so I will just see how long it takes to get it back and if I get a new or refurbish unit.

When I was talking to the tier 1 tech, I had mentioned this thread as he said he was aware of it, so maybe they do read this thread.


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So I heard back from Channel Master Support:

A good fix for this is to change your zip code to another in your surrounding area.Then, refresh the Rovi guide. The refresh will take up to 45 minutes and will perform in background. I hope this helps!Change zip-Menu>settings>time and date>change zip code
Refresh Rovi guide-Menu>settings>channel setup>antenna channels>refresh Rovi guide

Ben
Channel Master Support
sales@channelmaster.com
1-877-746-7261



I immediately called and spoke to Ben. He said I needed to perform their troubleshooting steps before they could open a ticket with their "backroom technician." I asked him what changing the Zip code had to do with my picture/sound issues, he really did not provide a answer. Very frustrated with Channel Master's support. I should have bought one of those Tivo's back when they were on sale.
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Old 12-22-2015, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
@pilotart , I've learned that CR2032 batteries are virtually impossible to test with a voltmeter. They'll still read about 3V even when they're nearly dead. So I always check them with the "tongue test"
The Bear Grylls chewing gum wrapper method to start a fire is a fun way to test a battery, though I've never seen it done with a CRxxxx type battery:


Basically, you are making a light bulb filament with the aluminum gum wrapper. After seeing that I will never be without a pack of chewing gum when venturing into the wilderness or trudging across the tundra, mile after mile.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greasemonkey View Post
The Bear Grylls chewing gum wrapper method to start a fire is a fun way to test a battery, though I've never seen it done with a CRxxxx type battery:

Basically, you are making a light bulb filament with the aluminum gum wrapper. After seeing that I will never be without a pack of chewing gum when venturing into the wilderness or trudging across the tundra, mile after mile.
It's going to far from the subject ... it would be better to open your own appropriate thread for the fire hazard game... I would post there my ideas to start fire
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Old 12-23-2015, 12:17 PM
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Is FW 134R a Fact?

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Originally Posted by pilotart View Post
call me art, or whatever you like

Thank you for sharing that information. Someone had previously said the original batteries did not last as long as the replacements.
Thanks, Art. I just had to make the Pillow Tart joke once, and now I'm satisfied.

Re. a possible forthcoming FW upgrade: I think I've seen exactly one reference to SW v. 134R on the forum; does this mean there's one coming? I'd like to know before I try "downgrading" back to 114R, if that's even possible at this point. Does anyone have real info on this? Thanks.

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Old 12-23-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
This and Boogerhead's problem both sound like HDMI handshaking issues. Those seem particularly common with Vizio TVs. Either of you using a Vizio?

I've also noticed there can be "slowdowns" at times. If the DVR+ appears to freeze, always give it several seconds before deciding it's "frozen" and rebooting it. It may start to respond again on its own.
Slowdowns, eh? That's almost a comfort to me; by the time I'm done pressing every remote button that I know should make the unit react in some way, it's been well over several seconds. So, I guess I'll just keep dealing with the Big Freeze the best I can. Thanks for the info.

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578 , 999 , Channel Master , dvr+ , maintanance restart , P552UI-B2 , vid posts 576/578 , vizio 4k
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