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post #1 of 4615 Old 07-11-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Channel Master DVR+ (Antenna Compatible DVR with Internet Connectivity and No Subscription Fees)

$249.99

http://www.channelmasterstore.com/DVR_p/cm-7500gb16.htm?Click=32508

Quick Start Guide: http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200068249/DVR_Plus_Quick_Start_Guide.pdf
User Guide: http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/200152160/DVR_Plus_Users_Guide.pdf
Software Update: http://support.channelmaster.com/hc/en-us/articles/200488325-DVR-Software-Update

CMDVRQuickStartGuide 1669k .pdf file
CMDVRUserGuide 4654k .pdf file








______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm transferring this information (with updates) from the other CM-7500 thread which I've requested be locked. Aero 1 can incorporate this into his post #1 as he wishes.

Channel Master CM-7500 (a.k.a. Channel Master DVR+)
I have come across some information about the upcoming Channel Master CM-7500. After repeated communications I am convinced of the source's credibility and of the validity of the information. I will update it as more comes in that I'm allowed to post.

Model name = CM-7500
Made by Echostar, sold by Channel Master
Targeted released date = 12/2/2013 (in reality, not until Q1 2014)
Keep an eye on the Channel Master Store Web site.

There are two models being proposed:

  • Lower end with 16GB internal storage and no HDD (CM-7500GB16, $250)
  • Flat form factor to easily mount on rear of flat panel DTV (IR extender available)
  • No fan, runs cool
  • Higher end model with internal HDD; size = TBD (CM-7500GB320)
  • Both models accept an external USB HDD to expand storage -- at least 3TB
  • The CM-7500GB16 will be released first


Common to both models:

  • 1 ethernet port
  • 2 USB ports (all on rear)
  • wireless adapter can be separately purchased and used in a USB port.
  • IR extender can be purchased to allow hiding the CM-7500
  • Two ATSC tuners for OTA-HDTV
  • No clear QAM tuners, no cable card -- that is definite
  • PSIP guide if not connected to Internet
  • 14 day guide service (Rovi) from Internet - no information, yet, on whether it is free or yearly subscription
  • Support for Internet streaming services
  • Only supported streaming service, so far = VuDu -- likely that more will be added before release


OS = Linux

  • The OS of the CM-7500 is Linux.
  • An external HDD is formatted with ExtFS upon connection to the DVR
  • Recordings are stored in standard transport stream format -- .ts files.
  • External HDD can be read by a Linux box or a PC with a Linux ExtFS file system driver
  • The files are displayed and can be accessed
  • Nothing currently inhibiting recordings being transferred off the external HDD
  • There is no indication the files are encrypted.


The Rovi guide has me scratching my head -- I didn't think their Internet guide for HDTV's went much beyond 3 days. This must be something different.

A bit more detail:



____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1/9/2014

Channel Master is developing a whole-home DVR solution for cord cutters

http://gigaom.com/2014/01/08/channel-master-dvr-plus-extender/
Quote:
Channel Master wants its new DVR+ to be the TiVo of people who don’t like to pay TiVo’s fees – and now, it’s developing whole-home DVR functionality as well.

Channel Master, known for its over-the-air TV antennas as well as some early digital video recorders that go along with these antennas, started shipping its new DVR+ this week — and the company is already looking to bring additional functionality to the device. Channel Master EVP Joe Bingochea told me at the CES in Las Vegas Wednesday that his company is looking to introduce a small companion device in the next few months that will turn the DVR+ into a whole-home digital video recorder.

Channel Master sells its new DVR+ for $250. For that price, consumers get a pretty neat box with a very clean design as well as a programming guide — something for that TiVo charges around $15 per month, depending on the individual plan.

However, the device also has its downsides. It only comes with 16 GB of onboard storage, which means that consumers have to connect an external hard drive to record more than a handful of TV show episodes. It also doesn’t support Wifi, and instead offers an Ethernet port and the option to buy an extra wireless adapter. And at least for now, the DVR+ only comes with one streaming app — Vudu — but Bingochea said that others will follow soon.

Channel Master has been positioning the device as a solution for consumer that don’t want to pay any monthly fees at all, and Bingochea also said that many of his company’s customers are more used to the traditional channel grid used by pay TV providers. That’s why the company also isn’t including ann app store. Instead, it lists Vudu right alongside other channels in the channel grid.

Bingochea said that whole-home DRV functionality was one of the most-requested features, which is why the company is now developing an adapter that can be connected to other TVs in the house to stream recordings from a DVR+ over the local network. The device won’t allow out-of-home streaming, but Channel Master cooperated with EchoStar on the development of the DVR+, and as a result, it is compatible with Sling’s Slingbox 500.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
7/11/13 - Original Post

New Channel Master K77 revealed from FCC Analog Tuner Waiver

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-07/echostar-channel-master-prep-new-ota-dvr/
Quote:
Boxee may have abandoned the market to secure their survival, but Echostar & Channel Master are teaming up once again to tap the over-the-air television market with a new line of retail DVR. According to a FCC filing (PDF), the two Channel Master K77 models “combine access to broadcast programming with over-the-top and DVR functionalities.” Both units are slated to include 16GB of Flash storage, presumably to house the OS and any potential OTT apps, with DVR storage handled via an integrated 320GB hard drive (in the higher end SKU) or added via USB storage by end users. Previously, the two companies collaborated on the DTVPal - which seemed to enjoy a decent amount of buzz and interest. More recently, Channel Master has been pushing an Entone-powered OTA DVR… but may not be pleased with the results given their rekindled relationship with Echostar. We firmly believe there’s an audience for this sort of product and are looking forward to what Echostar brings to the table. Related, Simple.TV, with a new line of funding, is likely also preparing an updated OTA/OTT DVR. Combined with TiVo’s incoming 4-tuner Series 5 and Aereo’s contested cloud-based approach, options are certainly heating up for cord cutters.

FCC Filing: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2013/db0710/DA-13-1555A1.pdf
Quote:
EchoStar seeks a waiver for two variants of the K77 device. Model CM-7500GB16 is
Flash memory-based with 16 gigabytes (“GB”) of memory, but no internal hard drive. DVR capability can be added
through the attachment of an external USB hard drive. Model CM-7500GB320 includes a 320 GB hard drive.

Hope these don't strictly rely on PSIP and include a better guide.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DVR_Plus_Users_Guide.pdf (4.54 MB, 121 views)
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post #2 of 4615 Old 07-11-2013, 01:29 PM
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I'd rank having a functional tuner and adequate case cooling above receiving extended guide data on the priorities list.
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post #3 of 4615 Old 07-11-2013, 02:58 PM
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I'd really like it if it just works the way they say it should... I know, what a dreamer.

I love the digital transition. The voices in my head just say 0 and 1 now.
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post #4 of 4615 Old 07-11-2013, 04:36 PM
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It is indeed very good news to hear that Channel Master and EchoStar are teaming up again with this new DVR. The previous DTVPal/CM-7000Pal version was an outstanding unit and a much better performer than the flawed CM-7400 version from Entone. So hopefully it will have another very good tuner like the previous Pal, and won't suffer from overheating like the Entone model. Glad to hear more details, as the CM sales rep previously had no further information. Looking forward to the release of this box.
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post #5 of 4615 Old 07-12-2013, 05:57 PM
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Well, I will have to follow this thread now. It is not so much that I mind paying Tivo a modest monthly fee but that I am forever stuck using the older "HD" model as I found the tuner in their newer Premier units to be inadequate. I tried D-VHS to record in HD and it only occasionally would fire a scheduled timer event. I tried the Channel Master version of the Pal and it turned out that a "known issue" was a audio and video glitch every 32 seconds on my local Fox affiliate. Thankfully I waited on the ePVision and CM-7400 until our more adventurous members tried them and the horror stories began to pour in. All that said, I can not be terribly optimistic about another prospective OTA recorder, but it is interesting fare and I look forward to updates on this subject.
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post #6 of 4615 Old 07-12-2013, 06:12 PM
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The previous Pal version that EchoStar designed was a very good DVR, with very few issues compared to other models such as the 7400 and the VRX. Plus very good tuner. So I am very happy to hear that they are apparently designing the new Channel Master version again. But I wonder if they will also sell a Dish Network branded box again as well.
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post #7 of 4615 Old 07-13-2013, 02:06 PM
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One more for the list. I bet TiVo is preparing their lawsuits already just after CM made the announcement. tongue.gif

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #8 of 4615 Old 07-14-2013, 04:57 PM
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I wonder what retail price points they are designing these DVRs for. $300 to $400 perhaps for the model with the 320GB hard drive??? confused.gif

Seeing that they will have internet connectivity it would be nice if they got their time setting from a reliable internet time server and used an internet-based TV program guide (something like tvguide.com) to get full program listings. The question is can they (or will they) do that without charging any additional subscriber fees to the end-user.
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post #9 of 4615 Old 07-14-2013, 06:07 PM
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post #10 of 4615 Old 07-14-2013, 06:23 PM
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They can't provide a web-based guide service for free, because letting a DVR access those sites would get them sued. TitanTV and similar guide services have ToS restrictions that say they may only be accessed through a web browser by a person. Devices aren't allowed to troll them for listings.
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post #11 of 4615 Old 07-14-2013, 06:55 PM
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YES!!! I own two PalDVRs purchased from the beginning and upgraded to 1T drives. I love this box - it works without any problems - you just have to adapt to it's unique requirements like:

1. Start out your viewing day by accessing every saved channel at least as long as the channel popup label lasts onscreen (10 sec. longer for .01 channels preferred)
2. Access again PBS channels as above (non-major stations) after long DVR usage to reload/extend these 10-12 hrs listing beyond their previous hour.

It would be nice to not have to do this every day, but it is a very small concession to cost free HD TV reception. The quality of service provided has been commented on by visitors. The experience EchoStar had with the PalDVR and Channel Master had with the 7400 SHOULD result in a superior product free of these problems or unique requirements, and as long as they provide software updates to correct deficiencies/limitations and upgrades to expand capabilities, Channel Master will have a product to be proud of, and I personally will buy two.

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post #12 of 4615 Old 07-14-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
and as long as they provide software updates to correct deficiencies/limitations and upgrades to expand capabilities,
I'm glad you added that.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #13 of 4615 Old 07-15-2013, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

YES!!! I own two PalDVRs purchased from the beginning and upgraded to 1T drives. I love this box - it works without any problems - you just have to adapt to it's unique requirements like:

1. Start out your viewing day by accessing every saved channel at least as long as the channel popup label lasts onscreen (10 sec. longer for .01 channels preferred)
2. Access again PBS channels as above (non-major stations) after long DVR usage to reload/extend these 10-12 hrs listing beyond their previous hour.

It would be nice to not have to do this every day, but it is a very small concession to cost free HD TV reception. The quality of service provided has been commented on by visitors. The experience EchoStar had with the PalDVR and Channel Master had with the 7400 SHOULD result in a superior product free of these problems or unique requirements, and as long as they provide software updates to correct deficiencies/limitations and upgrades to expand capabilities, Channel Master will have a product to be proud of, and I personally will buy two.

Donald1800

I don't see these as unique. This is a function of having to use the EPG instead of TVGOS. I have owned other DVRs that use only EPG and they behave the same. I don't see this changing with any DVR that uses EPG for the guide. I am OK with EPG. Just wish stations would do at least 3 days and more would be better of course. Getting TVGOS back would be even better.
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post #14 of 4615 Old 07-15-2013, 03:14 PM
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TVGOS is a non-starter - ROVI controls that - but an internet guide (even if provided by Echostar) should be possible in some form.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #15 of 4615 Old 07-15-2013, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

TVGOS is a non-starter - ROVI controls that - but an internet guide (even if provided by Echostar) should be possible in some form.

They could incorporate the TVGOS internet version into these DVRs and bury that in the purchase price of the unit. The thing is who knows how long ROVI will support the internet-based TVGOS before they decide to pull the plug on that too like they did with OTA TVGOS. mad.gif

It will be interesting to see what road they take as far as the EPG is concerned. I think a bare-bones PSIP-based guide should be included as a minimum.
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post #16 of 4615 Old 07-15-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

TVGOS is a non-starter - ROVI controls that - but an internet guide (even if provided by Echostar) should be possible in some form.

As Rovi has discontinued TVGOS, it's very much a non-starter. I would hope that if it has an internet-based EPG it would also allow you to choose PSIP as an alternate for several reasons: As we saw with TVGOS and Boxee, third party and OEM services do get shut down. Imagine how useless a DTVpal would be without PSIP data as an alternate? And some people like my parents don't have access to an internet connection, or don't want it. (I know, what's their problem, right?)

I'm thinking it will have a paid internet EPG, and/or free PSIP.

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post #17 of 4615 Old 07-15-2013, 04:29 PM
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Interesting moment: ROVI took the plunge AFTER they get our money (as a part of DVR's price) frown.gif
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New Samsung Smart TVs have a Rovi guide available in the Samsung Apps. And their new On TV feature seems to get internet based data, perhaps also from Rovi. And the EPG may get internet based data, but not sure if PSIP. It is set up for at least a month, but goes about 48 hours per channel. Don't know if the On TV feature could be adapted for recording purposes, but does allow for timing and scheduling of viewing specific programs.
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post #19 of 4615 Old 07-15-2013, 07:16 PM
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It would be pretty surprising if this didn't support the PSIP guide, since it's a national standard. Getting support for it isn't the hard part. Getting your local stations to send longer guides with useful information is. wink.gif
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post #20 of 4615 Old 07-16-2013, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

YES!!! I own two PalDVRs purchased from the beginning and upgraded to 1T drives. I love this box - it works without any problems - you just have to adapt to it's unique requirements like:

1. Start out your viewing day by accessing every saved channel at least as long as the channel popup label lasts onscreen (10 sec. longer for .01 channels preferred)
2. Access again PBS channels as above (non-major stations) after long DVR usage to reload/extend these 10-12 hrs listing beyond their previous hour.

It would be nice to not have to do this every day, but it is a very small concession to cost free HD TV reception. The quality of service provided has been commented on by visitors. The experience EchoStar had with the PalDVR and Channel Master had with the 7400 SHOULD result in a superior product free of these problems or unique requirements, and as long as they provide software updates to correct deficiencies/limitations and upgrades to expand capabilities, Channel Master will have a product to be proud of, and I personally will buy two.

Donald1800

I don't see these as unique. This is a function of having to use the EPG instead of TVGOS. I have owned other DVRs that use only EPG and they behave the same. I don't see this changing with any DVR that uses EPG for the guide. I am OK with EPG. Just wish stations would do at least 3 days and more would be better of course. Getting TVGOS back would be even better.
confused.gif I don't ever have to do this. My Pals keep their EPGs up-to-date from PSIP data automatically. The only time I've ever needed to tune through all channels to update the EPGs is if tuner 2 was being kept busy with a very long recording.

I'd suggest a factory defaults reset - you may find you no longer need to manually update your EPGs either. Of course, how much data you receive will depend on the station (in DFW ours range from 12 hours to 5-6 days).

All that said, of course it would be best if their new DVR offers a longer Internet-based guide, whether Internet-based TVGOS or a paid guide a la the CM-7400. PSIP-based guides are often too short for serious DVR users.
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post #21 of 4615 Old 07-16-2013, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister B View Post

I tried the Channel Master version of the Pal and it turned out that a "known issue" was a audio and video glitch every 32 seconds on my local Fox affiliate.
Must be rare - I follow the DTVPal & CM-7000Pal threads closely and this is the first time I've heard of such an issue (and needless to say I haven't experienced it myself). Where did you discover it was a known issue?

BTW, another alternative you may consider is DVICO's TViX 6620. It has a short EPG and issues with Ion, though. But if you delete Fox from your Pal and Ion from the 6620, you should still have your bases covered smile.gif
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post #22 of 4615 Old 07-17-2013, 09:34 AM
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This is from page one, item 12 of the official AVS Dish DTV Pal DVR topic. (too long of a post to edit out the rest of a quote)

Audio/Video dropouts every 30-32 seconds on certain channels.

The DTVPal DVR exhibits A/V dropouts every 30-32 seconds on some channels. This appears to be an incompatibility between the DTVPal DVR and the encoder and/or PSIP settings used by some broadcasters. This is not a common issue.

Just my luck.
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post #23 of 4615 Old 07-17-2013, 09:59 AM
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that was very rare occasion and really no one get into it deep enough to understand, the description of the reason is vague and totally incorrect (PSIP can't distort video/audio); I did ask to record the stream and play by VLC to see diag messages, but no one is interesting get it, just talking
it become red herring
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post #24 of 4615 Old 07-22-2013, 02:59 PM
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I'm really having excellent success with both my Dish DTVPal (3+ years) and my more recent acquisition in December 2012 of the CM7400. Both have performed well, though the CM7400 is clearly less stable and far less capable of functioning without the (free) station-supplied data feed vs. the paid schedule feed. The CM7400's menu and associated number keystrokes to accomplish a particular task are also far less efficient.

I trust that in this next iteration, the Channel Master folks will learn from their UI mistakes on the CM7400. As a grizzled veteran of the now DirectTV-owned ReplayTV operation here in the Silicon Valley, I'd suggest that EchoStar and CM could learn from the near-perfect UI that Replay had created. Curiously, even though a veritable phalanx of Madison Avenue and Network lawyers forced a shutdown in Replay's "Automatic Commercial Advance" algorithm, it has been interesting to see how Dish/EchoStar has enabled similar automatic commercial skipping technology in their Hopper product.

On my wish list for the CM7400 replacement: Commercial skipping. And should they see another phalanx moving in their direction, just make this skipping function an undocumented "manually activated feature" like on the Tivo.

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post #25 of 4615 Old 07-23-2013, 04:26 AM
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For those that aren't aware, CM is a name only. Not unlike many other "brand names" that were acquired by some other (usually) non-related company to make a fast buck with the customer loosing.
I came across this, though a somewhat unusual reference, but it still told the story;
Quote:
Channel Master was acquired by Andrew Corporation in July 2003, then the Channel Master division was acquired by PCT international in October 2006. My employment with PCT continued thru July 2010 when all Smithfield operations were consolidated to other PCT locations.

http://www.indeed.com/r/Dene-Cooke/550ccce1d1cf3d6f

Interestingly, there is nothing in their "About" page regarding the CM name;
http://www.pctinternational.com/

I was hoping being taken over by Andrew would be an advantage, but that didn't last. rolleyes.gif

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post #26 of 4615 Old 07-23-2013, 05:04 AM
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Let’s see, did I get this correct?

2T storage for DVR without hard drive, just really nice chips

4 OTA tuner minimum with 6 for the upgrade model; with tuners that actually work.

A real guide program data that is accurate! And updated at least twice a day for last minute scheduling changes.

PSIP for back up guide and when that fails manual record by date and time.

At least 20th century “Transport Controls” with user definable Smart Queues, ultra high speed time slicing for all scanning levels (non-jerky), user definable book marks, 5 level slo-mo.

Multiple sourcing for “clock” with manual over ride, and user selectable.

User definable and stored “keyword” search for when the Season Pass and Wish List do not do the job.

User definable Grid Layout. Take what the Sony did and improve it by 10 times.

Bug Free software and firmware with “fixes” that actually work.

Price it at $99 with Guide included.

I am sure TiVo will prevent any of this happening since they have a patent on creating planet earth.
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post #27 of 4615 Old 07-23-2013, 05:12 AM
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There are probably a dozen of those available over in China (and probably most other countries). tongue.gif

(I'd be happy for two tuners and a price tag of $300 for all of that)

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #28 of 4615 Old 07-23-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

For those that aren't aware, CM is a name only. Not unlike many other "brand names" that were acquired by some other (usually) non-related company to make a fast buck with the customer loosing.
I came across this, though a somewhat unusual reference, but it still told the story;
http://www.indeed.com/r/Dene-Cooke/550ccce1d1cf3d6f

Interestingly, there is nothing in their "About" page regarding the CM name;
http://www.pctinternational.com/

I was hoping being taken over by Andrew would be an advantage, but that didn't last. rolleyes.gif
As noted, the Smithfield, NC production facility for Channel Master was shut down in 2010. That was the end of the original Channel Master antenna designs made in the USA. Channel Master now operates as a separate division of PCT now headquartered in Phoenix, Arizona. Antennas are subcontracted and made in China. The PCT/CM distribution amps are among their better made current products.
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post #29 of 4615 Old 07-23-2013, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Let’s see, did I get this correct?

2T storage for DVR without hard drive, just really nice chips

4 OTA tuner minimum with 6 for the upgrade model; with tuners that actually work.

A real guide program data that is accurate! And updated at least twice a day for last minute scheduling changes.

PSIP for back up guide and when that fails manual record by date and time.

At least 20th century “Transport Controls” with user definable Smart Queues, ultra high speed time slicing for all scanning levels (non-jerky), user definable book marks, 5 level slo-mo.

Multiple sourcing for “clock” with manual over ride, and user selectable.

User definable and stored “keyword” search for when the Season Pass and Wish List do not do the job.

User definable Grid Layout. Take what the Sony did and improve it by 10 times.

Bug Free software and firmware with “fixes” that actually work.

Price it at $99 with Guide included.

I am sure TiVo will prevent any of this happening since they have a patent on creating planet earth.

Can we get wireless n and a, OTT stuff like Amazon, etc., Pandora, etc., yradio, SiriusXM, user selectable ntp, 20 or 30 diagnostic screens, and USB inputs? I'd pay at least a dollar more to make it an even $100.

smile.gif

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post #30 of 4615 Old 07-23-2013, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Let’s see, did I get this correct?
. . .
Price it at $99 with Guide included.
I think $99 is a little too steep. It won't sell well at walmart for that price.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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