Homeworx HW-150PVR, Support and Discussion - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1525 Old 09-12-2013, 09:55 PM
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Is it still true that the clocks on these cannot be manually set therefore they are useless for (timed) recording from cable?

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post #272 of 1525 Old 09-12-2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Is it still true that the clocks on these cannot be manually set therefore they are useless for (timed) recording from cable?

The clock cannot be set manually. It depends on what info your cable company does or doesn't send as to whether that means you will not be able to schedule recordings.
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post #273 of 1525 Old 09-12-2013, 10:21 PM
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Is it still true that the clocks on these cannot be manually set therefore they are useless for (timed) recording from cable?

The clock cannot be set manually. It depends on what info your cable company does or doesn't send as to whether that means you will not be able to schedule recordings.
Thanks for the reply. Oooooooo........so how do I find out about that? All I know is they (Cox) have clear unencrypted QAM (no STB needed) from 2~99 (those are SD), plus several local channels and network affiliates in HD (still no STB needed).

Thanks.

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post #274 of 1525 Old 09-12-2013, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Thanks for the reply. Oooooooo........so how do I find out about that? All I know is they (Cox) have clear unencrypted QAM (no STB needed) from 2~99 (those are SD), plus several local channels and network affiliates in HD (still no STB needed).

Thanks.

Does your TV (or anyone you know's TV that has the same cable) have a program guide? If so, and you get program data without using an STB or cablecard, that is a good sign. I say a good sign because that still will not tell you for certain whether the clock is set correctly since the TV will be using it's own clock. But if you don't get any program data, that will tell you it is unlikely they will be sending clock data. You could try contacting tech support at cox and asking - don't know if you will get correct answer - or post in a local thread for your area and see if anyone can tell you. That's all I can think of - others on here may know ways you can find out. I haven't had cable in years so I haven't been paying attention to this much. There are a couple people on this thread that are very interested in this issue so I expect they will let you know if there is definite way for you to determine this.
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post #275 of 1525 Old 09-12-2013, 11:38 PM
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Thanks for the reply. Oooooooo........so how do I find out about that? All I know is they (Cox) have clear unencrypted QAM (no STB needed) from 2~99 (those are SD), plus several local channels and network affiliates in HD (still no STB needed).

Thanks.

Does your TV (or anyone you know's TV that has the same cable) have a program guide? If so, and you get program data without using an STB or cablecard, that is a good sign. I say a good sign because that still will not tell you for certain whether the clock is set correctly since the TV will be using it's own clock. But if you don't get any program data, that will tell you it is unlikely they will be sending clock data.
I appreciate the info. No, TMK there is no EPG without the STB. But (if it matters and I doubt it does), their time signal does come though LPB (PBS) which is on a clear QAM unencrypted channel (SD 12 and HD 712).

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You could try contacting tech support at cox and asking - don't know if you will get correct answer -
I would assume everyone else's cable co's TS is as appalling as Cox's. eek.gif They haven't got a clue as to what they are doing, what they are selling, nor how anything works. wink.gif

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or post in a local thread for your area and see if anyone can tell you. That's all I can think of - others on here may know ways you can find out. I haven't had cable in years so I haven't been paying attention to this much. There are a couple people on this thread that are very interested in this issue so I expect they will let you know if there is definite way for you to determine this.
Earlier back in this thread it was "determined" that this device wouldn't work for me (on cable) due to not being able to set the clock manually (how could any company create a device where you couldn't set the clock??), but with the recent FW updates including QAM support, I was wondering if that had changed.

Thank you again.

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post #276 of 1525 Old 09-12-2013, 11:43 PM
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Well, technically, Homeworx isn't supporting the QAM software. They said they are making it available but will not support. So, if you were to buy at all, I would suggest looking at the iview 3500 which is basically the same box with QAM support. Same clock issue, so if you are not getting clock data sent from cox then you still want to look elsewhere.
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post #277 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 03:48 AM
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Well, technically, Homeworx isn't supporting the QAM software. They said they are making it available but will not support.
By "support" I didn't meant tech support (which rarely exists anyway), I simply meant it will work with it.

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So, if you were to buy at all, I would suggest looking at the iview 3500 which is basically the same box with QAM support.
I did look at the Iview when I was checking these out, but there was a problem with it and now I can't remember what that was.

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Same clock issue, so if you are not getting clock data sent from cox then you still want to look elsewhere
By "clock data" is that a "yes" or "no" to my last post? "But (if it matters and I doubt it does), their time signal does come though LPB (PBS) which is on a clear QAM unencrypted channel (SD 12 and HD 712)."

Is that sufficient?

Thanks.

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post #278 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 01:22 PM
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I assume by LPB you mean Latino Public Broadcasting, and if so, I don't know what you mean by it sending "their time signal". There used to be a system for transmitting the time on PBS stations back in the NTSC days as a way of setting VCR clocks, but that was only OTA and is no longer used with ATSC. Each station is responsible for sending its own time data. Whatever your LPB channel is doing, it's probably useless, as the iView and Homeworx only set their clocks through PSIP and require each station to transmit the correct time.

If I may ask, why are you asking about these units again? I thought you already ruled them out and decided to get a Magnavox DVD/HDD recorder. Did you find some reason that the Magnavox wouldn't work, either?
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post #279 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 01:45 PM
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I assume by LPB you mean Latino Public Broadcasting.....

Umm, make that Louisiana Public Broadcasting smile.gif

Don't ever make the MISTAKE of buying a Samsung TV..
They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..
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post #280 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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Since the hardware will not allow manual setting of the time (according to the competition since these use the same board), the only solution I see, if it is possible, is specifying which station is used to set the time. Of course if your MSO is messed up across the board, then that won't help.

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post #281 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

I assume by LPB you mean Latino Public Broadcasting,
biggrin.gif No, like "WS65711" said, "LA".

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and if so, I don't know what you mean by it sending "their time signal". There used to be a system for transmitting the time on PBS stations back in the NTSC days as a way of setting VCR clocks, but that was only OTA and is no longer used with ATSC.
I don't know how else to describe other than "time signal". And yes, they still use that system, at least on basic cable (A/D line, and the signal is sent on the SD channel of PBS and the HD version). With an STB, I don't know the time signal is sent.

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Each station is responsible for sending its own time data. Whatever your LPB channel is doing, it's probably useless, as the iView and Homeworx only set their clocks through PSIP and require each station to transmit the correct time.
Ok. I assume you mean "useless" as far as the Homeworx is concerned. ?

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If I may ask, why are you asking about these units again? I thought you already ruled them out and decided to get a Magnavox DVD/HDD recorder. Did you find some reason that the Magnavox wouldn't work, either?
No I love it! I'm just looking at other things for HDTV. FAIK the Mag may look fine on an HDTV, I haven't tried it on one yet.

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post #282 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 09:35 PM
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Since the hardware will not allow manual setting of the time (according to the competition since these use the same board), the only solution I see, if it is possible, is specifying which station is used to set the time. Of course if your MSO is messed up across the board, then that won't help.
So that would work as far as timer recordings go. But what I don't get, is what do you do when all of these networks insist on showing several extra unscheduled BS commercial minutes? You just always miss the endings of programs, because you can't set it to record 2-8+ minutes extra per recording?

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post #283 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 09:47 PM
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So that would work as far as timer recordings go. But what I don't get, is what do you do when all of these networks insist on showing several extra unscheduled BS commercial minutes? You just always miss the endings of programs, because you can't set it to record 2-8+ minutes extra per recording?

You can set it to record for any length you want. If a program is from 8-9, you can set it to record from 7:55 to 9:05 or whatever start and stop time you want. Now when it actually begins and ends the recording depends on what time is sent from the station you are on. If the station is sending time that is 10 minutes early, with the above recording, it would end up starting in real time at 7:45 and ending at 8:55. If you're not getting any time info sent at all, it will never start the recording.
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post #284 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 10:48 PM
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So that would work as far as timer recordings go. But what I don't get, is what do you do when all of these networks insist on showing several extra unscheduled BS commercial minutes? You just always miss the endings of programs, because you can't set it to record 2-8+ minutes extra per recording?

You can set it to record for any length you want. If a program is from 8-9, you can set it to record from 7:55 to 9:05 or whatever start and stop time you want. Now when it actually begins and ends the recording depends on what time is sent from the station you are on. If the station is sending time that is 10 minutes early, with the above recording, it would end up starting in real time at 7:45 and ending at 8:55. If you're not getting any time info sent at all, it will never start the recording.
confused.gif Well that sounds like it's "manually adjustable" to me. Evidently, (if I'm correct), you cannot actually set the clock, however, once the clock is set (by PBS?), you can then manually adjust timed recordings. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks.

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post #285 of 1525 Old 09-13-2013, 10:52 PM
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confused.gif Well that sounds like it's "manually adjustable" to me. Evidently, (if I'm correct), you cannot actually set the clock, however, once the clock is set (by PBS?), you can then manually adjust timed recordings. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks.

No, I don't think you understand it fully. You can manually schedule recording times. The clock, however, is not set one time. It is set everytime a channel is locked onto by the PSIP data sent by that station. So, it continually changes according to what channel you are on.
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post #286 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 03:50 AM
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I have found on my "Homeview/iWorx" that if you leave the box on a channel that you know keeps the correct time it will record at the proper time, regardless of what the clock is showing on the channel to be recorded. This was with OTA, but I tested it and it worked. The other option is to adjust the start/stop time as stated above. Go into "Timer" and add event, choose the channel, then adjust the date and start/stop time accordingly and hit OK and it should work.
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post #287 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 04:38 AM
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For those that are having a clock set problem, have you tried leaving it on different stations to see which are the offenders and how & when this updates or checks the time?

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post #288 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 04:53 AM
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confused.gif Well that sounds like it's "manually adjustable" to me. Evidently, (if I'm correct), you cannot actually set the clock, however, once the clock is set (by PBS?), you can then manually adjust timed recordings. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks.

No, I don't think you understand it fully. You can manually schedule recording times. The clock, however, is not set one time. It is set everytime a channel is locked onto by the PSIP data sent by that station. So, it continually changes according to what channel you are on.
Ok let's try and word it this way now instead: "Evidently, (if I'm correct), you cannot actually set the clock, however, once the clock is set (by PBS?, and is set anytime it finds a time signal), you can then manually adjust timed recordings. Do I understand this correctly?

Will that sentence work? wink.gif

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post #289 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 09:08 AM
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just got my homework

can't do recordings from Epg page?

anyone try harmony remotes ??
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post #290 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 12:19 PM
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For those that are having a clock set problem, have you tried leaving it on different stations to see which are the offenders and how & when this updates or checks the time?

The clock change happens immediately for me upon changing to the channel (using OTA), which is why I stated that the time is set upon the box getting a lock on the new channel and receiving the PSIP info. It shows up as soon as the program info shows up on the info popup.
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post #291 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 12:24 PM
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just got my homework

can't do recordings from Epg page?

anyone try harmony remotes ??

Harmony does have codes for this and I use it on my 650 quite easily. You can set recordings from the EPG by clicking ok when the program you want is highlighted. It will send you to the add event screen with the fields pre-filled, which you can change however you wish. What problem are you having?
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post #292 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 01:48 PM
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Will that sentence work?

No. It has nothing to do with PBS. Every OTA network transmits the time, not just PBS. If every network has a correct clock, then there are no problems. If some networks have incorrect clocks, then the DVR's clock will sync with the incorrect times upon tuning to those networks, and then you'll need to adjust your timers to compensate if you want to record on those networks. If you're on cable and don't get PSIP time from any station, then it doesn't matter how you set your timers, because the time when the DVR is set to start recording will never arrive.
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post #293 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 08:29 PM
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Have any of you considered emailing or calling on the phone your particular local station's engineer, and ask them to fix their time sync clock? They do typically make these fixes if it's brought to their attention...

These iView and Homeworx dvr's are based on the same design of the newer DVB FTA satellite receiver chipsets, (more or less) and work exactly the same (except they are ATSC, versus DVB or DVB-S2) Some FTA satellite receivers also do ATSC tv. They get their clock signal from the transponder on satellite, which is usually wrong in the USA. However, you can turn the GMT clock setting OFF, and set the clock to your local time. Some fta receivers are also internet connectible, and can get their time from the same servers pc's get their time from.

Since DVB receivers (including ones with ATSC capability) can turn their satellite time sync OFF, and set local time, it begs the question why iView and Homeworx companies can't create a firmware that also does the same?
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post #294 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 08:39 PM
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Have any of you considered emailing or calling on the phone your particular local station's engineer, and ask them to fix their time sync clock? They do typically make these fixes if it's brought to their attention...

These iView and Homeworx dvr's are based on the same design of the newer DVB FTA satellite receiver chipsets, (more or less) and work exactly the same (except they are ATSC, versus DVB or DVB-S2) Some FTA satellite receivers also do ATSC tv. They get their clock signal from the transponder on satellite, which is usually wrong in the USA. However, you can turn the GMT clock setting OFF, and set the clock to your local time. Some fta receivers are also internet connectible, and can get their time from the same servers pc's get their time from.

Since DVB receivers (including ones with ATSC capability) can turn their satellite time sync OFF, and set local time, it begs the question why iView and Homeworx companies can't create a firmware that also does the same?

Some of us on the iview thread have contacted stations with mixed results, some successfully fixed, other ignored. I had one station fix theirs but the 3 others I contacted didn't. One told me I didn't know what I was talking about and insisted their time was correct when it clearly isn't, another said they'd fix it but never did (this happened repeatedly so I gave up), one said they couldn't change it and we had the most ridiculous conversation about this that you can imagine.
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post #295 of 1525 Old 09-14-2013, 09:05 PM
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Will that sentence work?

No. It has nothing to do with PBS. Every OTA network transmits the time, not just PBS. If every network has a correct clock, then there are no problems. If some networks have incorrect clocks, then the DVR's clock will sync with the incorrect times upon tuning to those networks, and then you'll need to adjust your timers to compensate if you want to record on those networks. If you're on cable and don't get PSIP time from any station, then it doesn't matter how you set your timers, because the time when the DVR is set to start recording will never arrive.
This is regarding cable, not OTA.

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post #296 of 1525 Old 09-15-2013, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Primestar31 View Post

Have any of you considered emailing or calling on the phone your particular local station's engineer, and ask them to fix their time sync clock? They do typically make these fixes if it's brought to their attention...

That's a possible solution for people who want to use an antenna, but it doesn't help people who are trying to use cable, since most cable companies don't even provide an incorrect PSIP time: they provide no time at all. Of course, Homeworx has somewhat acknowledged this limitation by pulling official support for the QAM firmware, but it's still disappointing to have no way to set the clock manually or by NTP.
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post #297 of 1525 Old 09-15-2013, 04:52 AM
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These iView and Homeworx dvr's are based on the same design of the newer DVB FTA satellite receiver chipsets, (more or less)
Which is where the silly TV/Radio deal comes from.

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Since DVB receivers (including ones with ATSC capability) can turn their satellite time sync OFF, and set local time, it begs the question why iView and Homeworx companies can't create a firmware that also does the same?
iView claims it is a hardware problem, it supposedly can't be done. It may be able to be turned off, but it may not be possible to create a function to manually set the time.

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post #298 of 1525 Old 09-16-2013, 01:27 PM
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I'll try to clarify the time signal mess. I understand how confusing it can be.

First, back in the analog era, there was a time signal carried by many PBS stations. That's long gone, but any analog signal can carry a similar time signal. For example, my old SD satellite receiver outputs the analog time signal, and I have an old VCR getting its time from that receiver to prove it. It's possible that Cox also does this on one or more of their analog channels, if they have any left.

Second, for digital over-the-air, there's a time signal included in each station's PSIP. Note the difference: with analog, there was one station (typically PBS) broadcasting a time signal. With digital, each station broadcasts its own time signal. PSIP is the only time signal supported by the Homeworx or iView: they don't even have an analog tuner, so they couldn't possibly support the old analog time signal even if it's available.

For the Homeworx or iView to start a timed recording, an accurate PSIP time signal must be available on the station it's tuned to. That's the station it "listens" to in order to start the recording. A time signal on another station wouldn't help.

Third, cable companies don't generally rebroadcast OTA digital signals unmodified. Instead, they extract the streams they want and multiplex them onto their own digital channels. Unfortunately, this process drops the PSIP info from the OTA stations.

A cable company could insert its own PSIP onto its QAM channels, but many don't. Instead, they use their own cable industry standards for the functions that OTA stations use PSIP for, including time. The Homeworx, iView, and in fact most clear QAM tuners don't support those cable standards. That's why the Homeworx and iView don't work well with most cable systems.

In short, Cox is probably sending the time, but not in a form that the Homeworx or iView can use. The Homeworx and iView need PSIP, and they need it on every station.

Clint's local HD channels (e.g., channel 712) are QAM. His SD channels, 2-99, could be QAM or analog. (Probably mostly QAM, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least some turned out to be analog.) The Homeworx and iView will receive the QAM channels (but not any analog ones). However, without PSIP they will almost surely have different channel numbers. A cable user would just have to tune through all the channels (potentially hundreds) and find out which ones are which. (Many will turn out to be scrambled channels, which can just be deleted of course.)

One last thing: it's important to understand that the Homeworx and iView don't have a "clock," in the sense of a gadget that keeps reasonably accurate time once you set it. They rely on PSIP time being broadcast continuously. (It's more like a stopped clock that gets reset every second!) It might be possible to rig a true clock in the firmware, if there's some periodic interrupt occurring at the hardware level, but no guarantees - and even if possible, it could still take a major rewrite of the firmware to enable a true clock. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
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post #299 of 1525 Old 09-16-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

For the Homeworx or iView to start a timed recording, an accurate PSIP time signal must be available on the station it's tuned to. That's the station it "listens" to in order to start the recording. A time signal on another station wouldn't help.

That explanation seems a bit unclear. The key is that if you already have the DVR turned on and tuned to a channel with a clock when it's time to make a recording, the clock of the channel you were watching is used to start the timer, rather than the clock of the station you're recording. As such, you can somewhat mitigate the problem of certain channels having bad clocks by creating "Viewing" timers which occur on channels with accurate clocks prior to "Recording" timers which occur on channels with inaccurate clocks. A time signal on another station can, therefore, help.

Of course, if the channel you want to record always sends an inaccurate clock with a fixed difference between its time and the real time, you could just adjust your timers for that channel accordingly, but doing this could also cause you to miss timers on other channels that have different clocks. If a channel's clock varies wildly from day to day, or you need to record on different channels in succession, using Viewing timers might make it easier to record on time.

Again, this doesn't help cable users, since most cable systems have zero channels with clock data, thus preventing you from using a "master" channel for setting the clock.
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post #300 of 1525 Old 09-16-2013, 08:32 PM
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About 25% of my scheduled recordings are not recording probably more . The timer turns on the device but the recording does not start , when checking the timer the screen has nothing scheduled . The timer will turn off the device at the end ,but no recording . It doesn't matter if it was scheduled with the epg or set manually . Any suggestions ? Also I am sure that it is scheduled to record not view.
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