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post #61 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 07:43 AM
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Troubleshooting the clock setting issue.

I don't have issues with OTA, but there surely are issues on my TWC system (QAM). There appears only one physical channel that has the correct time; ch. 21. All the others are off anywhere from 20 minutes to several hours. One even sets the clock to 00:00.
I tried to see if there is a pattern to this. It appears certain channels will change the time as soon as the video appears. Other channels have no effect. It also appears that it depends on where the last time set was made. The channels that change the time don't always do so when returning from the other channels that have changed it again.
Hopefully some of that make sense. redface.gif

A possible solution is for the user to skip around (so to speak) and when he finds a channel (station) that sets the time correctly, have a menu entry :Use this station for the time set" or something similar. Then the system would ignore all other stations. This is of course if a actual manual time set is not possible as I was told.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #62 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 09:07 AM
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Tried it last night here on Comcast lifeline
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Regarding the enabling of QAM;

1, Do NOT do a channel scan (unless you want to manually "skip" a hundred or so channels). Encrypted channels (sub channels) will NOT be skipped!
learned that the hard way. Had like 180 channels and I wasnt even through channel 60
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2. Only do a manual channel add, one physical channel number at a time. What makes it annoying is after each "save", the menu closes forcing you to re-enter it for each additional physical channel number (one of the complaints I have have with iView).
agreed
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4. Only the physical channel numbers will be shown. If your MSO does use the OTA virtual number it will not show. (This was the way iViews firmware was until it was corrected.)
this bums me out as there is no guide. At least on my HDTV's it remaps properly so the locals have guide info (Comcast)
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6. If you don't know your physical channel numbers your MSO uses for your unencrypted stations, either try to get them from them (it will take a few phone calls) or try your local reception thread and ask there.
I ended up hooking up my smaller AOC HDTV and scanning and watching it log channels and wrote them down (the RF channel being used). I did use the silicondust website to verify but this other way worked.
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post #63 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 09:24 AM
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Some tuners as this and the VRX will also show the physical channel number which is really nice in cases as this.
What slows you down with the process I use is the constant closing of the menu every time. mad.gif

Mediasonic are you listening??

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #64 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Some tuners as this and the VRX will also show the physical channel number which is really nice in cases as this.
What slows you down with the process I use is the constant closing of the menu every time. mad.gif

Mediasonic are you listening??

I'm confused about your observations. There is some clock data on the feed which implies PSIP data. But you're saying the program data is absent and the channel numbers show only the physical (clear QAM?) channel numbers. But are they mapped anyhow?

 

All my HD channels have mirror SD and analog channels. Here is a partial list of clear QAM channels from my headend. Many more channels are scrambled. I have no PSIP data but a TiVo with a cable card helps to figure out the real channels since the frequency is the same with or without the card.

 

They must be listening, but there is a language issue you will have to work with carefully.

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post #65 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 10:44 AM
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There is some clock data on the feed which implies PSIP data.
I assume there has to be something for the system to set the clock (correct or incorrect).
.
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But you're saying the program data is absent and the channel numbers show only the physical (clear QAM?) channel numbers.
With ths version of the FW, they only show the physical numbers unlike the newer versions of the iView FW which show the OTA virtual numbers. The other non OTA services will still show the physical number.
.
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All my HD channels have mirror SD and analog channels.
Same here, which is unnecessary duplication AFAIC. They cry about the lack of bandwidth, but continue this practice. Yes, I'm aware there are analog TV's out there, but they offer a free tuner converter for older TV's to solve that problem.

.
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They must be listening, but there is a language issue you will have to work with carefully.
If anyone is aware of that, I am. frown.gif A perfect example is the issue wih the menu closing after a channel search. How much clearer do I have to be??

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post #66 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


Same here, which is unnecessary duplication AFAIC. They cry about the lack of bandwidth, but continue this practice. Yes, I'm aware there are analog TV's out there, but they offer a free tuner converter for older TV's to solve that problem.
.
If anyone is aware of that, I am. frown.gif A perfect example is the issue wih the menu closing after a channel search. How much clearer do I have to be??

Yeah, I guess you are familiar.

 

My cable company, even with a STB, finds a way to charge for all those channels. They have various services or tiers that send 480i or 1080i depending what you pay for. You need a PhD to figure out their rate card. A lot is due to the rural older demo. Even with an HD channel, when you have watched your favorite program on channel 3 for 50 years, it would be like a hard freeze in St. Petersburg if that changed. My "free" DTA came in 2008. It's still in its box. But like I said, somebody is paying for that SD feed of NBC and somebody is paying for the HD feed. For $20 a month you can get the analog NBC channel but never realize that an HD television would give you an HD copy also. Or maybe not be able to tell the difference anyhow.

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post #67 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 11:36 AM
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Does your cable company insist on charging extra for HD? Is that why they broadcast SD duplicates of everything? (Of course, that would be rather pointless unless the HD versions were blocked to non-HD subscribers, either via encryption or with an RF filter at the junction box.)
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post #68 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Does your cable company insist on charging extra for HD? Is that why they broadcast SD duplicates of everything? (Of course, that would be rather pointless unless the HD versions were blocked to non-HD subscribers, either via encryption or with an RF filter at the junction box.)

That's a hard one to answer. But I'll try to be clear. All service now has a $3.50 a month retransmission charge. Everybody gets QVC, HSN, and other stuff like ETWN.

 

"Local only" cable gets you 23 analog channels and 10 HD channels for $20 a month. All you need is an HDTV to get the "local" HD channels. This service is required for a cable modem (up to 50Mbps).

 

"Basic cable" adds (in SD) networks like USA and TNT for $70 a month. Either one free DTA or an HDTV is needed. No increase in HD channels. Not all of these are mirror channels. CNBC, MSNBC and others are different in SD vs HD.

 

There are various "Variety Tiers" for sports and Spanish costing $10 to $20 a month. You need a STB or cable card for these. A cable card is $3 a month and a STB is $5 a month. It was an RNG110 last time I looked and its analog RWY output was always active.

 

For non-broadcast HD via a box or cable card there is "no charge" BUT they make you pay a $13 technology & 3D fee. If you get their DVR there is a unit charge and a service charge. I use a TiVo with a cable card.

 

If you have both a variety tier and HD service, you will get the variety channels in HD. The gotcha is you lose those channels even with HD service sometimes. I lost BBCAM that way, both SD and HD when I dropped the variety tier.

 

My DMA is Scranton-Wilkes-Barre. I get some NY and Philly channels. Oddly, some are clear QAM only and not part of any STB/cable card package. WPIX and WCAU would be examples. KYW was just dropped over retransmission fees. I wish ESPN and Disney would be split off, but they have too much clout.

 

The rate card and lineups can be found from links here. My cable company (corporate) runs from central PA to eastern-central NJ. There are a dozen or more headends with their own lineups and charges. 2011 and 2012 were pretty stable, but 2013 looks like a lot of activity which is not a good thing.

 

As for blocking something, there are no longer notch filters like the old analog days. Anything that goes past the "local" service is digital and can be blocked at the headend.

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post #69 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Some tuners as this and the VRX will also show the physical channel number which is really nice in cases as this.
What slows you down with the process I use is the constant closing of the menu every time. mad.gif

Mediasonic are you listening??

I will check if they can do anything to it
it does sound annoying the menu keeps closing
but you really only need to set all the channels once
and don't have to do it again
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post #70 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 01:56 PM
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JoeKustra; that is complicated. But I think the gist of it is:

23 local analog (SD) channels, ten local clear QAM (HD) channels, and many "basic cable" SD channels are available that only require equipment capable of receiving it. (I'm guessing that if you subscribe to "local only," the remaining basic channels are filtered from your cable at the company's junction box, so they don't need to be encrypted.)

But anything beyond that, including all HD channels beyond the ten local ones, is encrypted and requires a cable box or CableCARD, for which you must pay something (a $13 "technology fee" at minimum). I would interpret that as being charged extra for HD, except for locals. (Either that or you're being charged for the encryption itself. Imagine if your local retail store charged you a "scanner fee" for the anti-shoplifting scanners you have to walk through.)

On the locals, I would think they could drop any analog mirrors of the local HD channels and just provide STBs free (or nearly so) to folks still using analog TVs. That would free up a lot of bandwidth.

On the cable channels, I don't understand why cable companies are still charging extra for HD, even if it's lamely disguised as a "technology fee rolleyes.gif ." Five or ten years ago, it made sense: make the "early adopters" pay for the technology upgrades and increased bandwidth requirements. But in 2013? It's starting to remind me of AT&T's longstanding insistence on charging extra for Touch-Tone service, even long after it became more of a burden to continue supporting rotary dials!

Maybe it still makes sense for the channels you mentioned where SD and HD content is different. But for the rest, I'd think they could actually make more money by un-encrypting the HD channels, freeing up the bandwidth wasted on SD mirrors, and selling it off for additional content, faster Internet speeds, or anything else they can think of.
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post #71 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

JoeKustra; that is complicated. But I think the gist of it is:

23 local analog (SD) channels, ten local clear QAM (HD) channels, and many "basic cable" SD channels are available that only require equipment capable of receiving it. (I'm guessing that if you subscribe to "local only," the remaining basic channels are filtered from your cable at the company's junction box, so they don't need to be encrypted.)

But anything beyond that, including all HD channels beyond the ten local ones, is encrypted and requires a cable box or CableCARD, for which you must pay something (a $13 "technology fee" at minimum). I would interpret that as being charged extra for HD, except for locals. (Either that or you're being charged for the encryption itself. Imagine if your local retail store charged you a "scanner fee" for the anti-shoplifting scanners you have to walk through.)

On the locals, I would think they could drop any analog mirrors of the local HD channels and just provide STBs free (or nearly so) to folks still using analog TVs. That would free up a lot of bandwidth.

On the cable channels, I don't understand why cable companies are still charging extra for HD, even if it's lamely disguised as a "technology fee rolleyes.gif ." Five or ten years ago, it made sense: make the "early adopters" pay for the technology upgrades and increased bandwidth requirements. But in 2013? It's starting to remind me of AT&T's longstanding insistence on charging extra for Touch-Tone service, even long after it became more of a burden to continue supporting rotary dials!

Maybe it still makes sense for the channels you mentioned where SD and HD content is different. But for the rest, I'd think they could actually make more money by un-encrypting the HD channels, freeing up the bandwidth wasted on SD mirrors, and selling it off for additional content, faster Internet speeds, or anything else they can think of.

I think the problem is Comcast and many other CableCos. greedily thought they could shut down analog cable, clear QAM for cable channels and charge extra for HD and an analog service (sold as 'digital cable').

To do this they needed boxes. So they invested a LOT of money to put a cable adapter on every TV and charge for additional adapters, converters or HD 'upgrades'.

Fast forward a few years and SD mirrors SHOULD be scrapped. OTA and basic HD cable SHOULD be clear QAM.
Instead of providing homes with HD converters that can output an SD signal for older TVs, they have too much invested in SD equipment they never should have bought.

Seriously, why on earth would by buy large quantities of standard definition equipment that outputs analog signals AFTER the entire country has been switched over to HDTV? (That's rhetorical.)

They'll continue to use the adapters until they start running out of functioning units or their competition starts killing them over this.
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post #72 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

JoeKustra; that is complicated. But I think the gist of it is:

23 local analog (SD) channels, ten local clear QAM (HD) channels, and many "basic cable" SD channels are available that only require equipment capable of receiving it. (I'm guessing that if you subscribe to "local only," the remaining basic channels are filtered from your cable at the company's junction box, so they don't need to be encrypted.)

But anything beyond that, including all HD channels beyond the ten local ones, is encrypted and requires a cable box or CableCARD, for which you must pay something (a $13 "technology fee" at minimum). I would interpret that as being charged extra for HD, except for locals.

On the locals, I would think they could drop any analog mirrors of the local HD channels and just provide STBs free (or nearly so) to folks still using analog TVs. That would free up a lot of bandwidth.

On the cable channels, I don't understand why cable companies are still charging extra for HD, even if it's lamely disguised as a "technology fee rolleyes.gif ." Five or ten years ago, it made sense: make the "early adopters" pay for the technology upgrades and increased bandwidth requirements. But in 2013? It's starting to remind me of AT&T's longstanding insistence on charging extra for Touch-Tone service, even long after it became more of a burden to continue supporting rotary dials!

Maybe it still makes sense for the channels you mentioned where SD and HD content is different. But for the rest, I'd think they could actually make more money by un-encrypting the HD channels, freeing up the bandwidth wasted on SD mirrors, and selling it off for additional content, faster Internet speeds, or anything else they can think of.

I'm sorry it wasn't clear: I was not describing my service, just the service in general. But first, please let me say the SD means 480i digital/QAM. Analog, or vsb, is what everyone has used for 60 years. Also, premium channels are encrypted. When I scan my TV I get 23 analog and 140 digital. Of the digital, 40 are music, one is cable box control, and the rest are 480i for basic (I buy the lowest variety tier) and the "locals" are 720p and 1080i. With the TiVo and cable card I get about 200 HD channels with maybe 30 duplicates of 480i over a 1080i feed, like the weather channel.

 

Special tiers are encrypted also. I don't have any. All HD "locals" have 480i mirrors. I expect that all that analog space will go digital someday. Let me finish by saying that I get basic cable, cable card, and some HD network channels (like TNT & USA) plus 5Mbs internet for $109 a month. This is the 'a la carte' price and no bundle. The internet provider seems to use an Apple II for its DNS server.

 

One last funny story. This is cable related so we aren't too far OT anymore. Two years ago I bought a CM7400. I performed the channel scan. It found my analog channels (I think) and 100+ digital channels. I then went to check the video and the channel list was 100% scrambled disabled channels. None of my clear QAM was found. In the channel list I manually enabled the first channel indicated as digital. I then checked and it was my first clear QAM channel. I did a few more and it was the same story. What the CM7400 said was a scrambled 50.1 was really my first clear QAM channel 26.1. So I boxed it back up and sent it back. Total time of ownership was 20 hours. When I want to experiment, I buy from Walmart or Amazon. They have really good return policies.

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post #73 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 06:40 PM
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MediasonicEast I registered for your forum and never got the email . Is this normal or haven't I waited long enough its been over an hour .
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post #74 of 1477 Old 08-02-2013, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wallydog View Post

MediasonicEast I registered for your forum and never got the email ..
That forum is run with a pretty heavy hand.
The Admin deleted one of my posts that pointed out a better solution than the advice of the Admin.
YMMV

Regards
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post #75 of 1477 Old 08-03-2013, 04:55 AM
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but you really only need to set all the channels once and don't have to do it again
Not correct;
1. After every firmware update, the process has to be repeated,
2. If you have a number of stations that you aren't interested in, why waste time waiting for a scan and then go through the process to skip them, doing a manual channel add add solves that,
3. The huge problem with QAM channels is, most of the encrypted ones do not get skipped, forcing you to do it manually.

.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #76 of 1477 Old 08-03-2013, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post


Not correct;
1. After every firmware update, the process has to be repeated,
2. If you have a number of stations that you aren't interested in, why waste time waiting for a scan and then go through the process to skip them, doing a manual channel add add solves that,
3. The huge problem with QAM channels is, most of the unencrypted ones do not get skipped, forcing you to do it manually.

Did you mean encrypted ones?

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post #77 of 1477 Old 08-03-2013, 05:33 AM
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Corrected. redface.gif

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #78 of 1477 Old 08-03-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Does your cable company insist on charging extra for HD? Is that why they broadcast SD duplicates of everything? (Of course, that would be rather pointless unless the HD versions were blocked to non-HD subscribers, either via encryption or with an RF filter at the junction box.)

Here in Minneapolis they have to have the SD duplicates. I'll try to explain it
-Lifeline is 2-23 + some extras...Basically locals (and subchannels), public access/shopping/religious and we get WGN, TBS & CNN in lifeline. This is unencrypted QAM
-everything above 24 is scrambled

You need a box regardless of package (unless you do the QAM technique for lifeline). Box options
-a DTA....think of this as a OTA converter box but no guide. Its SD only
-a standard box. Its included in all packages and is SD only. Has guide in it
-HD receiver....costs $10 a month for the "receiver" but basically its a HD fee
-HD DVR...they're like $19 a month now

total channels in QAM
-56 channels total (including 10 duplicate HD channels in SD)
-14 HD (10 locals, QVC, HSN, WGN, TBS)
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post #79 of 1477 Old 08-04-2013, 11:29 AM
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post #80 of 1477 Old 08-04-2013, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wallydog View Post

MediasonicEast I registered for your forum and never got the email . Is this normal or haven't I waited long enough its been over an hour .

Please check if is in your spam email? or did you enter the email correctly?
cause we get email about emails not deliverable or blocked
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post #81 of 1477 Old 08-04-2013, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blue_z View Post

That forum is run with a pretty heavy hand.
The Admin deleted one of my posts that pointed out a better solution than the advice of the Admin.
YMMV

Regards

Some of your replies are good and thanks for the informative posts
but one where the guy ask if he can watch connected to hdmi of his tv
you went to suggest him no, is better split the signal and stuff.
you just confusing the guy. When he only wanted to know if he can use HDMI
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post #82 of 1477 Old 08-04-2013, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MediasonicEast View Post

you just confusing the guy.
That is not a fact, but merely an assumption on your part.
The Admin didn't even let the OP (or anyone else) read/review/comment on what you seem to claim is "too much information", which was a configuration that ensured the ability to record one channel and watch another channel at the same time.

There's no warning in the Terms of Use that better-than-obvious answers are unacceptable and subject to purging.
You've provided a reason to not contribute to that forum, as I have no guidelines as to when I'll run afoul of the unstated "too much information" rule.

Thank you for confirming my assertion that "that forum is run with a pretty heavy hand".

Regards
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post #83 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 04:27 AM
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that forum is run with a pretty heavy hand
Sounds like two other forums that I know. rolleyes.gif

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #84 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by blue_z View Post


That is not a fact, but merely an assumption on your part.
The Admin didn't even let the OP (or anyone else) read/review/comment on what you seem to claim is "too much information", which was a configuration that ensured the ability to record one channel and watch another channel at the same time.

There's no warning in the Terms of Use that better-than-obvious answers are unacceptable and subject to purging.
You've provided a reason to not contribute to that forum, as I have no guidelines as to when I'll run afoul of the unstated "too much information" rule.

Thank you for confirming my assertion that "that forum is run with a pretty heavy hand".

Regards

I was going to help a poster do some troubleshooting on a strange channel selection question, but since the HW Admin responded I was afraid I might get too technical. I feel when you buy a product and it doesn't work like a product you own, an explanation should be provided.

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post #85 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_z View Post

That is not a fact, but merely an assumption on your part.
The Admin didn't even let the OP (or anyone else) read/review/comment on what you seem to claim is "too much information", which was a configuration that ensured the ability to record one channel and watch another channel at the same time.

There's no warning in the Terms of Use that better-than-obvious answers are unacceptable and subject to purging.
You've provided a reason to not contribute to that forum, as I have no guidelines as to when I'll run afoul of the unstated "too much information" rule.

Thank you for confirming my assertion that "that forum is run with a pretty heavy hand".

Regards

sorry but we want to keep it simple. If the customer ask if he can view thru HDMI or not, we go straight to the point and answer yes or no
telling him to split the signal so he can watch and record another channel, is not what he asked.

you can always start a new post and share info
like did you know you could split signal and do this and that,
then we won't mind
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post #86 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediasonicEast View Post

sorry but we want to keep it simple. If the customer ask if he can ..., we go straight to the point and answer yes or no.
telling him to ... is not what he asked
Then why don't you follow your own "rules" instead of being hypocritical:


> Re: hook up external bookshelf speakers
> Postby Admin_Mediasonic » August 5th, 2013, 1:51 am
>
>> ricefedkk wrote:Will the audio work if I hook up my bookshelf speakers to the back of the unit red and white RCA Audio jacks?
>
> Does your TV have audio out? if so you could hook to PVR by HDMI, then your bookshelf speak to the TV out RCA Audio


That post by Admin_Mediasonic goes beyond answering the original question in a yes/no manner, and offers an alternate configuration that (he didn't ask about and) could confuse (gasp!) the OP.
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post #87 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue_z View Post


Then why don't you follow your own "rules" instead of being hypocritical:


> Re: hook up external bookshelf speakers
> Postby Admin_Mediasonic » August 5th, 2013, 1:51 am
>
>> ricefedkk wrote:Will the audio work if I hook up my bookshelf speakers to the back of the unit red and white RCA Audio jacks?
>
> Does your TV have audio out? if so you could hook to PVR by HDMI, then your bookshelf speak to the TV out RCA Audio


That post by Admin_Mediasonic goes beyond answering the original question in a yes/no manner, and offers an alternate configuration that (he didn't ask about and) could confuse (gasp!) the OP.

That's kinda wierd. But I've seen worse. Anyhow, ever see a TV with speaker outputs and not line outputs? There may be one out there. It's a big world.

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post #88 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 05:59 PM
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AVSF is hardly the place to discuss the policies of another forum, but at least use PMs if you can't resist continuing to do so. wink.gif

The Homeworx seems to have already outclassed the iView solely through having superior firmware. If only there was a way to let you watch and record at the same time, the competition might be over.
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post #89 of 1477 Old 08-05-2013, 07:28 PM
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AVSF is hardly the place to discuss the policies of another forum,
That's probably true.
But I publicly posted a message asking why my (previous) post was deleted, and the only "response" I got was a deletion of that post too.
So I was very surprised to get response(s) and explanation from a Mediasonic representative on this site.

Regards
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post #90 of 1477 Old 08-06-2013, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
So I was very surprised to get response(s) and explanation from a Mediasonic representative on this site.
He tried to correct his 'wrong' since it is now made 'public' here. There is another unrelated forum up north that does the same thing by deleting posts that they/he doesn't agree with and it has little to do with their 'rules'. rolleyes.gif

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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