TiVo Roamio: Records up to 6 shows simultaneously, 3TB storage, streams. - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1199 Old 11-10-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post

Unfortunately the video on the Tivo was just unacceptable. I guess my next question would be if there is a DVR/PVR that will work perfectly on a plasma television?

The picture quality is the fault of your cable provider, not the TiVo. The best video comes from OTA, as broadcast stations usually dedicate more bandwidth to their HD streams than cable companies do. Cable companies try to squeeze as many channels as they can into their available bandwidth, and PQ suffers as a result. Buying a different DVR won't change that, and if you're used to Blu-ray quality, you'll always be disappointed by HDTV.
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post #272 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post

I don't know if this is the right forum to post this, but I just bought a Tivo Roamio 3TB edition this weekend. Within minutes of setting it up and getting the Cable card set up, my wife wanted the machine gone! The menu system and the remote control are best of breed. I don't think that I have ever seen a TV menu system that was quite so intuitive.

However one thing kept us from keeping this machine - Image Quality. Even at 1080p the MPEG compression was unbearable. I have a Panasonic VT 65 and it picks up every drop of visual noise. Unfortunately the video on the Tivo was just unacceptable. I guess my next question would be if there is a DVR/PVR that will work perfectly on a plasma television?

I am somewhat disappointed, because I actually love the Tivo and its other attributes. Being able to see video on my iPhone and the Season Pass was truly wonderful. But we just cannot accept the image quality - even on Pass through and so we are returning the device next week.

Look forward to hearing any other views on this.

Set the Tivo to output the native resolution of the channel i.e. 480i, 720p and 1080i. doing so means that your Panny will now be doing the deinterlacing/scaling. If the PQ still looks bad it's not the Tivo's fault. The fault will be that of the TV and/or the cable provider.
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post #273 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 05:28 AM
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Something sounds amiss to me. I have a couple of last generation Pioneer Kuros and both my Roamio and XL4 look fantastic.

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post #274 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 05:56 AM
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Several people in this thread made some helpful suggestions, so I thought I'd post an update. After a fair amount of digging around we discovered that the cable signal is too strong. Tivo suggested having Comcast put an attenuator on my TV signal. A while back I was having problems with my Internet, I suspect they fixed that problem by boosting the signal, and that made the Tivo signal to my Tivo too strong. My signal strength was at 100%, which Tivo says is misleading - it could be 200% and the diagnostics would report it is at 100%. Ideally, one would have a signal strength of 99%. Tivo also says the SNR should be no more than 35 DB, and I was at 40.

Signal strength can be very misleading. The SNL is better. I just moved from one cable feed that showed 98% and 37db. Now I have 88% and 35%. I also can verify these numbers with other devices. There is a variable attenuator pretty cheap, but let Comcast fix what they broke.

BTW, both of my old series 4 use a Radio Shack 1 to 4 splitter.

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post #275 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post


However one thing kept us from keeping this machine - Image Quality. Even at 1080p the MPEG compression was unbearable. I have a Panasonic VT 65 and it picks up every drop of visual noise. Unfortunately the video on the Tivo was just unacceptable. I guess my next question would be if there is a DVR/PVR that will work perfectly on a plasma television?
It's not the TiVo. I have a Roamio hooked to a Panasonic P65VT60 plasma -- OTA signal and HDMI set to auto. The PQ is just wonderful. Are you sure you are tuned to the HD channels on your cable? Also check the settings on the plasma. I found the out-of-box standard settings to not be to my liking.

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post #276 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post

I don't know if this is the right forum to post this, but I just bought a Tivo Roamio 3TB edition this weekend. Within minutes of setting it up and getting the Cable card set up, my wife wanted the machine gone! The menu system and the remote control are best of breed. I don't think that I have ever seen a TV menu system that was quite so intuitive.

However one thing kept us from keeping this machine - Image Quality. Even at 1080p the MPEG compression was unbearable. I have a Panasonic VT 65 and it picks up every drop of visual noise. Unfortunately the video on the Tivo was just unacceptable. I guess my next question would be if there is a DVR/PVR that will work perfectly on a plasma television?

I am somewhat disappointed, because I actually love the Tivo and its other attributes. Being able to see video on my iPhone and the Season Pass was truly wonderful. But we just cannot accept the image quality - even on Pass through and so we are returning the device next week.

Look forward to hearing any other views on this.


Set to native output the Tivo does nothing to the incoming signal, it only stores and outputs it in the same format and quality as the original signal. Try native but my guess is your just seeing the result of cable companies trying to cram too many channels into too little space. Any HD DVR will be the same with your signal, all HD DVR basically record the transport stream as is and output that. The only exception would be if they output to a fixed resolution, in that case the DVR will be doing a bit of scaling which could introduce some picture quality loss.

If you have another DVR or STB to compare the Tivo to and it looks much better then I suppose it's possible you got a bad Tivo in which case I'd try exchanging it for another under warranty.

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post #277 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post

I don't know if this is the right forum to post this, but I just bought a Tivo Roamio 3TB edition this weekend. Within minutes of setting it up and getting the Cable card set up, my wife wanted the machine gone! The menu system and the remote control are best of breed. I don't think that I have ever seen a TV menu system that was quite so intuitive.

However one thing kept us from keeping this machine - Image Quality. Even at 1080p the MPEG compression was unbearable. I have a Panasonic VT 65 and it picks up every drop of visual noise. Unfortunately the video on the Tivo was just unacceptable. I guess my next question would be if there is a DVR/PVR that will work perfectly on a plasma television?

I am somewhat disappointed, because I actually love the Tivo and its other attributes. Being able to see video on my iPhone and the Season Pass was truly wonderful. But we just cannot accept the image quality - even on Pass through and so we are returning the device next week.

Look forward to hearing any other views on this.

The MPEG compression is from your provider, not from the TiVo. The TiVo displays what it is sent. It is not creating the issue. It is only showing what is there. This is not the fault of the TiVo but the fault of whomever is providing the services that the TiVo is displaying.

For instance I have FiOS and my brother and parents have Comast. in my area there is a night and day difference between the two. But the DVR is not causing the bad picture quality, it is Comcast by over compressing most channels in the area.

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post #278 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 06:45 AM
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It looks great on my VT50. I use Native out and Panel mode.

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post #279 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post

However one thing kept us from keeping this machine - Image Quality. Even at 1080p the MPEG compression was unbearable. I have a Panasonic VT 65 and it picks up every drop of visual noise. Unfortunately the video on the Tivo was just unacceptable. I guess my next question would be if there is a DVR/PVR that will work perfectly on a plasma television?
I agree with others ... it isn't the Tivo. I've had other DVRs and the Tivo looks as good or better than they did. I've got a projector with a 100" screen and a small LCD TV and have never seen what I would call "MPEG compression" from a Tivo. 720p channels look softer than 1080i channels, and 480i channels look decidedly fuzzy and soft, but everything is definitely watchable. 1080i Football games look fantastic - for example, I can see the metallic paint job on Patriot's helmets.

While you're checking things out, also look at the SNR ratio (its on the DVR Diagnostic screen, I think under Setting->Troubleshooting). I just became aware that this can cause problems if it is too high. It seems cable companies have juiced up the signal for better Internet speeds, but this can mess up TV reception.
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post #280 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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I agree with others ... it isn't the Tivo. I've had other DVRs and the Tivo looks as good or better than they did. I've got a projector with a 100" screen and a small LCD TV and have never seen what I would call "MPEG compression" from a Tivo. 720p channels look softer than 1080i channels, and 480i channels look decidedly fuzzy and soft, but everything is definitely watchable. 1080i Football games look fantastic - for example, I can see the metallic paint job on Patriot's helmets.

While you're checking things out, also look at the SNR ratio (its on the DVR Diagnostic screen, I think under Setting->Troubleshooting). I just became aware that this can cause problems if it is too high. It seems cable companies have juiced up the signal for better Internet speeds, but this can mess up TV reception.

I would be happy with a 50db SNR, A TiVo might have a problem if the signal is too high (as do other digital tuners) but it shouldn't care if the noise level is very low.

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post #281 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 01:09 PM
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Joe - You're right, I should have mentioned signal strength more directly. Tivo recommends a signal strength of not over 98% and a SNR of not over 35.
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post #282 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 01:43 PM
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Thanks for the response everyone. However I probably should have written this earlier yesterday morning. Last night my wife took one look at the picture and it was disconnect city. I just cancelled my Tivo account. I did not look at the signal ratios to see if that was a problem, but the cable box connected back to the SC-67 is literally perfect. I would venture to say that I really liked the Tivo and all of the gadgets that came with it and I am really going to miss it.

We may purchase a less expensive version than the Roamio Pro and hook it up to another TV directly. Thanks everyone for the feedback.
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post #283 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
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Joe - You're right, I should have mentioned signal strength more directly. Tivo recommends a signal strength of not over 98% and a SNR of not over 35.

Do these numbers equally apply to OTA?

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post #284 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 03:14 PM
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Joe - You're right, I should have mentioned signal strength more directly. Tivo recommends a signal strength of not over 98% and a SNR of not over 35.

I'd bet the TiVo person can't spell SNR. It's the signal level divided by noise level. There's no limit to the value. With little noise and a good cable signal it could be a large number yet work just fine. It's when the signal level is too high that some tuners have problems. It was more important with analog, but a digital signal can be very good with a low level - until it gets too low.

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post #285 of 1199 Old 11-11-2013, 03:29 PM
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JimP-
Based on my little knowledge, you want to see a signal strength less than 100% - cable or OTA. It almost sounds like a bug in their Diagnostic reporting. You see 100% strength and think "Oh! Good.", but their software doesn't know how to report more than 100%. So the signal strength could be way over 100% and too strong.
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post #286 of 1199 Old 11-12-2013, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSNoobie View Post

Thanks for the response everyone. However I probably should have written this earlier yesterday morning. Last night my wife took one look at the picture and it was disconnect city. I just cancelled my Tivo account. I did not look at the signal ratios to see if that was a problem, but the cable box connected back to the SC-67 is literally perfect. I would venture to say that I really liked the Tivo and all of the gadgets that came with it and I am really going to miss it.

We may purchase a less expensive version than the Roamio Pro and hook it up to another TV directly. Thanks everyone for the feedback.


Now you have introduced another variable. If you are running it through your AVR what do you have the video parameters set at in the AVR? You have 3 devices that have video settings.


Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #287 of 1199 Old 11-12-2013, 07:14 PM
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Thanks for writing. I had it on Pass thru, letting the TV do the settings only.
The only time I've let the AVR do anything is with my Boxee Box since it is flat on 1080p.
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post #288 of 1199 Old 11-12-2013, 09:01 PM
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What do you mean by flat on 1080P? The Boxee Box is fine with 1080P output.

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post #289 of 1199 Old 11-13-2013, 01:16 PM
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To each his own. Compared to my Apple TV and native Netflix on the Panny, the Boxee appears flat.
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post #290 of 1199 Old 11-13-2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
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To each his own. Compared to my Apple TV and native Netflix on the Panny, the Boxee appears flat.

If you haven't calibrated the display for the specific device then that could be the problem. Since each device can be different.

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post #291 of 1199 Old 11-13-2013, 02:40 PM
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I think you're right about that. After I discontinued the Tivo, I had to recalibrate the image going into the AVS from the Cable box. I wish there was an automatic way to do this.

As an aside, I actually miss the Tivo (24 hours of use only) and I am seriously considering obtaining a regular Roamio this weekend and either giving it another try or setting it up on another TV.
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post #292 of 1199 Old 11-13-2013, 03:26 PM
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Just looking for some opinions here and then some -

I have a TiVo 3 which in general has worked reasonably well for me (though TWC is a pain with interruptions of service, channels sometimes dropping off and macro blocking here and there). My TiVo has lifetime service and recently TiVo has had its campaign to sell the Roamios to present owners along with a somewhat discount if purchased with lifetime service.

1) Is it possible to transfer ownership of my present TiVo 3 with lifetime to another family member or friend and what would I need to do with making it official with TiVo?

2) While the Roamios all have nice bells and whistles compared to my present system, I was curious about the chipsets used and if they are significantly better at recording and playback or no difference? I know that from time to time various makers of playback units (including blu ray) will upgrade their chipset with newer models.

3) In your opinion, beyond 4 or 6 channels recording, which one do you feel is the best bang for the buck? If I do break down and make a purchase, it will need to last me 4-6 years at least.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can give me some info or logical opinions on the matter. Beyond the TiVo offer, I find it frustrating to keep running into the same ol' issue of clipping of shows that overlap etc. The 4 or 6 recording would really help stop that problem and that is what prompted my interest.

Thanks in advance to any and all
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post #293 of 1199 Old 11-13-2013, 04:18 PM
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I was curious about the chipsets used and if they are significantly better at recording and playback or no difference?

The TiVo can only record the signal it's fed, so whether you have a series 3, 4, or 5 doesn't influence the picture quality. TWC is responsible for that, in your case.
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post #294 of 1199 Old 11-13-2013, 04:26 PM
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The TiVo can only record the signal it's fed, so whether you have a series 3, 4, or 5 doesn't influence the picture quality. TWC is responsible for that, in your case.

I totally agree and understand however - my point about chipset is more about playback. There are various devices that can playback media data and use different chipsets with different results. I was curious if the Roamios have a significantly different chipset(s) than the TiVo 3.

As example - a company that produces the Dune media players uses Sigma chipsets that are well known for their flexibility and excellent output/playback of files while we can see that there are other chipset makers that can surpass or fall behind the Sigma's latest chipset offerings. I am guessing the Roamio plays as well or perhaps better but was curious if anyone knew what changed in the 'guts' of the box.
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post #295 of 1199 Old 11-14-2013, 08:19 AM
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It has a different output chipset I'm sure, but going from S3 to Elite on my Panny plasma I saw no difference, and from what I can see no one has complained about video output quality for the Roamios.

To answer your other question about your S3, yes you can transfer it to another family member. You can either leave it on your account or have them set up an account on tivo.com and then call Tivo with the TSN to get it on their account (for online scheduling mainly, if they're interested in that).

The Roamio Plus is the best bang for buck right now IMO (unless you need OTA, then you have to get a Basic) - abt.com is offering them for $339 shipped if you do a chat with them online and mention that you saw this offer made to others. Of course you have to add $400 for lifetime on top of that, so it's not cheap. aaronwt apparently knows about some secret offer to get one from Tivo for $600 all-in, but he's not sharing who did it or how.
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post #296 of 1199 Old 11-15-2013, 08:39 PM
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I have found that I cannot live without the Tivo. I am going to get a less expensive version (I had the Pro for 48 hours) and hook it up to another TV. I cannot believe what I have been missing in a Menu all of these years. I absolutely hate waking up at 4 am to watch soccer matches from England. The way that this device is so intuitive has made me wonder why in the heck I didn't do this in the first place? For instance, I placed the timer last week to record the Arsenal-ManU game and within an hour, the top screen showed the next Arsenal and ManU games coming up over the next 2 weeks. It even asked if I wanted a season pass to the Premier League or MLS. I don't think that I can get anything close to this on a HTPC device.

Additionally, this forum shows that the device is well supported and I would consider changing out the hard drive some time in the future. Great thread.
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post #297 of 1199 Old 11-16-2013, 03:09 PM
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I have found that I cannot live without the Tivo..

I think if you ask you'll find most Tivo owners feel the same way, the vast majority of the Tivo haters have never nor will ever own a Tivo :rolleyes: oh well, their loss :p 

Oh and good idea about upsizing the HDD yourself, I did that to my HD day one(OK week one, along with PLS(product lifetime service)) and haven't looked back.

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post #298 of 1199 Old 11-16-2013, 03:18 PM
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I have found that I cannot live without the Tivo.
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I think if you ask you'll find most Tivo owners feel the same way, the vast majority of the Tivo haters have never nor will ever own a Tivo rolleyes.gif oh well, their loss tongue.gif

After having a TiVo HD for 5 yr, I upgraded to a Roamio to get the 4 tuners. Now I can't imagine living with less than a 4-tuner DVR and no conflicts.

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post #299 of 1199 Old 11-17-2013, 12:25 PM
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The thing with Tivo until this recent hardware upgrade is the fact that they've always skimped on the specs (namely the storage size and the number of tuners) but not any more. I still wish that my base tivo roamio with PLS had a larger hard drive and the two additional tuners like the others. Apart from that I'm quite impressed with nary a single thing that I've yet to find fault with. In fact the scaling done by my roamio is far superior to my HDTV (last year's Panasonic 65ST50) and probably every other cable/ satellite dvr out there.


For someone who's not comfortable with doing his own storage hard drive upgrade for fear of bricking it- Is there a service you guys recommend that I go with?
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post #300 of 1199 Old 11-17-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

For someone who's not comfortable with doing his own storage hard drive upgrade for fear of bricking it- Is there a service you guys recommend that I go with?

all you do with the roamios is swap the drive with a new one (3tb or less). the roamio will now rebuild a new drive out of the box. no need to use third party drives to clone or image drives, they made it simple. if you can swap a drive in a computer, you can do it on a roamio. go the tivo community forum and take a look at the hard drive thread. its simple.


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