TiVo Roamio: Records up to 6 shows simultaneously, 3TB storage, streams. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 797 Old 01-20-2014, 08:16 PM
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When you enter your zip, the TiVo will have all the Channels that it thinks are available. The channel scan looks for those channels and anything else it finds. There is a channels list that you can use and checkmark you want or don't, even for channels it didn't find during the scan. For channels that you receive but is not its list, they will have an asterisk and will not have any program info in the EPG.
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post #452 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 07:05 AM
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I understand everything you're saying. Sorry for being pedantic, but I'd like to have someone say whether there is a function to add channels to the initial scan, either an add channel scan or manually add channels. Without a way to add channels it is possible to end up with a channel that doesn't get scanned and is not in the zip code based list. If no one knows this then I'll have to call them.
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post #453 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I understand everything you're saying. Sorry for being pedantic, but I'd like to have someone say whether there is a function to add channels to the initial scan, either an add channel scan or manually add channels. Without a way to add channels it is possible to end up with a channel that doesn't get scanned and is not in the zip code based list. If no one knows this then I'll have to call them.

no there isnt, there is only one scan. once it finishes the full scan of the spectrum you are then taken to a screen to add or remove the channels that the guided setup and the scan think you can receive.

if you point your antenna to a different market, you will have to perform another full scan. there is no way to add one or two channels that were not picked up from the previous scan from the previous antenna location.

Tivo is not antenna rotation friendly.

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post #454 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 07:15 AM
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That is why you need to use a zipcode that encompasses all the channels you can receive. If the channel is not there in a certain zipcode, then there is no way to get guide data.

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post #455 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 07:25 AM
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That is why you need to use a zipcode that encompasses all the channels you can receive. If the channel is not there in a certain zipcode, then there is no way to get guide data.
Yes, but even so a scan will be performed and during that scan the antenna is in a single location. Channels that are listed in the guide will be removed from the guide if the scan shows they are not present because the antenna must be rotated to get them.

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post #456 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Yes, but even so a scan will be performed and during that scan the antenna is in a single location. Channels that are listed in the guide will be removed from the guide if the scan shows they are not present because the antenna must be rotated to get them.

If it automatically removes any channel from the guide that didn't show up in the scan then I can't use the Roamio. It's extremely common to have stations from more than one transmitter site even in the same market. I see it in TVFool reports all the time from people asking for help selecting antennas. It's very common for people using indoor antennas to have to reposition their antenna for different channels from the same transmitter site. It doesn't make any sense why they would write their firmware so you can only record stations from one site.
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post #457 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

It doesn't make any sense why they would write their firmware so you can only record stations from one site.
Because their bread-n-butter is cable which has none of these issues. OTA is a minor market for them. That should be clear from the release of the Premier Elite which offered 4 tuners for cable only and now the Roamio which only offers OTA on the Basic model and eliminated the dual OTA/cable Rf inputs.

You might want to take a look at the Channel Master CM-7500 (DVR+). It is specifically designed for OTA and may have the channel adding capabilities you are after.

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post #458 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

You might want to take a look at the Channel Master CM-7500 (DVR+). It is specifically designed for OTA and may have the channel adding capabilities you are after.

Somehow I missed this. I was only aware of the CM-7400 which didn't seem all that great.

It'll take me awhile to wade through 49 pages. smile.gif

Thanks!
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post #459 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Yes, but even so a scan will be performed and during that scan the antenna is in a single location. Channels that are listed in the guide will be removed from the guide if the scan shows they are not present because the antenna must be rotated to get them.

True, but you simply can go back into the channel list and add those channels back in...they are still in the database. When you enter your zip for the database of channels the Tivo already knows the true frequency of the channels, in some respects the channel scan is superfluous. In the case of moving an antenna around when you tune to the channel you would get a "no signal" screen until it picks up the signal, it doesn't remove the channel from the database just because the channel scan didn't initally pick it up.
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post #460 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles O View Post

True, but you simply can go back into the channel list and add those channels back in...they are still in the database. When you enter your zip for the database of channels the Tivo already knows the true frequency of the channels, in some respects the channel scan is superfluous. In the case of moving an antenna around when you tune to the channel you would get a "no signal" screen until it picks up the signal, it doesn't remove the channel from the database just because the channel scan didn't initally pick it up.

Thanks for the clarification. As long as there's some way to record a channel that didn't initially scan in that would be good enough.
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post #461 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 02:37 PM
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Depending on how much antenna adjustment you require to receive different stations, there's always the gimmicky method of moving the antenna while the scan is underway so that you can detect every channel. This requires you to know the RF number of the problematic stations, though, so you know when to move the antenna. It's only really practical for an indoor antenna, of course. An antenna on a rotor would probably be too slow, unless there's some magic orientation you can temporarily use which lets you detect every channel for the purposes of the scan, even if they're too weak to record.
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post #462 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

This sounds like it'll only work with stations in your market. I receive a lot of out-of-market stations and it's nice to be able to at least have the option to record those.

Does anyone know how they handle out-of-market stations?

The guide service for the TiVo is handled by Tribune Media Services which also owns Zap2It website. Here is a form you can fill out so Tribune can add the additional channels to your zip code.
http://www.zap2it.com/services/site/help/zap-faq-contact-channel,0,5059403.htmlstory

If they add the out of market channels you then can uncheck the channels you do not want in the channel list. Make sure you include any low power stations you can receive at your location. If you also receive cable you can have them update the channel lineup for your cable provider. I just copy and paste the web address of my cable lineup from my cable providers web site, which is usually a PDF document. I will take about 1 to 3 days for the changes to take place. You will see the change on Zap2It first and then when your TiVo connects to the service to update the guide it also updates the channel list.

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post #463 of 797 Old 01-21-2014, 10:45 PM
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While I don't have a Roamio, I can tell you how my TiVo HD works.

The Zip Code provides a list of all the channels that might be received in that Zip Code.

The Channel Scan does not delete any of these channels that are not found in the scan. It does add any channels found that are not in the Zip Code list.

The user can then go thru the channel list and mark Channels that are actually received and designate Favorites.

Channel up/down on the remote skips any channels not marked as received.

I would imagine that the Roamio works in the same way.

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post #464 of 797 Old 01-22-2014, 07:19 AM
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That makes some sense but I thought of something else.

If the zip code list shows a station that did not scan in and then I move the antenna to that station and can now receive it, can I tune to that station or can I only record it?
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post #465 of 797 Old 01-22-2014, 10:02 AM
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^^
Yes you can tune to that station.

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post #466 of 797 Old 01-22-2014, 04:53 PM
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Tivo Exits the Hardware Business

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post #467 of 797 Old 01-22-2014, 05:28 PM
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^^^
And so ends future TiVo support for broadcast OTA. I guess they are not buying into the masses of cord cutters everyone keeps predicting.
Glad I already have a Roamio. Looks like next stop will be a HTPC for an OTA DVR.

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post #468 of 797 Old 01-22-2014, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
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^^^
And so ends future TiVo support for broadcast OTA. I guess they are not buying into the masses of cord cutters everyone keeps predicting.
Glad I already have a Roamio. Looks like next stop will be a HTPC for an OTA DVR.

I guess it doesn't mean another manufacturer can't step in to make devices that use TiVo software. In the early 2000's other manufactures made TiVo boxes for DirecTV. But at least since the Roamio design just came out last year, it should be sold for several more years. There just won't be any more TiVo made hardware after that.

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post #469 of 797 Old 01-22-2014, 07:53 PM
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I guess it doesn't mean another manufacturer can't step in to make devices that use TiVo software. In the early 2000's other manufactures made TiVo boxes for DirecTV. But at least since the Roamio design just came out last year, it should be sold for several more years. There just won't be any more TiVo made hardware after that.

I read on wired that Tivo will use 3rd party vendors for hardware

Dude seriously!
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post #470 of 797 Old 01-23-2014, 04:44 AM
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Dang, and right after they make a great box like the Roamio.

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post #471 of 797 Old 01-23-2014, 05:03 AM
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Denials and clarifications . . .

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post #472 of 797 Old 01-23-2014, 01:51 PM
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Darn.

Please help me, a professed noob to AV.

I JUST got a mint open box Roamio Plus from fleabay, and with my fleabay bucks, I paid about $250 for it.

I didnt even get to open the box yet, and now this.

Currently, nothing in my setup is "smart", so I had settled on this for that use, plus the streaming.

But do I return this now? Or, keep it as no other models will be produced by Tivo?

Lifetime activate in case they drop that or raise the price to discourage, or take it month by month to see what happens?

Thanks


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post #473 of 797 Old 01-23-2014, 02:34 PM
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There is no reason to doubt that TiVo will continue providing the guide service for the forseeable future, so you might as well buy the lifetime guide. Your current hardware will probably fail before TiVo stops selling its services, as that appears to be the company's new business model.
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post #474 of 797 Old 01-23-2014, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
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There is no reason to doubt that TiVo will continue providing the guide service for the forseeable future, so you might as well buy the lifetime guide. Your current hardware will probably fail before TiVo stops selling its services, as that appears to be the company's new business model.

I think that making any inferences about TiVo's long term strategy based on the lay off of five "hardware engineers" is, at best, premature.

The release of the Series 5, Roamio, Models signaled that TiVo was upping the ante hardware wise and understood some of the parameters of what it will take to compete in a market that has the "cable" providers offering what they call Whole House Systems. It will be interesting to see if the demand for over the air (OTA) drives TiVo to offer a six tuner OTA model or models that support OTA and Cable concurrently. I know that OTA demand surprised Magnolia. Initially the basic Roamio model was not being offered in the Magnolia Design Centers inside Best Buy Stores. Now it is available.

Obviously, the settlement and winding down of patent litigation forces TiVo to rely on their product and service offerings to remain profitable. Given TiVo's fairly long product cycle it would seem to make sense to concentrate on internal software development and outsource much of the hardware design function.

Historically, TiVo has never been close to break even on the hardware side of their business. All of the profits have come from patent litigation, licensing and services such as Monthly and Lifetime subscriptions.

The keys to TiVo's kingdom are its software and user interface. Included in that user Interface is, perhaps, the absolute best Remote ever designed. It's shape and button layout are superior to anything on the market in MHO as well as the opinion of many others. Now with the Roamio offering RF communication with its remote , the best has gotten even better.

I was initially alarmed by the first post in this forum based on Wired's speculation. After reading TiVo's response and thinking a bit, I am no longer alarmed or worried.

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post #475 of 797 Old 01-24-2014, 06:03 AM
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My opinion:

A hallmark of TiVo has been the solidly built boxes they sold that are built to run 24x7 for years and years. The most likely thing to break in a TiVo is the HDD which is user replaceable. To a much lesser extent the power supply could go. Roamio Basic's external PS makes that an easy fix. It is not unusual to hear people talk about their 5yr plus TiVo's still giving good service and their expectation that they would run for at least another 4-5-6 yr. I'm sure that longevity is a major factor people consider when they contemplate plunking down $600+ for a TiVo+lifetime. Few people are going to pay that kind of price for a box designed as chinese throw-away electronics with a 3 yr max lifetime -- if you are lucky. People with cable are looking to buy a box that will not only last long enough to break even with cable DVR rental fees, but exceed that point for years to come. TiVo has that solid hardware reputation and if their executives don't recognize that is a major part of their business success, then they are just plain stupid.

If TiVo goes down the hardware out-sourcing road they need to recognize that as good as their software is, it is the expected longevity of their system that makes their asking price palatable. If they turn over design and manufacture to a low-cost bottom feeder like funai or some chinese no-name and start supplying junk-electronics boxes, they'll be done quickly.
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post #476 of 797 Old 01-24-2014, 07:13 AM
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For the reasons Kelson stated above I ordered the Roamio Basic and expect to get it today. I'll report on the multipath handling of the tuners since I can readily do that. I'm going to try the idea of one zip code that produces stations from 3 markets and see how that goes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

My opinion:

A hallmark of TiVo has been the solidly built boxes they sold that are built to run 24x7 for years and years. The most likely thing to break in a TiVo is the HDD which is user replaceable. To a much lesser extent the power supply could go. Roamio Basic's external PS makes that an easy fix. It is not unusual to hear people talk about their 5yr plus TiVo's still giving good service and their expectation that they would run for at least another 4-5-6 yr. I'm sure that longevity is a major factor people consider when they contemplate plunking down $600+ for a TiVo+lifetime. Few people are going to pay that kind of price for a box designed as chinese throw-away electronics with a 3 yr max lifetime -- if you are lucky. People with cable are looking to buy a box that will not only last long enough to break even with cable DVR rental fees, but exceed that point for years to come. TiVo has that solid hardware reputation and if their executives don't recognize that is a major part of their business success, then they are just plain stupid.

If TiVo goes down the hardware out-sourcing road they need to recognize that as good as their software is, it is the expected longevity of their system that makes their asking price palatable. If they turn over design and manufacture to a low-cost bottom feeder like funai or some chinese no-name and start supplying junk-electronics boxes, they'll be done quickly.

In the early 2000's TiVos were made by multiple manufacturers. I had several of the DirecTV Tivos. And they worked for over ten yeras between me and the the people I gave them too. The ymight even still be using them. I haven't asked about the boxes in a while though.

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post #478 of 797 Old 01-24-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

For the reasons Kelson stated above I ordered the Roamio Basic and expect to get it today. I'll report on the multipath handling of the tuners since I can readily do that. I'm going to try the idea of one zip code that produces stations from 3 markets and see how that goes.


I can't say why there is a difference but my Tivo Romeo basic has better OTA reception than my Tivo S3 did. It may be multipath or maybe something else.

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post #479 of 797 Old 01-25-2014, 10:01 AM
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TiVo Roamio - Early Observations

I've had it for less than 1 day but I've had some interesting experiences already with it.

I bought it from Amazon and I fell victim to the Amazon policy of selling returned items as new. When I opened the box I found the DVR was not wrapped properly. I thought that was strange but otherwise everything looked fine and original. When I first turned it on a menu screen came up saying I needed to activate service. There was nothing about setting up the WiFi. There was no sign of any guided setup. I activated my service.

I was stumped for quite awhile until I stumbled upon the network setup and was finally able to get WiFi going. I'm considering wired ethernet even though that requires crawling under the house…. no fun. Still no sign of any guided setup.

I did a power recycle and now it took me to the guided setup. When I went through that I found a Los Angeles zip code pre-entered and the guide was populated with Los Angeles channels. The I found that someone had written the box S/N and the name they chose for the DVR on the quick start sheet. That's when I realized this was a previously owned box.

I'm betting this is an Amazon issue and not a TiVo issue.

Due to my fringe area location I did find that using the Mt. Hamilton zip code was the best choice. When I used my own zip code the guide included stations from Reno, NV which no one receives here.

One thing I did find out right away is that there is an add channel scan. It just isn't called that. After I did the initial antenna channel scan that is part of the guided setup, I found another channel scan under Settings: Channels. There's a choice to either erase previously scanned channels or add channels. This allowed me to move the antenna and scan in channels from other directions so the box knew I could receive those. It appears that this channel scan scans for both antenna and cable channels as it never finds any channels above 50% complete.

I was able to determine right away that the tuners have identical multipath performance to the tuners in my DTVPal DVR and Sony TV. They seem to be latest generation tuners whatever that is these days.

I've had some problems downloading the program guide. In the guided setup the first time it accesses the internet to get your setup information there is never a problem. After the antenna channel scan the guide is supposed to download. Sometimes it hangs up at the start under "Preparing…." and never does anything. The only solution is to power cycle and do it all over. I don't know what that issue is.

I have not been able to figure out how to just enter a channel number and have it tune there. It's possible to enter some numbers and the box tunes to the station but many times it says it "Can't Tune to the Station." The only way I can get to the station is to select it from the guide. I hope I'm doing something wrong as it seems being able to enter a channel number is a pretty basic function.

The Signal Strength meter is actually a Signal Quality meter and it is scaled differently from any other SQ meter I have. This is typical. I was hoping for a little more than that.

This is the most sophisticated DVR I have owned so it's going to take a while to really figure it out.
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post #480 of 797 Old 01-25-2014, 10:17 AM
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Could someone please let me know how the tuner in the OTA Roamio compares/performs to the Pioneer Kuro 9G Tuner (ability to receive distant or weaker stations etc.)?

Thanks
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