TiVo Roamio: Records up to 6 shows simultaneously, 3TB storage, streams. - Page 27 - AVS Forum
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post #781 of 1011 Old 08-14-2014, 11:54 AM
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My daughter and her husband just moved into a house and have FIOS with very limited cable runs around the house. Naturally, they are not where they would like them to be. So daddy is helping them come up with a strategy for doing what they want.

So, question about the Mini. A leading solution will be a TiVo Roamio and a couple Mini's. My understanding is that the mini functions to provide live TV by capturing one of the Roamio tuners. Can someone explain to me how that works with regards to releasing the tuner back to the Roamio when the Mini is not in use? Is there a button on the Mini remote to cause the Mini to power-down or go into standby and release the tuner? Can that be tied to toggle the HDTV power at the same time?

Please don't tell me it captures it permanently.

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post #782 of 1011 Old 08-14-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
OK, so PyTiVo actually transfers like TiVo Desktop instead of streaming like StreamBaby.

With TiVo Desktop I can see my TiVo server displayed at the bottom of the Roamio's playlist. I click on it, it opens the server and displays all the transferred recordings arranged by show. I pick one and can play it within seconds of starting the transfer. So I am pulling from the server.

Does PyTiVo offer the same server-pull functionality? Does it appear in the TiVo playlist so you can open it up and select a server-based recording to play?
I know with me running KMTTG and PyTiVo it does. I can have specific folders from a PC show up at the bottom of My Shows list. Then I can select a title and begin transferring. And then start watching right away. I guess it is all PyTiVo doing that part?

My only complaint is that with Tivo desktop running if I looked at the folder on my PC, the shows would automatically show up in it's own folder when viewing from a TiVo. With my current setup with KMTTG and PyTivo, I have to manually put the shows in folders on the PC for them to show up in folders when viewing from the TiVo.

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post #783 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Does PyTiVo offer the same server-pull functionality? Does it appear in the TiVo playlist so you can open it up and select a server-based recording to play?
Yep, that's exactly how I use it. Also lets you stream mp3s from a separate music folder too.
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post #784 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
So, question about the Mini. A leading solution will be a TiVo Roamio and a couple Mini's. My understanding is that the mini functions to provide live TV by capturing one of the Roamio tuners. Can someone explain to me how that works with regards to releasing the tuner back to the Roamio when the Mini is not in use? Is there a button on the Mini remote to cause the Mini to power-down or go into standby and release the tuner? Can that be tied to toggle the HDTV power at the same time?

Please don't tell me it captures it permanently.
Live TV tuner is dynamically allocated - if you hit the Tivo or left button to go back to main menu it releases the tuner, or if you go 4 hours without pressing a button it does the same (idle timer).

I don't think the Mini releases the tuner when you power down the HDTV it's connected to, if it's still on live TV. You'd think it would since it can tell the HDMI connection is gone, but I don't think it does.
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post #785 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Live TV tuner is dynamically allocated - if you hit the Tivo or left button to go back to main menu it releases the tuner, or if you go 4 hours without pressing a button it does the same (idle timer).

I don't think the Mini releases the tuner when you power down the HDTV it's connected to, if it's still on live TV. You'd think it would since it can tell the HDMI connection is gone, but I don't think it does.
No it doesn't. At least none of my three Minis do.

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post #786 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
No it doesn't. At least none of my three Minis do.
Are you disagreeing with his first paragraph (going to the menu or four hours) or the second (detecting when TV is off), or both?
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post #787 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Live TV tuner is dynamically allocated - if you hit the Tivo or left button to go back to main menu it releases the tuner, or if you go 4 hours without pressing a button it does the same (idle timer).

I don't think the Mini releases the tuner when you power down the HDTV it's connected to, if it's still on live TV. You'd think it would since it can tell the HDMI connection is gone, but I don't think it does.
Thank you, good to know. I can guarantee the HDTV will simply be shut off and leave the mini hanging onto the tuner (I know my daughter) for the 4 hr timeout period.

So let's try this scenario:
4-tuner Roamio, 1 mini
Roamio is recording shows on tuners #1 & #2
Tuner #3 is being watched live at the Roamio
Tuner #4 is captured by the mini (either being watched live or in that 4hr timeout period)

Event:
Roamio wants to start a scheduled 3rd concurrent recording -- so now 3 tuners at the Roamio will be engaged in recording content, leaving 1 "free" tuner.

So what happens:
Does the Roamio take back tuner #4 allocated to the mini for the 3rd recording?
- or-
Does the Roamio try to use tuner #3 for the 3rd recording and make the viewer at the Roamio decide whether or not to accept giving up the tuner for the recording?

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post #788 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MordredKLB View Post
Are you disagreeing with his first paragraph (going to the menu or four hours) or the second (detecting when TV is off), or both?
He's saying that TV power off does not release the tuner, I checked TCF and they say the same. I have 3 Minis but never checked this myself, I never run out with my 6-tuner Plus.
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post #789 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
So let's try this scenario:
4-tuner Roamio, 1 mini
Roamio is recording shows on tuners #1 & #2
Tuner #3 is being watched live at the Roamio
Tuner #4 is captured by the mini (either being watched live or in that 4hr timeout period)

Event:
Roamio wants to start a scheduled 3rd concurrent recording -- so now 3 tuners at the Roamio will be engaged in recording content, leaving 1 "free" tuner.

So what happens:
Does the Roamio take back tuner #4 allocated to the mini for the 3rd recording?
- or-
Does the Roamio try to use tuner #3 for the 3rd recording and make the viewer at the Roamio decide whether or not to accept giving up the tuner for the recording?
Not sure what the priority is, but I know it will ask either the local watcher or the Mini watcher whether it's ok to change channels for the recording. It won't take back the Mini tuner without asking (same as local), in other words.
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post #790 of 1011 Old 08-15-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MordredKLB View Post
Are you disagreeing with his first paragraph (going to the menu or four hours) or the second (detecting when TV is off), or both?
All my Minis will hold on to a tuner after turning a Tv off. Not sure if the time period is still four hours though since I have not timed it in a while.

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post #791 of 1011 Old 08-19-2014, 08:46 AM
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Maybe this worth a new thread start, but I figured that I'd ask here first...

While it's clear that TiVo's LIfetime is tied to the unit, is it true that it is transferrable to a new unit, for a price, maybe 200 bucks? I thought I had read this somewhere... And if true, would this work if the current Lifetime is with a DirecTV account?

Thanks for any input you might have...
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post #792 of 1011 Old 08-19-2014, 05:42 PM
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For those interested, $50 dollars off any Roamio purchase with code: MMA. Seems to only work on the TiVo website...

Looks like $399 for Lifetime is the best deal now...

EDIT / ADD: Amazon has it for 170. Even though it's cheaper direct from TiVo, with the discount code, I just ordered it via Amazon and paid less than 85 dollars delivered. Discover CashBack was $30 off and Amazon gave me a $70 gift card as I applied for an Amazon Rewards Visa card, which I had been eye-balling anyways...

Can one still use TiVo's "trick" features without service?

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post #793 of 1011 Old 08-20-2014, 04:40 AM
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You get a 7-day trial without service, after that you can't record or use the guide. You can watch live TV and what you have recorded already, but no internet apps.

Just pay the $399 and move on, lifetime is not transferable from another unit.
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post #794 of 1011 Old 08-20-2014, 08:42 AM
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You get a 7-day trial without service, after that you can't record or use the guide. You can watch live TV and what you have recorded already, but no internet apps.

Just pay the $399 and move on, lifetime is not transferable from another unit.
Thank you slowbiscuit.

From what I've read, there have been lifetime transfers, albeit for special circumstances, and via apparent special offers. Wasn't sure of anything now, but it looks like $399 is it (a discount compared to $499).

The 7-day trial, I was not aware, so that is good to know. I know I will like TiVo. I've had it before with DirecTV and PrimeStar, which was consumed by DirecTV. Heck, I was employed at TiVo back in the day, in San Jose. I think it was called their Knowledge Department. I don't feel so "knowledgeable" these days though, lol.

I'm in a tough OTA reception area, and the Channel Master's DVR+ tuner didn't cut the mustard as it had me lose a couple valuable borderline channels that I get somewhat well with the TV's tuner. This will be the challenge for the Roamio and it's 4 tuners. Hoping all goes well...

With no service, I can still watch live TV (for me, experiment with OTA reception further), watch previously recorded programs, but lose the internet apps. To be clear, trick TV will still exist, correct? Back in the day, no service still allowed for manual record, think VCR, and trick play. Sounds like any type of saved recording is tied to service...

Thanks again.
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post #795 of 1011 Old 08-20-2014, 08:51 AM
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I'm in a tough OTA reception area, and the Channel Master's DVR+ tuner didn't cut the mustard as it had me lose a couple valuable borderline channels that I get somewhat well with the TV's tuner. This will be the challenge for the Roamio and it's 4 tuners.
The Roamio tuners are quite good -- better than the Premier and on par with the TiVo HD. The 7-day trial will let you evaluate how they perform in your reception area without having to lay out for the lifetime sub. That will make it easy to return the TiVo if it can't pull in your channels.

It will be very useful if you were to post a comparison of the Roamio tuners and the DVR+ tuners. That question has been asked several times and nobody has been in a position to answer it. You seem in an ideal situation -- your HDTV gets all the channels, the DVR+ does not, you have a Roamio on the way to see how it does in comparison.

A lot of people would appreciate you posting a comparison.
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post #796 of 1011 Old 08-20-2014, 09:08 AM
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Kelson, I returned the DVR+ several weeks ago, but I kept detailed notes with all of my testing of various antennas and now DVR's. I actually have one more antenna coming this Friday, a DB4-E. FWIW, I also have a Tablo coming today...

The big thing are those 2 fringe channels. Oddly, if Roamio had a 2 tuner model, I would have bought that as the hope would be that it would degrade the signal less (fewer splits)... I'm guessing that the Roamio supplies amplification to minimize loss via splitting...

If the Roamio can have me retain the current reception level of those 2 important channels (FOX and CBS), it will be a keeper. Ideally, it would be great, if reception improved of course. Apparently Samsung tuners are quite good, by accounts I've read, so I suppose it will have a tough comparison...

I can still test the tuner after the 7 day period too, at least that is my understanding. Between the new antenna, Tablo arriving, work, and looming biz travel, I'll likely need more than a week. Hoping trick TV will work also with no service, after those 7 days...

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post #797 of 1011 Old 08-20-2014, 09:35 AM
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Yes, you keep trick play. They had disabled that at some point on the Premieres (with no service) but added it back with a later update.

I think you will really like the Roamio, assuming it gets the channels you want reliably.
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post #798 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quick question, back to a TiVo Roamio without a subscription... Would it show basic EPG (or is it PSIP?) data as one would see with a direct connection to a TV?

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post #799 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quick question, back to a TiVo Roamio without a subscription... Would it show basic EPG (or is it PSIP?) data as one would see with a direct connection to a TV?
Unlikely. You are approaching this wrong -- most people do. You are approaching this as if by buying a TiVo box you are buying a DVR and trying to get around paying for the service as if the TiVo service was just an expensive add-on.

TiVo's product is their service, not the box. You are buying their service and to use their service they provide low-cost subsidized hardware -- do you honestly think you could ever buy a 4-tuner full function DVR for anything close to $165? So buying the TiVo hardware and expecting it to work without the TiVo service would be like buying a Verizon cell phone and expecting it to work without also buying a Verizon cell phone plan.
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post #800 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 02:52 PM
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I am pondering keeping the Tablo TV for recording, streaming over the LAN and WAN, which one can't do with the base Roamio. It would also provide OTA service to other TV's in the home, like guest room, etc, so no hard wiring needed...

I realize there is TiVo Stream, but it seems to need an Ethernet connection (our router is maxed-out and Roamio has no pass-through) and other Stream limitations...

Roamio's role in this proposed solution is a rather non-demanding one - to simply tune channels at our main TV quickly and easily via a remote (not something Tablo addresses well), and offer trick TV, which we use daily. If I can purchase something like that for 85 bucks (my outlay for the new Roamio), I'd like to know as I missed it...

The free OTA programming is more than sufficient for our viewing needs. I was simply asking if that would be available in the absence of a subscription. Seems like it would not be... With the likes of Roku, I'm the only one if the family who records these days, and that's maybe 3 to 5 times a month, for sporting events I'd otherwise miss.

Money is not a driving factor here and honestly, I don't really appreciate the tirade. I could return the Tablo and 2 TB external drive and darn near pay for the TiVo Lifetime. In addition, Tablo Lifetime is $150, and that is an expense I'm prepared to pay as well. This possible route (using a combo TiVo & Tablo solution) would cost more money...

However, I might just go the TiVo only path, and return the Tablo and 2 TB drive. I have two boxes with TiVo Lifetime now actually, one being an HR23 (DirecTV, grandfathered) and an ancient one, a Philips as I recall. I'm not adverse to the concept.

I'm seeking a solution and will gladly pay more for it. That said, paying 400 bucks for Lifetime to see guide data (my only need in this scenario), when that already exists for free, provoked the question...

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post #801 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 02:57 PM
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TiVo eliminated the ability to use the hardware for time-based recordings without the service with either the series 2 or series 3 models. The unit is mostly a brick without the service and can only be used to pause live TV.
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post #802 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 03:03 PM
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TiVo eliminated the ability to use the hardware for time-based recordings without the service with either the series 2 or series 3 models. The unit is mostly a brick without the service and can only be used to pause live TV.
Thank you Aleron Ives. This confirmed what someone said earlier.

If the "brick" still tunes our channels and pauses live TV, it might be a worthwhile 85 dollar brick for us, lol.

IF it allows for the free OTA guide data as well, all the better... If not, I can have a coax antenna feed to the TV if we must see such. Actually, channel 1-1 out here is a scrolling guide of sorts.
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post #803 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 03:12 PM
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Why would you spend $90 to use an unsubscribed TiVo as a tuner when you could buy an iView or Homeworx for $40 and get the same functionality, plus the ability to make time-based recordings? There are zero reasons to purchase a TiVo if you're not going to buy the service with it.
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post #804 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 03:29 PM
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Well you are assuming that I won't buy service, now or later. As stated, I might, have in the past, one still active at our other home via a DirecTV grandfather... There is a reason. And, even if I decide not to get service at this time, maybe I'll decide to do so later, for whatever reason (change my mind, new service offering, who knows). Having a TiVo waiting in the wings, ready to be set free with a subscription is worth something, arguably a 45 dollar premium to a Homeworx. Pretty hard to turn-down a new Roamio delivered for less than 85 bucks, whether I use it minimally or in its entirety... And if I want time-based recordings and the full glory of TiVo, I make it happen and beat the pants off the Homeworx functionality-wise. I've purchased an option. For those who trade, a call, a LEAP in some respects...

I've been testing / experimenting with antennas, preamps, and most recently DVR's. I have no idea what will work best in our location. As stated previously, I don't even know if the Roamio's tuner will be able to secure a couple tough channels for us, like the TV's tuner, and now Tablo. The DVR+ could not (had several weeks to try)...

So, it might be a subscribed $85 TiVo, or it might not. I just don't know at this time. I'm still putting Tablo through the paces, and will start with the Roamio next week...
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post #805 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 04:01 PM
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I realize there is TiVo Stream, but it seems to need an Ethernet connection (our router is maxed-out and Roamio has no pass-through) and other Stream limitations...
you keep saying that like there is no solution. many people have bypassed the 4 port router limitation by simply buying a network switch .

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post #806 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 04:04 PM
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you keep saying that like there is no solution. many people have bypassed the 4 port router limitation by simply buying a network switch .
ANd another and another... I have over sixty five devices on my network. My router only has four switch ports. Most of the devices are connected to one of 15 GigE switches on my network. While the rest of the devices are connected over wireless. Of course all 65+ devices still pass through the router to reach the internet.

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post #807 of 1011 Old 08-23-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Bickering ends now. Thanks.

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post #808 of 1011 Old 08-24-2014, 07:03 AM
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Tony, an unsubbed Tivo is only good for live TV. That's it. No guide data, no streaming, no internet apps, no recording, nothing else. Live TV with NO show info. There's really no point to getting one solely for live OTA TV without a sub, you could use your TV's internal tuner or pretty much anything else to do it cheaper (or free).
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post #809 of 1011 Old 08-24-2014, 11:07 AM
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Thank you slowbiscuit, and you DrDon for getting us back on track. Much appreciated. I took some time before leaving for the day to share some thoughts...

I think you or someone else said earlier that it also can pause too. if indeed correct, an unsubbed TiVo is good for tuning live TV and pause (trick TV). If it were not for the later, I totally agree that there is no apparent benefit of an unsubbed Tivo.

The features of an unsubbed TiVo have changed over the years. When I worked at TiVo, it was live TV, trick TV and manual record. I was in their "Knowledge Department", and had to work closely with Engineering so I could accurately draft such tidbits for the "Knowledge DB". From accounts I've read on the web thereafter, it seems that unsubbed TiVos later lost manual record, and even trick TV too, at least for a while. The features of an unsubbed box has been dynamic over time, thus my asking where we are today... Now = live TV tuning and pause, with no guide data, recording, streaming or apps.

I know for certainty that I need an above average tuner in this location. Reception, reliable programming is foundational, and if not there, well not much else matters. So, I'm experimenting with different DVR platforms, their tuning capabilities (relative to our TV's, which is acceptable). Tivo, which is the service of course, is unrivaled. I don't need to be convinced of that. I still have two boxes under my name with Lifetime. I ordered the Roamio with every intention of getting Lifetime once again.

If Roamio's tuner passes the "test", and by most accounts on the web, I'm optimistic it will, then I'll most likely keep it. Given the huge discount, it was a no-brainer to order and try...

In the interim, unlike the DVR+, the Tablo's tuner has shined, actually, I think it's outdoing the tuner on the Samsung TV, which is the baseline for reference purposes. I tried our other TVs, and those tuners are inferior, at least in our situation / location. The Tablo cannot compete with TiVo for the living room experience and integration into an entertainment system. Even with an attached Roku, it's awkward... I knew all of this before pulling the trigger because its tuning capability had me curious and I really wanted to feel all that it has to offer. It's a neat product, I feel. No reason to expound here in a TiVo thread, but I do like its 1080 stream quality, and it worked for me all over the house, property and outside our network. Recording was straight-forward and worked and Lifetime is just $150, and for the account. It has its merits and the fact that it has a solid tuner, has me knowing that I have a solution of sorts, even though it's a clunky experience in the living room.

The big boy (TiVo Roamio) comes next week. If the tuner gets the job done, then I need to decide, keep the Tablo, keep the Roamio, or possibly both.

As odd as it might sound, we watch very little TV. It has been 20+ years since I've watched something other than news or sports. I last remember "Moonlighting", "Northern Exposure" and I guess "Cheers", to get the idea. We'll watch the news fairly regularly, with no reason to record. The focus in this household is sports. That has been our only reason to record live TV, when we are not able to watch real time, often because we are at that game. The little ones watch educational programming, and they pretty much get all of that off of the PBS network. Now with Roku in the fold, that is being watched more and more, so no reason to record. The need to record is minimal (handful of times a month, sports), but when needed, it's deemed really important to us. We are a very active family and generally find typical TV viewing to be contrary to our lifestyle...

Given the emphasis on sports, trick TV is valued here, almost as much as recording itself, more so in some respects because it is likely to be used to be daily. We almost don't need a guide, the more I think of it. We know what channel the game of interest will be on, we know where to find the news and PBS. If more educational programming is desired, off to the Roku (TED, History,et al).

It seems that a Roamio will do that for us, integrate into our system well (Harmony 1 remote) and get us to the channels we want, with pause and at the same time afford us the upside to get Lifetime, basically make it into a full-fledged TiVo, should that be desired again. There are less expensive solutions for tuning and trick TV, but will such tune as well as a Roamio, have 4 tuners waiting in the wings, and can blossom into a TiVo upon demand? No. The Roamio, whether limited with no subscription to serve core needs, or unleashed with service, is a steal at the price paid.

If keeping both is desirable, the Tablo would then make sense for recording those special sporting events on occasion, guide data if desired, and also gets our other TVs connected and devices, within and outside the home. I would only enter Tablo to record and watch recordings. It also keeps me in the Tablo loop and what looks to be some cool future developments. Having both affords the upside of the known (TiVo service) and the unknown or possible, what Tablo has looming...
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post #810 of 1011 Old 08-25-2014, 08:12 AM
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TonyB -
I've never tried a Tivo without a subscription, so I've no idea how it will work for you. What you are about to attempt will be an interesting experiment. I do know that there is an approximate 30 minute pause buffer and after that I think the pause point just keeps moving forward.

Somewhere above you mentioned that you'd like a two tuner model. I have a two tuner Premiere that I use for my OTA recording and to watch what I've recorded on my Roamio. (Networked Tivos are very cool, so think about extending your network with a network switch). So, if you really want two-tuners you might want to consider a refurbished Premiere.

I also think you're a bit nuts to be buying a Tivo and not getting their subscription. But the way I look at it everyone on this forum is a little nuts in one way or another. IMHO, being nuts is basically the tie that binds us all together. So, go for it! And let us know if it works for you.
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