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TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
03:14 PM Liked: 24
post #811 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 407
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Thanks Hyrax for the reply. Nuts to some I suppose but we are eccentric!

I too have never had a TiVo w/o service too, thus my inquiry. And to be clear, I didn't buy a TiVo to not get service. I actually called TiVo inquiring about Lifetime a couple weeks ago, and they secured the $399 deal for me, should I decide to buy a Roamio. I did of course, and apparently it arrives today.

It's an experiment alright, like all that I'm doing with antennas, locations, height off ground, preamps, splitters, etc.... now tuners (TVs and DVRs).

The consideration of a Tablo in the fold has me pondering a Tablo / TiVo solution. Maybe I decide to get Lifetime on each. I'm pretty certain I'll get Lifetime on the Tablo as it covers the box I have now, and any others I might get for $150. I can envision another Tablo at another house, in a more desirable OTA reception location. And if the Tablo is fine in the attic, attenuation or loss can be much less in some situations. A coax run of just 10 to 20 feet, down the mast into the attic, to the Tablo, would be slick. All TVs and devices served with very minimal loss due to long coax runs, splitters and complications that can arise from amplification. Tablo has its virtues.

Fortunately, one of the best spots on the roof of the house in question is right above the big screen. The coax run to the TiVo should not be more than 25 feet.

With the ClearStream4 antenna now in the garage, replaced with the slightly better DE4e, I'm contemplating a separate mast for the C4, and have it directly feed the Tablo in the attic, again, if that's ok to do...

Nice to have some redundancy or backup where possible / feasible: antennas, separate coax runs, tuners / DVR...

For now, I'll just put a splitter on the current coax run and feed both DVRs (TiVo and Tablo), with a CM-7777 preamp hopefully addressing any associated losses on this short run. Should be interesting....
Aleron Ives's Avatar Aleron Ives
04:14 PM Liked: 542
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08-25-2014 | Posts: 3,419
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Reception is important to him due to being in a fringe reception area, so he should not get a Premiere. There are many reports that it has an inferior tuner to the one in the TiVo HD (series 3) and the one in the Roamio (series 5).
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
04:51 PM Liked: 24
post #813 of 1481
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Reception is paramount, so Aleron Ives is correct. I too have heard that Premiere's are not up to the TiVo high standard, which I guess the TiVo HD was one of the best...

Speaking of which, I have the Roamio here next to me. Time to open it up!
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
06:29 PM Liked: 24
post #814 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 407
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Had a conference call that I recently finished, and it's scanning channels now...

First impressions, of no surprise, are excellent. The packaging is exceptional and set-up is a breeze. I have not see a scan take this long. Well over 5 minutes.

The remote is classic and brought back many memories... TiVo got that right from the get go! I'll add to this post later...
Keenan's Avatar Keenan
06:29 PM Liked: 560
post #815 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 28,845
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This is something TonyB1966 might be interested in.

TiVo Roamio OTA

In select markets initially says the article below.

TiVo debuts new digital video recorder for cord cutters
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
06:35 PM Liked: 24
post #816 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
This is something TonyB1966 might be interested in.

TiVo Roamio OTA

In select markets initially says the article below.

TiVo debuts new digital video recorder for cord cutters
Wow, indeed. While I'm in "Getting Program Info" now, let me ask...

Is the only difference between this new offering and the base Roamio is that this one is purely OTA, all else the same, including the tuner?

I appreciate you sharing.
Keenan's Avatar Keenan
07:32 PM Liked: 560
post #817 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 28,845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
Wow, indeed. While I'm in "Getting Program Info" now, let me ask...

Is the only difference between this new offering and the base Roamio is that this one is purely OTA, all else the same, including the tuner?

I appreciate you sharing.
I would assume it's the same box as the TiVo Roamio Basic CableCARD model but without(maybe disabled) the CableCARD slot and associated electronics that go with it, so I'm guessing everything else would be the same.

You might want to check the TiVo Community Forum.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
07:50 PM Liked: 897
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08-25-2014 | Posts: 22,500
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You can get the new TiVo Roamio OTA model. It's only OTA, no cable card slot. $50 for the hardware and $15 a month. No lifetime option. I see it must have just been released this week. It looks like the Roamio Basic but with no cable card slot.
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
07:54 PM Liked: 24
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On the phone now with TiVo...

Apparently same box, minus the cable card reader and cable tuner. Her words, not mine.

She's reading some literature and no other difference from the Roamio 4. She read a "KDB" which is what I used to draft. Too funny... Ah, NO Product Lifetime or multi on Roamio OTA. Important stuff, at least for me.

Oh, no trick TV without service. So, it looks like we were wrong on that front...

So far the tuner is getting it done! TiVo Roamio grades tough on the signal. A channel that has a 30 SNR got just 72 on the Roamio. For me, anything less than 40 is looking suspect...
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
08:01 PM Liked: 897
post #820 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 22,500
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Yes with no lifetime $15 a month can be expensive. I have a Roamio BAsic I got last November for OTA only. And as a backup to my Roamio Pro. But I only payed $175 for it at the time and was able to transfer my $6.95 a month rate from my Premiere to the Roamio BAsic(And they gave me lifetime on the Premiere for $99). So I don't mind paying a low $6.95 rate indefinitely. As long as I don't sign a new contract I can keep the rate. At least that has been the case for the last seven years or so.
jamez68's Avatar jamez68
10:02 PM Liked: 18
post #821 of 1481
08-25-2014 | Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
This is something TonyB1966 might be interested in.

TiVo Roamio OTA

In select markets initially says the article below.

TiVo debuts new digital video recorder for cord cutters
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
You can get the new TiVo Roamio OTA model. It's only OTA, no cable card slot. $50 for the hardware and $15 a month. No lifetime option. I see it must have just been released this week. It looks like the Roamio Basic but with no cable card slot.
I knew that $50 price sounded too good to be true! Maybe this is what they meant when they said they were getting out of the hardware business, could this possibly be the end of lifetime subs? Ive been considering a Tivo but dont want to pay forever for it.
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
10:51 PM Liked: 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamez68 View Post
I knew that $50 price sounded too good to be true! Maybe this is what they meant when they said they were getting out of the hardware business, could this possibly be the end of lifetime subs? Ive been considering a Tivo but dont want to pay forever for it.
My guess, I would say not (ending Lifetime subs)... While they ultimately make more money on monthly subs, paying a lump sum upfront has its advantages for a company. It also creates a form of loyalty.

That said, when TiVo first came-out with Lifetime, it was not all that clear what that meant exactly. Yet, I know what I was told, others I know as well, and what many reps stated to customers. Not saying it was by design to be misleading, but it happened...

Tablo's Lifetime is not as ambiguous, but I am inquiring about the definitive language.
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
06:40 AM Liked: 544
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08-26-2014 | Posts: 10,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamez68 View Post
could this possibly be the end of lifetime subs? Ive been considering a Tivo but dont want to pay forever for it.
They canceled lifetime subs once before -- and brought them back in less than a year. The only reason to do that is if the market rebelled and they lost sales. TiVo seems like a company that learns its lessons.

If you are concerned, get off the fence and buy a Roamio+lifetime now.

I'm not impressed with Roamio OTA -- $50 hardware cost but $15/month with no lifetime option is not a good deal. During the Premiers run they did an OTA-only offer. The hardware was still the same price but they offered a discounted monthly subscription of $10/month -or- lifetime -- a better deal. Now, if they offered a discounted OTA lifetime option, that would stir some interest.
slowbiscuit
07:06 AM Liked: 287
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08-26-2014 | Posts: 4,491
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The new OTA box will be DOA at that monthly price and with intentionally crippled features (no Mini support, no lifetime service, possibly no MRV/MRS to other Tivos).

One of two things will happen - the price model will change rather quickly or they'll dump it as a failed experiment. I think it would be a decent box at $400-450 all-in, or maybe $50 with $7-10 monthly but that's it.

Oh and Tony a couple of things to remember about lifetime - it has a 30-day money back guarantee so you have plenty of time to decide if it's worth the $400, and your Roamio will be worth much more money if you ever need to sell it in future.
L David Matheny's Avatar L David Matheny
08:44 AM Liked: 22
post #825 of 1481
08-26-2014 | Posts: 442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
They canceled lifetime subs once before -- and brought them back in less than a year. The only reason to do that is if the market rebelled and they lost sales. TiVo seems like a company that learns its lessons.
It would be better to say that TiVo stopped selling lifetimes subs for a while. If they tried to cancel existing subs, there would of course be lawsuits, plus they would lose all credibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I'm not impressed with Roamio OTA -- $50 hardware cost but $15/month with no lifetime option is not a good deal. During the Premiers run they did an OTA-only offer. The hardware was still the same price but they offered a discounted monthly subscription of $10/month -or- lifetime -- a better deal. Now, if they offered a discounted OTA lifetime option, that would stir some interest.
I agree about the Roamio OTA, and I wondered how it could be worth redesigning the hardware for only a modest initial savings that will always be dwarfed by the monthly costs. But you may be onto something: Now that TiVo has a Roamio that isn't even capable of using cable, they could offer a $10 monthly cost without worrying about disputes when someone tries to switch the $10 rate to cable use. And for similar reasons a discounted lifetime rate might be reasonable for the Roamio OTA, although I can't imagine it being less than $400 nominal or $300 with Multi-Service Discount, given their business model.
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
08:59 AM Liked: 544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post
And for similar reasons a discounted lifetime rate might be reasonable for the Roamio OTA, although I can't imagine it being less than $400 nominal or $300 with Multi-Service Discount, given their business model.
At $50 hardware cost, a $450 OTA Roamio (or $350 with MSD) would be a great deal. However, I really don't see their overall costs decreasing because someone is using the service for OTA vs. cable. I doubt they will be paying less for the guide data and the rest of their costs will remain the same. So I can't see them offering a discount lifetime for OTA.
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
09:06 AM Liked: 24
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08-26-2014 | Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Oh and Tony a couple of things to remember about lifetime - it has a 30-day money back guarantee so you have plenty of time to decide if it's worth the $400, and your Roamio will be worth much more money if you ever need to sell it in future.
Thanks slowbiscuit. The rep reminded me of the 30-day trial, with zero risk. I am damn near certain I'm getting Lifetime now as there is no trick TV otherwise. When I had asked here, the consensus was that trick TV was available w/o service. The definition of "brick" or unsubed TiVo has changed multiple times over the years, so the confusion is understood...

I actually should sell my two older TiVo boxes with Lifetime. Thanks for reminding me. I might keep the Philips one though. I'm a sentimental guy...

The Roamio tuner rocks. I have not yet checked it this morning, but I am confident already, that like the Tablo's tuner, they are both at least as good as the Samsung's. The Roamio's tuner seems to get a better lock, for lack of a better description.

That said, I'm going up on the roof later to scope-out a good location for another mast and the garaged C4 antenna. This would be our networked DVR (Tablo) for those times we want to watch around the house, yard or when away from home. It will serve as a back-up too, should something happen to the DB4e mast / antenna set-up, or god forbid, TiVo....

The TiVo will have center stage, at the main TV, for all of the obvious reasons; mainly just for seamless integration by having a remote control and a direct connection to the big screen. That's how I'm starting to see this total solution coming together for us...
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
09:18 AM Liked: 544
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08-26-2014 | Posts: 10,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
When I had asked here, the consensus was that trick TV was available w/o service. The definition of "brick" or unsubed TiVo has changed multiple times over the years, so the confusion is understood...
So to summarize, what exactly were you able to do with the un-subed Roamio.
Scan and tune the OTA channels with no other features? -- is that pretty much it?

Quote:
The Roamio tuner rocks. I have not yet checked it this morning, but I am confident already, that like the Tablo's tuner, they are both at least as good as the Samsung's. The Roamio's tuner seems to get a better lock, for lack of a better description.
So, as I asked in a previous post, you seem to have determined the Roamio tuner is superior to the DVR+ tuner in terms of pulling in channels.

Quote:
The TiVo will have center stage, at the main TV, for all of the obvious reasons; mainly just for seamless integration by having a remote control and a direct connection to the big screen.
If you use the TiVo remote, it is an RF remote and works from under an afghan or blanket -- no need to take your arm out to point the remote. Very useful to know for viewing in the winter.
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
09:52 AM Liked: 24
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08-26-2014 | Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
So to summarize, what exactly were you able to do with the un-subed Roamio.
Scan and tune the OTA channels with no other features? -- is that pretty much it?


So, as I asked in a previous post, you seem to have determined the Roamio tuner is superior to the DVR+ tuner in terms of pulling in channels.

If you use the TiVo remote, it is an RF remote and works from under an afghan or blanket -- no need to take your arm out to point the remote. Very useful to know for viewing in the winter.
I was able to proceed through set-up, download updates, add my TV's remote control, scan for channels (a seemingly very thorough scan), and tune OTA channels. I don't see anything else of note. General remote buttons work, like channel up, down, volume, mute, direct number entry, even last channel...

Without question, this TiVo Roamio tunes much better here than the DVR+ we had... I'm sure the DVR+'s tuner is perfectly fine for the vast majority of folks, their locations...

Ok, you now know that I care about you Kelson... I was in bed, on a conference call (as a passive listener primarily), so what do I do? I go down to the garage, find the moving box with our blankets, and get a thick wool one out. From about 15' away (from the TiVo box), the TiVo remote works from under that blanket! I was somewhat curious myself, so glad to do so...
Keenan's Avatar Keenan
11:07 AM Liked: 560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post



I agree about the Roamio OTA, and I wondered how it could be worth redesigning the hardware for only a modest initial savings that will always be dwarfed by the monthly costs. But you may be onto something: Now that TiVo has a Roamio that isn't even capable of using cable, they could offer a $10 monthly cost without worrying about disputes when someone tries to switch the $10 rate to cable use. And for similar reasons a discounted lifetime rate might be reasonable for the Roamio OTA, although I can't imagine it being less than $400 nominal or $300 with Multi-Service Discount, given their business model.
My guess is that they didn't really redesign the hardware but just sealed off the CableCARD access(a new injection molded base maybe) and possibly even removed the CC tray, disable the cable tuner and that's about all they had to do as the Roamio Basic was already OTA capable. Just another market for already existing hardware.
ncted's Avatar ncted
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The worst part about the OTA to me is the lack of Mini support. I can see they are selling a cost-cut model, but that is an odd thing to leave out given the Mini MRV is all in software AFAIK.

-Ted
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncted View Post
The worst part about the OTA to me is the lack of Mini support. I can see they are selling a cost-cut model, but that is an odd thing to leave out given the Mini MRV is all in software AFAIK.

-Ted
Yes. i only read about no Mini support today. Th ehigh monthly cost was bad enough. but without being able to use a Mini with the OTA Roamio, it seems pretty much worthless. My GF is OTA only. She curently uses two Series 3 TiVos. But a four tuner Roamio would work for her, only if she could use a Mini with it, since she has more than one viewing location.

Currently if one of her S3 boxes dies I plan to give her an old two tuner premiere. But if they both die then I would need to get her a four tuner Roamio or give her my Roamio Basic that I use for OTA only with a $6.95 a month TiVo subscription.
Aleron Ives's Avatar Aleron Ives
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
[...] my Roamio Basic that I use for OTA only with a $6.95 a month TiVo subscription.
Are you saying that the normal monthly fee for the regular OTA/cable Roamio is less than half the price of the one for the OTA-only Roamio, or is that some special rate you managed to get?
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
09:27 PM Liked: 897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
Are you saying that the normal monthly fee for the regular OTA/cable Roamio is less than half the price of the one for the OTA-only Roamio, or is that some special rate you managed to get?
My TiVos typically have lifetime service, but for some reason I got a TiVoHD with a monthly rate of $6.95 back in 2007. So I was able to transfer that rate to a launch Premiere and then to a Roamio Basic. It has been many years since they offered a monthly rate so low. It is also why I don't want to lose it.
VideoJames's Avatar VideoJames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
Yes. i only read about no Mini support today. Th ehigh monthly cost was bad enough. but without being able to use a Mini with the OTA Roamio, it seems pretty much worthless. My GF is OTA only. She curently uses two Series 3 TiVos. But a four tuner Roamio would work for her, only if she could use a Mini with it, since she has more than one viewing location.

Currently if one of her S3 boxes dies I plan to give her an old two tuner premiere. But if they both die then I would need to get her a four tuner Roamio or give her my Roamio Basic that I use for OTA only with a $6.95 a month TiVo subscription.
Not sure that the Tivo Mini won't work with this Roamio OTA, but the wording in Tivo's press release seems to indicate that the Mini will work with it:

http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/si...q-tivo-1139697

That still leaves the lack of lifetime service as a major disadvantage, but maybe Tivo is thinking that the cord-cutter market that this is aimed at wouldn't have the money to afford lifetime service anyway?
slowbiscuit
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It doesn't support Minis.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
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Yes. Apparently it has been confirmed through TiVo that the OTA Roamio does not work with a Mini. That combined with no lifetime service pretty much makes it worthless. But I guess if you only need to use it on one television you could get some use out of it. But having to constantly pay $15 a month makes it almost as bad as having a cable company DVR. WHich typically run around $20 a month.
L David Matheny's Avatar L David Matheny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
But having to constantly pay $15 a month makes it almost as bad as having a cable company DVR. WHich typically run around $20 a month.
But if you're paying for a cable company DVR, presumably you're also paying the cable company an exorbitant delivery fee for providing you with a program feed. Of course their feed does provide channels you can't get with an antenna, but the costly infrastructure makes cable a very expensive delivery method.
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
But having to constantly pay $15 a month makes it almost as bad as having a cable company DVR.
This fee will not attract newly-minted cord cutters away from the DVR+. When you read their comments they feel they have liberated themselves from the monthly TV fee and put an absolute premium on a DVR solution that has no recurring fee -- no fee OTA TV is a religious experience for them. For that they are willing to put up with a reduced feature set and occasional missed recordings.

As to the lack of Mini support, TiVo is doing some marketing. Their product is their service not the subsidized boxes that use the service. I find it hard to see any difference in their costs for the service they provide a cable user vs an OTA user so this OTA discount on the box is pretty artificial and is an experiment looking to attract a new segment -- without cannibalizing the revenue from their existing base. The OTA discount has the potential to cost them a lot of $$ if they offered the same box/features/service to their current OTA user base at a $150 discount. They have decreased their revenue without decreasing their costs so here is where they introduce some TiVo product segmentation. First they eliminate the lifetime service because at the current lifetime cost they would be losing $150/subscriber while their costs are the same -- not to mention that people will expect OTA lifetime to be less because TiVo is already saying that OTA is cheaper with the reduced box price. Second they eliminate Mini support (what else is missing?) which degrades the feature set of the service, so now the TiVo OTA is a lesser box -- a lower model in the product line -- reduced cost = reduced feature set. This is all a marketing experiment to see if they can get new blood in the fold.

If you want the service features that the TiVo OTA doesn't have, then you need to step up in cost to buy the additional features and buy the full Roamio Basic box for $200 (TiVo website prices).

So we know that for the Roamio OTA: lifetime is not available; Mini support is not available -- what else is missing we don't know about yet???
slowbiscuit
07:15 AM Liked: 287
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08-28-2014 | Posts: 4,491
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Sam Biller (sbiller) over at TCF says Mini support was dropped because they chose a cheaper Broadcom chip. This is a real head-scratcher to me since a 3-year old, 4-tuner Premiere supports Minis just fine. I'm surprised that you can even get a chip today that's worse than the one in the Premieres, because it was a slug from the get-go.

Agree with all the comments about cord-cutters btw, lord knows we've seen plenty of folks here saying they'll never pay Tivo a monthly fee. Tivo is smoking something with this box if they don't offer a fully bundled price (doesn't have to be called lifetime, just sell it outright for $399 or whatever).
Tags: Tivo Roamio Dvr , Tivo Roamio Plus Dvr , Tivo Roamio Pro Dvr

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