Philips HDR5710/5750 DVRs, Antenna/Cable, Streaming, Int/Ext HDDs, 33TB Storage - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 619 Old 12-12-2013, 11:01 PM
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I've been lurking on this forum for  a while. I just got my new Philips 5750. I was prepared for a lot of issues, but not this one: my TV picks up a lot of channels in the bay area, including the major networks (ABC/NBC/Fox/CBS/PBS, but the 5750 refused to pick up any of these. Bummer, because I specifically bought this to record sports programs broadcast on these channels.

 

Everything else works fine, including internet etc, but the one specific reason I got this unit, to record OTA sports programs like football games,  doesn't work!

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post #302 of 619 Old 12-12-2013, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

I've been lurking on this forum for  a while. I just got my new Philips 5750. I was prepared for a lot of issues, but not this one: my TV picks up a lot of channels in the bay area, including the major networks (ABC/NBC/Fox/CBS/PBS, but the 5750 refused to pick up any of these. Bummer, because I specifically bought this to record sports programs broadcast on these channels.

 

Everything else works fine, including internet etc, but the one specific reason I got this unit, to record OTA sports programs like football games,  doesn't work!

 

skib,

What is your zip code and which cable system are you using?  There might be a solution, but need this info to help you.

dfw515


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post #303 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

I've been lurking on this forum for  a while. I just got my new Philips 5750. I was prepared for a lot of issues, but not this one: my TV picks up a lot of channels in the bay area, including the major networks (ABC/NBC/Fox/CBS/PBS, but the 5750 refused to pick up any of these. Bummer, because I specifically bought this to record sports programs broadcast on these channels.

 

Everything else works fine, including internet etc, but the one specific reason I got this unit, to record OTA sports programs like football games,  doesn't work!


The bay area Comcast has lost clear QAM, but that doesn't affect OTA.

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post #304 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 11:38 AM
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Your link appears to be bad.

My clock set every 4 hr so it is never more than a couple seconds off.

Sorry, looks like he moved but never updated the link in his own program. http://www.softdevlabs.com/ClockMon/ClockMon.html

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post #305 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 12:28 PM
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This is off-the-air. As I said, if I connect the same antenna (indoor) to my samsung TV, all channels work fine, but the philips DVR only gets about 1/2 the channels, and almost none of the lower numbered ones (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x, 11.x). All of these are remapped, perhaps it has something to do with that? 

 

I moved the antenna around, and managed to get 2.1 to show up but extremely pixelated.  Perhaps the ATSC tuner in this device is weaker that the one in the TV, is that possible? 

 

- skib

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post #306 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

This is off-the-air. As I said, if I connect the same antenna (indoor) to my samsung TV, all channels work fine, but the philips DVR only gets about 1/2 the channels, and almost none of the lower numbered ones (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x, 11.x). All of these are remapped, perhaps it has something to do with that? 

 

I moved the antenna around, and managed to get 2.1 to show up but extremely pixelated.  Perhaps the ATSC tuner in this device is weaker that the one in the TV, is that possible? 

 

- skib


I'm cable only. It's more probable that the signals are too strong. But that's easy to test: hook a piece of wire to the DVR. Also, there should be a signal strength indicator. It only goes to 100. Plus it did FIND the channels.

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post #307 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 12:43 PM
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I'm cable only. It's more probable that the signals are too strong. But that's easy to test: hook a piece of wire to the DVR. Also, there should be a signal strength indicator. It only goes to 100. Plus it did FIND the channels.

 

Quote:
First time I'm hearing signals being 'too strong' causing reception problems, doesn't make sense to me, do you have an explanation? Also, the only channel it found was 2.1 (after moving around the antenna position). 
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post #308 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

This is off-the-air. As I said, if I connect the same antenna (indoor) to my samsung TV, all channels work fine, but the philips DVR only gets about 1/2 the channels, and almost none of the lower numbered ones (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x, 11.x). All of these are remapped, perhaps it has something to do with that? 

 

I moved the antenna around, and managed to get 2.1 to show up but extremely pixelated.  Perhaps the ATSC tuner in this device is weaker that the one in the TV, is that possible? 

 

- skib

 

 To test for a too-strong signal, you can unscrew the coax until just a couple of threads are still engaged, pull the center core out as far as it will go, and see if tuning improves. If it does, the signal is too strong and will require RF attenuator(s), as described in this help file.

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post #309 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to see if someone can test their unit for an amplified video circuit, like the Philips/Mag DVDRs have.

 

It's pretty simple:

 

1. With unit connected to incoming coax and on to a TV, watch live TV.

 

2. While watching live TV, pull the power cord of the Philips.

 

3. If the pic quality drops dramatically, the video circuit is amplified.

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post #310 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

This is off-the-air. As I said, if I connect the same antenna (indoor) to my samsung TV, all channels work fine, but the philips DVR only gets about 1/2 the channels, and almost none of the lower numbered ones (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x, 11.x). All of these are remapped, perhaps it has something to do with that? 

 

I moved the antenna around, and managed to get 2.1 to show up but extremely pixelated.  Perhaps the ATSC tuner in this device is weaker that the one in the TV, is that possible? 

 

- skib

 

skib,

Try entering your zip code on this website http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/ and click on Search.  Make sure that the drop-down box in the upper left corner says "Digital Antenna", then find your local FOX, NBC, CBS, etc channels listed.  Try entering both the Channel number and Virtual Channel number into your 5750.  Your HDTV probably uses the "Virtual".  You might just need to teach your 5750 how to remap the channel numbers.  In the past, this method was mostly used for those using cable TV systems (like Time Warner), but MAYBE there is something different about the ATSC tuners in the 5750.

 

As an example, KPIX is your local CBS affiliate.  Your HDTV probably uses 5.1 as it's HD channel number.  Try entering 29.1 into your 5750.  It MIGHT remap the 5750 to channel 5.1

 

 

dfw515


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post #311 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dfw515 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

This is off-the-air. As I said, if I connect the same antenna (indoor) to my samsung TV, all channels work fine, but the philips DVR only gets about 1/2 the channels, and almost none of the lower numbered ones (2.x, 4.x, 5.x, 7.x, 9.x, 11.x). All of these are remapped, perhaps it has something to do with that? 

 

I moved the antenna around, and managed to get 2.1 to show up but extremely pixelated.  Perhaps the ATSC tuner in this device is weaker that the one in the TV, is that possible? 

 

- skib

 

skib,

Try entering your zip code on this website http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels/ and click on Search.  Make sure that the drop-down box in the upper left corner says "Digital Antenna", then find your local FOX, NBC, CBS, etc channels listed.  Try entering both the Channel number and Virtual Channel number into your 5750.  Your HDTV probably uses the "Virtual".  You might just need to teach your 5750 how to remap the channel numbers.  In the past, this method was mostly used for those using cable TV systems (like Time Warner), but MAYBE there is something different about the ATSC tuners in the 5750.

 

As an example, KPIX is your local CBS affiliate.  Your HDTV probably uses 5.1 as it's HD channel number.  Try entering 29.1 into your 5750.  It MIGHT remap the 5750 to channel 5.1

 

 

dfw515

 

It never occurred to me that skib might be getting his channels except not in the channel slots (numbers) he's used to.

 

The signal strength test might not be needed if he can confirm that he DOES see the expected channel CONTENT but not on the channel numbers he's used to... they might be "mapped" to diff. ch. #s. Look for station and content, not channel numbers?

 

Here's some info on Mapping Channels in case that turns out to be true.

 

If the content is not there anywhere, then a signal-strength test might help.

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post #312 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by skib View Post

First time I'm hearing signals being 'too strong' causing reception problems, doesn't make sense to me, do you have an explanation?

As a visual aid, don't think of signal strength as being on a scale of 0% - 100%. Think of it as a number line extending in both negative and positive directions, e.g.

... -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 ...

The middle of the line is 0, which is the ideal "perfect" signal strength (100%). If the signal is too weak, the strength moves in the negative direction, and the fact that it's moving away from 0 and becoming "more negative" makes the signal "too weak". If the signal is too strong, the strength moves in the positive direction, and the fact that it's moving away from 0 and becoming "more positive" makes the signal "too strong". It's a balance: if the strength is in the middle, reception is good, and if it goes too far in either direction, reception is bad.
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post #313 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 02:27 PM
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skib,

Make sure that the Philips 5750 is set to scan for OTA signals (i.e. "antenna" or "air") and not cable.

It's 2014 and you're still paying for television?
 

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post #314 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post
 

 

It never occurred to me that skib might be getting his channels except not in the channel slots (numbers) he's used to.

 

The signal strength test might not be needed if he can confirm that he DOES see the expected channel CONTENT but not on the channel numbers he's used to... they might be "mapped" to diff. ch. #s. Look for station and content, not channel numbers?

 

Here's some info on Mapping Channels in case that turns out to be true.

 

If the content is not there anywhere, then a signal-strength test might help.

 

 

Here's what I did:

1. Turned on the unit/initialization and scanned for channels (in antenna mode). Got 16, with none of the ones I mentioned above.

2. Checked if 2.1, 5.1 etc were still working by plugging in the connector to the TV instead of DVR (didn't touch the antenna). They were. 

3. Switched jack back to the DVR: tried to see if it would work if I manually entered the correct channel # (like 29.1 for 5.1). Didn't work.

4. Played with antenna for a while, managed to get 2.1 working partly, But others channels refused to show up.

5. Flipped antenna jack back to TV. All channels worked correctly.

 

I will do the signal strength test when I get a chance. 

 

- skib

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post #315 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 09:00 PM
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skib,

Are you using a splitter?
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post #316 of 619 Old 12-13-2013, 11:51 PM
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skib,

Are you using a splitter?

 

No splitters. 

 

Some more information:

I hooked up my TV's antenna in to this unit's antenna out (TV pass through). If the unit is off, the TV's able to pick up all channels correctly, its as if there's no box in between. But if I turn on the power, the TV cannot pick up any of the channels in this range. Turning on the unit affects the pass through signal. 

 

- skib

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post #317 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skib View Post

Some more information:

I hooked up my TV's antenna in to this unit's antenna out (TV pass through). If the unit is off, the TV's able to pick up all channels correctly, its as if there's no box in between. But if I turn on the power, the TV cannot pick up any of the channels in this range. Turning on the unit affects the pass through signal. 

 

- skib

I think what Wajo wanted to know was if using the passthru(antenna input to Philips, coax out to TV) and you pulled the power plug on the Philips did you still get TV channels on your TV? The Magnavox DVDRs use a amplified passthru so if the DVR lost power the passthru signal would be greatly attenuated. What you said(if Philips was turned ON you'd get no passthru) makes sense for a modulated channel 3 or 4 output, is that what the Philips is using and if so can it be turned OFF? Kind of surprised it would have a RF modulator unless they are going after the very old tube TV users, modulated RF output is basically always SD and generally only mono audio, very low tech.

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post #318 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 06:44 AM
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"Pulling the plug" won't tell you if the output is amped or not, just if it allows RF pass through. The only real way to tell if there is internal amplification or not is with a SLM.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #319 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

"Pulling the plug" won't tell you if the output is amped or not, just if it allows RF pass through. The only real way to tell if there is internal amplification or not is with a SLM.


Try it. Even digital barely makes it through.

 

edit:

That's how my 515H works.

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post #320 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

"Pulling the plug" won't tell you if the output is amped or not, just if it allows RF pass through. The only real way to tell if there is internal amplification or not is with a SLM.

 

Yes it will.

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post #321 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skib View Post

Some more information:

I hooked up my TV's antenna in to this unit's antenna out (TV pass through). If the unit is off, the TV's able to pick up all channels correctly, its as if there's no box in between. But if I turn on the power, the TV cannot pick up any of the channels in this range. Turning on the unit affects the pass through signal. 

 

- skib

I think what Wajo wanted to know was if using the passthru(antenna input to Philips, coax out to TV) and you pulled the power plug on the Philips did you still get TV channels on your TV? The Magnavox DVDRs use a amplified passthru so if the DVR lost power the passthru signal would be greatly attenuated. What you said(if Philips was turned ON you'd get no passthru) makes sense for a modulated channel 3 or 4 output, is that what the Philips is using and if so can it be turned OFF? Kind of surprised it would have a RF modulator unless they are going after the very old tube TV users, modulated RF output is basically always SD and generally only mono audio, very low tech.

 

These units do not modulate the RF passthrough.

 

I'm trying to get someone with one of these to watch live TV through the coax from Philips to TV (select the TV's ANT input), pull the power cord, and see what the pic looks like when there's no power to the Philips. That will tell us if the Philips" video circit is amplified, like their HDD DVDRs, which *might* help explain whether skib is losing channels because the signal is too strong for an amplified circuit, if the Philips does have such in the first place.

 

Skib could do both tests at once since, if he watches a good live TV channel on his TV''s ANT input, pulls the power cord, and that good channel loses quality, then the Philips video circuit is amplified. In that same unplugged-Philips condition, he should then try to tune the channels he says are missing and see if they now come in OK.

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post #322 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 07:16 AM
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I think  you both could be correct, pulling the plug should indeed tell  if it's amplified but the SLM would be the best way to tell if it's actually gained strength, vs just made up for any internal losses :)

Either way pulling the power plug on the DVR would be a nice test and Wajo has a good point about the passthru signal being too strong, thats not good either.

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post #323 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
 

I think  you both could be correct, pulling the plug should indeed tell  if it's amplified but the SLM would be the best way to tell if it's actually gained strength, vs just made up for any internal losses :)

Either way pulling the power plug on the DVR would be a nice test and Wajo has a good point about the passthru signal being too strong, thats not good either.


I must agree. The amplification is very small. However the pass-through is not passive. So while you might not detect a 1 or 2db gain visually, you can see a 40 to 50db loss. My signal on the 515 to Sony went from 88 to 40 when I pulled the plug. A passive pass-through might lose a little signal, but probably not a visible one.

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post #324 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I must agree. The amplification is very small. However the pass-through is not passive. So while you might not detect a 1 or 2db gain visually, you can see a 40 to 50db loss. My signal on the 515 to Sony went from 88 to 40 when I pulled the plug. A passive pass-through might lose a little signal, but probably not a visible one.

 

The ~1dB amplification might be a small number, but the percent of signal strength is not so small.

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post #325 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 10:47 AM
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The ~1dB amplification might be a small number, but the percent of signal strength is not so small.

 

Woke up this morning and saw all the replies & suggestions, thanks!

 

I did the power plug test (pulling the plug on the DVR, using coax from DVR to TV). For both cases: when the unit is not plugged in, and with the unit plugged in, but the power button off, the TV functions as if it were directly connected to the antenna - I get all channels. When the DVR unit is plugged in and is on, many channels don't show up. but some (like 36.1) work fine. All of these channels seem to be the ones where the virtual channel # (2.1, 5.1 etc) is different from transmitter channel, but I didn't go through every missing channel to confirm. The signal strength test (by unscrewing Antenna-in till its hanging by a thread) doesn't get any additional channels. 

 

If the philips had an amplifier circuit that made the signals stronger, wouldn't the TV lose all the channels when I turned on the TV?

 

Is it possible that the DVR's tuner/amplifier is just sub-standard relative to the TV's tuner? 

 

- skib

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post #326 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by skib View Post
 

Woke up this morning and saw all the replies & suggestions, thanks!

 

I did the power plug test (pulling the plug on the DVR, using coax from DVR to TV). For both cases: when the unit is not plugged in, and with the unit plugged in, but the power button off, the TV functions as if it were directly connected to the antenna - I get all channels. When the DVR unit is plugged in and is on, many channels don't show up. but some (like 36.1) work fine. All of these channels seem to be the ones where the virtual channel # (2.1, 5.1 etc) is different from transmitter channel, but I didn't go through every missing channel to confirm. The signal strength test (by unscrewing Antenna-in till its hanging by a thread) doesn't get any additional channels. 

 

If the philips had an amplifier circuit that made the signals stronger, wouldn't the TV lose all the channels when I turned on the TV?

 

Is it possible that the DVR's tuner/amplifier is just sub-standard relative to the TV's tuner? 

 

Since your unit is acting "starngely," to say the least, unfortunately, your tests will not apply to others as far as amp'd circuit and hang-by-a-thread test.

 

I don't know what your problem could be except a bad video circuit, evidenced by totally "contrary" operation?

 

I would still like someone with a normally operating unit to do the Philips power-pull test while watching live TV on the TV's antenna input (with coax in to Philips and out to TV).

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post #327 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 12:59 PM
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Is it possible that the DVR's tuner/amplifier is just sub-standard relative to the TV's tuner?

Yes. The quality of ATSC tuners varies widely. The tuner in a Zenith DTV conveter box runs circles around the tuner in a ca. 2008 Sony Bravia, as one example.
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post #328 of 619 Old 12-14-2013, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skib View Post

Is it possible that the DVR's tuner/amplifier is just sub-standard relative to the TV's tuner? 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Yes. The quality of ATSC tuners varies widely. The tuner in a Zenith DTV conveter box runs circles around the tuner in a ca. 2008 Sony Bravia, as one example.

@skib
The other possibility is you simply got a bad unit -- not unheard of. Personally I would RMA the unit for another one and start all over. The fact that turning on the power screws up the ATSC signal is a red flag to me. Something is leaking into that circuit that is otherwise passive. I could go with the sub-standard tuner hypothesis if it were not for the power-on interference. My advice = get a new one.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #329 of 619 Old 12-15-2013, 06:36 AM
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New HDR5710 randomly starts fast forward during playback. It is on same antenna connection as an old Philips and a Magnavox DVDR.

Responsiveness during playback very disappointing. Using fast forward, rewind, skip, or replay is much slower and imprecise than with old Philips or any of the Magnavox DVDRs.

The automatic titling of recordings from information from the TV station was a nice idea but...I've always recorded a few minutes before the show thru 10 minutes after the show. The automatic titling grabbed the wrong show name in every recording. The manual titling on the Magnavox MDR533 (and even an updated H2160) worked better for me).

The picture quality is nice, but my TV is only 720P. The improvement is not worth the problems with the HDR5710 for me. I'll return the unit, but I'm hoping firmware updates and future posts from AVS Forum readers will convince me to repurchase or to purchase the new Magnavox TB745H.
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post #330 of 619 Old 12-15-2013, 07:47 AM
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"The picture quality is nice, but my TV is only 720P. The improvement is not worth the problems with the HDR5710 for me. I'll return the unit, but I'm hoping firmware updates and future posts from AVS Forum readers will convince me to repurchase or to purchase the new Magnavox TB745H"
.[/quote] rogers20164

I did go the the website that bestbuy provided for returning my 5710.
I used the label provided. Used all the packing material . Used my own batteries so their batts.were still sealed.

Kelson asked if it could be returned to the store.
It's not sold at the stores yet.
However it's worth a shot......The instructions for returns were for internet buys though..
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