Philips HDR5710/5750 DVRs, Antenna/Cable, Streaming, Int/Ext HDDs, 33TB Storage - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post


These people have been served for the past several years by the funai DVD recorders under the Magnavox name -- they live in this thread in the DVD recorder forum.

 

...Sadly, not as well as they had been served years back by superior versions of the same technology from Pioneer, Polariod and such. (Still hurts.) Or how Panasonic serves the European audience with the DMR-BWT line. (Still hope.) Or Sony in Japan/UK with PS3's Torne/PlayTV. (Still don't know what my point was.)

 

But I forgot that Funai's most recent version of its HDD/DVD box finally put the tuner in there, that makes the product a lot more viable as I understand that market. Those still seem incomplete (and difficult to use) for me without an IR Blaster (Wajo says Funai has been listening, so I'll continue to beg for it -- all you're missing is IR, and IR is still stupidly miles away from being a dead I/O, even the advanced Xbox One carries an IR Blaster!) But I can see why they're calling that marked "covered" and moving on to the new HD OTA recording devices we're talking about here.

 

For $250, though, it feels like something is still missing even after the media player features are factored in. Those people seem to want to replace two or three devices with one device (or finally plug in one after being confused by the two or three and taking them back,) they'll want that DVD or something for the price. Magnavox's might be less though (particularly when it's given the Wal-Mart price arrangement.)

 

But in any case, I'm glad somebody is still trying things out in this market.

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post #32 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 12:29 AM
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...Sadly, not as well as those people had been served years back by superior versions of the same technology from Panasonic, Polariod and such.
Polaroid???
Superior???

Seriously???

Perhaps it's just late, you're tired and really meant to type Pioneer.
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post #33 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post


Polaroid???
Superior???

Seriously???

Perhaps it's just late, you're tired and really meant to type Pioneer.

 

Polaroid's one had a TV Guide scheduler, did it not? 

 

But I take it that I'm being too harsh on the Magnavox MDR515H/MDR537H. Fair enough, I haven't used one (...I just love my old Panasonic DMR-EH75V and its lovely IR Blaster so much!) I had a disappointing experience with one of the earlier Magnavox decks (not a DVR, it was a DVD/VCR unit,) but I haven't tried the current HDD recorder model, seems like it has made strides. And hey, they're still here doing what nobody else is.

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post #34 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Polaroid???
Superior???

Seriously???

Perhaps it's just late, you're tired and really meant to type Pioneer.

...or Toshiba. My RD-XS35 still works, and even despite the TVGOS rug being pulled out from under us, it's still a great way to make quick and good DVD with a pretty customizable menu from an SD TV, miniDV or VHS source.

For HD, though, I'm HTPC.
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post #35 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 07:35 AM
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Maybe this should be relabeled the F&P thread;
http://www.funaiworld.com/company/group.html
http://www.funaiworld.com/pressroom/2012/120111.html
http://www.funai.us/about-us/
Quote:
P&F USA, Inc. is a subsidiary of Funai, Corp (Osaka, Japan) specializing in Philips branded LCD TV and Video products. P & F USA was established in 2008 when Funai entered into a brand licensing agreement with Philips, with Funai responsible for the resources, distribution, marketing and sales activities of Philips' consumer television business in the United States and Canada. Funai is a global corporation engaged in the development, manufacture, marketing and distribution of audio-visual devices, such as VCR, DVD players, DVD recorders, TV, LCD TV, PDP TV, projectors, etc.
less

Wajo, you might want to add these links for the service aspect of Maggy/Funai;
http://www.encompassparts.com/pnfusa
http://www.encompassparts.com/pnfusa/contact.asp

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post #36 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 07:52 AM
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On a separate note, how about someone taking a shot at this?;
https://portal.pnf-usa.net/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2f

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post #37 of 629 Old 11-10-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Maybe this should be relabeled the F&P thread;
http://www.funaiworld.com/company/group.html
http://www.funaiworld.com/pressroom/2012/120111.html
http://www.funai.us/about-us/
Quote:
P&F USA, Inc. is a subsidiary of Funai, Corp (Osaka, Japan) specializing in Philips branded LCD TV and Video products. P & F USA was established in 2008 when Funai entered into a brand licensing agreement with Philips, with Funai responsible for the resources, distribution, marketing and sales activities of Philips' consumer television business in the United States and Canada. Funai is a global corporation engaged in the development, manufacture, marketing and distribution of audio-visual devices, such as VCR, DVD players, DVD recorders, TV, LCD TV, PDP TV, projectors, etc.
less

Wajo, you might want to add these links for the service aspect of Maggy/Funai;
http://www.encompassparts.com/pnfusa
http://www.encompassparts.com/pnfusa/contact.asp

 

There will likely be lots more info posted here once there is a product for sale, Philips/Funai acknowledge their products with docs, manual, etc., and someone could theoretically want parts right away. Until then, I think your links will do.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

On a separate note, how about someone taking a shot at this?;
https://portal.pnf-usa.net/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2f

 

That site has no way to sign up and get a user name and password. Sort of like the Funai list of docs and manuals for all their units (Funaiport) that was accessible for a short time until they made it accessible only to Funai people... it's now "Forbidden." They don't like consumers knowing ANYTHING about what they're planning or doing... must be one of those "Kunji-lackainfo" things! I've been struggling with that for almost 7 years!



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post #38 of 629 Old 11-15-2013, 01:11 PM
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Don't hold your breath on cable card. Anything in that price range better have 2 tuners and at least PSIP guide capability. Anyone who wants a single tuner box that programs like a VCR can buy an iView or HomeWorx for $50.

Did you also notice the lack of a TV volume control on the remote.

The question that I have to ask is are these going to be reliable? My iView is great when it works, but it doesn't always work! It will miss recordings on channels that it doesn't like the PSIP for, it will hang up in the middle of recordings and have to be restarted. I don't recommend the iView unless you want a DVR hobby. I don't think the HomeWorx, or other clones, are any better. So, if these Philips/Magnavox boxes will record reliably without a lot of messing around I can see them being worth $150-$200. The $250-$300 price point is steep, especially since I paid $300 for my DTVpal DVR almost 4 year ago.

It's 2014 and you're still paying for television?
 

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post #39 of 629 Old 11-15-2013, 02:54 PM
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It seems that most of these third-party DVR manufacturers aren't interested in CableCard support, probably because it takes a lot of time and money to configure the product to accept one and obey its restrictions. Going to that amount of trouble is probably seen as an excessive expenditure, because the market for third-party cable DVRs isn't very big, what with TiVo dominating that market. If you're already paying for cable, the simplest DVR solution is to also pay for the cable company's DVR, and Joe Sixpack likes simplicity, which leaves little market share for alternatives. As such, it wouldn't be a surprise if these are OTA/clear QAM only.
True. Of course, the easy way around that, not only for these Magnavox and Philips boxes but for any would-be DVR manufacturer, would be to support a standalone tuner that's already dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's for CableCARD support, such as the HDHomeRun Prime. Just put an Ethernet port on the box and HDHR drivers in the firmware and be done with it!

Unfortunately, most of these third-party DVR manufacturers have bad cases of "not-invented-here" syndrome too, so they won't even consider something so obvious. Support someone else's tuner? Horrors!
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post #40 of 629 Old 11-15-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

if these Philips/Magnavox boxes will record reliably without a lot of messing around I can see them being worth $150-$200. The $250-$300 price point is steep, especially since I paid $300 for my DTVpal DVR almost 4 year ago.
The CM-7500 will be out soon. Dual tuner, full guide, base model = $250, add any external USB HDD of your choosing 500GB - 3TB to fit your needs and budget -- your choice. See here and here

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post #41 of 629 Old 11-15-2013, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

True. Of course, the easy way around that, not only for these Magnavox and Philips boxes but for any would-be DVR manufacturer, would be to support a standalone tuner that's already dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's for CableCARD support, such as the HDHomeRun Prime. Just put an Ethernet port on the box and HDHR drivers in the firmware and be done with it!

That sounds like far from a cost-effective design structure. Not only would it probably be more expensive to get a working setup (HDHR+DVR+HDD) that way, but it's foolish to design products that rely on other companies' products for critical functionality. Just look at the Sony DHG units: Sony made them beholden to TVGoS, and now that the service is gone, DHGs are doorstops. Besides, the tuners aren't the problems with these units: the problem is the firmware that doesn't know how to react properly to the things it receives with its tuner. tongue.gif
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post #42 of 629 Old 11-15-2013, 08:06 PM
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Any ideas on why there's no optical disc burner on these?

The DVD burner on the SD Philips/Magnavox recorders seems such a gimmie, it seems odd these new models lack something similar.
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post #43 of 629 Old 11-15-2013, 09:58 PM
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A DVD burner wouldn't be much use on a unit that records ATSC HDTV, as a single hour of many 720p stations would fill a DVD5, and an hour on most 1080i stations wouldn't even fit. DVD9s are still pretty expensive (and in some places even more expensive than BD-Rs, despite their inferior capacity), which makes them a poor solution, too. You need to transcode to H.264 to make DVD archiving practical, and that's beyond the scope of a DVR.
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post #44 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 06:36 AM
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That would be if it was recording HD which it couldn't since DVD's are SD. wink.gif
Down-converting to SD on a standard DVD recorder would be the only workable solution thanks to Hollywood's greed. Just like the predecessors had, but this time with a user friendly menu, not one that had you jump back and forth to finalize a recording and all the other what should of been unnecessary steps.

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post #45 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

The CM-7500 will be out soon. Dual tuner, full guide, base model = $250, add any external USB HDD of your choosing 500GB - 3TB to fit your needs and budget -- your choice. See here and here

Thanks for the info. I had heard the rumors that Channel Master was partnering with EchoStar on a new DVR, but hadn't kept up. The space for OTA capable DVRs seems to be becoming competitive. That's another reason why I have to say that these Philips/Magnavox boxes look over priced to me. Single tuner without guide, even with the internal 1TB drive, needs to be under $200.

It's 2014 and you're still paying for television?
 

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post #46 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 11:30 AM
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That would be if it was recording HD which it couldn't since DVD's are SD. wink.gif
Not sure what you mean there. DVD Video format is strictly SD, but AVCHD format was designed to put HD content on a DVD-R or DL. I think just about every BD player sold will play AVCHD on a DVD-R. In addition, you can burn BDMV format to either a DVD-R or DL -- so-called BD-5 or BD-9 disks. But fewer BD players will play BDMV format on anything other than BD-R.

Either way, burning HD video to DVD is dumb. HD belongs on BD-R.

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post #47 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

Thanks for the info. I had heard the rumors that Channel Master was partnering with EchoStar on a new DVR . . . That's another reason why I have to say that these Philips/Magnavox boxes look over priced to me. Single tuner without guide, even with the internal 1TB drive, needs to be under $200.
I've said that from the beginning.

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post #48 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 12:21 PM
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Not sure what you mean there. DVD Video format is strictly SD
Quote:
DVD-Video uses either MPEG-2 compression at up to 9.8 Mbit/s (9,800 kbit/s) or MPEG-1 compression at up to 1.856 Mbit/s (1,856 kbit/s). DVD-Video supports video with a bit depth of 8-bits per color YCbCr with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling.
At 29.97 frames per second, interlaced (commonly used in regions with 60 Hz image scanning frequency): 720 × 480 pixels (same resolution as D-1)

Taken from here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video

Many don't realize a DVD is only 480i as in NTSC or Standard Definition, not 480p or 1080p with players that advertise progressive output (which are just about all of them now). It has to be scaled to get that. My point is, having a DVD recorder would at least allow external recordings of programs at SD resolution which is what you wind up with the original Funai's.
Record on HDD,
Edit within the DVR,
Burn edited disc to archive. Just as you can with the existing models with the hoaky GUI.

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post #49 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 01:55 PM
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@ videobruce

You're confusing "DVD" and "DVD-Video". A DVD is just a storage device and can hold any type of files you put on it, as long as their size is below 4.7 GB. DVD-Video is a specific type of filesystem that stores VOB containers with MPEG-2 video + LPCM, MP2, or Dolby Digital audio. The DVD-Video standard forbids video resolutions above 720x576 (for PAL), but a data DVD can hold any type of information you want to put on it, including HD video files. I was assuming that if a HD DVR contained a DVD burner that it would be smart enough to burn data discs, not DVD-Video discs.
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Either way, burning HD video to DVD is dumb. HD belongs on BD-R.

I would dispute that generalisation. A DVD5 has enough room to store a few hours of HD AVC content, and if you don't need more space than that, using a BD-R would be wasteful. Video files, whether SD or HD, belong on whatever disc type has enough capacity to hold them, and a BD-R is not always necessary.
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post #50 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

A DVD is just a storage device and can hold any type of files you put on it, as long as their size is below 4.7 GB..

Exactly. Just as the word Versatile in it's name implies.

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normal on a two month old set..
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post #51 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 05:21 PM
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You're confusing "DVD" and "DVD-Video".
When the term "DVD" is mentioned I think of it as a video format, not a storage method. Just like the term 'VHS', yes it's magnetic recording tape that can be used for anything, but it refers to a specific format.

Besides, it wouldn't be practical to use a DVD optical disc to record HD material.

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post #52 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 05:41 PM
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What other consumer-level uses are there for VHS tapes? A VCR can only record audio and video onto them, and I don't know of any devices capable of using VHS tapes other than VCRs. DVDs, in contrast, can store other types of data besides audio and video, and they can also store audio and video in formats that DVD-Video players can't decode. Most Blu-ray players, however, can decode those formats, and you can fit ~4 H.264 HDTV episodes on a DVD5, which is quite practical, considering DVD-Video discs typically store 4 SDTV episodes on a DVD9 with H.262. Transcoding, therefore, makes all the difference.

This doesn't really help with gastrof's question, though, since a DVR at this price point isn't going to have a hardware encoder, and a hardware encoder would likely be less efficient than x264, anyway.
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post #53 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 07:01 PM
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Anyone heard of DVHS.......;)

HD on VHS :D

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post #54 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Any ideas on why there's no optical disc burner on these?

The DVD burner on the SD Philips/Magnavox recorders seems such a gimmie, it seems odd these new models lack something similar.
Because if they had a burner they would not be a DVR but a BD Recorder and that would jack up the price to $500. Plus, in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares about burning TV shows to disks any more -- there are too many other better options.

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post #55 of 629 Old 11-16-2013, 09:50 PM
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Just found links to bestbuy.com for the new Philips HD DVR models.  They are both $30 less than the listings on Amazon (however Amazon isn't selling them yet).  Unfortunately, the Best Buy listings give VERY little information beyond what we already know.

 

Philips - Digital Video Recorder - HDR5710/F7   500GB model for  $249.99 (online only)

Philips - Digital Video Recorder - HDR5750/F7   1TB model for  $299.99 (online only)

 

Not sure why Best Buy put them in the Home Security category.  They should be in this category with the Roku's and Tivo's.  I plan on sending Best Buy a message.

FYI...

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post #56 of 629 Old 11-17-2013, 05:49 AM
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Anyone heard of DVHS.......;)

HD on VHS :D

I have a JVC and two Mitsubishi units. Want them? As for tape, remember the DAT fears? And DAT is still used for data backups in a lot of computer centers.

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post #57 of 629 Old 11-17-2013, 07:00 AM
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Anyone heard of DVHS.......wink.gif
HD on VHS biggrin.gif
I was going to mention S-VHS, but didn't think it was necessary. I forgot about D-VHS. Kinda reinforces what I said.
.
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Plus, in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares about burning TV shows to disks any more -- there are too many other better options.
I will strongly disagree with that. HDD storage is great until the drive takes a dump (for numerous reasons). Then what? Especially with these 2, 3 & 4 TB drives. A lot of data crammed into one device.
.
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Not sure why Best Buy put them in the Home Security category. They should be in this category with the Roku's and Tivo's.
Whomever did so, probably thinks they are CCTV DVR's. wink.gif

.

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post #58 of 629 Old 11-17-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I will strongly disagree with that. HDD storage is great until the drive takes a dump (for numerous reasons). Then what? Especially with these 2, 3 & 4 TB drives. A lot of data crammed into one device.
You may disagree and your concerns are valid -- but that doesn't change the overall market. People don't care and are not buying disk-burning boxes which is why DVD Recorders are on their last gasp and BD recorders have never been (and never will be) offered in the US.

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post #59 of 629 Old 11-17-2013, 01:23 PM
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BD recorders are unavailable in the US because of DMCA pressure, not solely because of a lack of interest. Japan has BD-R recorders that serve the same function for HD as the Magnavox DVD recorders do for SD.
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post #60 of 629 Old 11-17-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

BD recorders are unavailable in the US because of DMCA pressure, not solely because of a lack of interest. Japan has BD-R recorders that serve the same function for HD as the Magnavox DVD recorders do for SD.

...and Australia and Europe, too, right?
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