Philips HDR5710/5750 DVRs, Antenna/Cable, Streaming, Int/Ext HDDs, 33TB Storage - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 710 Old 07-15-2015, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
I have yet to find anyone ever post an objective, quantified review of a DVR tuner, because it's almost impossible to make one. All reviewers can do is compare the performance of one tuner against the performance of another tuner in their reception environments. While that can be helpful if readers have at least one of the reviewed tuners, most tuner assessments are pretty worthless, unless you live next door to the reivewer. There's really no way to know how a particular tuner is going to perform in your reception area until you buy it. Such is the curse of OTA reception. It's a fickle beast.

Now for my own totally reasoned and objective baseless tuner assessment, I can't imagine these DVRs have tuners made of rainbows and unicorns such that they are worth paying an extra $200 over an iView or Homeworx.
I will admit right up front that I am not an expert in this matter, however, having used stand alone DVR's for about a decade now I am experienced. I first used them back in the analog days (Panni's back then) and then switched to Maggi's when DTV came along. I cut cord and went OTA when the worthless FCC allowed cablevision to scramble basic cable and require STB's. I get what I would call very good to excellent OTA reception on my three HDTV's (Pioneer, Panasonic and Sharp) and my Maggi DVR's.

As to the reason why I would prefer a true DVR over Homeworx (as near as I can tell iView is not for OTA), Homeworx is nothing more than a converter box with a USB port. It has no memory what so ever and has very limited software, of course it is cheap.

Your comment about tuner reviews certainly doe not seem correct to me. When I wanted to know how the tuner was on the Maggi's I simply posted here and other OTA users told me how it compared to the tuners they were using.

I hope you can understand that your point of view is not universal.

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post #692 of 710 Old 07-15-2015, 06:01 PM
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I have both a iView and this Philips and while they both do record OTA and clear Qam cable the Philips is a more polished product. The iView and clones are best described as "project boxes". They are quirky, prone to missing events, not very user friendly and just plain cheep. Now cheap is what lots of people want, and the iViews are nice in that you can easily offload recordings to a standard PC, you can also add a unlimited number of HDDs to a iView. That said I hardly ever use mine, got tired of always fighting with it and missed recordings. I do occasionally use my Philips and I consider it money well spent. Now I only paid $99 when Nebraska Furniture was blowing out their supply, much more and I would have probably looked at a CM+ or now that Tivos have come down so much in price I'd probably have picked up a second Tivo. My main DVR is a Tivo and truthfully it puts all the others to shame(although I haven't personally used a CM+ but have read lots about it).
Like the other DVRs other than the iView the Philips has build in WiFi and a HDD. You can't add WiFi to a iView and you must purchase a separate USB HDD for it.
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post #693 of 710 Old 07-15-2015, 09:02 PM
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I'm not saying that the Philips offers no benefits over the iView/Homeworx, as it's probably less buggy. My point is that for about the same price you could get a DVR+ and have two tuners, so there's no reason for the Philips to cost as much as it does when it already has a major drawback when compared to the DVR+.
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post #694 of 710 Old 07-15-2015, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
I'm not saying that the Philips offers no benefits over the iView/Homeworx, as it's probably less buggy. My point is that for about the same price you could get a DVR+ and have two tuners, so there's no reason for the Philips to cost as much as it does when it already has a major drawback when compared to the DVR+.
I have considered DVR+ (although it is also expensive) but I need to learn more about it. Their information webpage does not seem to have a detailed specification sheet (unless I missed it). I will check out the thread on this forum to see if it answers my questions. I have to go to bed, it is after midnight.

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post #695 of 710 Old 07-18-2015, 07:26 AM
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OK, so even though I have come to the game late I now have HDR5710 that I got from through Amazon (one of those fulfilled by Amazon deals it was actually sold by Northstar Electronics). The unit was sold as new, but clearly it had been out of the box and someone did some setup on the unit. It has a Radio Shack sales sticker on the box. The unit says it was manufactured in September 2013 so this baby has been around for a while. Even though it did not wake up as a truly new unit I was able to get it up an running without any significant problems (I think these units are made bu Funai and their menu / programing structure is very similar to the Maggi DVR's that I have which, of course, are also made by Funai). Since I will use the unit for basic time shifting of broadcast TV I have two basic questions about features on this unit that differ from the Maggi's.

1. The manual says this unit will receive WiFi signals. Our wireless router is just off of the family room where our video system is so there is a strong wireless signal in the family room. The only thing I would use this feature for is to download software updates. I went to the Philips website, however, there does not appear to be any software updates for the 5710. I am wondering if I miss something and there are software updates?

2. For me the biggest difference for this DVR is that it records HDTV and I can add external storage. I am thinking of getting at least one 4TB external HDD (assuming they are not too outrageous in price). The last time I bought an external HDD it was a 1TB Seagate in 2008. Any recommendations for reliable external HDD's that will work well with this unit? I have one requirement that might be a problem. Because of the way that the spacing is on my lowboy shelving system that I use for my video system it would be best if I could have the external HDD sitting horizontally instead of vertically.

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post #696 of 710 Old 07-18-2015, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Help files for the 5710 / 5750 are here.

1. To set up WiFi, see pg 49 in manual. Then, you can access 3 of the 4 net services installed via dedicated buttons on the remote for Netflix, Vudu and YouTube. You can also access all 4 net services, incl. CinemaNow, in two other ways: 1, via the right-bottom corner of the OK circle labeled NetTV, or 2. via the Home > NetTV option.

2. See my experience with external HDDs and flash/jump drives here... it seems any HDD or flash/jump drive over 32GB size will work (YMMV). HDD mfgrs state that their HDDs can be used upside down or vertically (since many have heads on top and bottom of platters)... see Seagate statement here.

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post #697 of 710 Old 07-20-2015, 06:53 AM
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I discovered late yesteryear that my "new" 5710 has the rewind problem (it goes to the beginning of the file when I push rewind). Has anyone figured out what actually causes this since apparently only some units have this problem? Wajo, You said one or your three units has the problem. Do you know if it is the unit (the actual box) or is it the remote that has the problem? I find it very interesting that you say the unit with the problem depends on location. What is different about the two locations? In particular what other gear is around the unit in the two different locations?

I would really like to figure this out since rewind is very important to me. I use the unit almost exclusively for time shifting OTA broadcast shows. We watch them and delete them. For this reason (unlike if you archive programs) I do not edit out commercials. I just skip through them as we watch the show. Of course, sometimes the skip over shoots the beginning of the next scene after the commercials and I have to rewind to the start of the scene, so not having a rewind function will really slow me down when watching shows that we have recorded.

Does switching the remote code stop the problem?

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post #698 of 710 Old 07-20-2015, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALP View Post
I discovered late yesteryear that my "new" 5710 has the rewind problem (it goes to the beginning of the file when I push rewind). Has anyone figured out what actually causes this since apparently only some units have this problem? Wajo, You said one or your three units has the problem. Do you know if it is the unit (the actual box) or is it the remote that has the problem? I find it very interesting that you say the unit with the problem depends on location. What is different about the two locations? In particular what other gear is around the unit in the two different locations?

I would really like to figure this out since rewind is very important to me. I use the unit almost exclusively for time shifting OTA broadcast shows. We watch them and delete them. For this reason (unlike if you archive programs) I do not edit out commercials. I just skip through them as we watch the show. Of course, sometimes the skip over shoots the beginning of the next scene after the commercials and I have to rewind to the start of the scene, so not having a rewind function will really slow me down when watching shows that we have recorded.

Does switching the remote code stop the problem?
I haven't found any specific reason for my one unit REWinding OK or to beginning dep. on where I use it. We didn't use REW on that unit, instead we would use the Replay button to incrementally move backwards from an overshoot... it has several time settings that might suit your needs? The bad unit was in our LR system where we had several other DVDRs in line, but that shouldn't affect playback. I didn't change remote codes when I moved it to the Bdrm but that might be a thing to try. I also didn't do extensive testing to see if I could find an answer.

Otherwise, I suspect that the REW error is why your unit appears to be prev. used. I can't say the source of the problem will ever be found so it might be prudent for you to return your unit... a pain, I know?

* * * * * * *

Update: I did some tests on 2 of my 3 5710's to see if I can find any reason for the REW problem. I recorded one of my OTA antenna stations that was "pixelating" (macroblock smears) and found that show exhibits the problem at any REW speed... goes back to 0:00:00 even on REW speed 1.

I played other titles on that same machine that showed NO pixelating/smearing and they REW normally at any speed.

I also tried FF and that same bad title would stop FF randomly. I could get it to move again by pressing the FF button again to up the FF speed to the next number.

Although my tests seem to suggest a FF/REW "sensitivity" to PQ, these are still just "cursory" tests and not conclusive by any means.

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Last edited by wajo; 07-20-2015 at 09:22 AM.
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post #699 of 710 Old 07-20-2015, 11:55 AM
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Do you not have a "skip back x seconds" button on the remote? That's a much more reliable way to back up than trying to rewind, as it's technically impossible to rewind digital video under any circumstance, as digital video compression methods only allow playback in one direction. "Rewinding" on a DVR pretty much equates to searching for the previous keyframe over and over at various rates, and this tends to be buggy. My DVR often refuses to rewind MPEG-4 videos and instead jumps back to the beginning of the file, too, especially if I try to rewind faster than 2X speed.
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post #700 of 710 Old 07-20-2015, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
I haven't found any specific reason for my one unit REWinding OK or to beginning dep. on where I use it. We didn't use REW on that unit, instead we would use the Replay button to incrementally move backwards from an overshoot... it has several time settings that might suit your needs? The bad unit was in our LR system where we had several other DVDRs in line, but that shouldn't affect playback. I didn't change remote codes when I moved it to the Bdrm but that might be a thing to try. I also didn't do extensive testing to see if I could find an answer.

Otherwise, I suspect that the REW error is why your unit appears to be prev. used. I can't say the source of the problem will ever be found so it might be prudent for you to return your unit... a pain, I know?

* * * * * * *

Update: I did some tests on 2 of my 3 5710's to see if I can find any reason for the REW problem. I recorded one of my OTA antenna stations that was "pixelating" (macroblock smears) and found that show exhibits the problem at any REW speed... goes back to 0:00:00 even on REW speed 1.

I played other titles on that same machine that showed NO pixelating/smearing and they REW normally at any speed.

I also tried FF and that same bad title would stop FF randomly. I could get it to move again by pressing the FF button again to up the FF speed to the next number.

Although my tests seem to suggest a FF/REW "sensitivity" to PQ, these are still just "cursory" tests and not conclusive by any means.
I did some experimenting today as well. First, I found that changing the remote code has no effect. Second, I will have to do some rearranging to take the unit to another location, so I have not tried that yet. I did recorded an OTA program that I would describe as having perfect PQ as near as I can tell. As I expected the rewind problem was still there. I then discovered something that I did not expect. If I press the rewind button very quickly a second or third time the unit rewinds at the faster rewind speeds (2 and 3) in a normal manner. I would not call this completely normal rewind behavior since I had to press the rewind button very quickly or Rewind 1 engages and sends the program back to the beginning. I also checked that the unit had normal replay and skip behavior. While it is interesting that it will rewind normally at speeds 2 and 3 (I did not try rewind speeds 4 and 5) I think that using the replay button is a much safer approach to backing the recording up just a little.

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post #701 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 12:25 PM
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I am moving forward with my 5710 and have just found and bought a new (it will probably be sort of new like my 5710) 5750 on Amazon for $219 (I paid $249 for the 5710). I also bought a 4TB external HDD (Seagate) and just tested it with the 5710 and everything works just as it is suppose to. Which leads me to a question about recording a program on one machine and playback of that program on another machine. When the 5750 gets here I will use it in our main video system and use the 5710 upstairs with our bedroom TV. There will be occasions when I will record two different programs (one on each of the units) but we will want to watch both programs on the main video system downstairs. When this happened in the past with my Maggi DVR's I simply burned off the program recorded upstairs to a disc and played it downstairs in another Maggi DVR. Obviously, I cannot do that with the 5750/5710 combo. What are my alternatives? I really do not want to have to disconnect the 5710 from the upstairs TV and carry it downstairs to the main video system. If this question has been asked and answered in the previous 700 posts please point me to the right post. Thanks again for all of the help I get from this forum.

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post #702 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I was not successful in recording to one external 5710 HDD and playing it on another 5710.

In the help file on External HDDs, I wrote this:

"I was not successful in using my noted USB-HDD on one DVR then trying to play those titles on a 2nd DVR. The Title List was blank, and tryng to set a timer program resulted in a message to Register the drive first. Going to the Media Manager menu showed the drive was not recognized in that 2nd machine. I did NOT try to use UFS Explorer to delete the "Register" file on the external drive to see what a 2nd machine would do with that... or replace the Register file with one from another HDD for a specific machine... or try reading the Register file and seeing if there was a line item that could be changed, like unit SN."

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post #703 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 12:40 PM
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Unless I'm mistaken, you don't have many options. The HDD is encrypted, so you can't copy the recordings to another device. Unless you can disconnect the HDD from one DVR and plug it into the other one, moving the whole DVR is all you can do.
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post #704 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, you don't have many options. The HDD is encrypted, so you can't copy the recordings to another device. Unless you can disconnect the HDD from one DVR and plug it into the other one, moving the whole DVR is all you can do.
Once again, you can copy the 5710/5750 files to a PC, as mentioned here. I didn't put any further effort into finding apps to edit and play those files on the PC.

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post #705 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 12:55 PM
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Being able to copy the files from the HDD is pointless if they're encrypted and unusable, though...
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post #706 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 02:42 PM
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Guys, I doubt that this DVR actually encrypts the files. It simply records them in a unique format that the average PC does not have the software to recognize. It is, however, clear that the DVR imprints each external HDD with a unique ID that it will only accept files from an HDD that has the proper ID. The question is does it also imprint each file with an ID? If so then it means moving the DVR unit itself is the only solution. If not then a program that allows you to see and move the files to your PC should also allow you to move the files to another external DVR that has been imprinted by the second DVR. Thus making shuffling files from one DVR to the other possible.

Wajo, It is too bad that the guys you could help with this are not willing to help.

Aleron, You have suggested the CM DVR+ to me. I am reluctant to go there because it does not have an RF pass thru. I do not want to have to turn on a DVR just to watch live TV like the news. Also you cannot daisy chain DVR's without a an RF passthru. However, if DVR+ handled its external HDD's in a less obtrusive manner it might cause me to reconsider the DVR+ . The CM website and literature do not convey much information about using external HDD's. Do you know how large of an HDD the DVR+ will accept, do you know if the DVR+ "registers" each external HDD?

I wanted to do a multi quote, but I could not seem to get it to work. Can someone please tell me how too do a multi quote?

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post #707 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Alp, for a multi-quote, click the Multi-Quote button on the 1st post you'd like to quote, then go to next post and click the Quote button. You can multi-quote several posts as long as you only click the Quote button on the last one.

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post #708 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 04:32 PM
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Alp, for a multi-quote, click the Multi-Quote button on the 1st post you'd like to quote, then go to next post and click the Quote button. You can multi-quote several posts as long as you only click the Quote button on the last one.
I see, said the blind man!

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post #709 of 710 Old 07-25-2015, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ALP View Post
Aleron, You have suggested the CM DVR+ to me. I am reluctant to go there because it does not have an RF pass thru. I do not want to have to turn on a DVR just to watch live TV like the news. Also you cannot daisy chain DVR's without a an RF passthru.
Why not use a splitter? My DVR doesn't do RF passthrough, either, but my TV still works.


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Do you know how large of an HDD the DVR+ will accept, do you know if the DVR+ "registers" each external HDD?
The latest DVR+ firmware fixed a bug that used to cause the DVR+ to only use 2TB of any drive you connected; since the fix I think there's at least one confirmation of 3 or 4 TB drives working, but I'm not sure anyone knows what the maximum size is.

The DVR+ does not register or encrypt its HDDs; it only formats them to an ext (Linux) filesystem in a special way. You can move HDDs from one DVR+ to another AFAIK, as long as both drives have been formatted by a DVR+. The only thing you can't do is format the drive with Linux and then try to use it in the DVR+. It will ask you to reformat if you do that.
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post #710 of 710 Old 07-26-2015, 12:19 PM
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I did the test a few weeks ago. let me fire up the Linux machine and do some more testing. I will try to answer you questions soon.
Scott
Scott, Are you still there? Did you ever fire up the Linux machine and do more testing? I would very interested to know if by using a Linux machine and your Hex editor you can copy the files that a 5750 (or 5710) unit puts onto an external HDD (or memory stick) to your Linux machine and then copy those files to a different extremal HDD that has been registered by a second 5750. I would want to see if those files that were created by the first 5750 would play on the second 5750. Thus allowing one to move files from one unit to another unit. I have never used Linux, however, I have a fairly powerful custom built PC. I think it should be possible for me to instal Linux on my machine and learn how to use a Hex editor to make file swapping possible. I would be very interested in anything you can tell me about your experiencing with your Linux machine and the files from your 5750 (or 5710).

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