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Philips HDR5710/5750 DVRs, Antenna/Cable, Streaming, Int/Ext HDDs, 33TB Storage

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#1 · (Edited)
Philips HDR5710 & 5750 HD DVRs
Single Tuner for Antenna & Unscrambled Cable
Wired & Built-in Wireless Streaming
Internal HDD + 8 External USB-HDDs (EHDD) or Flash/Thumb (FT) Drives
Up To 33TB Storage


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Index:
Help Files

Internal Pics for Techies
User Manual (2.8MB pdf)
Philips Support (Docs, FAQ, Contact, Product Reg.)
5710 Product Page at Philips
5750 Product Page at Philips

New 5750 $175-250, Used>New, Amazon

5710 / 5750 Features:
  • 5710 & 5750 are high-def (HD) Digital Video Recorders (DVR) with Hard Disk Drive (HDD). No disc burner.
  • Single NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner for tuning and recording OTA/antenna and unscrambled digital cable channels, and tuning but not recording analog cable channels. Single-channel changes in 1½-sec, ½-sec multi-channel moves holding CH+/-, then 1½ -sec to pic on final channel.
  • Wired or built-in wireless streaming, no adapter needed. OEM-installed channels so far: Netflix, Vudu, YouTube, CinemaNow.
  • Internal OEM HDD (500GB or 1TB) + up to 8 user-furnished external USB-HDDs (EHDD) or fast* flash/thumb (FT) drives, 32GB-4TB each (6TB in new 86x models), connect/disconnect/swap one at a time, for up to 33TB storage. Copy/move titles back and forth at will. EHDD-FT is tied to machine that initializes ("registers") it and not movable to other machines unless reinitialized. EHDD-FT drives can be deregistered without the drive attached so a "dead" drive won't tie up one of the 8 registered slots. See this help file for more info.
    *Faster-writing FT drives are usually the larger capacity ones, like USB 3.0 PNY Turbo 128GB=130MB/s vs 45MB/s for 32GB model. Typ HDD write speed =125MB/s. Faster writing generally also means faster reading.
  • Both drives accessible. Record to or play titles from either internal HDD or EHDD/FT drive, menu selectable.
  • Titles NOT split between internal/external HDDs, as TiVo does with its "striping." If you disconnect an external drive from TiVo, you lose access to all titles and, if the external goes bad, you lose everything, internal and external. With this Philips DVR, you get complete titles on either internal or external drive, whichever you choose to record to, and you can disconnect and reconnect external drives w/o losing anything.
  • Linux OS, XFS file system, .TTS files. Filesystem info here.
  • High-speed dub (HSD) to copy or move titles between internal HDD and EHDD or FT drive. Create genre HDDs.
  • Real-time copy titles to ext. DVDR, PC, etc. via YWR RCA out w/HDMI disconnected or set to any format except Auto (default) or 1080p
  • Dolby TrueHD (DD5.1+DD7.1+stereo multichannel). DD7.1 via HDMI v1.3 or later cable/component circuits (multichannel linear PCM via earlier HDMI circuits). TrueHD 7.1 not broadcast yet but some Bluray movies might have it?
  • Front panel has no display, only small green power LED, red rec LED, and IR receiver button.
  • Connections on back: RF/Coax in/out, 1x HDMI out, 1x YWR RCA out, 1x USB, 1x Ethernet. No line inputs.
  • Coax passthru with unit on or off for watching one channel with downstream TV/cable box tuner while recording diff. channel.
  • Tunes all channels in numerical sequence, i.e., standard integrated HDTV tuner.
  • Skip single channels or subchannels.
  • Retains antenna and cable channel memory separately so you can switch sources w/o rescanning (with A/B switch?).
  • "Weak Channel Installation" for manually adding OTA/antenna channels missed by auto-scan, e.g, for rotating/directional antenna(s). Retains channels from 1st auto-scan in prime direction.
  • Four Favorite Channel groups for easy access. Set up with Menu, access on live TV with OK/Back buttons.
  • 100 timer programs user-set with 5-field menu, single future date or intervals (M-F, Every Sun, etc.). No multi-day Guide.
  • Automatically titles recorded antenna and digital cable shows from broadcast stream. Accuracy depends on source and show/clock timing.
  • Edit title names (max. 60 char.) after recording with on-screen character menu.
  • Max. 2,000 titles on each HDD in Title List with 8 titles per page. Scroll single titles, CH+/- for page moves.
    Note:
    If you open the Title List menu after power-on while viewing an analog cable channel thru HDMI, the menu might freeze for 5-10 sec, change to blue screen with "No signal," then revert to live TV. If this happens, change to a digital channel before opening the menu again. Once you do that, the Title List will work properly when on any channel, until next power cycle. This only happens if you have cable TV and are viewing an analog channel thru HDMI (not YWR RCA). If you're on cable or OTA and have trouble deleting a problematic title in the normal way, you can delete it using the "Delete Multiple Titles" option. With that option, you don't click OK on a specific title until AFTER you open the Title Menu, press Menu button to open side menu, select "Delete Multiple Tiles," THEN click OK on titles which only puts a check,ark on those titles... you're not acting on titles directly.
  • Max. single-title rec time = 8 hours.
  • Max. manual-timed rec ("one-touch") = 4 hours (time added w/Rec button in 15-min. increments).
  • "Active" CC: Has its own analog/digital CC decoder so it's independent of your TV's CC options. Automatically records digital CC, if present, while analog CC (cable) can only be displayed since this DVR can't record analog channels. Does NOT get burned into video as in previous Mag HDD/DVD recorders. Program providers are responsible for embedding CC in programs, not device makers, but streaming service sellers like Netflix (not free YouTube) have only recently been required to have CC in full-length video programming that has been shown on TV with CC.
  • Variable skip/replay options (5s/10s/30s/1m/5m). Hold button to accumulate up to 10 moves at once in each direction..
  • Variable auto chapter options (Off/5m/10m/15m/20m/30m/60m). Hold button to accumulate multiple chapters in each direction.
  • 5 FF/REW speeds with multiple button presses. Level #s display on screen, increasing on FF & declining on REW. Audio with FF #1
    Note: Some users have reported that REW goes directly back to the beginning of a title (00:00:00-point). THIS IS NOT A UNIVERSAL PROBLEM. I have three 5710's and only one of them exhibits this behavior. If this occurs, use only the REPLAY button for short backups (5 increments in Setup menu), or the PREVIOUS (| Remote Control menu. First, cover any units you don't want to change remote codes. Then, open menu and arrow up/down to code # you want. Press Title List button several times, then hold that button and simultaneously press the code # you want. Front-panel lights will alternate blinking green/red and stop blinking. Press Home menu to test... should exit displayed remote menu and show Home menu.

    For covering other units for a remote code change or for daily use with the same code, you can use a KLUGE, as described here. With these DVRs, you only have to cover the small IR button on far right of front panel.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Channel Scans

    Scan for channels (Autoprogram) with the Installation menu.

    This DVR retains the last antenna and cable scans in memory, so if you switch between them, you don't have to re-scan unless you have cable. In that case, you should probably play their "hide-the-channel" game and let the DVR search for what they've done since last scan?.

    When set for Antenna, there is a "Weak Channel" option that allows you to reposition ("tweak" or rotate) your antenna and manually add one or more channels the scan misses in the antenna's initial Autoprogram position.

    Thankfully, the channel scan menu stays on screen until you press Finish, so you can see how many analog/digital channels you picked up. The scanning menu on many devices goes away at the end of the process, so you can't immediately see that important data point.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Operating Tips (Menu, CC, Title List, etc.)

    OK Button on Live TV: Opens side menu with Favorite Channel list if you created one. Use Back button to see or edit 4 Fav Channel lists, then Back button again for same options as MENU button described next (CC, noise reduction, etc.),.

    MENU Button:
    Your best friend! Top-left in OK section. Opens side menu with op-related options, dep. on whether you're on live TV, in playback or in a menu. It's one way to get an option to switch between HDD and EHDD or FT drives, turn CC ON/OFF, etc. Try it on live TV, during playback, in Title List, etc.

    CC Control:
    To display CC, press MENU button and select Closed Caption (CC) ON or OFF (no need to go to Settings menu). This DVR has its own CC decoder so it's independent of your TV's CC options. It automatically records digital CC, if present, while analog CC (cable) can only be displayed since this DVR can't record analog channels. Typical CC start displaying in 7-10 sec but may take up to 15 sec? Does NOT get burned into video as in previous Mag HDD/DVD recorders. Program providers are responsible for embedding CC in programs, not device makers, but streaming service sellers like Netflix (not free YouTube) have only recently been required to have CC in full-length video programming that has been shown on TV with CC.. make sure you check for CC while on a show rather than its commercials (shows more likely to have CC than commercials).

    DISPLAY Button: Top of left rocker. On playback, opens top menu with time displays, where you can see where you are within a program's total run time. On live TV, those numbers are blank but HD info is added. Press DISPLAY button again or BACK button to remove menu. You can tell which drive the Display info is for by the small icon at right that shows "HD" for internal HDD or three lines representing a comm. link for external HDD/drive.

    INFO Button:
    Bottom of left rocker. On playback, brings up info box with Channel, Title, Sound Mode, Audio Language, CC Presence, and Rating. Press INFO button again or BACK button to remove menu. The CC Presence line shows immediately with a "(CC)" if that program or ad has CC in the broadcast stream... no 7-10-sec delay as is normal with start of display on screen. If no CC, that line will be blank.

    Title List:
    • Press Title List button to see, play, protect, delete, change title name, or switch HDDs. Press button again to close Title List. Can also access via Home > Title List (the default selected option).
    • Highlight/select title: Use up/down arrows, or Ch. +/- buttons to move from first to last title on a page and vice versa, or to move from page-to-page.
    • Play titles: Highlight title and press OK or PLAY to Play from Start (if never watched before) or from Resume point (if partially watched before). For ALL title options, arrow right from any title or press the MENU button to open side menu with options.
    • Delete titles three ways:
      SIngle Title - In Title List, arrow right or press Menu button, highlight title and select Title Delete.
      Multiple Titles - In Title List, arrow right or press Menu button, select Delete Multiple Titles, click to add checkmarks, select OK.
      All Titles - In Media Manager menu, select HDD, then select Delete All Titles..

    Title List Problem:
    If you're on cable with analog channels and you open the Title List menu while viewing an analog channel thru HDMI, the menu might freeze for 5-10 sec, change to blue screen with "No signal," then revert to live TV. If this happens, change to a digital channel before opening the menu again. Once you do that, the Title List will work properly when on any channel, until next power cycle. This only happens if you have cable TV and are viewing an analog channel thru HDMI (not YWR RCA). If you're on cable or OTA and have trouble deleting a problematic title in the normal way, you can delete it using the "Delete Multiple Titles" option. With that option, you don't click OK on a specific title until AFTER you open the Title Menu, press Menu button to open side menu, select "Delete Multiple Tiles," THEN click OK on titles which only puts a checkmark on those titles... you're not acting on titles directly.

    "i" Messages in Timer Programming Menu: These DVRs are apparently sensitive to signal dropouts (OTA only?) and may give you "informational" messages in the timer menu after recordings where the signal was not solid throughout. They don't affect the recording at all... what you got is what you got, dropouts and all. They can be considered "nuisances" and can be deleted by clicking on them.

    Pause: Pause button works to Pause and restart Play (unlike PhilMag DVDRs).

    Skip/Replay: You can accumulate up to 10 moves with quick, multiple presses of the approp. button or holding the button down. Press quickly in succession if you want to count and see the number of moves... holding the button moves very quickly and you can easily overshoot. Number of moves is shown in box at top. Playback resumes after number of moves has been reached.

    FF/REW: You can accumulate up to 5 speed levels with quick, multiple presses of the approp. button... FF speed 1 has audio. You can't hold the button down like with Skip/Replay above. Speed level is shown in box at top on live pic or in Display menu if you activate it. Each press increases speed (1,2,3,4,5) and each press after 5 ratchets speed back (4,3,2,1). Press PLAY to stop FF or REW. On my remote, REW works normally but FF takes 2 presses to get to 1st speed level, so 6 presses to get to top FF speed (5).

    REW Problem: Some users have reported that REW goes directly back to the beginning of a title (00:00:00-point). THIS IS NOT A UNIVERSAL PROBLEM. I have three 5710's and only one of them exhibits this behavior. If this occurs, use only the REPLAY button for short backups (5 increments in Setup menu), or the PREVIOUS (| Clock, then Auto Clock, then press the up arrow multiple times until a dialog appears asking if you want to set Auto Clock OFF. Arrow right to Yes and click on that.

    If you get an Auto Clock fail or you turn Auto Clock OFF, make sure you set your clock manually according to a ref. atomic clock. If you don't, when you turn the DVR off, the red LED on the front panel will blink constantly until you set the clock.

    * * * * * * *
    Getting Accurate Titles
    If you want accurate titles, you can't pad the start time since show titles in the broadcast stream *generally* aren't inserted until the program and its metadata start, and sources and stations are not consistent with that.

    TIP on metadata starting in transition between shows: So far, I've found that CBS excels at including show-title metadata during the transition while ABC sucks.
    FOX gave me 5 of 8 correct titles even though all 8 started during station promos. NBC still untested.

    Auto Clock with antenna is mostly very accurate, but cablecos don't follow the same FCC rules so they may have NO time signal or be late with metadata. Thus, using Auto Clock can be hit-and-miss on titles from cable TV if you have it set for exact atomic-clock time.

    You can get more accurate titles in two ways:


    1. OTA Antenna - Set Auto Clock for a station with a slow clock. While I have super-accurate titling with OTA antenna, some may not? I found at least one OTA channel (CW) in my locale that sets my clock slightly behind my atomic-clock time. That increases the odds that the stations will have the show's metadata in place by the time my timer recordings start. To check each channel: (1) open Auto Clock menu, (2) set strongest ch. number, (3) arrow right to Search box, (4) press OK exactly when atomic clock turns to next minute. If time shows that hour:minute, try another channel until you see the previous minute (indicating a slight delay).
      .
    2. Cable - Set clock manually. My cable system was a mess for titling. I found I could increase my chances of getting accurate titles on cable TV if I set my clock manually (Auto Clock OFF), and "offset" the time by 20-sec after atomic-clock time... 10- and 15-sec in my cable system were not consistent enough. The only tradeoff here is potentially losing a little snippet of a show's beginning (for shows that start 1st scene on the hour like my wife/CFO's Soap on ABC).

    Some users would rather catch ALL the show so they set their timer programs for 1-minute ahead of show start time and several minutes after show end time and don't mind the title being for the previous show. This eliminates the need for an accurate clock time. Other users record a block of time, like 7-10pm, rather than trying to get individual shows with accurate titles

    People on cable could have another impediment to getting accurate titles: some cablecos don't pass through accurate show titles so you may see names like "Program Name," "ABC," "BB527EC," etc. Unfortunately, nothing you can do for that... except "cut the cord" and go to antenna!

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Alternate OTA Channel Recording?

    My 5710 has an unadvertised recording feature: if my selected OTA channel is weak and pixelating when a timer starts, it searches for another channel of the same network and will record THAT channel instead!

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Connections for Watching One Channel While Recording Another

    Unlike VCRs, there's no "TV/VCR" button to switch between raw TV or internal VCR stuff. With this DVR, nothing internal (menus, channels or HDD playback) goes through the coax circuit, only the raw incoming signal. The DVR's internal stuff goes through its two video/audio outputs, HDMI and Composite YWR RCA. Output is simultaneous as long as HDMI is not set for Auto or 1080p.

    This DVR has an internal splitter circuit with "coax passthrough." That means whatever signal is received on the ANTENNA IN connection goes through this DVR via coax out so a downstream cable box or TV can tune channels independently. The DVR tuner receives the same signal from the internal splitter so this DVR can also tune all unscrambled channels independently.

    Thus, the cable box or TV can tune one channel and this DVR can tune and record a different channel simultaneously. This passthrough works with the DVR on or off.

    You do NOT need an external splitter, unless you like losing 50% signal strength just before it gets to this DVR's internal splitter?


    For a typical installation, connect the incoming antenna or cable coax to this DVR first, then connect coax out to the cable box or TV. Connect an HDMI cable or the YWR RCA cables from this DVR to your TV for viewing internal DVR stuff. HDMI is a digital connection and will give you the best pic quality and audio... unless you turn audio OFF in the HDMI menu... but no reason for that since this DVR only has WR RCA (stereo) as an option for audio out, no digital audio out.

    YWR RCA are analog and are for old, pre-HDMI TVs that have only YWR RCA connectors. An alternative use of the YWR RCA is for connecting to a DVD recorder (DVDR) or PC so you can offload HDD recordings for editing, making DVD copies, etc., as described in the "Copying" subject below.

    Yellow RCA video output is blocked if you have an HDMI cable inserted in the DVR's HDMI output connector and Setup > HDMI is set for Auto or 1080p. To send Yellow RCA output to a TV or external recorder, disconnect the HDMI cable from the DVR or set HDMI for any format except Auto or 1080p.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Chasing Playback & Simultaneous Play/Record

    Chasing Playback: You can "chase-play" a title currently being recorded using the Home > Title List menu. Select the currently recording title (with red dot), press MENU button or arrow right and select Play from Start (or Resume Playback if appropriate). While playing, you can press any play-mode button (Play/FF/Rew/Skip/Replay/Next/Prev). However, the STOP button acts differently from your previous experience with Philips/Magnavox HDD DVDRs.

    To Stop Playback Only: Press STOP 1X. You'll see the live pic of that channel at that particular time, with an info banner at top. To resume play, press PLAY.

    To Stop Recording: Press STOP 1X and, on the resulting live pic, press STOP again, which will pop up a Yes/No dialog with the "No" box on left highlighted. To stop the recording at this point, press STOP button again, or arrow right to "Yes" and click on that.

    Simultaneous Play/Record: You can simultaneously play an already recorded HDD title while recording a new one. Select Source (HDD or USB-HDD if one is connected). Then go to its Title List, highlight a title and press PLAY or OK. You can also arrow right from the title to get other options for playback like Play from Start or Resume Playback.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    High-Speed Dubbing (Copy/Move)

    You can copy or move titles between the internal HDD and an external drive with the Dubbing menu.

    You select the direction of Dubbing, then select title(s) to Dub, click OK 2X, then select whether you want to Start (Copy) or Start (Move). Copy = make duplicate title(s) for destination drive. Move = move title(s) from original drive to destination drive.

    The Copy/Move process is a lossless (mirror-image) high-speed dub (HSD). Speed depends on the drive to which you're dubbing and speed of the USB circuit... 5710 has black USB 2.0 port, later model MDR865/867/868 have blue USB 3.0 port (10X faster than USB 2.0). On my noted drives, here are the copy/move times from my internal HDD:

    Copy 59:04 title to my USB 2.0 EHDD thru USB 2.0 port = 12.75 min. = 21.6% of title run time (4.6X).
    Copy 59:04 title to my slow (4MB/s write) USB 2.0 FT drive thru USB 2.0 port = 23 min. = 39% of title run time (2.6X).

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Psuedo-PLTV (Pause Live TV)

    This DVR does not have "Autostart Recording" so there's no buffer to use for PLTV. However, these units DO have a feature I'm calling "Pseudo-PLTV."

    If you're watching live TV thru this unit's tuner and have to go:

    1. Press REC.
    The unit starts recording what you're watching from that point in time.
    a. Manual rec (continuous) - press REC once for manual recording, up to 8 hours.
    b. One-Touch rec (time-limited) - press REC multiple times to add rec time in 15 minute increments, up to 4 hours.

    2. On return, press PLAY.
    If it's still recording when you return, press PLAY to see what you missed (Chase Play). While playing, you can press any play-mode button (Stop/Play/FF/Rew/Skip/Replay/Next/Prev), but if you press STOP 2X in a row, a Yes/No dialog will pop up asking if want to stop the recording. Click the right answer for your situation, i.e., show over, not over, stuff on now or coming up that you want to include in the recording, etc.

    If you take a long time getting back, don't worry. The DVR will stop recording either at the max. rec times stated above or when a timer recording intervenes (it takes precedence). In either case, there will be a title on the HDD to watch what you missed.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Setting Up and Recording NetTV Services (Netflix, Vudu, YouTube, CinemaNow)

    To set this DVR up for Network access to Netflix, Vudu, YouTube or CinemaNow, see pg 49 in manual.

    Once set up, you can access 3 of the 4 net services installed via dedicated buttons on the remote for Netflix, Vudu and YouTube. You can also access all 4 net services, incl. CinemaNow, in two other ways: 1. via the bottom-right corner of the OK circle labeled NetTV, or 2. via the Home > NetTV option.

    You can't record programs from Netflix, Vudu, etc. directly on any DVR due to their copy protection, but you MAY be able to record to an external device (DVDR, PC, etc.) with a "filter" between an output on this DVR and the external device. I got an excellent copy when I used an HDMI-to-Composite/S-Video Converter, like the one described here, between my 5710 and 3575 Mag HDD DVDR... all for testing and educational purposes, of course.

    If you use this DVR's YWR RCA output instead of HDMI, you'll need one of the other filter/converters described in that help file that uses a composite YWR or S-Video input. If you use YWR RCA output instead of HDMI, make sure you disconnect the HDMI cable from the DVR (or set HDMI for any resolution other than Auto or 1080p) while recording, otherwise they don't output simultaneously.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Power Backup and Machine Reset

    Essentially no power backup... you might get from 0 to 10-sec max. with a manual clock setting. At least you only lose the date and clock, but timer programs, titles, and all Setup settings (like DST ON, Auto Clock ON, etc.) remain intact.

    If you're on OTA/antenna and had Auto Clock ON with a good time signal when you lost power, Auto Clock will remain set to ON and time will be reset almost immediately. If you're on cable and, like mine, your cableco strips all time signals, you'll have to reset the clock manually.

    I have found that with Auto Clock set to ON, even if it didn't find a good time signal (in my no-time-signal cable feed), and I Canceled in the Auto Clock menu, it can remain "ON" as far as the machine is concerned but not be maintaining a good time signal.

    If you have a problem with the machine, you can pull the power cord for 30-sec to see if that will eliminate the problem.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Using External USB-HDDs (EHDD) & Flash/Thumb (FT) Drives

    You can attach, record to, and play from EHDD and FT drives that are at least 32GB and up to 4TB in capacity (6TB in new 86x models). You can also copy or move files between the internal HDD and external drives, as described in Dubbing above.

    When this DVR finds a new, never-Registered EHDD-FT drive attached, it will open a dialog asking if you want to Register (Initialize) it. Select YES, but only if it's a drive being used for the first time on this DVR for recording video... all existing files are "deleted" if you answer YES. Otherwise, exit the menu. If you're doing a FW update with a FT drive, you'll use the Setup > Software > Software Update > USB menu, which (I think) bypasses the Registration process. An EHDD-FT drive can be Deregistered without the drive attached so a "dead" drive won't tie up one of the 8 registered slots.

    Internal and external drives are independent devices for recording and playback. Titles are NOT split between internal and external drives, like TiVo or some other DVRs, where you can't remove an external drive without losing all your titles.

    For test purposes, I used three external drives:

    1. 1TB Samsung Spinpoint MT2 3-platter SATA 3.0 USB-HDD (in Iomega USB enclosure), 4K sectors, 5400rpm, 2010 model, 932GB binary capacity.
    2. 128GB PNY Attache 2 USB 2.0 FT drive, 119GB binary capacity, 4MB/s write, 14MB/s read speed (it's SLOW!)... older version of fast USB 3.0 drive shown here. Typ. HDD write speed is 125MB/s.
    3. 32GB Lexar JumpDrive M10 Secure Superspeed USB 3.0 FT drive. It has 100MB/s read and a relatively slow 30MB/s write speed. Better would be a USB 3.0 PNY Turbo 128GB model that writes at 130MB/s, a little better than the typical 125MB/s of std HDDs. Faster write speeds generally also means faster read speed for playback.

    SATA 3.0 USB-HDD worked great for all daily recording, including back-to-back (BTB) timer recording (e.g., 7:00-8:00, 8:00-9:00, etc.) and playback while simultaneously recording normal and BTB timer programs.

    USB 2.0 PNY flash drive also worked well in direct timer recording as long as the timers are NOT BTB. It worked fine on the first one or two BTB recordings, then started ending recordings prematurely, then back to full time. It also stuttered on playback if simultaneously recording BTB programs. It didn't stutter on playback if not simultaneously recording and, as long as I left some gap (5-min. for my tests), recorded show lengths are all within 1-3 sec of full run time. These are problems that occur with other units: short timer recordings with thumb drive on the Homeworx PVR, and playback stuttering with USB-HDD (not thumb drive) on the CM DVR+. One answer is that some slower thumb drives have buffering issues that can cause recording and playback problems. This drive's specs = 4MB/s write, 12MB/s read. Typ. HDD write speed is 125MB/s. USBI 3.0 version of this drive writes at 130MB/s in a USB3.0 system.

    USB 3.0 Lexar flash drive worked much better in direct timer recording compared to the USB 2.0 thumb drive, even for timers that were BTB. It didn't stutter on playback with simultaneous recording. All BTB show lengths, except the last one, were 12-14 sec short of set run time, with the last show running long by 3-4 sec... this was true for BTB same-channel and BTB different-channel timers. Leaving a 1-sec space between BTB timers recorded ALL shows 3-4 sec long.

    My USB-HDD and thumb/jump drives worked great in Dubbing (Copying/Moving) titles between internal and external drives.

    Never detach a EHDD or FT drive while the DVR is recording to or playing from it.
    Keep an external drive attached while using it... no need to disconnect unless switching to another drive for more rec space or a diff. genre HDD.

    All EHDD-FT drives are listed as "HDD" in the Media Manager menus. When playing, you can see which drive you're playing from by looking in the right corner of the Display menu where an icon shows "HD" for internal HDD or lines representing a comm. link for an EHDD or FT drive.

    You can delete one or more individual titles on a Registered EHDD or FT drive with the Title List menu. With Media Manager, you can delete ALL titles at once, edit (customize) the drive name, or protect the drive.

    FT drives can be attached and detached while the DVR is ON. Not so with EHDDs. You attach and detach them differently and the method depends on whether the HDD is powered directly by the DVR's USB (Universal Serial Bus) port or by power from the wall. Wall-powered HDDs usually come with a transformer (wall wart) that plugs into household current.

    Attaching USB-HDDs
    USB-powered HDD - with DVR OFF, plug USB cable into DVR, then turn DVR ON.
    Wall-powered HDD - with DVR and USB-HDD OFF (no HDD power), (1) plug HDD's USB cable into DVR, (2) plug HDD wall wart into socket, (3) turn HDD ON, (4) turn DVR ON.

    Detaching USB-HDDs
    USB-powered HDD - turn DVR OFF first (both LEDs on front panel off), then unplug USB cable.
    Wall-powered HDD - turn both DVR and HDD OFF before disconnecting USB cable.

    Using EHDDs on Multiple Machines
    I was not successful in using my noted USB-HDD on one DVR then trying to play those titles on a 2nd DVR. The Title List was blank, and tryng to set a timer program resulted in a message to Register the drive first. Going to the Media Manager menu showed the drive was not recognized in that 2nd machine. I did NOT try to use an app like UFS Explorer or Captain Nemo to delete the "Register" file to see what a 2nd machine would do with that... or replace the Register file with one from another HDD for a specific machine... or try reading the Register file and seeing if there was a line item that could be changed, like unit SN.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Copying Files to PC

    I found at least two multi-OS apps that can read and copy files from any USB-attached internal/external HDD or thumb drive to a PC using my WIN8.1. I have less than zero interest in involving my PC in my video entertainment, so I looked for apps that had "trial versions."

    I successfully copied files from my USB HDD and thumb drive to my PC using a severely restricted but free "trial version" of UFS Explorer. The trial version of Captain Nemo showed me the files but wouldn't let me copy them... need paid version for that.

    As expected, my WIN8.1 didn't recognize the DVR's Linux HDD and told me I had to format the thumb drive. However, UFS Explorer found the files (and let me copy them) when I opened the app or had it open when I connected the drive(s).

    UFS Explorer also let me see and copy files from my laptop's internal WIN HDD. I hope to connect a USB cable between this DVR and my laptop and see if UFS Explorer can find the Linux files on this DVR's internal HDD... it should, but I don't have a USB cable with type A connector on each end... yet.

    Another user reported that he found this DVR's Linux files using a PC running Linux OS, without the need for outside apps.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Real-Time Copying Recorded Titles to External DVDR or PC

    The YWR RCA connections on back can be connected to a recording device, like a DVDR or PC, to copy HDD recordings in real time for editing and making DVD copies, if desired.

    IF both HDMI and YWR RCA are connected to this DVR at the same time, Yellow RCA (video) output stops (audio always outputs) unless you (1) temporarily disconnect the HDMI from this DVR or (2) set HDMI to 480p, 720p or 1080i while copying.

    Copy quality is excellent on my Philips 3575 and Mag 2160 HDD DVDRs. I'm not able to see any noticeable diff. between the source signal (OTA antenna) on my TV and the recorded copy... local news cast, weather map, cartoon, QVC and ION movie.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    Editing Titles on a DVDR or PC and Making DVD Copies

    These DVRs don't have any Editing capabilities other than Pause while manual recording, which leaves a brief, 1½-sec hesitation in playback at that point. However, you can copy recordings from this DVR's YWR RCA output to either a DVDR with editing capabilities or a PC for editing on that device... no Yellow RCA (video) output if HDMI is connected and set at Auto or 1080p so must disconnect HDMI cable from this DVR or set it to 480p, 720p or 1080i while copying.

    This DVR's file system is Linux/XFS and it records titles to .TTS files. Those files can be offloaded to your PC, if desired, as described above.

    Here's a Wiki article on editing SW for video files... make sure you use SW for Linux/XFS/.TTS.
    Here's the Comparison table from that Wiki article... make sure you use SW for Linux/XFS/.TTS.
    Here's a list of Video Conversion SW to change formats if necessary... make sure you use SW for Linux/XFS/.TTS.

    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top

    * * * * * * *

    Internal Pics for Techies

    Some internal pics for those with a silicon fetish.

    Removing the cover: The unit's outside cover is held on by 5 small phillips sheet metal screws, 3 on the back and 1 on each side towards the front. Remove those screws, slide the cover toward the back of the unit, and lift it off. Caution: This could void your warranty! Also, see the general Precautions here to avoid damaging or totally frying your machine!

    HDD in 5710 = 2-1/2" Toshiba MQ01ABF050 500GB 2.5" 5400RPM, reliability = 600,000 load/unload cycles.
    $46.99 @ Newegg.
    Toshiba MQ01ABF Series Data. Comes only in 320/500GB, so 5750 prob. has diff. HDD.
    List of Tosh data sheets, etc, just in case that's also a Tosh HDD. Their 1TB model is MQ02ABF Series.

    Click a pic to see slideshow

    Electronics Technology Electronic device Computer hardware Hard disk drive
    Electronics Computer hardware Technology Electronic device Computer component
    Electronic engineering Electronics Circuit component Technology Microcontroller


    Technology Computer hardware Electronic device Electronics Hard disk drive
    Electronics Computer hardware Motherboard Technology Electronic engineering
    Electronics Technology Electronic device Computer hardware Electronic component
    Electronics Technology Electronic device Computer hardware Motherboard
    Electronics Technology Computer component Electronic device Computer hardware


    Back to Help File Index . . . Back to Top
 
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23
#5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomintn  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23917057


wajo,


I found the opeational wattage for two of the three units to be 9 watts, but one, a Phillips is 11 watts. Is that enough diffeence for one to have an internal hard drive?


Thanks!
 

Accordng to that Energy Star site, those are the Watts for "On Mode Power (Watts)."

 

This could be the Watts used when just "On" since they don't show an "Operating" power stat? Even so, if they use 2-1/2" HDDs internally, those wattages should be quite adequate for operational state.

 

A Hitachi 2-1/2" 500GB Travelstar power specs are:

 
Requirement+5VDC(+-5%)
Start-up (W, peak, max)5.5
Read/Write (W, avg)1.8
Low power idle (W, avg)0.8
Standby (W, avg)0.2
 

A WD Scorpio Blue 2-1/2" 1TB drive has these power specs:

 
Average power requirements (W)
Read/Write 1.4
Idle 0.59
Standby/Sleep 0.18

 

That site shows "Sleep" mode for these new units to be 0.3W.
 
#6 ·

Reposted from the DVD Recorders forum.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB49  /t/940657/magnavox-537-535-533-515-513-2160a-2160-2080-philips-3576-3575/24570#post_23919804


Wajo

The remote reminds me of my sony remote with Netflix at the bottom.

Will the Magnavox be able to record the wifi channels? I've been streaming Netflix for most

of the year.On both the sony 3100 and the much faster

LG 42" 6200 TV !
 

It seems that it will, most likely just like your Sony. It even has buttons for "Net App" and "HOME" which are intriguing.

On the Energy Star site, the new units are "typed" as IPTV units but, as they explain "Type," units can be simple (one type only) or "Complex" (many types), but they just have to be "classed" for one type. So, they appear to certainly be streaming devices, but also tuning channels with the CH+/CH- buttons.

 

They show "ATSC Tuner" and, since ATSC covers both antenna and cable ( see Wiki article ), they'll be able to record from an antenna and possibly also from cable. See my comments on this in Post #1 above.
 
#7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...-recorders-wi-fi-streamers/0_50#post_23920708

 

 

It seems that it will, most likely just like your Sony. It even has buttons for "Net App" and "HOME" which are intriguing.

On the Energy Star site, the new units are "typed" as IPTV units but, as they explain "Type," units can be simple (one type only) or "Complex" (many types), but they just have to be "classed" for one type. So, they appear to certainly be streaming devices and, since the TB unit has "Antenna" in and out connectors, it might be just for tuning Antenna channels with the CH+/CH- buttons... I'm wondering if the model designation, "TB," stands for Terrestrial Broadcast, while the Philips units designated as "HDR" might stand for High Def Recorder?

 

Speculation is fun... but often wrong!?
Speculation can be fun. Until we see a real spec sheet all there is is speculation.

 

Remote: no guide button: PSIP only?

No cable card slot: clear QAM is soon to be going to heaven.

Low power consumption: drive doesn't run all the time.

 

Well, we now have have something to dream about. At least Funai hasn't given up on the U.S. (speculation)
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23920854


I wonder if these units will end up at Walmart since they have carried the Magnavox and Funai DVD recorders and Bluray players. Hopefully it will be reasonably priced and perform well.
 

That's virtually a certainty since these units might well be the result of Walmart "requesting" them, and Walmart represents ~49% of Funai's GLOBAL sales and ~74% of N.A. sales! Funai will usually not make anything for the U.S. without a "request" from Walmart.

 

As I was told, the latest DVD recorders (53x Series) were the result of our "Dear Walmart" campaign.

 

Based on past preformance, Walmart appears to get a 90-day or so "exclusive" sales deal, so I'm pretty sure you'll see anything new there first. In fact, as the DVD Recorder market was waning a few years ago, Walmart said they were not going to have them on their shelves anymore, but these NEW units, if they appear, might well be on store shelves, as they represent the future (next gen.)???

 

More speculation, of course!
 

 

EDIT 2/3/14: AND TURNED OUT TO BE NOT TRUE. Two Philips units released first with none at Walmart. Mag unit "Coming Soon."
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23917126

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomintn  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23917057


wajo,


I found the opeational wattage for two of the three units to be 9 watts, but one, a Phillips is 11 watts. Is that enough diffeence for one to have an internal hard drive?


Thanks!
 

Accordng to that Energy Star site, those are the Watts for "On Mode Power (Watts)."

 

This could be the Watts used when just "On" since they don't show an "Operating" power stat? Even so, if they use 2-1/2" HDDs internally, those wattages should be quite adequate for operational state.

 

A Hitachi 2-1/2" 500GB Travelstar power specs are:

 
Requirement+5VDC(+-5%)
Start-up (W, peak, max)5.5
Read/Write (W, avg)1.8
Low power idle (W, avg)0.8
Standby (W, avg)0.2
 

A WD Scorpio Blue 2-1/2" 1TB drive has these power specs:

 
Average power requirements (W)
Read/Write 1.4
Idle 0.59
Standby/Sleep 0.18

 

That site shows "Sleep" mode for these new units to be 0.3W.
 I just realized that, at least the TB unit, HAS to have an internal HDD since Funai's designation letter "H" typically indcates such. Of course, they *could* have retained the "H" since it is "able to be connected" to an external HDD, but that seems less likely than having an internal HDD?

 

Besides, internal and external HDDs is one primary item on our Wish List!
 

 

EDIT 2/3/14: The two Philips units released first have both internal HDDs with external USB-HDD add-ons, up to 8 each, 32GB-4TB capacity.
 
#11 ·

Very excited to hear it. I have been looking for a retirement replacement for my beleaguered Panasonic DMR EH75V (sure wish they would bring their BD DVRs out of Europe!) and I've been eyeing the Magnavox DVD/HDD box over and over again. Neither of these will probably be exactly what I'm looking for, but whatever it does for my AV set-up will be nice enough; where it'll REALLY save me is with my parents and grandparents who both need something to replace that VCR still ticking away during daytime TV.

 

What I'm a little concerned about with both of these boxes though is that I don't see an IR Blaster on the Magnavox page so far, I don't know to expect the Phillips one to be radically different. Funai hasn't put IR on any of its recorders yet, making it a much more difficult device to work with if you have to daisy-chain it into a set-top box. You can program some boxes to change channels on a timer a lot of the time (and IR Blasters have occasionally failed me,) but I'd much rather have that feature as part of any DVR product than for the casual electronics consumers who this targets at Wal-Marts to have to figure out how to make that work with their system and double-program it every single time they follow a new show.
 
#12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nixice  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23924516

 

Very excited to hear it. I have been looking for a retirement replacement for my beleaguered Panasonic DMR EH75V (sure wish they would bring their BD DVRs out of Europe!) and I've been eyeing the Magnavox DVD/HDD box over and over again. Neither of these will probably be exactly what I'm looking for, but whatever it does for my AV set-up will be nice enough; where it'll REALLY save me is with my parents and grandparents who both need something to replace that VCR still ticking away during daytime TV.

 

What I'm a little concerned about with both of these boxes though is that I don't see an IR Blaster on the Magnavox page so far, I don't know to expect the Phillips one to be radically different. Funai hasn't put IR on any of its recorders yet, making it a much more difficult device to work with if you have to daisy-chain it into a set-top box. You can program some boxes to change channels on a timer a lot of the time (and IR Blasters have occasionally failed me,) but I'd much rather have that feature as part of any DVR product than for the casual electronics consumers who this targets at Wal-Marts to have to figure out how to make that work with their system and double-program it every single time they follow a new show.
 

Good points, and I agree on the IR Blaster thing for cable.

 

Based on the very limited or still non-existent "evidence" so far, I'm thinking the TB745 is for antenna. Since it's a Mag-branded device, I'm surprised to see a USB connection since I was told before that the SD units didn't have USB "because that's a Philips thing." Even tho Funai built the original Philips HDD DVDRs, which did have USB, when they started making the follow-on Mag units, USB disappeared. So, there must have been some "constraints" in the deal for Funai to take over Philips DVD recorder business, using the Philips-owned (Except in Australia) "Magnavox" trade name, that doesn't exist anymore? Even so, IF the TB unit is really only for OTA and streaming, no need for an IR Blaster.

 

On the other hand, I'm hoping the Philips units might be for both antenna and cable, even tho getting involved in today's U.S. cable games seems like an dicey situation. The Philips units *might* be something worth considering for OTA and cable users and they just *might* have an IR Blaster, which has long been on our Wish Lists for new and next-gen devices.

 

Speculation continues for now.
 
 
#13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...-recorders-wi-fi-streamers/0_50#post_23925079

 

Speaking of the Philips HDR units, I just found some info on the net.

 

Here's an Amazon page with a $279.99 price for the 5710, which has a HDD with 50-hour HD capacity. 5750 model is $329.99 at Amazon and has a 100-hour HD capacity. (Both show "Out of Stock" but that's typical of Amazon with a brand new item. Based on prior experience, prices should be cheaper at Walmart.)

 

Amazon pages say both have an "ATSC tuner" but here's how they advertise the current OTA/QAM tuner in the HDD DVDR models right now:

SD HDD DVDR Specs on Amazon:
  • ATSC Tuner
  • 1080P Up Conversion
  • 320GB HDD Memory
  • Record from TV, or HDD to DVD

 

For the same SD HDD DVDR with OTA/QAM tuner on Walmart.com:

"This HDD DVR and DVD Recorder with Digital Tuner lets you watch, forward, rewind or freeze live TV while recording."

 

Typically, Funai (and others) have not advertised QAM as being included in their "digital" tuners, so there's still hope for cable users!? In fact, there's still hope for the TB745 as well, even tho the back coax connectors are ID'd as "Antenna"... something like the current SD HDD DVDRs have that are ID'd as "ANT IN" and "ANT OUT."

 

 

 
It would be nice to have cable support, but without a cable card slot it would be a large gamble the way things are trending. I would buy one if the price is right.
 
#15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas_Tom  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23926319


I hope if these come to be that Funai keeps using different IR codes for the remotes between Philips and Magnavox. It would also be nice if the codes were different than the current HDD/DVD recorders.
 

That's a good question and a possibility IF they've really been reading our Wish Lists, posts, etc., as I've been told they do. If one or more of the key engineers has seen pg. 1 of the HDD DVDR thread, they should be aware of our problems keeping multiple units happy, e,g,, the subject titled " Controlling Multiple Units of Same Brand / Manufacturer" ?

 

Hopefully, they'll read THIS thread and esp. this post!?
 
#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23925896


It would be nice to have cable support, but without a cable card slot it would be a large gamble the way things are trending. I would buy one if the price is right.

It seems that most of these third-party DVR manufacturers aren't interested in CableCard support, probably because it takes a lot of time and money to configure the product to accept one and obey its restrictions. Going to that amount of trouble is probably seen as an excessive expenditure, because the market for third-party cable DVRs isn't very big, what with TiVo dominating that market. If you're already paying for cable, the simplest DVR solution is to also pay for the cable company's DVR, and Joe Sixpack likes simplicity, which leaves little market share for alternatives. As such, it wouldn't be a surprise if these are OTA/clear QAM only.
 
#17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...-recorders-wi-fi-streamers/0_50#post_23926943



It seems that most of these third-party DVR manufacturers aren't interested in CableCard support, probably because it takes a lot of time and money to configure the product to accept one and obey its restrictions. Going to that amount of trouble is probably seen as an excessive expenditure, because the market for third-party cable DVRs isn't very big, what with TiVo dominating that market. If you're already paying for cable, the simplest DVR solution is to also pay for the cable company's DVR, and Joe Sixpack likes simplicity, which leaves little market share for alternatives. As such, it wouldn't be a surprise if these are OTA/clear QAM only.
So, so true. But not a surprize. But here's a wierd story: I have an original small Premiere. I just bought a new 500GB Series4. I've been moving so I finally got the cable and network finished. All that was left was the cable card.

 

Today at 10:00am I called my cable office for a $2.95/month card. I asked if I could drive the 20 miles and save the $35 truck roll charge. They said sure, so I jumped in my car and found the office (how did we live without GPS?). I told them it was my second card for a TiVo and they said call to activate.

 

In under 30 minutes (from leaving the office) I had the card installed and was on the phone having it activated. They said "ok?" and I said you have to wait 10 seconds. I started counting and at 10 seconds the channels started to display. Bottom line is you have to be very technically challenged to have a problem with a TiVo and a cable card. If Funai can make it equally easy there will be no support calls. But what about a guide?
 
#18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...recorders-wi-fi-streamers/0_100#post_23927397


If Funai can make it equally easy there will be no support calls. But what about a guide?
Don't hold your breath on cable card. Anything in that price range better have 2 tuners and at least PSIP guide capability. Anyone who wants a single tuner box that programs like a VCR can buy an iView or HomeWorx for $50.


Did you also notice the lack of a TV volume control on the remote.
 
#19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23926943


It seems that most of these third-party DVR manufacturers aren't interested in CableCard support, probably because it takes a lot of time and money to configure the product to accept one and obey its restrictions. Going to that amount of trouble is probably seen as an excessive expenditure, because the market for third-party cable DVRs isn't very big, what with TiVo dominating that market. If you're already paying for cable, the simplest DVR solution is to also pay for the cable company's DVR, and Joe Sixpack likes simplicity, which leaves little market share for alternatives. As such, it wouldn't be a surprise if these are OTA/clear QAM only.
But these new 3rd party DVRs will be mostly useless for cable TV without a cable card, since most cablecos are now eliminating analog and clear qam and requiring a cable box. So you are indeed better off with the cable DVR or TiVo in that case.
 
#21 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23927990


With the talk of IR blasters or not, has anyone noticed there don't seem to be any INPUT jacks? What good is an IR blaster if you can't feed the cable box output into the recorder?


Or, have I missed something?
For the old-folk Wal-Mart crowd that this would be partly servicing, the use of the antennae plug for RF channel 3 would still be part of their set-up. (You'd think we'd at least have composite on all cable boxes by now, but Comcast in my area still gives out "digital adapters" unless you want to pay more for a full-scale box, and that is RF in/out... actually, I kind of like RF because it's often set to passthrough, I still have some of my older components wired into my HDTV's antennae jack for simplicity and I just jack in RCA/SVIDEO cables as needed.)

 

But yes, we've gone a while without acknowledging and bemoaning that the unit (at least, the diagrammed Magnavox box) is not designed to record just anything, its purpose is specifically over-the-air broadcasts, Even though this records HD, your old DVD/HDD recorder or Windows Media Center rig may still not be ready to be replaced if you want "free, no-PC TIVO".
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nixice  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23928053

Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof  /t/1498196/magnavox-tb745h-f7-and-p...f7-hd-recorders-wi-fi-streamers#post_23927990


With the talk of IR blasters or not, has anyone noticed there don't seem to be any INPUT jacks? What good is an IR blaster if you can't feed the cable box output into the recorder?



Or, have I missed something?
For the old-folk Wal-Mart crowd that this would be partly servicing, the use of the antennae plug for RF channel 3 would still be part of their set-up. (You'd think we'd at least have composite on all cable boxes by now, but Comcast in my area still gives out "digital adapters" unless you want to pay more for a full-scale box, and that is RF in/out... actually, I kind of like RF because it's often set to passthrough, I still have some of my older components wired into my HDTV's antennae jack for simplicity and I just jack in RCA/SVIDEO cables as needed.)


But yes, we've gone a while without acknowledging and bemoaning that the unit (at least, the diagrammed Magnavox box) is not designed to record just anything, its purpose is specifically over-the-air broadcasts, Even though this records HD, your old DVD/HDD recorder or Windows Media Center rig may still not be ready to be replaced if you want "free, no-PC TIVO".

Have you ever known an RF output on a cable box to feed a high def picture to a device? Most likely a down-rezzed SD picture. That would make the HD aspect of the new recorders a moot point for cable box people.


As for 'having gone a while without...', um....


This thread only started three days ago.
 
#23 ·
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