Official Tablo thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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post #331 of 695 Old 04-22-2014, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by snowcat View Post

It's an HDTV Recorder. Therefore it is in the correct forum.

Well... yeah... kinda...
But I guess that I (like most people) expect 1080i or 1080p, output via HDMI or Component, directly to a display.

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post #332 of 695 Old 04-22-2014, 06:22 PM
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I can live without HDMI.   The 10 second pause between channels seems unreasonable.  Charles mentioned that it is possible to have a streaming only DVR changes channels with minimal delay.

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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
 

 

I have four tuners in my electronic closet and WMC changes channels within a second at all of the network attached displays.

 

I remember going from the cable boxes of the 90's to the new guide driven ones and being frustrated that I couldn't surf up and down like I had been doing for years.   Turns out surfing the guide is much better.   I am sure I will adjust to the Tablo DVR which strongly demphasizes changing channels with such long delays.   Almost everything we watch is time shifted and with 4 tuners we will be recording more stuff.   Looking forward to cutting the cord.

 

-MM13

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post #333 of 695 Old 04-22-2014, 11:39 PM
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Generally, I don't think there's much way around the initial tuning/buffering time. Might it be trimmed down a bit? Possibly...but there HAS to be some sort of a buffer time to deal with network congestion, transcoding delays, etc.

The only way I can conceive of to "eliminate" it is to have the Tablo proactively buffer certain channels with it's unused tuner(s). Perhaps assign 2 "favorite channels" during setup...and have the Tablo proactively buffer those two channels whenever the tuner/transcoder is not being used. Then, if you tuned to those channels...the buffer would already have been built ahead of time. You could actually do this with 4 channels on the 4-tuner version (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX, for example). On the downside...such a system would be far more taxing on the transcoder and hard-drive...since there would essentially be no idle-time. I'm not sure if the juice would be worth the squeeze on it.
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post #334 of 695 Old 04-23-2014, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post


When will we be able to pre-order to lock in a first batch unit?

 

The 4-Tuner will likely go straight into sales with no pre-order period. Stay tuned!

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post #335 of 695 Old 04-23-2014, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by snowcat View Post


It's going to be tough because the Tablo is designed to buffer new channels in order to prevent skipping or other issues while watching. I did run a quick test this morning that may help some. I selected one channel, let it buffer, and then it started playing (took about 15 sec). Then I selected another channel, let it buffer, and it started playing (same amount of time). Finally, I switched back to the first channel. That came up in 1-2 sec. Once a channel has been buffered, it will come up almost immediately.

So for people that want to use the Tablo to skip between several channels, the four tuner model will be the best bet. It should buffer up to four channels, though you would have to go between them all at least once.

 

As usual, snowcat is right :)

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post #336 of 695 Old 04-23-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mohanman View Post


My wife doesn't like electronics.. she spits on them. But she finds that Tablo TV and Roku 3 is very wife friendly. I mean how much more simple can it get? A roku remote? A couple icons?

Tablo TV rocks, so far with all the recordings I have done, it hasn't missed one.. flawless!

 

Glad you (and the wife) give it a thumbs up! :) 

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post #337 of 695 Old 04-24-2014, 02:26 PM
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Heres a small write up about Roku 3. Next week going over Tablo 2 tuner

http://moangry.blogspot.com/2014/04/roku-3-review.html
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post #338 of 695 Old 04-25-2014, 08:04 AM
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@mohanman Hopefully your Tablo review isn't 'angry'! :p 

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post #339 of 695 Old 04-28-2014, 10:55 AM
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I have had my Tablo for three full weeks, and I wanted to give an update on my experience.

There have been two firmware updates, one Roku app update, one Android app update, and one web browser update (I can't remember if there was an iPad update or not in this time). The first firmware update helped solve several Roku issues, while the second one should help tuning performance (though I haven't seen a difference). The Tablo team has been gathering change requests on their support forum during this time, and they are working on a roadmap for future changes. None of those changes have been implemented yet, but hopefully they will be coming out quickly once the 4 tuner version is released (or right before it).

Positives:
1. The Tablo's base functionality works very well. It's easy to record shows and play back the recordings. I haven't had any glitches in my recordings other than when I was experimenting with a particular setting (more on that later). Watching live tv or a recording on a Roku 3, iPad, Android Tablet, or Chrome browser is smooth with solid quality. The tuners in it pick up all my local channels easily.

2. The Tablo support team is friendly and quick to respond. I have emailed them (main way to directly contact the support team), and I will get a response in a few hours at most. The support forum is great for users to help other users, and the Tablo team is usually on their every morning and evening helping out as well. They still also update via Facebook and Twitter.

3. The device itself is small and silent and can fit about anywhere. I do have it connected directly to my router, as well as my Roku and one of my PCs, but the performance on my tablets and my wireless PC and laptop are very good as well.

4. Tablo Connect is a cool feature that makes your Tablo like a Slingbox (remote viewing anywhere in the country), though the limitation is that it can only be used on a device that has connected to the Tablo at least once on its home network.

Negatives:
1. The interface does behave differently on the various platforms. The iPad app seems the most polished, with dedicated 30 second skip and 20 second rewind icons for both live and recorded tv. On the Android app, live tv is limited to just pause and play, but recorded shows have the 30 sec skip and 20 sec rewind icons. There are no buttons when watching through Chrome, but you can do a 10 sec skip and 10 sec rewind by using the arrow keys. The Roku's interface is the most different of the bunch, because it doesn't have a live TV guide like the others (you just see the channel name/number and the current show title). The Roku remote left and right arrows do 10 sec jumps each way, though the FF button does what I think is a 30 sec skip.

2. No IE (or Firefox) support yet. I can connect to the Tablo via my Win8 phone, but I can't play anything or see any recordings.

3. Chromecast support is very limited. It really only works with an Android Tablet, and it's best to just let it play and not touch anything till it's done. No FF/Rewind/or pause.

4. It takes 15-20 seconds to tune to a live show on a channel that isn't in the buffer (though 1-2 seconds if it is).

5. Tablo Connect does not work on Rokus or devices that have not been on your home network (so you can't watch your Tablo on a hotel PC or you distant relative's devices).


Quirks:
1. It is best to turn off any kind of sleep mode on your hard drive. I tried it once on mine for a couple of days, and it failed to record several shows. Once I switched back to the default of no sleep mode, I have had no problems recording.

2. Switching between live shows means stopping the current show, and then looking at the menu to select another show. For everyone used to swapping shows quickly or browsing channels while one channel is still playing, this is something that is not like your typical setup.

3. There are still a lot of features that more established DVR's have that users have requested but weren't part of the first release. The software is still a work in progress.


Overall I am still very pleased with my purchase. I enjoying communicating with the Tablo support personnel as well as the Tablo user community. This DVR isn't for everyone, but if you need a device to record OTA programming and want to play it back on as many devices as possible, this is an excellent choice.
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post #340 of 695 Old 04-29-2014, 03:07 PM
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Tablo 2 Tuner review

http://moangry.blogspot.com/2014/04/tablo-tv-2-tuner-review.html
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post #341 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanman View Post

Tablo 2 Tuner review

http://moangry.blogspot.com/2014/04/tablo-tv-2-tuner-review.html

 

Glad you're loving Tablo so far! 

We're definitely working on 'resume' for recording playback. Stay tuned for that one.

 

Closed captioning is a bigger job but it's something we'd like to do as well. 

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post #342 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 08:54 AM
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Closed captioning is a bigger job but it's something we'd like to do as well. 

I'm no lawyer, but if I am reading this correctly, you are already breaking the law in the US.

http://www.cpcweb.com/caption_common/govt_regulations.htm

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post #343 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 09:43 AM
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I'm no lawyer, but if I am reading this correctly, you are already breaking the law in the US.

http://www.cpcweb.com/caption_common/govt_regulations.htm

 

It's clear that this applies to streaming services like Netflix, which we are not. We don't provide the programming, just the method for which to record it. 

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Originally Posted by TabloTV View Post

It's clear that this applies to streaming services like Netflix, which we are not. We don't provide the programming, just the method for which to record it. 

"Pre-recorded programming that is edited for Internet distribution must be captioned if it is shown on television with captions on or after September 30, 2013."

"Live and near-live programming must be captioned if it is shown on television with captions on or after March 30, 2013. Near-live programming is video programming that is performed and recorded less than 24 hours prior to the time it was first shown on television."

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post #345 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 09:52 AM
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The primary CC regs apply to TV mfgrs, which must include CC decoder(s) in their TVs, and program producers/originators, who must caption their productions.

 

Tablo is neither, so they should be OK as long as they don't block CC from getting to TVs?.

 

They appear to be still working (since 2008) on rules for IP-based stuff.



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post #346 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post


"Pre-recorded programming that is edited for Internet distribution must be captioned if it is shown on television with captions on or after September 30, 2013."

"Live and near-live programming must be captioned if it is shown on television with captions on or after March 30, 2013. Near-live programming is video programming that is performed and recorded less than 24 hours prior to the time it was first shown on television."

 

Edited for internet distribution means services like Netflix and we don't show content directly on TVs without an intermediary. Tablo is primarily a recording device, not a television distribution service which is what these laws apply to. 

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post #347 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 09:54 AM
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I sincerely doubt this applies to Tablo. This is not internet distribution...the Tablo simply allows place/time-shifting of content that has already been delivered to your home via *OTA* transmissions.
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post #348 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 10:02 AM
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I sincerely doubt this applies to Tablo. This is not internet distribution...the Tablo simply allows place/time-shifting of content that has already been delivered to your home via *OTA* transmissions.

But I thought that one of the "big deals" about Tablo was that you could view your recordings just about anywhere, on any device, by sending them back out over the internet?

I think the question becomes... Is Tablo stripping the Closed-Captioning information when doing its transcoding from Mpeg2 to mp4?

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post #349 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakotah View Post

I sincerely doubt this applies to Tablo. This is not internet distribution...the Tablo simply allows place/time-shifting of content that has already been delivered to your home via *OTA* transmissions.

But I thought that one of the "big deals" about Tablo was that you could view your recordings just about anywhere, on any device, by sending them back out over the internet?

 

Even if the internet is involved in distribution, Tablo is not one of the responsible parties in CC encoding. The producers must include CC in their programs and TVs must have CC decoder(s). They're still working (since 2008) on CC rules for IP-based distribution, and even there, the responsible parties may not change in any material way... except maybe "no one shall block CC ... etc."?



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post #350 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Even if the internet is involved in distribution, Tablo is not one of the responsible parties in CC encoding. The producers must include CC in their programs and TVs must have CC decoder(s). They're still working (since 2008) on CC rules for IP-based distribution, and even there, the responsible parties may not change in any material way... except maybe "no one shall block CC ... etc."?

And you may well be correct... after all, we are dealing with the Federal government here . . . wink.gif

Let's see.. the programming originator must provide CC, the ultimate receiver/displayer of the programming must be capable of displaying CC, but if someone in the middle strips/kills CC, oh well... that's ok rolleyes.gif

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post #351 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 10:45 AM
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I was looking at the closed captioning law, and this sticks out:
"Requires devices designed to record TV programs to pass through closed captions, video description, and emergency information so viewers are able to turn on/off the closed captions and video description when the TV program is played back, if achievable."

So it does look like the Tablo will need closed captioning at some point. The "if achievable" part is a bit confusing, since it is combines with "requires". I would guess that Tablo can claim right now that it isn't achievable with the current software, so it isn't breaking the law. I would also assume that once closed captioning works, it needs to work for all programming (which shouldn't be a problem).
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post #352 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 10:50 AM
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Even if the internet is involved in distribution, Tablo is not one of the responsible parties in CC encoding. The producers must include CC in their programs and TVs must have CC decoder(s). They're still working (since 2008) on CC rules for IP-based distribution, and even there, the responsible parties may not change in any material way... except maybe "no one shall block CC ... etc."?

not only the tv, the device you place in the middle of the source and the tv. a tivo in between a tv and the source is the one decoding CC. a DVR+ in between the tv and the source is decoding not the tv. Every chinese, walmart available digital tuner has CC. The tv is not doing the decoding. where in the rules does it say that only TV manufacturers are required to abide by this? not other devices?

clearly states: "Live and near-live programming must be captioned if it is shown on television with captions on or after March 30, 2013. Near-live programming is video programming that is performed and recorded less than 24 hours prior to the time it was first shown on television." Shown on television means a broadcast, not on an actual TV. Even Tivo provides CC on their ipad/iphone app when you transcode a recorded TV program and transmit it to it via the internet or at home. why?

becasue its the law: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/21st-century-communications-and-video-accessibility-act-2010
Quote:
Expands the requirement for video programming equipment (equipment that shows TV programs) to be capable of displaying closed captions, to devices with screens smaller than 13 inches (e.g., portable TVs, laptops, smart phones), and requires these devices to be able to pass through video descriptions and emergency information that is accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired, if technically feasible and achievable..

now, if you want to argue if its "technically feasible and achivable" for tablo to do it? im sure someone will argue, but yes, its achievable and feasible simply because its been done.
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Requires interconnection mechanisms (cables) to carry (from the source device to the consumer equipment – e.g., TV set) the information necessary to permit the display of closed captions and make video description and emergency information audible.

there are few other bullet points that definitely apply to Tablo in the US.

Also, for icing on the cake. Since Tablo markets itself as a chord cutter solution, no longer pay for cable tv, use this device as your viewing entertainment, it is safe to say that some people, the tablo will be their only way to watch tv. if that's the case, does tablo break another law? does tablo pass the Emergency Alert System?
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Requires video programming distributors, providers, and owners to convey emergency information in a manner that is accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired.

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post #353 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 10:57 AM
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Also, for icing on the cake. Since Tablo markets itself as a chord cutter solution, no longer pay for cable tv, use this device as your viewing entertainment, it is safe to say that some people, the tablo will be their only way to watch tv. if that's the case, does tablo break another law? does tablo pass the Emergency Alert System?

Since the Tablo takes the programming directly from the local broadcasters, if those broadcasters are sending an emergency alert, then Tablo owners will receive that as well. It would be exactly like the antenna being hooked up to the tv directly.
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post #354 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:04 AM
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Since the Tablo takes the programming directly from the local broadcasters, if those broadcasters are sending an emergency alert, then Tablo owners will receive that as well. It would be exactly like the antenna being hooked up to the tv directly.

dont be confused, have you seen EAS on your tablo? EAS is not inserted into the actual program being broadcasted. The EAS header is inserted into the whole digital stream when necessary or for a test where the SAME header, the attention sound, message and the EOM burts are sent on a different frequency of the carrier wave (digital stream). When tablo is transcoding the "live TV" does it also pick up and display EAS?

if thats the case, then thats good, and CC is not hard to do.

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post #355 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post

I was looking at the closed captioning law, and this sticks out:
"Requires devices designed to record TV programs to pass through closed captions, video description, and emergency information so viewers are able to turn on/off the closed captions and video description when the TV program is played back, if achievable."

So it does look like the Tablo will need closed captioning at some point. The "if achievable" part is a bit confusing, since it is combines with "requires". I would guess that Tablo can claim right now that it isn't achievable with the current software, so it isn't breaking the law. I would also assume that once closed captioning works, it needs to work for all programming (which shouldn't be a problem).

 

No, the law applies to display/TV mfgrs where CC are to be displayed... they must include a "control" (CC decoder) to show or hide CC, which must be embedded by the program producer.

 

Tabl just can't "block" that producer-to-TV regulated path/mechanism.



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post #356 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:22 AM
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No, the law applies to display/TV mfgrs where CC are to be displayed... they must include a "control" (CC decoder) to show or hide CC, which must be embedded by the program producer.

Tabl just can't "block" that producer-to-TV regulated path/mechanism.

No, the law applies to everything that is decoding the digital stream and sending it to a display device, even if its the display device doing the decoding on its own.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/21st-century-communications-and-video-accessibility-act-2010
Quote:
Expands the requirement for video programming equipment (equipment that shows TV programs) to be capable of displaying closed captions, to devices with screens smaller than 13 inches (e.g., portable TVs, laptops, smart phones), and requires these devices to be able to pass through video descriptions and emergency information that is accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired, if technically feasible and achievable.

Here, ill make it easy for you.

video programming equipment = Tablo
to devices with screens smaller than 13 inches (e.g., portable TVs, laptops, smart phones) = ipad, iphone, laptop etc

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post #357 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post

No, the law applies to everything that is decoding the digital stream and sending it to a display device, even if its the display device doing the decoding on its own.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/21st-century-communications-and-video-accessibility-act-2010
Here, ill make it easy for you.

video programming equipment = Tablo
to devices with screens smaller than 13 inches (e.g., portable TVs, laptops, smart phones) = ipad, iphone, laptop etc

There are actually two categories of devices that are in the law. The first deals with devices that have screens, which the Tablo does not. So you can ignore that part.
The other category is "other devices", and the Tablo does fall into that category. Those are devices that record video programming with sound, which the Tablo clearly does.

Hopefully the folks working on this get closed captioning done soon before they run into any legal trouble. Either that or they have already received a waiver saying they are fine without closed captioning.
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post #358 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

No, the law applies to display/TV mfgrs where CC are to be displayed... they must include a "control" (CC decoder) to show or hide CC, which must be embedded by the program producer.

Tabl just can't "block" that producer-to-TV regulated path/mechanism.

No, the law applies to everything that is decoding the digital stream and sending it to a display device, even if its the display device doing the decoding on its own.

http://www.fcc.gov/guides/21st-century-communications-and-video-accessibility-act-2010
Quote:
Expands the requirement for video programming equipment (equipment that shows TV programs) to be capable of displaying closed captions, to devices with screens smaller than 13 inches (e.g., portable TVs, laptops, smart phones), and requires these devices to be able to pass through video descriptions and emergency information that is accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired, if technically feasible and achievable.

Here, ill make it easy for you.

video programming equipment = Tablo
to devices with screens smaller than 13 inches (e.g., portable TVs, laptops, smart phones) = ipad, iphone, laptop etc

 

Here, I'll make it simple for YOU... you left out some key words like "equipment that shows TV programs", "capable of displaying closed captions", "to devices with screens", "pass through".

 

Enough said by me... I'm out of this never-ending argument. Just read ALL the words, in context, and you will be enlightened.

 

Maybe just ask yourself how does an intermedary device makes assure that all programs have closed captions before broadcast or availability, and how do they make sure everyone display device (TV) as a control that allows a person to turn CC on and off? Those two ends of the CC "ball of poisonous snakes" are the ones required by law to make it happen.



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post #359 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post

There are actually two categories of devices that are in the law. The first deals with devices that have screens, which the Tablo does not. So you can ignore that part.
The other category is "other devices", and the Tablo does fall into that category. Those are devices that record video programming with sound, which the Tablo clearly does.

Hopefully the folks working on this get closed captioning done soon before they run into any legal trouble. Either that or they have already received a waiver saying they are fine without closed captioning.

I understand that, but others dont. In the link i posted, it clearly states the law was expanded to include these new devices.

It only takes one deaf or blind person, or someone killed in a tornado to sue Tablo out of existence. I dont want to see that, I'm rooting for them.

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post #360 of 695 Old 04-30-2014, 11:36 AM
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Interestingly enough, SimpleTv does not support closed captioning either. http://community.simple.tv/index.php?/topic/11-simpletv-and-closed-captioning/ (someone in that thread also points out that it is the law).

There still is the caveat "if achievable" for these devices to fall back on. I honestly don't know what the litmus test is for that.
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