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HDTV Recorders

WS65711's Avatar WS65711
07:36 AM Liked: 116
post #571 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 4,338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post
Although they don't say "you don't connect directly to your TV," the Walmart description has two places suggesting "casting" vs direct connection to a TV (bolded here);

Tablo is a next-generation DVR that plugs into an HDTV antenna to capture free, local HDTV broadcast programs including news and sports within the US and Canada. Unlike traditional DVRs that are connected to one TV, Tablo streams content to any connected device inside your home or anywhere you have Internet.

Tablo 2-Tuner DVR for HDTV Antennas:
  • Watch, pause and record live TV
  • Skip commercials
  • Schedule recordings
  • Manage existing recordings
  • Record up to 2 shows simultaneously
  • Watch on up to 6 devices simultaneously
  • Watch on PC/Mac or Apple iPad/Android tablet app interface
  • Stream live and recorded shows anywhere in the world
  • Streaming to TV via AppleTV/Roku/Chromecast
  • Apple iPad and Android tablet app interface
Yes... but people are gonna read all that and still expect to be able to hook it up directly to their TV. Why? Because that's they way every other DVR they've ever seen hooks up. The line of thinking will be "all that streaming stuff is great, but I just wanna hook it up to watch my soaps when I get home from work" . . .
WS65711's Avatar WS65711
07:40 AM Liked: 116
post #572 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 4,338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
I finally have a review posted for the 2-tuner on walmart.com where I do try to explain the whole setup in more detail.
That's good. Hopefully people read it thoroughly so that they won't be surprised . . .
brg606's Avatar brg606
09:58 AM Liked: 12
post #573 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnsmith02 View Post
OK, I give up!! I have looked all over Roku channels and I cannot find the "what"s on" channel. A little hint pls.

Thanks
sorry, it's a private channel....here's a link
https://owner.roku.com/add/WHATSONCHANNEL
phughes200's Avatar phughes200
10:27 AM Liked: 20
post #574 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 21
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This is where I feel Tablo missed the boat. They targeted the people who are up to date on technology. To use this you need Wi-Fi (router), a streaming device (Roku, etc), an AV reciever with HDMI inputs (if surround sound is desired), a hard drive (not mentioned above), a subscription (not required and also not mentioned above) and some basic idea of how this all works.


I suspect that a lot of the Walmart customer base will be missing some of these things.


If they added a HDMI output then all you needed is a TV with a HDMI input and a hard drive. Basically plug and play. The potential market would have been much larger. You couldn't stream without the rest but not everyone needs that function. Some just want a DVR. It would have cost more but probably cheaper then having to buy a streaming device.


I looked closely at this and really wanted to buy it. At the end of the day, I didn't want to replace my four year old stereo and speakers to get surround sound. Also I needed a second Roku to supply the same streaming that my AV system already had.
Aero 1's Avatar Aero 1
11:22 AM Liked: 77
post #575 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phughes200 View Post
This is where I feel Tablo missed the boat. They targeted the people who are up to date on technology. To use this you need Wi-Fi (router), a streaming device (Roku, etc), an AV reciever with HDMI inputs (if surround sound is desired), a hard drive (not mentioned above), a subscription (not required and also not mentioned above) and some basic idea of how this all works.


I suspect that a lot of the Walmart customer base will be missing some of these things.


If they added a HDMI output then all you needed is a TV with a HDMI input and a hard drive. Basically plug and play. The potential market would have been much larger. You couldn't stream without the rest but not everyone needs that function. Some just want a DVR. It would have cost more but probably cheaper then having to buy a streaming device.


I looked closely at this and really wanted to buy it. At the end of the day, I didn't want to replace my four year old stereo and speakers to get surround sound. Also I needed a second Roku to supply the same streaming that my AV system already had.
tablo doesnt support surround sound yet, only stereo. from their forum, AC3 pass through is low on the priority list.
snowcat's Avatar snowcat
11:28 AM Liked: 56
post #576 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 659
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TabloSupport has posted recently in their forum that AC3 surround sound is not something that will be implemented in the next 6 months. It doesn't bother me, but it may be a factor for some people.

They also explained their recording settings in a lot more detail. You can set up your Tablo to record either in 1080p or 720P (or even 480P, but I can't imagine that being popular). What I didn't know was that all this affects are 1080i channels.

If you have a 720p channel, it always records and plays back in 720p. If you have a 480i channel, it will de-interlace and record/play in 480p. And if you have a 1080i channel, then it will de-interlace if set to 1080p or it will change the resolution to 720p if set to 720p.

I have mine set to 1080p, and I was worried about hard drive space (since 1080p takes up more). But since most channels that I record are 720p channels, it hasn't used up that much space (I still have used up only about 100G of my 1TB drive)
TabloTV's Avatar TabloTV
01:28 PM Liked: 36
post #577 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 135
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Sorry we haven't checked in for a while guys.

Yes, we had a laugh and then shook our fist at the 'Philips 4-Tuner'. Don't worry, it was a mistake and there's no imminent takeover


We are a bit worried about the Walmart user not 'getting it' which is why we developed our new explainer video.


(We've got another one in the works as well that reinforces the no HDMI concept even more.) We're hoping to be able to add it to the listing. People are much more likely to watch a video and retain the information than read. If we've learned anything in the last year, it's that people don't read anything!

Hope everyone is having a good summer!
Charles R's Avatar Charles R
01:42 PM Liked: 238
post #578 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 10,572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabloTV View Post
People are much more likely to watch a video and retain the information than read. If we've learned anything in the last year, it's that people don't read anything!
If it helps I know exactly how the device works however viewing the video I got the impression it simply "streams to any screen"... now watching a half dozen times and pausing I noticed the media players on one of the TV screens which knowing what I know makes sense... not sure it actually explains to someone who doesn't and I did get the "streams to any screen" loud and clear. Placing the media players outside of the TV might help... although the image goes by so fast I'm not sure it would.
TabloTV's Avatar TabloTV
02:47 PM Liked: 36
post #579 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post
If it helps I know exactly how the device works however viewing the video I got the impression it simply "streams to any screen"... now watching a half dozen times and pausing I noticed the media players on one of the TV screens which knowing what I know makes sense... not sure it actually explains to someone who doesn't and I did get the "streams to any screen" loud and clear. Placing the media players outside of the TV might help... although the image goes by so fast I'm not sure it would.
That's why we're making a second video where we show how things like Roku and Chromecast connect & stream. There's no way people can miss it in the second version! I'll post it when we're done.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
03:42 PM Liked: 68
post #580 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 3,058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabloTV View Post
Sorry we haven't checked in for a while guys.

Yes, we had a laugh and then shook our fist at the 'Philips 4-Tuner'. Don't worry, it was a mistake and there's no imminent takeover


We are a bit worried about the Walmart user not 'getting it' which is why we developed our new explainer video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we81nL-xMwM

(We've got another one in the works as well that reinforces the no HDMI concept even more.) We're hoping to be able to add it to the listing. People are much more likely to watch a video and retain the information than read. If we've learned anything in the last year, it's that people don't read anything!

Hope everyone is having a good summer!
You need to point blank tell customers there is no direct(HDMI/Component) capability to their TV.
laridae's Avatar laridae
06:51 PM Liked: 48
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08-08-2014 | Posts: 170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post
You need to point blank tell customers there is no direct(HDMI/Component) capability to their TV.
Exactly!

No use tiptoeing around the issue - that's what people need to be told directly. In fact I'd go further and say no amount of spoon-feeding or 'splainin makes up for the fact this is a revolutionary new way of doing things that runs counter to every intuitive expectation of the general public.

If Tablo wants this to ever become a popular consumer product they need to add HDMI out. The concept is flawed; how long before they admit it and fix it?
snowcat's Avatar snowcat
07:12 PM Liked: 56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laridae View Post
Exactly!
If Tablo wants this to ever become a popular consumer product they need to add HDMI out. The concept is flawed; how long before they admit it and fix it?
There is nothing to fix. One box, multiple display devices. That is a whole lot better than one device, one tv set.

If you don't like it, then don't buy it. There are plenty of customers that love it as is.
phughes200's Avatar phughes200
08:09 PM Liked: 20
post #583 of 781
08-08-2014 | Posts: 21
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The point is that by adding a HDMI out, Tablo would appeal to a broader audience. Many people would love to have a DVR that simply connects to the TV like a VCR did. The only other option for a direct connect DVR right now appears to be an TIVO or the DVR+ by Channel Master.
snowcat's Avatar snowcat
08:13 PM Liked: 56
post #584 of 781
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That's kind of the point. There are already devices out there for single TVs. The Tablo is going after the market that has multiple phones/tablets/Tvs/PCs, and it can show TV on all of them. That market has barely been touched, so it is ripe for this kind of device.
laridae's Avatar laridae
06:06 AM Liked: 48
post #585 of 781
08-09-2014 | Posts: 170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
That's kind of the point. There are already devices out there for single TVs. The Tablo is going after the market that has multiple phones/tablets/Tvs/PCs, and it can show TV on all of them. That market has barely been touched, so it is ripe for this kind of device.
Then they've targeted the device at a limited, niche market and sales will be limited accordingly.

I hope I'm wrong; I'd love to see them succeed. Time will tell!
snowcat's Avatar snowcat
06:52 AM Liked: 56
post #586 of 781
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They have targeted it at cord cutters everywhere. I don't see that as a niche market, but a growing one.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
11:54 AM Liked: 68
post #587 of 781
08-09-2014 | Posts: 3,058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laridae View Post
Exactly!

No use tiptoeing around the issue - that's what people need to be told directly. In fact I'd go further and say no amount of spoon-feeding or 'splainin makes up for the fact this is a revolutionary new way of doing things that runs counter to every intuitive expectation of the general public.

If Tablo wants this to ever become a popular consumer product they need to add HDMI out. The concept is flawed; how long before they admit it and fix it?
It depends on the targeted customer base they are looking for. Adding HDMI would make it suitable for a much marker pool of potential customers, but they have targeted the much much smaller group of cord cutters who only want to use it on their smartphones, roku's, etc. Adding HDMI would require new hardware and add cost and complexity on their side. This 1st generation line will never get HDMI and if they decide to add it then they would offer it as a 2nd generation line if devices. Maybe they are perfectly happy living within the small confines of their current target base?
WS65711's Avatar WS65711
08:45 AM Liked: 116
post #588 of 781
08-11-2014 | Posts: 4,338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post
You need to point blank tell customers there is no direct(HDMI/Component) capability to their TV.
Exactly. Just saying it "streams to any device" is not sufficient. People see that the Tablo is sold as a DVR. People expect a DVR to hook up to the TV via Component or HDMI. Seeing that it streams will be interpreted as a bonus (it also streams). But streaming at the expense of a direct HDMI connection leaves much to be desired.
WS65711's Avatar WS65711
08:51 AM Liked: 116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
That's kind of the point. There are already devices out there for single TVs. The Tablo is going after the market that has multiple phones/tablets/Tvs/PCs, and it can show TV on all of them. That market has barely been touched, so it is ripe for this kind of device.
Maybe so. But when you're trying to sell this device on Walmart.com I believe that not spelling out in plain English that there is no method of connecting the Tablo directly to a TV is a mistake.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
12:01 PM Liked: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ws65711 View Post
maybe so. But when you're trying to sell this device on walmart.com i believe that not spelling out in plain english that there is no method of connecting the tablo directly to a tv is a mistake.
+1,000,000
snowcat's Avatar snowcat
12:38 PM Liked: 56
post #591 of 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post
Maybe so. But when you're trying to sell this device on Walmart.com I believe that not spelling out in plain English that there is no method of connecting the Tablo directly to a TV is a mistake.
SimpleTv's description on walmart.com is practically identical to Tablo's. Both of them stress the word "stream". Neither specifically say they don't connect to a TV directly, and neither have a "connections" section (unlike TIVO, which shows HDMI, component, etc).

Maybe there are idiots on Walmart's site that don't know what "stream" means and assume that every DVR in the world connects to a TV directly. Maybe there are ones that do no research, ask no questions, and don't read the reviews on that site or on the web. But I think they are few and far between.

It would be a little different if the Tablo was sold in stores next to the TVs. The boxes would need more info then they have now. But for now everything is online only.
phughes200's Avatar phughes200
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Snowcat, I suspect that most people that stream content to their TV are use to using a device that connects directly to the TV. Roku, DVD players, Tivo directly connect. Modern TV have the streaming apps built in.


Tablo needs to be clear that to use this device you need a hard drive, a network and a streaming device. Otherwise, it is a paper weight.


To a lot of people this device will be confusing. I would not call them idiots. Just uninformed.
WS65711's Avatar WS65711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phughes200 View Post
... To a lot of people this device will be confusing. I would not call them idiots. Just uninformed.
Not to mention the fact that most people will not put up with the inherent 5-10 second delay when changing channels . . .
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
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08-14-2014 | Posts: 407
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Mentioning things such as "no" "none" or "doesn't have" have negative connotations, and generally most manufactures are not going to use such language. That's understandable and I wouldn't expect such...

Tablo's approach is innovative and I believe in a step in the right direction. One box for all of the TV's, and devices, that's a nice win.

The ONLY reason I have not purchased one is the need to use a connected device, in addition to a remote control. I finally have a Roku 3, as of a couple days ago, so I'm a bit more "there" in that respect, but as I learned here, one would still need to use a connected device to perform all that I'd want to perform.

As forward-thinking and revolutionary I find the Tablo, I find the connected device requirement a step backwards. Having to futz around with a universal remote (think Harmony 1) to control the System, and also a connected device to serve as another control, is an absolute deal-breaker for me and most I know...

Having a Tablo remote control, which could be programmed or learned by a master remote control for those with complex systems, would make me an instant buyer. I just saw my pop yesterday, and he too, proud that he finally has his entertainment system managed with one remote control, quickly dismissed the idea of any DVR where that would no longer be the case.

Does Tablo recognize this reality as a shortcoming worthy of addressing, with a remote control, or through some other means?

Back to the HDMI... An introductory Tablo with such an output, in my opinion, would have been very desirable for consumers today; and with that, for the company. This wouldn't be at the expense of the forward-thinking streaming that makes the Tablo the cool, innovative, easily scalable product that it is... Get folks in, sold on the concept of streaming TV without a direct-to-TV connection, and they'll be weaned-off the HDMI hang-up. That said, if the HDMI connection yields a better and / or more reliable output, it would be a desirable option. I think that's a key point - an option. I'm completely sold on the streaming to the TV and other devices approach; but I'd strongly consider and probably prefer a direct connection via HDMI to the main TV. Tablo clearly gets the idea of such options as the they allow for both a WiFi and ethernet connection. There are performance benefits going with wired Ethernet, so I would similarly make that happen...
snowcat's Avatar snowcat
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08-15-2014 | Posts: 659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB1966 View Post
The ONLY reason I have not purchased one is the need to use a connected device, in addition to a remote control. I finally have a Roku 3, as of a couple days ago, so I'm a bit more "there" in that respect, but as I learned here, one would still need to use a connected device to perform all that I'd want to perform.

As forward-thinking and revolutionary I find the Tablo, I find the connected device requirement a step backwards. Having to futz around with a universal remote (think Harmony 1) to control the System, and also a connected device to serve as another control, is an absolute deal-breaker for me and most I know...

Having a Tablo remote control, which could be programmed or learned by a master remote control for those with complex systems, would make me an instant buyer. I just saw my pop yesterday, and he too, proud that he finally has his entertainment system managed with one remote control, quickly dismissed the idea of any DVR where that would no longer be the case.

Does Tablo recognize this reality as a shortcoming worthy of addressing, with a remote control, or through some other means?
When you say "connected device", you are meaning a web browser, right? Since you have to have an internal network to use a Tablo anyway, is there anyone out there has a network but no browser handy?

Once you have the Tablo set up, you only have to use your web browser to update the Tablo's firmware. Everything else can be done from the Roku (though obviously some functions are better suited to the browser). As the Tablo folks get their Roku development going, the Roku will be able do even more. Since the Roku remote's functions can be programmed into a universal remote, you can do about everything through it.

It doesn't make any sense for the Tablo to have its own remote control. It's like saying Netflix needs to send it's own remote control when you subscribe. The Tablo is just a mini-server that can be used on a variety of platforms.

I you have any more questions, please let me know.
TabloTV's Avatar TabloTV
01:29 PM Liked: 36
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08-15-2014 | Posts: 135
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Happy Friday guys...

As promised, here's our new video. I think we've made the 'no-HDMI' concept pretty clear


Charles R's Avatar Charles R
02:00 PM Liked: 238
post #597 of 781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabloTV View Post
As promised, here's our new video. I think we've made the 'no-HDMI' concept pretty clear
I agree... it does a great job of highlighting how it works.
qz3fwd's Avatar qz3fwd
05:18 PM Liked: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabloTV View Post
Happy Friday guys...

As promised, here's our new video. I think we've made the 'no-HDMI' concept pretty clear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuPBes44jlg
Much better.
TonyB1966's Avatar TonyB1966
06:37 PM Liked: 24
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08-15-2014 | Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
When you say "connected device", you are meaning a web browser, right? Since you have to have an internal network to use a Tablo anyway, is there anyone out there has a network but no browser handy?

Once you have the Tablo set up, you only have to use your web browser to update the Tablo's firmware. Everything else can be done from the Roku (though obviously some functions are better suited to the browser). As the Tablo folks get their Roku development going, the Roku will be able do even more. Since the Roku remote's functions can be programmed into a universal remote, you can do about everything through it.

It doesn't make any sense for the Tablo to have its own remote control. It's like saying Netflix needs to send it's own remote control when you subscribe. The Tablo is just a mini-server that can be used on a variety of platforms.

I you have any more questions, please let me know.
Handy, as in nearby, or even the same viewing room, I'd venture to guess that there would always be a tablet or browser available, or handy.

It could be on my lap, that kind of "handy", but if that device has to be used in addition to the universal remote to accomplish desired requests, I find that unfortunate. I believe it was you snowcat who assisted me before better understand what to expect. Actually, you helped a lot. I just found one of your many helpful posts:

"The one big advantage the Roku has over AppleTv and Chromecast is that the Roku doesn't need anything besides the remote (and you can use the Roku or a universal remote).

With the Roku, you can pause, rewind, FF, and play live TV and recordings. You can browse by category (TV Shows, Movies, and Sports) to find shows (14 day guide) and then set up recordings (single show, all of series, or all new episodes of a series). You can also delete shows and unschedule programs.

The one thing the Roku doesn't do that is available through the tablet apps or the web app is show a 24 hour live tv program grid. When you go to liveTV on the Roku, all you will see are each channel and what show is currently on. This also means that if you don't have a guide subscription, you would need another device (like a PC or tablet) to set up recordings by date/time/channel. Right now, everyone had a guide subscription, because the manual recording option is still not available, and even when it is available, I highly recommend the subscription (monthly, yearly, or lifetime)."

source: Official Tablo thread

As I replied or in response to that commentary, I stated that pulling-up such a live grid is the first thing we do upon firing-up the TV, to see what's on at the moment, or soon to be. If there's nothing desirable to watch live, then we proceed to recordings or a Roku channel... So, in that scenario, we'd be needing more than just the remote control to see the lay of the land (current and upcoming live OTA programming).

When you say that "When you go to liveTV on the Roku, all you will see are each channel and what show is currently on", is there a screenshot somewhere of that looks like? Maybe more than a couple channels at a time are visible, as opposed to one channel per scroll? I'm trying to visualize what it would be like for us to still survey all live programming with a Tablo in the mix...

Thanks much for your help.

EDIT / ADD: "TabloTV", I concur. That video is very good and makes things quite clear (no direct connection to the TV).
jamez68's Avatar jamez68
08:31 PM Liked: 18
post #600 of 781
08-15-2014 | Posts: 40
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On sale at Newegg, 4 tuner 15% off $300 list price, 2 tuner with coupon code is I believe $189.
I'm also one who isnt ready to buy yet because I would need a Roku and a new tablet, and I like how my video equipment runs thru my AV receiver and is all controlled by a Harmony remote. I follow these threads so if my PAL dies I will know what my options are, and who knows, maybe one day there will be a Tablo 2 with HDMI.

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