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-   -   Moxi vs. DirecTV Genie...? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1513388-moxi-vs-directv-genie.html)

archiguy 01-22-2014 05:29 AM

Moving into a new house shortly (after a year of construction). Electrical wiring in the walls to begin next week. Have to make a decision on cable/sat TV now. New cable company (Comporium in upstate SC) uses the MOXI system. From what I gather, it's quite similar to DirecTV's Genie system in that there is a central DVR hub with little satellite boxes that connect to it via coax cable throughout the house. The MOXI hub also contains the cable modem and wireless router. We plan to have a wireless network for Internet, as I do now with TimeWarner Cable.

I should probably mention that I've grown to hate TWC in the last few years since they went to in-house software with their Navigator platform. They've steadily reduced the functionality of their DVR's, for no apparent reason. Broadband speed has slowed to a crawl, even though I've maxed out their speed options at higher cost. I'm so glad to be done with them.

The MOXI system seems top-notch from what I gather. Six tuners (!) and eSATA capibility to go with a 500 GB hard drive mean complete recording flexibility and unlimited storage. Coming from the crippled TWC cable system, that's awesome! It's a standard cable company rental system with the satellite tuners leasing for $7/month each. I figure I'll need 4 or 5 of them for the rooms that need TV.

What I'd like to do with this thread is get pros & cons for these two systems (no DISH, please). Is the PQ the same in terms of compression/rate shaping of the video signal? Any greater functionality with Genie vs. MOXI? Any drawbacks to MOXI? What about the inevitable move to 4K? I'm assuming pricing will be roughly similar so that's not as big a deal - I'm mostly trying to figure out what the "best" system is from a functionality and quality standpoint.

Thanks so much for any feedback!

archiguy 02-08-2014 12:00 PM

Dang, 53 views since I posted this a couple of weeks ago and not one reply? Nobody has a helpful comment?

Thought I'd bump it because hope springs eternal...

VisionOn 02-08-2014 07:38 PM

You are asking for a comparison that few can make. Moxi is deployed only on a small number of mostly independent cablecos. You would better trawling the local thread or doing your own research on each.

You'll also find that the Moxi brand isn't universally used either. Bend call it Alpha for example. http://www.bendbroadband.com/residential/alpha_index.asp?adct=3&promo=1&page=TV#TV

Searching for Arris Gateway or Arris Whole Home DVR might yield more results.

TeeJay1952 02-09-2014 05:13 AM

I live in Detroit suburb and Wow tv offers Ultra tv which is the new Moxie. Only available to cable companies. Has 6 tuners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysKpNzPtVGg

joed32 02-09-2014 06:17 AM

Choose the provider that suits your viewing needs and go from there. 6 tuners, 5 tuners, no big deal.

archiguy 02-09-2014 08:53 AM

Well, I only have the choice of 2 providers joe. Both would meet my basic needs, I'm sure. One, my cable company which offers MOXI, and two, DirecTV. I have eliminated DISH because of various problems I see with their platform. When you say WowTV is the "new Moxi" TeeJay, what does that mean? Is it the same company with the same product only re-branded? I did see your comment a few days ago in the dedicated MOXI thread which stated that you couldn't understand why anyone would get rid of "a working MOXI". I took that to mean 1) you had MOXI, and 2) you liked it, a lot. But now you're talking about WowTV. confused.gif

First, what I was hoping for is someone being able to comment on the respective picture quality between those two providers. For example, it seems to be a generally accepted premise that DISH has inferior PQ to DTV.
Second, the availability of all commonly available HD channels (exclusive of DTV's Channel 1, of course).
Third, the functionality of the respective hardware. Are there any advantages to one over the other?
I figure cost-wise, it will probably be a wash over time. Both companies will undoubtedly offer price concessions to a new customer. And cable companies can typically offer bundling discounts including broadband internet and telephone service.

The cable company (Comporium) which offers MOXI will wire up the house with their coaxial cable - that's a given because I need cable broadband internet. But if I intend to use DTV, now or at some future point, I figure I'm going to have to run dedicated wiring for that platform with an outside outlet of some sort. I need to know that now as the electricians are starting their work wiring the house up tomorrow.

I have tried to research MOXI by reviewing the dedicated thread here, but it's over 200 pages long and, as is the case with most dedicated threads, the vast majority of posts deal with various isolated personal or technical issues one person or another is having. Other people with that same personal issue then respond and pages & pages go by with them hashing it out. I haven't been able to get a "general feel" for the platform from the dedicated thread. AVS can be very difficult to use as a research platform that way. That's why I started this thread.

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of spending weeks reading every single post in the MOXI thread and the DTV thread start to finish. I was hoping to find other people who had faced the same choice I have and who did have time to do the full measure of research, or someone who had had both platforms and thus a good feel for each, or failing all that, someone who's very versed on one or the other so that I can make a sound judgement.

mdavej 02-09-2014 09:32 AM

I'm kind of in the same market as you (upstate SC), and have had DirecTV, Dish and cable in the recent past. I'm in Charter territory but have never heard of Comporium. If they are affiliated with Charter, then they will have the best PQ of the lot and the most HD channels by far, especially since Charter is now all digital in our area and 180+ HD channels (30 more than DirecTV or Dish). DirecTV is a close second in terms of HD. Their SD however, is the worst I've ever seen. so I never watched it when I had them. Dish would be third, since they are only HD lite (1440x1080 instead of full 1920x1080 for 1080i). If Comporium has nothing to do with Charter, then I have no idea what to tell you. I kind of think they aren't associated since Charter no longer offers Moxi.

In terms of equipment, Moxi is nice, but when I last saw it a few years ago, it was quite a bit more buggy than DirecTV. Maybe it has improved recently. The DirecTV Genie system is excellent. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Personally, I have Charter now due to the HD lineup and lower cost thanks to being able to use my own DVR (Ceton cable card tuner in Windows Media Center) and some internet service bundle discounts. I also had Dish for a few years and was very please with the Hopper and the HD PQ. It was a tad softer than DirecTV due to the resolution difference but not really that noticeable to me. They were also cheaper than DirecTV at the time. I don't think they're the cheapest anymore though. DirecTV has the best new customer discounts I've seen, excellent equipment and excellent PQ. I don't think you can go wrong with DirecTV.

VisionOn 02-09-2014 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Well, I only have the choice of 2 providers joe. Both would meet my basic needs, I'm sure. One, my cable company which offers MOXI, and two, DirecTV. I have eliminated DISH because of various problems I see with their platform. When you say WowTV is the "new Moxi" TeeJay, what does that mean? Is it the same company with the same product only re-branded?

Moxi as a brand does not really exist now. Arris bought Moxi from Digeo for the technology and shortly after ceased retail production and use of the Moxi name. Arris took the technology and software and use that for their own MSO system which is used by various independents in North America and rebranded with their own marketing. The UI and features are mostly the same regardless of the brand name and all still use the basic Moxi UI acquired from Digeo.

No point reading the Moxi thread since that discusses a box and feature set that has been superseded and is totally different hardware to the Arris system.That's why I said look in local cable threads and Google Arris Gateway. The only feedback you will be able to get is from those on the Arris deployed systems and they all call their version something different.

As mentioned there is WOW, Bend Broadband, Buckeye http://www.buckeyecablesystem.com/gateway/index.html Shaw http://www.shaw.ca/gateway/ and now Comporium. Add me to the list of people who have never heard of them either!

Find threads serving those operators and you'll get more feedback.

TeeJay1952 02-10-2014 07:03 AM

I have Comcast. I use Moxie as my gateway. No cable box, the Moxie is the cable box.
Wow is a competitor to Comcast. I have read their ads. I do not subscribe to them.
Vision On answered your box questions.

Beerstalker 02-10-2014 10:08 AM

Tell the electricians to use solid copper core coax cable and run all of it from your TV locations directly to a central location in the home where you can put a wiring closet, or leave it exposed in an area like a garage or utility room. Do not allow them to use splitters inside walls, etc, each run must go directly back to the central location. Do not allow them to use copper clad steel, as the cost isn't that much different and it can cause issues with DirecTV systems.

Personally I like to run 2 coax and 2 Cat 6 ethernet cables to each TV location, but that is up to you.

If you are going to have an attic that you can move around in then also have the electrician run 6 solid copper core coax cables from the same central location to the attic, and leave enough extra up there so they installer can reach any location on the roof if you decide to get satellite. Most DirecTV installs will only need 1 or 4 of those coax, but having the extra 2 is nice in case you decide to add an OTA antenna, or for internet service, have a spare, etc.

Doing this will get you set up for any TV service provider you end up choosing, and make the install for those techs a lot easier.

As far as choosing a provider I can't give you much help there. Picture quality is a pretty subjective area, but DirecTV is usually among the top as far as their HD channels go (there SD channels are a bit downscaled and overcompressed). I believe the only major provider who routinely beats them for picture quality is Verizon Fios. Some cable TV systems have been said to be around the ame or slightly better, but that is highly dependent on the company and the location since each one is differrent. I know here in the Peoria area my Comcast HD picture quality was horrible compared to DirecTV, but I have heard of people in other areas that say their Comcast HD is a little better. That said I have never heard anyone say any service cable nor FIOS is vastly superior to DirecTV.

I am extremely happy with DirecTV and I do recommend them to people in my area. But that is because I know about the quality of the cable systems here and they all tend to suck.

You need to find someone in your area with the Comporium service that you are looking at in order to get an idea of its quality, like the others have said. Try looking around in this section to see if there is a thread for your area and if people have posted about Comporium service.
http://www.avsforum.com/f/45/local-hdtv-info-and-reception

archiguy 02-11-2014 07:46 AM

Beer, thanks for that terrific post. If I may ask, why would you double up on coax and Cat 6 in your bedrooms? For that matter, why run cable for ethernet at all? The world is fast moving to wireless, which is how my home broadband network will work. I no longer see any reason for running Cat 6 (Cat 5 would suffice anyways), but maybe I'm missing something?

Beerstalker 02-11-2014 09:32 AM

I like to have dual coax so I can have satellite/cable and OTA both available if I want. Diplexing isn't the best idea anymore.

As good as wireless is getting, wired is still better. You also have the option of using those lines for other things if needed like telephone/HDMI/etc.

The cost of doing this before the walls are finished is nothing compared to what you are spending on the rest of the house (especially if you do it yourself), and it can save you a lot of time/money in the long run and give you a lot more options.

mdavej 02-11-2014 10:17 AM

Wifi can't handle uncompressed full bitrate video. If you ever run WMC extenders you'll learn this very quickly. With video taking even more bandwidth in the future (4k), wires are a must. Highly compressed Netflix is no problem over wifi, but higher quality video is.

archiguy 02-12-2014 07:40 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. But I keep wondering about CAT5? If I run two solid copper coaxial lines to every room, wouldn't that be sufficient to "future-proof" me? I ask because, [Bones]"Dammit Jim, I'm an architect, not an electrical engineer!"[/Bones] tongue.gifwink.gif

mdavej 02-12-2014 08:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Thanks for the replies guys. But I keep wondering about CAT5? If I run two solid copper coaxial lines to every room, wouldn't that be sufficient to "future-proof" me? I ask because, [Bones]"Dammit Jim, I'm an architect, not an electrical engineer!"[/Bones] tongue.gifwink.gif
I could have sworn I just answered this question in my previous post. Sure, in the cable/satellite TV world, coax is all you need. But for everything else that uses a lot of bandwidth (video file streaming, HDMI, gaming, media center) you need to be wired. If you never, ever foresee doing any of that, then stick with coax. Personally I never anticipated needing ethernet either, but here I am now with ethernet over coax in every room.

Personally, I'll never have any use for dual coax as I can pipe OTA over ethernet if I wanted. Besides the coax coming into my house, all my video and data distribution goes over a wired network, preferably cat5, but currently coax by necessity (MoCA). If I could go back in time 20 years when my house was built and put in cat5 or cat6, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

You just have to get out your crystal ball and predict as best you can. Personally, I think the future is more likely going to be ethernet than coax. And wires are still far better than wifi and probably will be for many more years. I don't see wifi getting anywhere near 1GB wired speeds anytime soon.

archiguy 02-12-2014 08:46 AM

I guess my problem is I don't understand the difference between coax and CAT 5 or 6. To me, they're all copper wire. I'm guessing coax has limitations CAT 5 or 6 doesn't? And what's the difference between those two? Forgive my ignorance, but I've never faced this situation before (see my feeble attempt at Star Trek humor in the previous post) and I have to bring myself up to speed quickly.

The cable company, Comporium, has offered to run coax for me. So has DirecTV. (I still don't know which way I'm going to go with regards to television.) But my electrician will charge me to run CAT 5 or 6 in addition to that. I'm trying to get the house wired for as little as possible, but future-proof myself at the same time.

VisionOn 02-12-2014 09:47 AM

I wouldn't hesitate to run CAT6. It's not expensive now and is more capable than CAT5.

Even if you plan on a wireless system having access points around the house can only be a benefit. You can add Wifi bridges when you need to and boost your coverage in addition to hard wiring specific devices.

mdavej 02-12-2014 11:04 AM

Cable and satellite signals use coax. Computers use ethernet cables (cat5, cat6, etc.). Many entertainment devices now and in the future are essentially computers, hence have no coax capabilities. Look on the back of your device, like you blu-ray player or Xbox. You see an ethernet jack, but nothing for coax. That's why in today's environment and in the near future you need both. Since you only have satellite or cable now, you likely may not use ethernet for years, maybe never. But since you want to future-proof, then you should run the cables. But if your house has the sheetrock up already, then you may as well wait until you actually need it, as it will be just as difficult to do years from now as it is today.

I would be very skeptical of the cable or satellite company offering to run coax for free. They will get it to all your TVs, but they will go along outside walls, baseboards and through floors. They are not going to fish anything through walls/ceilings unless you pay them extra.

archiguy 02-12-2014 11:17 AM

No drywall yet, so they can run whatever they want. As I mentioned above, the electrician hasn't started his work yet. That comes first - would have started this week had the polar vortex not descended on us once again. As I look out my window, I see 6 inches of snow falling, and it's not close to being finished. Welcome to the deep south in the age of rapid climate change!

Then come central vac and other in-wall appliances. Then comes insulation. Finally, drywall and wall tile in the bathrooms. Then cabinets. Then flooring. Finally, garage doors. During that period, outside work will be finished, like the second floor deck surfaces, driveway pour, and pushing up the final grades around the building.

And that, gentlemen, is the sequence of construction that remains before I can finally move into my new house, under construction now for over a year. In case anyone's interested, here's what it looks like - a study in curves.






mdavej 02-12-2014 11:48 AM

Very cool design. You definitely need to run cat6 throughout in a new house, even if you have no plan to use it right away. It's super easy to pull them yourself if you don't want to pay the electrician to do it. Terminations are a bitch though. Very time consuming.

Beerstalker 02-13-2014 08:38 AM

Like mdavej said, I would not count on the cable company or DirecTV to run the coax for you. They are just talking about running cable like they do for most people which means wrap it around the outside of the house, and drill in through an exterior wall. They are not going to run it inside your walls, drilling holes through all the studs, or up through the floors, and put in low voltage wall boxes etc. They are also only going to want to do one outlet in each room. If you want multiple outlets so you have options on furniture placement they are not going to help you out with that.

You are spending a lot of money building a very nice new house from the looks of your pictures. Don't cheap out now and have it looking shabby with coax clipped to the exterior walls of the house, sticking out of holes in the drywall and run along the baseboard to wherever your TV is located.

If you need to save money see if your electrician will let you run the low voltage wiring yourself. Maybe you can buy all the wire and run it all yourself and he puts in the wall boxes and terminates everything for you if you don't think you can do them?

To me if you need to save money on stuff right now do it with the flooring. Put in cheap carpet or laminate floors instead of wood now and save the money there. That can easily be upgraded a couple years down the road. Stuff like wiring, lighting, plumbing etc. is much more difficult and expensive to try to change later on.


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